Prop 8 in California

[Truthspeaker]

Just to add other nations (Canada for example) have legalized same sex marraige and they really haven't had degeneracy and all the other doom and gloom prophresized.



Wait a while, these things take time. the scriptures use words like ripe for destruction or past feeling. God doesn't want to destroy a civilization if he knows there is a chance to salvage it. he loves his children and doesn't look for opportunities to destroy them for fun. he tries to help them for a long time before they reject him fully.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Although we're talking about people who will never be part of a traditional family or people who choose not to. If the only power or importance of traditional family lies in being the majority or being the only acceptable course of action than it probably never had much power to begin with.[/QUOTE]

If i weren't religious I would agree with you 100%

 

[Truthspeaker]

Well I still probably wouldn't but who knows. I might have accepted it when people told me they are born that way, but with scepticism.

 

[Father Time]

Just to add other nations (Canada for example) have legalized same sex marraige and they really haven't had degeneracy and all the other doom and gloom prophresized.



Wait a while, these things take time. the scriptures use words like ripe for destruction or past feeling. God doesn't want to destroy a civilization if he knows there is a chance to salvage it. he loves his children and doesn't look for opportunities to destroy them for fun. he tries to help them for a long time before they reject him fully.

Just curious where in the Bible does it say that God will destroy nations that allow that kind of stuff?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just curious where in the Bible does it say that God will destroy nations that allow that kind of stuff?

Remind us what God did to Sodom and Gamora?

 

[Truthspeaker]

I don't have my Bible on me but the most classic case is the twin cities of Sodom and Gamorrah, which were destroyed for several reasons, Homosexuality being one of them. Off the top of my head, the scripture from Leviticus chapter 18:22 sticks out pretty boldly in the which God is telling Moses of a number of perversions the Israelites were to avoid, most notably, homosexuality. "Thou shall not lie down with mankind, as with womankind, it is an abomination."

 

[Truthspeaker]

I am going to sleep. Can't keep up with you creatures of the night. I will respond to anything tomorrow.

 

[sky dancer]

I find it amazing that so many people care more about the issue of Gay Marriage and they aren't even gay. They just don't want gays to get married.

Something like $73 million was spent on this prop in ads,etc. It boggles the mind.

Imagine how much that could go towards poverty.

Mormons and Catholics funded Prop 8 from out of state.

 

[eots]

Just to add other nations (Canada for example) have legalized same sex marraige and they really haven't had degeneracy and all the other doom and gloom prophresized.

Although we're talking about people who will never be part of a traditional family or people who choose not to. If the only power or importance of traditional family lies in being the majority or being the only acceptable course of action than it probably never had much power to begin with.

Gays want children taught "queer issues"

By Frank Stirk

A PENDING human rights complaint aimed at forcing British Columbia's public school curriculum to include compulsory lessons on "queer issues" could make some students balk at discussing those issues, said Christian educator Steve Bailey.

"I've talked with students recently who have had speakers on gay-lesbian-transgender issues, and these 16-year-old boys just don't see any purpose being exposed to that," said Bailey, a former high school English teacher and vice-principal in Burnaby.

"That's typical. 'We're not interested in having people come to speak particularly on those issues,' they say. 'What's that got to do with us?' They don't see the relevance when they're hit over the head with it."

Murray and Peter Corren, a married same-sex couple, allege in a complaint lodged with the B.C. human rights tribunal that the absence of pro-homosexual instruction is a denial of equal treatment on the part of the provincial education ministry.

"Basically, there is systemic discrimination through omission and suppression of queer issues in the whole of the curriculum," Murray Corren, an elementary school teacher in Port Coquitlam, told the Vancouver Sun.

While conceding there is nothing in the curriculum that is anti-homosexual, he claimed that the curriculum's failure to highlight prominent gays in history, for example, "has the effect of enforcing . . . the assumption that all people are or should be heterosexual."

Gays want children taught "queer issues"

 

[eots]

Not at the expense of other's liberty. If you want to hype your values of family, fine. But to try to use government to make it the only option is deplorable in my opinion.

Not everyone shares your values and if you want to make sure your kids have the same values there's other ways that don't involve legislating morality.

Most people have not been closely following the implications of the promotion of the homosexual agenda in other Western countries, especially Canada and Sweden, or even in selected areas of the United States. Here are some results that would follow from granting homosexual marriage or its legal equivalent and making "sexual orientation" a specially protected civil rights category for "hate speech" and "non-discrimination" laws.

(1) Go to jail for "hate speech." If a "Human Rights Commission" finds that you have made public statements that "incites hatred" against homosexual persons, you may go to prison. Ultimately, even ministers of the gospel will not be exempt.

This past June in Sweden a Pentecostal minister, Ake Green, was sentenced to a month in prison for referring to homosexual practice in a sermon as a "horrible cancerous tumor in the body of society." The public prosecutor commented: "Collecting Bible [verses] on this topic as he does makes this hate speech." The Swedish parliament has already given initial approval to a constitutional amendment that would prohibit any speech that "implies unfavorable treatment" to homosexual persons, with a prison sentence of up to two years.
The Threat of the Homosexual Agenda

 

[sky dancer]

Gays want tolerance taught in the schools and a reduction in bias crime.
Tolerance.org

 

[Sunni Man]

Mormons and Catholics funded Prop 8 from out of state.

Are you saying that no Mormons and Catholics in California gave to their cause??

 

[sky dancer]

Are you saying that no Mormons and Catholics in California gave to their cause??

No. I'm saying that a ton of money flooded in from out of state to fund this measure.

 

[eots]

Gays want tolerance taught in the schools and a reduction in bias crime.
Tolerance.org

)Some statistics about the Homosexual lifestyle:


* One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3)
* One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime
* Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7)
* Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior" (16)
* Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27)
* Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population
* Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27)
* 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13)
* 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11)
* Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex
* 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20)
* Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10)
* Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10)
* 50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10)
* Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person" (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality
* It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10)
* Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population
* Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8)
* 37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8)
* 41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8)
* Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries (8)
* The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8)
* The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8)
* Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8)
* 21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8)
* 50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18)
* About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12).


Homosexuals prey on children.


* 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7)
* There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States
* Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19)
* 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9)

The Statistics on Homosexuality and its Effects

 

[Sunni Man]

Great factual post Eots!!!

 

[Father Time]

Ok one couple complaining about the lack of homosexual stuff in Canada hardly qualifies as a trend. (Although if you want to talk agendas being taught in schools there's the abstinence only education which according to a federal study doesn't even work). And even if, we don't have to have both, we can just have the marriage

As well as that we can have gay marraige and not idiotic hate crime laws (and if all you're against is hate crime laws why not fight those specifically when they come around). If what happened in Sweden happened here the conviction would be overturned in a heratbeat.

Also for that big list of 'facts', do you have a source that isn't heavily biased and doesn't have a clear as day right wing slant? Some of the sources they cite are even worse.

 

[eots]

Ok one couple complaining about the lack of homosexual stuff in Canada hardly qualifies as a trend. (Although if you want to talk agendas being taught in schools there's the abstinence only education which according to a federal study doesn't even work). And even if we don't have to have both, we can just have the marriage

As well as that we can have gay marraige and not idiotic hate crime laws (and if all your against is hate crime laws why not fight those specifically when they come around). If what happened in Sweden happened here the conviction would be overturned in a heratbeat.

Also for that big list of 'facts', do you have a source that isn't heavily biased and doesn't have a clear as day right wing slant? Some of the sources they cite are even worse.

REFERENCES


(1) Advocate, 1985
(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry
(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978
(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299
(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987
(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38
(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE
(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA
(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275
(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992
(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254
(12) Lesbian News, January 1994
(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11
(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438
(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy (16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco." Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96
(17) Newsweek, February 1993
(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993
(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37
(20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53
(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We Talk." (22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992
(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322
(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990
(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide Magazine. November, 1987
(26) United States Census Bureau (27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989
(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research Corp
(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.


The Statistics on Homosexuality and its Effects

 

[Father Time]

Oh and ehh Leviticus 11:7 says you shall not eat pork, so assuming you eat the pig how do you rectify the two passages?

I looked up Sodom and Gomorrah and some people stress that it was inhospitality and greediness that caused God to smite the twin cities. America still gives much to charity every year, welfare and stuff like that, so I think we'll be fine (don't worry about the people you think are immoral, God's supposed to deal with them individually).

 

[Father Time]

yes I saw that page, most of those statistics are outdatesd and some of them are from equally biased institutes like the family research institute which seeks to "to restore a world ...where homosexuality is not taught and accepted, but instead is discouraged and rejected at every level"

Having a pre-determined conclusion before you get all the facts is the polar opposite of being nonbiased or scientific.

 

[eots]

Oh and ehh Leviticus 11:7 says you shall not eat pork, so assuming you eat the pig how do you rectify the two passages?

I looked up Sodom and Gomorrah and some people stress that it was inhospitality and greediness that caused God to smite the twin cities. America still gives much to charity every year, welfare and stuff like that, so I think we'll be fine (don't worry about the people you think are immoral, God's supposed to deal with them individually).

homosexuality is called an abomination...and I concern myself with it as a political movement ..the individual is indeed in gods hands