iceberg
Diamond Member
- May 15, 2017
- 36,788
- 14,920
it's entirely relevant. she set it up which i agree on it's own is not illegal.well given i'm not responding to all the insults along the way, i believe i'm doing a pretty good job of *not* being emotional but trying to hit it from an objective standpoint.not really.
the bottom line is when you don't care about 1 side acting up / suspicious you have a hard time getting an agreement when the other side is doing the same thing.
we've come to the point where we defend what we have for no other reason that we're being attacked by the other side for doing what we're all guilty of doing.
we're past legal. we're full on emo-bat-shit-crazy. we defend hillary to the wall for actions that are AT BEST highly suspicious and jump all over trump for a closed door meeting with russians.
when we treat like actions on like terms, we can end the bullshit. til then, here we are full of hate.
Speak for yourself. You may be emotionally reacting to your side being attacked, but I'm not. Hillary Clinton is not on "my side". I'm here to discuss the law.
if you wish to get back to the law - great. lets go.
Fact Check: Hillary Clinton, Those Emails And The Law
The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee — not just a rank-and-file House member — alleged Tuesday that Hillary Clinton likely broke the law with her use of private emails as secretary of state.
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did she hold onto all the e-mail or did it get deleted? saying "oh those 33k mails were on yoga" won't work.
- The Federal Records Act requires agencies hold onto official communications, including all work-related emails, and government employees cannot destroy or remove relevant records.
- FOIA is designed to "improve public access to agency records and information."
- The NARA regulations dictate how records should be created and maintained. They stress that materials must be maintained "by the agency," that they should be "readily found" and that the records must "make possible a proper scrutiny by the Congress."
- Section 1924 of Title 18 has to do with deletion and retention of classified documents. "Knowingly" removing or housing classified information at an "unauthorized location" is subject to a fine or a year in prison.
were her e-mails allowed public access as required by law?
were they maintained or was "bleach bit" used to destroy potential evidence?
and i do believe she's guilty on the 4th bullet also.
When you're discussing what "should" be, rather than what is - that's about emotion.
Ok, let's talk law. You've provided one statute - that's a start. Let's take a look at it:
Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
Do you see the words I've highlighted? Those terms are the required mens rea elements for that crime.
you setup that server - you take on the responsibilities to make sure those laws are upheld and met.
were they? were they even a consideration to her? when you narrow this all down to "knowingly" and "intent" you know you don't have much to stand on "legally".
You keep coming back to the server - but it's entirely irrelevant to what we're talking about.
I'm literally highlighting the words in the law - and you're trying to argue that I don't have much to stand on, legally?
however, the way she handled the information it is not legal.
at this point you're totally dismissing the point she bypassed gov servers and processes so you can stand on "intent" as a sole defense.
she set up the server. she is responsible for it. i will not put that fact away because you don't find it convenient to your argument.