Questions on Decriminalization/Legalization movement

[kaz]

You've got it almost right, so let's trim the rough edge.

Marijuana is "mentally addictive" -- but only where those affected by the addictive personality are concerned. These are individuals who are inclined to addiction and will throughout their tormented lives become addicted to everything from chocolate to alcohol, sex, and/or opiates. And somewhere along the line they will pick up on marijuana.

The infamous "gateway drug" notion is attributed to this category because it is assumed their addictive progress began with marijuana when in fact it could have started with Hershey bars, cigarettes, beer, or any number of things. I knew someone who once drove fifteen miles to an all-night convenience store at 3AM to buy Coca Cola. She also was "addicted" to marijuana and cocaine. I will assume that by now, presuming she's still alive, she has progressed to heroin and amphetamines.

Fortunately the addictive personality is uncommon. So to think of marijuana as being mentally addictive in the general sense is a mistake.

Good point, Mike. I like you don't really buy the gateway drug argument, and for that reason. BTW, I smoked pot in High School and for a couple years in college. It was the seventies, pot was everywhere. I also do believe what they say and that it's a lot more potent now. I never did any other drugs and had no interest in doing so. However, I do think my starting to grow up and quitting smoking pot are not unrelated.

Does that same argument apply to alcohol for you, or anyone else, as well?

Is drinking a childish thing that tapers off and ultimately stops once one "grows up?" Should it be?

I don't expect you to go back and read the whole discussion, but I said I don't see a difference between a social pot smoker and a social drinker. On the other hand, either is bad when they are a crutch.

 

[kaz]

When did you stop beating your wife?

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You're evading my question also, thanatos. Do you seriously not grasp the difference between someone harming themselves and someone harming someone else? There no beating your wife component in that, there's only an are you seriously that clueless component to that.

Resume evading.

It is a non question because junkies don't just hurt themselves


tapatalk post

If that's true, you realize what you just said is that you don't know the difference between someone who harms other people and someone who harms no one. Didn't think that through, did you?

So, since you want to play word games, you argued that someone taking drugs, putting them in their own body, is the same as someone who kills someone. You're FOS, aren't you?

 

[MarcATL]

Good point, Mike. I like you don't really buy the gateway drug argument, and for that reason. BTW, I smoked pot in High School and for a couple years in college. It was the seventies, pot was everywhere. I also do believe what they say and that it's a lot more potent now. I never did any other drugs and had no interest in doing so. However, I do think my starting to grow up and quitting smoking pot are not unrelated.

Does that same argument apply to alcohol for you, or anyone else, as well?

Is drinking a childish thing that tapers off and ultimately stops once one "grows up?" Should it be?

I don't expect you to go back and read the whole discussion, but I said I don't see a difference between a social pot smoker and a social drinker. On the other hand, either is bad when they are a crutch.

Actually, I spent two days reading through the thread.

Now that you mention it, I do believe you posted something to that effect.

 

[Katzndogz]

1972!

You are a drug addict. Everything you do and say is going to protect your drug. Alcoholics do the same thing. That's why addicts can't be rehabilitated. Their best end comes like Philip Hoffman and Whitney Houston.

Are you retarded?

Marijuana was outlawed in 1937. Why? "Because Marihuana causes incurable insanity". 1937 to 1972. That's 35 years. That's 35 years of people smoking illegal marijuana and NOT developing psychosis. The Shafer Commission reviewed all of the data available and came to the conclusion that the majority of claims against marijuana were false.

From 1972 to today, millions of Americans have been smoking marijuana and NOT developing psychosis. So from 1937 to 2014, the anti-drug dumbfucks have been saying that marijuana has to be illegal because it causes psychosis and yet for the past 77 years, there hasn't been any widespread surge in the number of pot smokers developing schizophrenia or any other mental problems.

Since 1972


Drugs: Cannabis and psychosis
Schizophrenia.com - Schizophrenia and Marijuana and Psychosis or Psychotic
The Cannabis-Psychosis Link | Psychiatric Times
Marijuana Use Linked to Risk of Psychotic Symptoms
Long-time cannabis use associated with psychosis -- ScienceDaily
Marijuana, Cannabis and Schizophrenia - Schizophrenia.com
Marijuana Induced Psychosis
Cannabis and psychotic illness
Marijuana Use Linked To Psychotic Symptoms In Teenagers - Medical News Today
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/764024

Just a few.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Marijuana can fight cancer. Fighting cancer is good.
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

Digitalis fights heart attacks go guzzle up some quinine.

Digitalis toxicity is a main danger of using the stuff......

 

[Harry Dresden]

1972!

You are a drug addict. Everything you do and say is going to protect your drug. Alcoholics do the same thing. That's why addicts can't be rehabilitated. Their best end comes like Philip Hoffman and Whitney Houston.

you are an addict to Katz....an addict of stupidity....

 

[KevinWestern]

Well, if that's your stance then why not make all street drugs legal? We would have a country full of degenerates and drug zombies in the name of more freedom.

One step at a time. Right now I'm focusing on a drug that's non-toxic, non-physically dependent, gives you a mild high, and has never (in the history of mankind) been known to kill someone from an overdose.

Meth, heroin, crack are examples of extremely lethal drugs, comprised of a hodgepodge of toxic substances, that are extremely degenerative to the human body, exert a powerful physical addiction, and produce highs that significantly alter your state of thinking. Let's not change the subject here. I have my own views on the legalization of those drugs but that's a different topic.

 

[MikeK]

Fuck you with your bullshit story about how legalizing pot won WWII! You're an absolute disgrace, you dirty fucking pothead!

Issuing personal insults in this way makes it clear your problem is a lack of education in the general sense but more specifically on the subject of marijuana. I've posted the following link in an earlier message but I'm posting it again here and directing it to your attention.

The Book « JackHerer.com

This is a very educational book -- and you can read it FREE just by clicking on that link. The reason for such generosity is the writer is more interested in eliminating the brainwash imposed on a segment of the U.S. population by the Reefer Madness establishment than in selling books. So do yourself a favor, accept his generosity and learn how wrong you are about a very important aspect of contemporary American politics -- the wholly counterproductive and socially damaging persecution of marijuana.

The choice is yours.

 

[KevinWestern]

‘Beneficial’ is a rather vague term in this context. I only think that the drug can be used in a manner that does not interfere with you or your activities. It is actually surprising the number of fully functioning people that you would have zero idea they partake actually do so on a daily basis. I don’t see it as any more beneficial than any other activity that calms you down or helps you have a good time though. Basically, it is not beneficial in and of itself my mind.

It is simply another activity that you may or may not engage in, nothing more or less. Calming you down or reliving stresses are beneficial and the drug might help you do so or it might not. So can a million other things.

On the side - as a hobby - I produce quite a bit of music, and do quite a bit of drawing. I can say first-hand that it serves as an invaluable tool to get your mind into the right place for creating. I'm lucky in that I've been experiencing a moderate amount of success around some of my work (music), and can say that I probably wouldn't have been able to do it without the aid of this tool.

Generally speaking, the only time I'll partake is when I'm "creating"/"writing"/"drawing", etc. And I will say that without a doubt I'm no anomaly; a great deal of artists will tell you the exact same thing.

What would you say to a famous artist - for example - who is saying the same thing that I'm telling you when he says that it's been a "benefit" in his life? Would you doubt him?

 

[Harry Dresden]

‘Beneficial’ is a rather vague term in this context. I only think that the drug can be used in a manner that does not interfere with you or your activities. It is actually surprising the number of fully functioning people that you would have zero idea they partake actually do so on a daily basis. I don’t see it as any more beneficial than any other activity that calms you down or helps you have a good time though. Basically, it is not beneficial in and of itself my mind.

It is simply another activity that you may or may not engage in, nothing more or less. Calming you down or reliving stresses are beneficial and the drug might help you do so or it might not. So can a million other things.

On the side - as a hobby - I produce quite a bit of music, and do quite a bit of drawing. I can say first-hand that it serves as an invaluable tool to get your mind into the right place for creating. I'm lucky in that I've been experiencing a moderate amount of success around some of my work (music), and can say that I probably wouldn't have been able to do it without the aid of this tool.

Generally speaking, the only time I'll partake is when I'm "creating"/"writing"/"drawing", etc. And I will say that without a doubt I'm no anomaly; a great deal of artists will tell you the exact same thing.

What would you say to a famous artist - for example - who is saying the same thing that I'm telling you when he says that it's been a "benefit" in his life? Would you doubt him?

quiet Kevin.....you want Katz and Thandos to start throwing away all their music?....

 

[thanatos144]

Wanting pot legal is one thing but pushing that through based on lies or ignoring the obvious is another.

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[Rocko]

1972!

You are a drug addict. Everything you do and say is going to protect your drug. Alcoholics do the same thing. That's why addicts can't be rehabilitated. Their best end comes like Philip Hoffman and Whitney Houston.

Are you retarded?

Marijuana was outlawed in 1937. Why? "Because Marihuana causes incurable insanity". 1937 to 1972. That's 35 years. That's 35 years of people smoking illegal marijuana and NOT developing psychosis. The Shafer Commission reviewed all of the data available and came to the conclusion that the majority of claims against marijuana were false.

From 1972 to today, millions of Americans have been smoking marijuana and NOT developing psychosis. So from 1937 to 2014, the anti-drug dumbfucks have been saying that marijuana has to be illegal because it causes psychosis and yet for the past 77 years, there hasn't been any widespread surge in the number of pot smokers developing schizophrenia or any other mental problems.

Since 1972


Drugs: Cannabis and psychosis
Schizophrenia.com - Schizophrenia and Marijuana and Psychosis or Psychotic
The Cannabis-Psychosis Link | Psychiatric Times
Marijuana Use Linked to Risk of Psychotic Symptoms
Long-time cannabis use associated with psychosis -- ScienceDaily
Marijuana, Cannabis and Schizophrenia - Schizophrenia.com
Marijuana Induced Psychosis
Cannabis and psychotic illness
Marijuana Use Linked To Psychotic Symptoms In Teenagers - Medical News Today
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/764024

Just a few.

[MENTION=20450]MarcATL[/MENTION] thx Katz

 

[Harry Dresden]

Wanting pot legal is one thing but pushing that through based on lies or ignoring the obvious is another.

tapatalk post

suppressing it based on lies is different though right?.....

 

[Rocko]

Fuck you with your bullshit story about how legalizing pot won WWII! You're an absolute disgrace, you dirty fucking pothead!

Yeah, American history is MY bullshit story. Why do you not want to learn about your own country? America legalized "Marihuana" and society didn't collapse. The exact opposite happened. We saved the world.

those dont really say much about what your saying do they?.....

It's the most absurd claim in the history of this board. I challenge anyone to say something more ludicrous. I understand not everyone who believes in legalization is an addict. Many don't smoke weed and if they do, they may use it casually. Many people think marijuana is begin. My opinion is the are wrong. I can understand their POV is about liberty. Totally get it, but I'm not on their side, which is not to say I'm against liberty, I just don't see it that way. It's the addicts, however, that say most outrageous, ridicules and offensive things. Things like legalizing pot was what won WWII, pot cures cancer, pot oil is answer to our energy woes, etc.. They're addicts. Katz is correct - being an addict is a life long struggle, there are no happy endings. Addicts say and do whatever they must do defend their addiction. It's not about liberty for them, they just want to make it easier to feed their addiction.

 

[Rocko]

Fuck you with your bullshit story about how legalizing pot won WWII! You're an absolute disgrace, you dirty fucking pothead!

Issuing personal insults in this way makes it clear your problem is a lack of education in the general sense but more specifically on the subject of marijuana. I've posted the following link in an earlier message but I'm posting it again here and directing it to your attention.

The Book « JackHerer.com

This is a very educational book -- and you can read it FREE just by clicking on that link. The reason for such generosity is the writer is more interested in eliminating the brainwash imposed on a segment of the U.S. population by the Reefer Madness establishment than in selling books. So do yourself a favor, accept his generosity and learn how wrong you are about a very important aspect of contemporary American politics -- the wholly counterproductive and socially damaging persecution of marijuana.

The choice is yours.

Your lying to everyone and probably yourself. Just admit it, you have so much invested in this because you're a drug addict and you want to be easier for you to feed your addiction. Admitting it is the first step. You'll always be an addict no matter what, if you try to fight your addiction maybe you won't be so selfish as not care if a whole new generation of people gets inflicted with the same disease you have just so it can be easier for you to get your fix.

 

[Pogo]

Yeah, American history is MY bullshit story. Why do you not want to learn about your own country? America legalized "Marihuana" and society didn't collapse. The exact opposite happened. We saved the world.

those dont really say much about what your saying do they?.....

It's the most absurd claim in the history of this board. I challenge anyone to say something more ludicrous. I understand not everyone who believes in legalization is an addict. Many don't smoke weed and if they do, they may use it casually. Many people think marijuana is begin. My opinion is the are wrong. I can understand their POV is about liberty. Totally get it, but I'm not on their side, which is not to say I'm against liberty, I just don't see it that way. It's the addicts, however, that say most outrageous, ridicules and offensive things. Things like legalizing pot was what won WWII, pot cures cancer, pot oil is answer to our energy woes, etc.. They're addicts. Katz is correct - being an addict is a life long struggle, there are no happy endings. Addicts say and do whatever they must do defend their addiction. It's not about liberty for them, they just want to make it easier to feed their addiction.

Uh.... dood.....

YOU'RE the one who suggested "hemp won WWII". Wanna see it again? This is the first time the assertion appears:

What happened in America the last time Marijuana was legalized?

Fuck you with your bullshit story about how legalizing pot won WWII! You're an absolute disgrace, you dirty fucking pothead!

Does that sound rational to you? Or psychotic?

And once again, cannabis is not now, and has never been, addictive, so "addicts" is irrelevant. Furthermore, your idol Katz has publicly stated here that pot smokers should be shot in the face (she later allowed that it wouldn't have to be the face) and right in this thread that they should have "an accident in the back of a patrol car".

So you tell me who's fucking hallucinating here.

 

[Rocko]

Wanting pot legal is one thing but pushing that through based on lies or ignoring the obvious is another.

tapatalk post

suppressing it based on lies is different though right?.....

No one needs to lie. The evidence that pot is harmful to society, in a way where it should be banned is overwhelming.

 

[Rocko]

those dont really say much about what your saying do they?.....

It's the most absurd claim in the history of this board. I challenge anyone to say something more ludicrous. I understand not everyone who believes in legalization is an addict. Many don't smoke weed and if they do, they may use it casually. Many people think marijuana is begin. My opinion is the are wrong. I can understand their POV is about liberty. Totally get it, but I'm not on their side, which is not to say I'm against liberty, I just don't see it that way. It's the addicts, however, that say most outrageous, ridicules and offensive things. Things like legalizing pot was what won WWII, pot cures cancer, pot oil is answer to our energy woes, etc.. They're addicts. Katz is correct - being an addict is a life long struggle, there are no happy endings. Addicts say and do whatever they must do defend their addiction. It's not about liberty for them, they just want to make it easier to feed their addiction.

Uh.... dood.....

YOU'RE the one who suggested "hemp won WWII". Wanna see it again? This is the first time the assertion appears:

What happened in America the last time Marijuana was legalized?

Fuck you with your bullshit story about how legalizing pot won WWII! You're an absolute disgrace, you dirty fucking pothead!

Does that sound rational to you? Or psychotic?

And once again, cannabis is not now, and has never been, addictive, so "addicts" is irrelevant. Furthermore, your idol Katz has publicly stated here that pot smokers should be shot in the face (she later allowed that it wouldn't have to be the face) and right in this thread that they should have "an accident in the back of a patrol car".

So you tell me who's fucking hallucinating here.

I had this conversation with him before. He claimed legalizing pot won us WWII won numerous times. Get your facts straight, skippy.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Wanting pot legal is one thing but pushing that through based on lies or ignoring the obvious is another.

tapatalk post

suppressing it based on lies is different though right?.....

No one needs to lie. The evidence that pot is harmful to society, in a way where it should be banned is overwhelming.

also a lot of overwhelming evidence that it is made out to be much worse than it is.....and quit being a hypocrite Rock.....Alcohol is much worse and yet you have no problems with that and the damage it has done......is the reason because you do some drinking once in a while?....

 

[ozro]

The FACT is, both alcohol and cannabis are being used by humans.

The Question is ;
Is it right to incarcerate people for using either one as long as they are not engaged in any activity that puts others at risk?

Is it the right thing to do to limit everyone's freedom because it causes a few people problems?

The right questions do not involve what is more dangerous, or what causes more problems.

The question SHOULD be:
Is limiting freedom the right way to handle this problem?