Quid pro quo. The most used tool of ALL GOVERNMENTS and businesses.

[EvMetro]

Since Trump frequently refers to himself in the third person, "us" means he, himself and him.

The problem here is that you are looking for ANY plausible path that makes it sound like Trump said what you want him to have said. You may find several plausible paths, but that doesn't mean that any of them are true. The fact here is that Trump did say "us".

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

If what Trump did was a violation why is the FEC not reprimanding him for it?

These are dark times at the Federal Election Commission, which has now gone two months without enough commissioners to enforce federal campaign finance laws.

That's because U.S. senators and President Donald Trump have failed to strike an agreement to fill any of three vacancies on the six-member commission that needs a quorum of at least four warm bodies to conduct most any high-level business.
Halloween’s over. The Federal Election Commission? Still a zombie.

Any other questions?

Two whole months in an investigation that has gone on for how long now?

Weak sauce

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Well then, it's a good thing he asked the Ukraine president to do "us" a favor and not a personal one

He may have "said" us..but it was clearly a personal favor...

A. to exonerate Russia in the 2016 election hack
B. to help HIS 2020 election chances

That is you're interpretation of it. You are obviously entitled to that opinion but having that opinion does not make it so.

Learn to use a little critical thinking. No matter how you twist words you can not change the words in the transcript.

So how does having Trump use "unusual" channels to hold up military aid for Ukraine and to have Ukraine announce an investigation into the Biden's help the American people? I can see how it helps Trump and Russia but where do Americans "win" in this scenario?

Because if US taxpayer money was used fraudulently in a scheme the aid could be permanently withdrawn or have strings attached to it for oversight.

 

[DBA]

Technically speaking all it is is old fashioned bartering. Something the world has run by since we stopped painting on cave walls. In fact WE ALL ENGAGE IN IT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So that brings us to the obvious question. Is it illegal? Well?

If what Trump did was a violation why is the FEC not reprimanding him for it?

If my employer gives me $500 and says "Give this money to my friends down the block. They're having a rough time and I said I'd help them out", and I called up the neighbours and said I have $500 for you but I want some pictures of my co-worker Joe, on a date with my boss' wife, before I give them to you". Joe is trying to steal my job and I want to take these pictures to my boss and show him what a low life Joe is so Joe won't get my job and my boss will fire him. You get me pictures and I'll give you $500".

Should I be fired for this, even if Joe really is having an affair with my boss' wife?

The problem is, Trump never said you do this or you don't get the money. The Ukranians didn't understand that to be the case by their own admission. You simply CANNOT have a bribery case if the victim of the bribe isn't even aware of their obligation. It is idiotic and nonsensical, but the Democrats have pulled the wool over the sheeps eyes and they lap it up.

You must be one of those informed Democrats who believed Schiffs parody of the event instead of the actual transcript.

 

[Care4all]

Technically speaking all it is is old fashioned bartering. Something the world has run by since we stopped painting on cave walls. In fact WE ALL ENGAGE IN IT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So that brings us to the obvious question. Is it illegal? Well?

If what Trump did was a violation why is the FEC not reprimanding him for it?

There is legal quid pro quo all the time,

And ithere is illegal quid pro quo done by the corrupt, for ill gotten purposes....

 

[DBA]

Exactly

Asking personal favors is not for the country

You are the first lefty to be able to process that Trump asked if the Ukraine president would do "us" a favor, and not "me". You must have actually read the transcript, congrats. I'm one of the millions of people who trump was referring to when he asked if the Ukraine president would do "us" a favor, and I really appreciate what he asked for on my behalf.

Not really

It shows how much an idiot Trump really is
Anyone with any sense would throw some requests in that are in the National Interest. Counter terrorism, NATO related, information on Russia

But Trump made it all about him

I don't understand why you acknowledged in post 36 that Trump asked for a favor for "us", but now you are blabbering nonsense about Trump asking for a personal favor. Do you have a quote of Trump asking for a personal favor?

Things change when you look at more than one word and look at context

Trump said “us” and then listed things that “he” needed. That makes the request a personal favor.

So "we" don't need or want to know what role if any Ukraine played in the 2016 election nor if what Biden did was illegal? Democrats don't want or need to know this because it all points to Democratic corruption. Democrats don't care one bit about corruption. This is all about getting rid of Trump, a president who is doing a great job running the country but doesn't pander to all the social concerns most snowflakes have. The economy be damned...they are more concerned with more important things like pandering to the very small percentage of people who can't figure out if they are a boy or a girl.

 

[rightwinger]

Things change when you look at more than one word and look at context

Trump said “us” and then listed things that “he” needed. That makes the request a personal favor.

Quit trying to manipulate the context! When Trump said he wanted to ask for a favor for "us," it was in the topic sentence of the paragraph. I am confident that you know that a topic sentence is a sentence that summarizes the main idea of a paragraph. It is usually the first sentence in a paragraph. I am also confident that you know that a focus sentence encapsulates or organizes an entire paragraph.

You still don’t understand context do you?

 

[berg80]

Technically speaking all it is is old fashioned bartering. Something the world has run by since we stopped painting on cave walls. In fact WE ALL ENGAGE IN IT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So that brings us to the obvious question. Is it illegal? Well?

If what Trump did was a violation why is the FEC not reprimanding him for it?

Yep. If I don’t have a President telling a nation our gift requires a lot of ass kissing, I want him out of office.

Being in favor of corruption is what makes you a fan of Trumpery.

 

[rightwinger]

Technically speaking all it is is old fashioned bartering. Something the world has run by since we stopped painting on cave walls. In fact WE ALL ENGAGE IN IT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So that brings us to the obvious question. Is it illegal? Well?

If what Trump did was a violation why is the FEC not reprimanding him for it?

If my employer gives me $500 and says "Give this money to my friends down the block. They're having a rough time and I said I'd help them out", and I called up the neighbours and said I have $500 for you but I want some pictures of my co-worker Joe, on a date with my boss' wife, before I give them to you". Joe is trying to steal my job and I want to take these pictures to my boss and show him what a low life Joe is so Joe won't get my job and my boss will fire him. You get me pictures and I'll give you $500".

Should I be fired for this, even if Joe really is having an affair with my boss' wife?

The problem is, Trump never said you do this or you don't get the money. The Ukranians didn't understand that to be the case by their own admission. You simply CANNOT have a bribery case if the victim of the bribe isn't even aware of their obligation. It is idiotic and nonsensical, but the Democrats have pulled the wool over the sheeps eyes and they lap it up.

You must be one of those informed Democrats who believed Schiffs parody of the event instead of the actual transcript.

Trump did not specifically say that, but implied it
He instructed Zelensky to deal with Rudy on the details

 

[Dragonlady]

Exactly

Asking personal favors is not for the country

You are the first lefty to be able to process that Trump asked if the Ukraine president would do "us" a favor, and not "me". You must have actually read the transcript, congrats. I'm one of the millions of people who trump was referring to when he asked if the Ukraine president would do "us" a favor, and I really appreciate what he asked for on my behalf.

Not really

It shows how much an idiot Trump really is
Anyone with any sense would throw some requests in that are in the National Interest. Counter terrorism, NATO related, information on Russia

But Trump made it all about him

I don't understand why you acknowledged in post 36 that Trump asked for a favor for "us", but now you are blabbering nonsense about Trump asking for a personal favor. Do you have a quote of Trump asking for a personal favor?

Things change when you look at more than one word and look at context

Trump said “us” and then listed things that “he” needed. That makes the request a personal favor.

So "we" don't need or want to know what role if any Ukraine played in the 2016 election nor if what Biden did was illegal? Democrats don't want or need to know this because it all points to Democratic corruption. Democrats don't care one bit about corruption. This is all about getting rid of Trump, a president who is doing a great job running the country but doesn't pander to all the social concerns most snowflakes have. The economy be damned...they are more concerned with more important things like pandering to the very small percentage of people who can't figure out if they are a boy or a girl.

We already know these things. There were multiple investigations: Congress, the Senate, the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA. All of these investigations concluded that Russia interfered with the election, and the Ukraine, did not,. The fiction that the Ukraine meddled originated with Russia and is being promoted by Russia.

Publishing an OP ed under your own name, in the open, saying your country prefers one candidate over another isn't "interfering" in the election. That's what the Ukrainians did and Trump is livid that these people would prefer someone else, but they had good reason to fear a Trump presidency, given his adoration of Vladimir Putin. Trump's behaviour in this mess is the realization of all of their fears.

The Russians are posting under a fake name and pretending to be an Americans in the mid-West, and saying Hillary Clinton has Parkinson's disease. That's a disinformation campaign and it's election interference. Amplifying lies via Twitter bots, and millions of dollars in ad buys funnelled through the NRA into their superpac, is interfering in an election, and Russia did all of these things.

We have numerous posters on this board amplifying Russian disinformation every single day. They are all making 1000 or more posts a month. Nothing is done stop them - they're all contributing members and the board needs the money. Many of them have admitted they're Russians and they're still here, still spreading Russian lies.

What is most disturbing is that members of the US Senate, are now knowingly promoting Russian propaganda and lies to the American people, in defence of this President. Republicans have no shame.

 

[captkaos]

Hey stupid . We are talking about quid pro for PERSONAL GAIN through your job. That’s not allowed . You can’t work for the government and take bribes or extort .

You're thinking about daddy biden, who actually used his vp spot to secure his druggie son a nice salary.

I think we need a little more of it ! We gave Iran 150B for nothing. A little "Quid pro Quo" would have gone a long way don't you think.

 

[Dragonlady]

Technically speaking all it is is old fashioned bartering. Something the world has run by since we stopped painting on cave walls. In fact WE ALL ENGAGE IN IT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So that brings us to the obvious question. Is it illegal? Well?

If what Trump did was a violation why is the FEC not reprimanding him for it?

If my employer gives me $500 and says "Give this money to my friends down the block. They're having a rough time and I said I'd help them out", and I called up the neighbours and said I have $500 for you but I want some pictures of my co-worker Joe, on a date with my boss' wife, before I give them to you". Joe is trying to steal my job and I want to take these pictures to my boss and show him what a low life Joe is so Joe won't get my job and my boss will fire him. You get me pictures and I'll give you $500".

Should I be fired for this, even if Joe really is having an affair with my boss' wife?

The problem is, Trump never said you do this or you don't get the money. The Ukranians didn't understand that to be the case by their own admission. You simply CANNOT have a bribery case if the victim of the bribe isn't even aware of their obligation. It is idiotic and nonsensical, but the Democrats have pulled the wool over the sheeps eyes and they lap it up.

You must be one of those informed Democrats who believed Schiffs parody of the event instead of the actual transcript.

Trump did not specifically say that, but implied it
He instructed Zelensky to deal with Rudy on the details

Ray is resting his entire case on Trump saying "No quid pro quo" to Sondland. But where Ray's, and the President's argument that he said "No quid pro quo" breaks down. Right after Trump said "No quid pro quo", Trump said "He just has to go to a microphone and announce the investigations", and he wasn't going to release the aid until Zelensky did it - on CNN. Trump only released the aid two days after news of the whistle blower's report hit the papers.

Actions speak louder than words. Even Trump's words that Zelensky only had to announce the investigations to get the meeting and the aid, is the very definition of quid pro quo. Ray thinks that Trump's denial of quid quo pro has any meaning but in light of his subsequent words and actions, the denial is a joke.

 

[EvMetro]

You still don’t understand context do you?

Context is what lefties manipulate in order to make things fit the lefty narrative. There is no way to get around the FACT that Trump said "us." He did not say "me," no matter how much you try to push this through a lefty filter.

 

[Dragonlady]

You still don’t understand context do you?

Context is what lefties manipulate in order to make things fit the lefty narrative. There is no way to get around the FACT that Trump said "us." He did not say "me," no matter how much you try to push this through a lefty filter.

Again, there is no benefit to the USA in investigating Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories. None. Waste of time and money. But there is a benefit to the President in seeking evidence to overturn the Russian sanctions over their election interference, and his denial that Russia helped him win the election.

It also legitimitizes Russian propaganda, which undermines American law enforcement and institutions, which also benefits Russia.

You're right - the context of why promoting lies and conspiracy theories that are part of a Russian disinformation campaign and that have already been debunked is really important.

 

[Seawytch]

Well then, it's a good thing he asked the Ukraine president to do "us" a favor and not a personal one

He may have "said" us..but it was clearly a personal favor...

A. to exonerate Russia in the 2016 election hack
B. to help HIS 2020 election chances

That is you're interpretation of it. You are obviously entitled to that opinion but having that opinion does not make it so.

Learn to use a little critical thinking. No matter how you twist words you can not change the words in the transcript.

So how does having Trump use "unusual" channels to hold up military aid for Ukraine and to have Ukraine announce an investigation into the Biden's help the American people? I can see how it helps Trump and Russia but where do Americans "win" in this scenario?

Because if US taxpayer money was used fraudulently in a scheme the aid could be permanently withdrawn or have strings attached to it for oversight.

“If” based on zero evidence. “If” there was such a possibility, the United States has official channels for investigating and they don’t include anyone calling themselves the “Three Amigos” and getting oil drilling rights for donors.

 

[BlindBoo]

Influence peddling.

It's a poison pill for foreign policy. If the bipartisan support we give to other countries can be weaponized against one of the two parties who vote on it, why would any party approve of more aid if it's going to be used against them?

Putin Smiles.

 

[Dragonlady]

Well then, it's a good thing he asked the Ukraine president to do "us" a favor and not a personal one

He may have "said" us..but it was clearly a personal favor...

A. to exonerate Russia in the 2016 election hack
B. to help HIS 2020 election chances

That is you're interpretation of it. You are obviously entitled to that opinion but having that opinion does not make it so.

Learn to use a little critical thinking. No matter how you twist words you can not change the words in the transcript.

So how does having Trump use "unusual" channels to hold up military aid for Ukraine and to have Ukraine announce an investigation into the Biden's help the American people? I can see how it helps Trump and Russia but where do Americans "win" in this scenario?

Because if US taxpayer money was used fraudulently in a scheme the aid could be permanently withdrawn or have strings attached to it for oversight.

“If” based on zero evidence. “If” there was such a possibility, the United States has official channels for investigating and they don’t include anyone calling themselves the “Three Amigos” and getting oil drilling rights for donors.

There is no contention by anyone that the aid which Biden provided was used fraudulently, only that Biden fired the prosecutor to stop the Burisma prosecution and the investigation of his son. But there was no prosecution of Burisma to stop. The President had been indicted but the prosecution was not proceeding, and the prosecutor had refused to restart it. Hunter Biden was not under investigation at all, and was only hired after the indictment had been issued. This is why many looked askance at Biden for taking the job. It was a sleazy company under indictment for money laundering. Why would he take the job?

Any investigation of the Biden's will blow up bigtime because Joe wasn't doing it for the reasons Trump is now saying. Those are lies and that will definitely come out at any investigation the Senate tries to run.

 

[impuretrash]

Hey stupid . We are talking about quid pro for PERSONAL GAIN! That’s not allowed .

PERSONAL GAIN is conjecture that has zero supporting evidence.

The only no evidence is that Biden did somthing wrong to benefit his son.

And there’s plenty of evidence that Don held the Ukraine funds in order to have them target his main political rival .

First of all, we shouldn't be funding Ukraine at all. Most Americans couldn't find Ukraine on a map. Not because they're stupid but because it's irrelevant. Secondly, the entire democrat establishment and half of the republicans are Trump "political rivals". Does that mean they should get away with anything and never be held to account?

 

[EvMetro]

Ray is resting his entire case on Trump saying "No quid pro quo" to Sondland. But where Ray's, and the President's argument that he said "No quid pro quo" breaks down. Right after Trump said "No quid pro quo", Trump said "He just has to go to a microphone and announce the investigations", and he wasn't going to release the aid until Zelensky did it - on CNN. Trump only released the aid two days after news of the whistle blower's report hit the papers.

Actions speak louder than words. Even Trump's words that Zelensky only had to announce the investigations to get the meeting and the aid, is the very definition of quid pro quo. Ray thinks that Trump's denial of quid quo pro has any meaning but in light of his subsequent words and actions, the denial is a joke.

Remember that the quid pro quo that lefties have the burden of proving is specifically one that is meant exclusively for Trump's personal benefit. A quid pro quo that is meant for the benefit of the USA is what we SHOULD see, and getting one is why people like me voted for Trump. I like the America first message, and I hope to see plenty of quid pro quos for our country. I don't want my tax dollars donated to other countries with no strings attached, I want to see a quid pro quo for "us".

 

[Dragonlady]

Hey stupid . We are talking about quid pro for PERSONAL GAIN! That’s not allowed .

PERSONAL GAIN is conjecture that has zero supporting evidence.

The only no evidence is that Biden did somthing wrong to benefit his son.

And there’s plenty of evidence that Don held the Ukraine funds in order to have them target his main political rival .

First of all, we shouldn't be funding Ukraine at all. Most Americans couldn't find Ukraine on a map. Not because they're stupid but because it's irrelevant. Secondly, the entire democrat establishment and half of the republicans are Trump "political rivals". Does that mean they should get away with anything and never be held to account?

For 30 years Republicans have been looking for evidence that Democrats are committing crimes, and to this point they have found NOTHING to prosecute. Clinton was investigated for 6 1/2 years by a Republican Special Prosecutor who looked at everything from Clinton's business dealings in Arkansas, to Vince Foster's suicide and all he got was a lie about a blow job. which they impeached him for.

8 years of oversight of the Obama Administration - 6 of them by Republican lead Committees in the House and Senate, and NOTHING. Not one prosecution, and almost no FBI investiations. Republicans are the ones who turned the FBI on the Democrats ordering investigation after investigation and now they're pissed that it's happening to them.

Maybe Republican think that Democrats are just like them so they HAVE to be committing crimes, but what it looks like to me is that liars think everyone else lies too and they're no different. Criminals think every else is just as crooked as they are.

The facts, and the evidence says they're not.