Racial profiling OK? Then so is what the IRS did.

[Quantum Windbag]

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

What would the point be? Remember, you have to speak for it.

That, since the Tea Party espouses non-payment of income taxes, they, and their donors, might logically be expected to practice what they preach.

Surely you are not so stupid that you failed to see that point?

The Tea Party doesn't espouse any such thing.

 

[George Costanza]

You know better than that George, i have never once defended racial profiling by police, and have argued against the stop and frisk polices many department use to prevent crime.

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

I disagree. The IRS is tasked with regulating political speech through the tax code, which is an outright violation of the 1st Amendment. Any defense of that, even if it is in the contest of other abuses by the government, is illegitimate.

What do you mean the IRS is "tasked" with regulating political speech through the tax code?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Well, yes, I think he is - but one can accuse the IRS of profiling the Tea Party and still be against RACIAL profiling. We are parsing terms here, of course, but that's the interesting issue raised by this thread.

Belive it or not, people (usually conservatives) can attack the IRS for profling yet be in FAVOR of RACIAL profiling. Several posts on this thread clearly state that.

Of course it all boils down to the age-old truism, "it all depends on whose ox is being gored."

Come on George;

There was no profiling. Profiling involves the compilation of data and extraction of patterns to determine which groups are most likely to engage in crime. Nothing of the sort was done here. Those targeted by the IRS were selected purely because they were enemies of Barack Obama and the shameful democratic party.

And you well know it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bfgrn is a "fascist fuckwad" for quoting this particular Op-Ed piece? You did think that one out, right?

All that evil need to succeed is a fucking scumbags like Bfgrn.

Actually, I'm not at all surprised that the left is defending a government agency harassing and intimidating the enemies of the Administration. That IS how far we have fallen as a nation.

How did Pol Pot get away with the killing fields in Cambodia? Read the Huffington Post piece, and look at Bfgrn. This is the American left, reprehensible scum who cheer the crushing of civil rights, who rejoice at injustice

People like you and Bugfucker would openly cheer the marching of your neighbors into forced labor and death camps, if those neighbors were not faithful to your shameful party.

I HOPE that you and Bugfucker represent a small and vile minority among Obamunists - but I fear that you may be representative of the complete lack of respect for civil rights that defines today's left.

You should hang your head in shame, but you lack the integrity to.

Nice ignorant rant. Can you come up with any other derogatory words to describe me?

Herein lies your problem(s). First, liberal are overwhelmingly against profiling. It doesn't matter if it is the IRS or the police.

Second, and this is your BIG problem: In the past when the subject of profiling came up, i.e. Arizona's fascist racial profiling law SB 1070, you right wingers were almost 100% behind profiling. So WHO is the "reprehensible scum who cheer the crushing of civil rights, who rejoice at injustice"????

Liberals might be overwhelmingly against profiling, but progressives think it is a great idea.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

Apples and oranges.

Conservatives do not necessarily advocate racial profiling, and such profiling is not necessarily evil. That’s what we’re telling the dingbat left.

It’s leftists who are forever seeking to empower the government on the basis of race and gender and so on against the principle of individual liberty.

Finally, who are these bizarre Americans who side with the IRS? You’re confused. You’re a statist bootlick. Leave. You don't belong here. Go to China.

I DON'T side with the IRS and I abhor profiling. People have to DO something that breaks the law to be stopped, searched, frisked, investigated etc. But whenever profiling is raised, the right LOVES it, just as long as it is being used against blacks, Hispanics and minorities. But the IRS uses profiling against the tea party and it is the end of America...



It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson

Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none.
Edmund Burke

If that was truly your position you would not have posted an Op Ed that justified the IRS targeting conservatives because they support racial profiling, you would actually speak out against any defense of the government abuse of power. You would also demand that the IRS stop regulating speech, and demand that the tax code be reformed so that speech is not a requisite action to getting a tax write off.

You prefer being a fascist fuckwad to being honest.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

On our local news last night, the head of our state's Tea Party was interviewed and he said this was why the Tea Party here did not apply for this tax-exempt status...because it might attract this kind of government scrutiny. He said now would actually be a good time apply, said they could probably get a better shake at getting the exempt status now. The application would go through easily.

You know this particular tax-exempt status is one that is often abused. You either qualify for it or you don't. So I can understand the IRS scrutinizing applications for this status. But they should scrutinize all applications, not single one group out. Even if that one group does mouth off a lot about paying too much tax. (although I can see why that would tend to put the spotlight on them)

That said, it does not make me sad to see the IRS under the gun. Like President Obama said, a group with as much power as the IRS has must not abuse that power.

Wouldn't eliminating the speech restrictions built into the tax code make more sense?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What I notice as a nonpartisan, middle-of the road kind of person who has some liberal viewpoints AND some VERY conservative viewpoints, is that far right-wingers are by far the nastiest and meanest and resort to personal insults rather than debating the topic at hand in a civil manner.

What I have noticed is that there are a lot of fascists fuckwads that support the IRS targeting groups based on their politics even though the Constitution specifically prohibits this type of thing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

I disagree. The IRS is tasked with regulating political speech through the tax code, which is an outright violation of the 1st Amendment. Any defense of that, even if it is in the contest of other abuses by the government, is illegitimate.

What do you mean the IRS is "tasked" with regulating political speech through the tax code?

501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from engaging in politics, and the IRS is tasked with enforcing that rule.

 

[Bfgrn]

He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power. If it makes you feel any better the writer of the Op Ed is a fascist fuckwad also.

LIE...I have never defended the IRS. You are wrong.

This wasn't your post?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

Can you explain that one to the mods so they can figure out who altered your post?

Quantum scum bag, either you are the most dishonest person on this board or the most stupid. Which one is it?

He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power.

When can you provide any other time?

 

[Bfgrn]

Apples and oranges.

Conservatives do not necessarily advocate racial profiling, and such profiling is not necessarily evil. That’s what we’re telling the dingbat left.

It’s leftists who are forever seeking to empower the government on the basis of race and gender and so on against the principle of individual liberty.

Finally, who are these bizarre Americans who side with the IRS? You’re confused. You’re a statist bootlick. Leave. You don't belong here. Go to China.

I DON'T side with the IRS and I abhor profiling. People have to DO something that breaks the law to be stopped, searched, frisked, investigated etc. But whenever profiling is raised, the right LOVES it, just as long as it is being used against blacks, Hispanics and minorities. But the IRS uses profiling against the tea party and it is the end of America...



It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson

Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none.
Edmund Burke

With regard to racial profiling, your claim about conservatives is a lie, and your analogy regarding racial profiling and the IRS's political intimidation is silly . . . kooky.

REALLY? How long have you been a lair? I vividly recall threads debating Arizona's SB 1070 racial profiling law back in 2010. The law was written by conservatives, passed by conservatives, and vehemently opposed by liberals and Democrats. On this board there was not ONE right winger who criticized the bill...

 

[Sunshine]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

This was not racial profiling. This goes to class and not race - the class of people who pay huge amounts of taxes and feel they are paying too much. It could be any race who is a tea partier. And no, I haven't looked into the demographics of the Tea Party. I just know they consider themselves to be heavily and unfairly taxed. So that would suggest they are not welfare class.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

LIE...I have never defended the IRS. You are wrong.

This wasn't your post?



Can you explain that one to the mods so they can figure out who altered your post?

Quantum scum bag, either you are the most dishonest person on this board or the most stupid. Which one is it?

He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power.

When can you provide any other time?

You said never, all I have to do to prove that is not true is provide one example.

You are a fascist fuckwad, case closed.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I DON'T side with the IRS and I abhor profiling. People have to DO something that breaks the law to be stopped, searched, frisked, investigated etc. But whenever profiling is raised, the right LOVES it, just as long as it is being used against blacks, Hispanics and minorities. But the IRS uses profiling against the tea party and it is the end of America...



It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson

Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none.
Edmund Burke

With regard to racial profiling, your claim about conservatives is a lie, and your analogy regarding racial profiling and the IRS's political intimidation is silly . . . kooky.

REALLY? How long have you been a lair? I vividly recall threads debating Arizona's SB 1070 racial profiling law back in 2010. The law was written by conservatives, passed by conservatives, and vehemently opposed by liberals and Democrats. On this board there was not ONE right winger who criticized the bill...

That bill had no more to do with racial profiling than it does with the color of the moon.

By the way, if you support affirmative action you actually support racial profiling. Want to give me a list of all the liberals who oppose racial profiling again?

 

[Bfgrn]

This wasn't your post?



Can you explain that one to the mods so they can figure out who altered your post?

Quantum scum bag, either you are the most dishonest person on this board or the most stupid. Which one is it?

He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power.

When can you provide any other time?

You said never, all I have to do to prove that is not true is provide one example.

You are a fascist fuckwad, case closed.

OK, now we know you are just stupid. YOU SAID "He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power.

YOU set the parameter (not the first time), not me. So YOU need to provide proof "this is not the first time"

 

[Bfgrn]

With regard to racial profiling, your claim about conservatives is a lie, and your analogy regarding racial profiling and the IRS's political intimidation is silly . . . kooky.

REALLY? How long have you been a lair? I vividly recall threads debating Arizona's SB 1070 racial profiling law back in 2010. The law was written by conservatives, passed by conservatives, and vehemently opposed by liberals and Democrats. On this board there was not ONE right winger who criticized the bill...

That bill had no more to do with racial profiling than it does with the color of the moon.

By the way, if you support affirmative action you actually support racial profiling. Want to give me a list of all the liberals who oppose racial profiling again?

Denial? You REALLY are a SCUM bag aren't you? Matter of fact you're a fucking Nazi 'show me your papers' SCUM bag SB 1070 invites rampant racial profiling against Latinos, Asian-Americans and others presumed to be "foreign" based on how they look or sound. They also authorize police to demand papers proving citizenship or immigration status from anyone they stop and suspect of being in the country unlawfully.

Today, the political tide is turning against immigration policy modeled after SB 1070. After observing the widespread harms caused by these laws, legislators in Mississippi, Virginia, Kansas and many other states are distancing themselves from this discriminatory model.

Affirmative Action is NOT profiling you moron. Profiling pertains to criminal activity.

Racial profiling is the use of an individual’s race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel as a key factor in deciding whether to engage in enforcement (e.g. make a traffic stop or arrest). The practice is controversial and is illegal in many jurisdictions.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

What I notice as a nonpartisan, middle-of the road kind of person who has some liberal viewpoints AND some VERY conservative viewpoints, is that far right-wingers are by far the nastiest and meanest and resort to personal insults rather than debating the topic at hand in a civil manner.

Right. The OP essentially accuses conservatives of being racists and bigots and fascists, which is vile, hysterical nonsense, the baby talk of a Pollyannaish nincompoop, but we conservatives are nasty.

The OP is confused and silly. There’s nothing to debate. The OP's very premise is as false and stupid as a a leftist, statist bootlick pretending to tell the truth.

How ya likin' me now?

I find you amusing...you actually did make me LAUGH OUT LOUD! : )

I can almost imagine you frothing and spitting while you talk. Wipe that spittle of your chin! LOL

Oh, I'm sorry, that wasn't very nice of me, was it? Silly me. *giggle*

 

[Zona]

If the tea baggers are tax cheats, I hope they get busted. Period.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

On our local news last night, the head of our state's Tea Party was interviewed and he said this was why the Tea Party here did not apply for this tax-exempt status...because it might attract this kind of government scrutiny. He said now would actually be a good time apply, said they could probably get a better shake at getting the exempt status now. The application would go through easily.

You know this particular tax-exempt status is one that is often abused. You either qualify for it or you don't. So I can understand the IRS scrutinizing applications for this status. But they should scrutinize all applications, not single one group out. Even if that one group does mouth off a lot about paying too much tax. (although I can see why that would tend to put the spotlight on them)

That said, it does not make me sad to see the IRS under the gun. Like President Obama said, a group with as much power as the IRS has must not abuse that power.

Wouldn't eliminating the speech restrictions built into the tax code make more sense?

I don't know. I think it might be okay to place restrictions on groups that get special privileges. The Tea Party nor any other political group is being forced to attain 401(c)(4) status...it's their choice. So if they choose to acquire that status, they need to follow the rules. The rules are the same for all political groups.

I suppose if there are those that feel the speech restrictions should be eliminated for those tax exempt groups, they could start the process of reviewing that. I'm not sure how something like that would be changed, but I suppose those who care about this issue could start by contacting their representatives.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quantum scum bag, either you are the most dishonest person on this board or the most stupid. Which one is it?



When can you provide any other time?

You said never, all I have to do to prove that is not true is provide one example.

You are a fascist fuckwad, case closed.

OK, now we know you are just stupid. YOU SAID "He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power.

YOU set the parameter (not the first time), not me. So YOU need to provide proof "this is not the first time"

You think the government is the best thing that ever happened, which is why you started this thread defending the IRS.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

REALLY? How long have you been a lair? I vividly recall threads debating Arizona's SB 1070 racial profiling law back in 2010. The law was written by conservatives, passed by conservatives, and vehemently opposed by liberals and Democrats. On this board there was not ONE right winger who criticized the bill...

That bill had no more to do with racial profiling than it does with the color of the moon.

By the way, if you support affirmative action you actually support racial profiling. Want to give me a list of all the liberals who oppose racial profiling again?

Denial? You REALLY are a SCUM bag aren't you? Matter of fact you're a fucking Nazi 'show me your papers' SCUM bag SB 1070 invites rampant racial profiling against Latinos, Asian-Americans and others presumed to be "foreign" based on how they look or sound. They also authorize police to demand papers proving citizenship or immigration status from anyone they stop and suspect of being in the country unlawfully.

Today, the political tide is turning against immigration policy modeled after SB 1070. After observing the widespread harms caused by these laws, legislators in Mississippi, Virginia, Kansas and many other states are distancing themselves from this discriminatory model.

Affirmative Action is NOT profiling you moron. Profiling pertains to criminal activity.

Racial profiling is the use of an individual’s race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel as a key factor in deciding whether to engage in enforcement (e.g. make a traffic stop or arrest). The practice is controversial and is illegal in many jurisdictions.

There would be no racial profiling of the type you are so hot and heavy about if we got rid of the idea that the government is supposed to protect people from bad guys.

How is affirmative action not profiling?