Racial profiling OK? Then so is what the IRS did.

[George Costanza]

You know better than that George, i have never once defended racial profiling by police, and have argued against the stop and frisk polices many department use to prevent crime.

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

What would the point be? Remember, you have to speak for it.

That, since the Tea Party espouses non-payment of income taxes, they, and their donors, might logically be expected to practice what they preach.

Surely you are not so stupid that you failed to see that point?

 

[George Costanza]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

oh goody, I hope the Irs scrutinized Zaa Zaa Huffington when she sold her site and made MILLIONS off the people who was writing for her..

I think USA today bought it out and it still has writers that suck...at least they won't feel too used THIS TIME...but you see how the left is all for government TARGETING certain people in the country...AS long as it ISN'T THEM

Memo to Stephanie: "Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," is an inappropriate sig line quote for a conservative. Unless, of course, you aren't a conservative. What was your position on the Patriot Act?

 

[Stephanie]

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

What would the point be? Remember, you have to speak for it.

That, since the Tea Party espouses non-payment of income taxes, they, and their donors, might logically be expected to practice what they preach.

Surely you are not so stupid that you failed to see that point?

Man do you people just make up shit as you go along?
they never said not Pay taxes, they say, TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY..
but evidently you people don't mind this already bloated government taking more of you hard earned money...You liberals should send them your WEEKLY Paychecks..

 

[Bfgrn]

Bfgrn is a "fascist fuckwad" for quoting this particular Op-Ed piece? You did think that one out, right?

All that evil need to succeed is a fucking scumbags like Bfgrn.

Actually, I'm not at all surprised that the left is defending a government agency harassing and intimidating the enemies of the Administration. That IS how far we have fallen as a nation.

How did Pol Pot get away with the killing fields in Cambodia? Read the Huffington Post piece, and look at Bfgrn. This is the American left, reprehensible scum who cheer the crushing of civil rights, who rejoice at injustice

People like you and Bugfucker would openly cheer the marching of your neighbors into forced labor and death camps, if those neighbors were not faithful to your shameful party.

I HOPE that you and Bugfucker represent a small and vile minority among Obamunists - but I fear that you may be representative of the complete lack of respect for civil rights that defines today's left.

You should hang your head in shame, but you lack the integrity to.

Nice ignorant rant. Can you come up with any other derogatory words to describe me?

Herein lies your problem(s). First, liberal are overwhelmingly against profiling. It doesn't matter if it is the IRS or the police.

Second, and this is your BIG problem: In the past when the subject of profiling came up, i.e. Arizona's fascist racial profiling law SB 1070, you right wingers were almost 100% behind profiling. So WHO is the "reprehensible scum who cheer the crushing of civil rights, who rejoice at injustice"????

 

[Stephanie]

this has to be the stupidest article and reasons for a government to target people I have ever seen...but it is from Hufferpost...WHAT would you Expect

 

[Meathead]

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

What would the point be? Remember, you have to speak for it.

That, since the Tea Party espouses non-payment of income taxes, they, and their donors, might logically be expected to practice what they preach.

Surely you are not so stupid that you failed to see that point?

I think you should stop the pretense that civility becomes you. From this dialogue, it does not.

 

[Bfgrn]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

Apples and oranges.

Conservatives do not necessarily advocate racial profiling, and such profiling is not necessarily evil. That’s what we’re telling the dingbat left.

It’s leftists who are forever seeking to empower the government on the basis of race and gender and so on against the principle of individual liberty.

Finally, who are these bizarre Americans who side with the IRS? You’re confused. You’re a statist bootlick. Leave. You don't belong here. Go to China.

I DON'T side with the IRS and I abhor profiling. People have to DO something that breaks the law to be stopped, searched, frisked, investigated etc. But whenever profiling is raised, the right LOVES it, just as long as it is being used against blacks, Hispanics and minorities. But the IRS uses profiling against the tea party and it is the end of America...



It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson

Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none.
Edmund Burke

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

On our local news last night, the head of our state's Tea Party was interviewed and he said this was why the Tea Party here did not apply for this tax-exempt status...because it might attract this kind of government scrutiny. He said now would actually be a good time apply, said they could probably get a better shake at getting the exempt status now. The application would go through easily.

You know this particular tax-exempt status is one that is often abused. You either qualify for it or you don't. So I can understand the IRS scrutinizing applications for this status. But they should scrutinize all applications, not single one group out. Even if that one group does mouth off a lot about paying too much tax. (although I can see why that would tend to put the spotlight on them)

That said, it does not make me sad to see the IRS under the gun. Like President Obama said, a group with as much power as the IRS has must not abuse that power.

 

[kwc57]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

Been selling fertilizer long? How's business?

 

[Meathead]

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

What would the point be? Remember, you have to speak for it.

That, since the Tea Party espouses non-payment of income taxes, they, and their donors, might logically be expected to practice what they preach.

Surely you are not so stupid that you failed to see that point?

What I got from that is that you're a prick. Your pretense makes it all the worse!

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

What I notice as a nonpartisan, middle-of the road kind of person who has some liberal viewpoints AND some VERY conservative viewpoints, is that far right-wingers are by far the nastiest and meanest and resort to personal insults rather than debating the topic at hand in a civil manner.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

Apples and oranges.

Conservatives do not necessarily advocate racial profiling, and such profiling is not necessarily evil. That’s what we’re telling the dingbat left.

It’s leftists who are forever seeking to empower the government on the basis of race and gender and so on against the principle of individual liberty.

Finally, who are these bizarre Americans who side with the IRS? You’re confused. You’re a statist bootlick. Leave. You don't belong here. Go to China.

I DON'T side with the IRS and I abhor profiling. People have to DO something that breaks the law to be stopped, searched, frisked, investigated etc. But whenever profiling is raised, the right LOVES it, just as long as it is being used against blacks, Hispanics and minorities. But the IRS uses profiling against the tea party and it is the end of America...



It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson

Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none.
Edmund Burke

With regard to racial profiling, your claim about conservatives is a lie, and your analogy regarding racial profiling and the IRS's political intimidation is silly . . . kooky.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

What I notice as a nonpartisan, middle-of the road kind of person who has some liberal viewpoints AND some VERY conservative viewpoints, is that far right-wingers are by far the nastiest and meanest and resort to personal insults rather than debating the topic at hand in a civil manner.

Right. The OP essentially accuses conservatives of being racists and bigots and fascists, which is vile, hysterical nonsense, the baby talk of a Pollyannaish nincompoop, but we conservatives are nasty.

The OP is confused and silly. There’s nothing to debate. The OP's very premise is as false and stupid as a a leftist, statist bootlick pretending to tell the truth.

How ya likin' me now?

 

[Uncensored2008]

It would appear you are trying to have it both ways here.

Not at all.

Racial profiling is done because statistically blacks commit most of the crime in the nation. As such, watching black people more closely has a certain logic.

Now I disagree with racial profiling, because it assumes guilt and may even be a form of prior restraint, BUT there is no denying that there is a solid foundation for racial profiling.

No such evidence of tax fraud exists for the Tea Party or other enemies of the party, ergo the harassment by the federal government is purely a matter of partisan dirty,

Yes, I have evidence that the Tea Party engages in more tax fraud than others.

No you don't.

Opposition to payment of income tax is one of the MAIN PLATFORMS of the Tea Party.

False.

Opposition to HIGHER taxes and spending are. The allegation that Tea Party protestors refuse to pay taxes is libel, and without any basis.

With me so far? Any argument with that? That being the case, it is logical to assume that the Tea Party itself, and many of the people who donate to it, might well be engaged in the very thing that they espouse so loudly - NOT PAYING INCOME TAXES.

Again, you post falsehood. Opposition to tax increases is not a refusal to pay taxes. Support of simplified and less corrupt taxation, such as the flat tax, is not refusal to pay taxes.

Demagoguery is unbecoming, George.

There is no valid foundation for racial profiling unless, of course, you are a racial bigot.

Or you happen to be literate.

I suppose, in the mind of a racial bigot, racial profiling by police is justifiable while profiling the Tea Party is not, since I would suspect there are not too many racial minorities in the ranks of the TP.

More than you think.

So, come to think of it, I guess you can have it both ways.

You are attempting to create simile our of dog turds; it does little save to stink up the place.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That, since the Tea Party espouses non-payment of income taxes, they, and their donors, might logically be expected to practice what they preach.

Since the democratic party espouses molesting small boys, we should have CPS monitor all democrats.

Gosh, it's sure easy to openly lie and slander the opposition. I see why you do it.

Surely you are not so stupid that you failed to see that point?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Nice ignorant rant. Can you come up with any other derogatory words to describe me?

Fascist thug is pretty obvious!

Herein lies your problem(s). First, liberal are overwhelmingly against profiling. It doesn't matter if it is the IRS or the police.

First; You're not a liberal, you're a leftist.

Second; There was no profiling. Profiling involves the compilation of data and extraction of patterns to determine which groups are most likely to engage in crime. Nothing of the sort was done here. Those targeted were selected purely because they were enemies of Barack Obama and the shameful democratic party.

Second, and this is your BIG problem: In the past when the subject of profiling came up, i.e. Arizona's fascist racial profiling law SB 1070, you right wingers were almost 100% behind profiling. So WHO is the "reprehensible scum who cheer the crushing of civil rights, who rejoice at injustice"????

Except of course that SB1070 prohibits profiling, as you well know.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What I notice as a nonpartisan, middle-of the road kind of person who has some liberal viewpoints AND some VERY conservative viewpoints, is that far right-wingers are by far the nastiest and meanest and resort to personal insults rather than debating the topic at hand in a civil manner.

Whereas you lefties prefer to just use the government to crush your enemies....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh, that doesn't happen, don't you know?

You know better than that George, i have never once defended racial profiling by police, and have argued against the stop and frisk polices many department use to prevent crime.

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

I disagree. The IRS is tasked with regulating political speech through the tax code, which is an outright violation of the 1st Amendment. Any defense of that, even if it is in the contest of other abuses by the government, is illegitimate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bfgrn is a "fascist fuckwad" for quoting this particular Op-Ed piece? You did think that one out, right?

When it comes to a comparison between the Obama administration and the Tea Party, the only "facist fuckwads" I see belong to the Tea Party, not the current administration. Hence, I think your diatribe here may be misplaced.

However, having said that, let me say this - IF the motivation for the IRS "scrutinizing" the Tea Party was as stated in the OP op-ed piece, then I don't have any trouble with it. However, if the motivation was more political than a genuine concentration of investigation based on liklihood of actual tax evasion going on, then that's another matter. Obviously, the op-ed piece assumes the latter.

I doubt that we will ever know the true reason behind the IRS's motivation in this case.

He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power. If it makes you feel any better the writer of the Op Ed is a fascist fuckwad also.

LIE...I have never defended the IRS. You are wrong.

This wasn't your post?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

Can you explain that one to the mods so they can figure out who altered your post?

 

[George Costanza]

You know better than that George, i have never once defended racial profiling by police, and have argued against the stop and frisk polices many department use to prevent crime.

In fairness, yes - you have been an outspoken opponent against racial profiling and other search and seizure abuses by police.

But the OP does raise a point, regardless of the political-hack ranting and raving so far on this thread.

Come on, George. This guy is comparing the IRS' behavior with racial profiling. It's nonsense.

Well, yes, I think he is - but one can accuse the IRS of profiling the Tea Party and still be against RACIAL profiling. We are parsing terms here, of course, but that's the interesting issue raised by this thread.

Belive it or not, people (usually conservatives) can attack the IRS for profling yet be in FAVOR of RACIAL profiling. Several posts on this thread clearly state that.

Of course it all boils down to the age-old truism, "it all depends on whose ox is being gored."