Racial profiling OK? Then so is what the IRS did.

[Quantum Windbag]

On our local news last night, the head of our state's Tea Party was interviewed and he said this was why the Tea Party here did not apply for this tax-exempt status...because it might attract this kind of government scrutiny. He said now would actually be a good time apply, said they could probably get a better shake at getting the exempt status now. The application would go through easily.

You know this particular tax-exempt status is one that is often abused. You either qualify for it or you don't. So I can understand the IRS scrutinizing applications for this status. But they should scrutinize all applications, not single one group out. Even if that one group does mouth off a lot about paying too much tax. (although I can see why that would tend to put the spotlight on them)

That said, it does not make me sad to see the IRS under the gun. Like President Obama said, a group with as much power as the IRS has must not abuse that power.

Wouldn't eliminating the speech restrictions built into the tax code make more sense?

I don't know. I think it might be okay to place restrictions on groups that get special privileges. The Tea Party nor any other political group is being forced to attain 401(c)(4) status...it's their choice. So if they choose to acquire that status, they need to follow the rules. The rules are the same for all political groups.

I suppose if there are those that feel the speech restrictions should be eliminated for those tax exempt groups, they could start the process of reviewing that. I'm not sure how something like that would be changed, but I suppose those who care about this issue could start by contacting their representatives.

That isn't how it works, the government actually requires them to get that status if they are going to do certain things.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Wouldn't eliminating the speech restrictions built into the tax code make more sense?

I don't know. I think it might be okay to place restrictions on groups that get special privileges. The Tea Party nor any other political group is being forced to attain 401(c)(4) status...it's their choice. So if they choose to acquire that status, they need to follow the rules. The rules are the same for all political groups.

I suppose if there are those that feel the speech restrictions should be eliminated for those tax exempt groups, they could start the process of reviewing that. I'm not sure how something like that would be changed, but I suppose those who care about this issue could start by contacting their representatives.

That isn't how it works, the government actually requires them to get that status if they are going to do certain things.

Well, it is quickly becoming obvious to me that I don't know enough about this to continue discussing it, let alone argue with you. And I don't have time to "Google" right now. : )

At least the great majority of people, left and right and in-between, seem to agree that Tea Party groups being singled out for scrutiny was unacceptable. That's good, right? At least most of us agree on that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't know. I think it might be okay to place restrictions on groups that get special privileges. The Tea Party nor any other political group is being forced to attain 401(c)(4) status...it's their choice. So if they choose to acquire that status, they need to follow the rules. The rules are the same for all political groups.

I suppose if there are those that feel the speech restrictions should be eliminated for those tax exempt groups, they could start the process of reviewing that. I'm not sure how something like that would be changed, but I suppose those who care about this issue could start by contacting their representatives.

That isn't how it works, the government actually requires them to get that status if they are going to do certain things.

Well, it is quickly becoming obvious to me that I don't know enough about this to continue discussing it, let alone argue with you. And I don't have time to "Google" right now. : )

At least the great majority of people, left and right and in-between, seem to agree that Tea Party groups being singled out for scrutiny was unacceptable. That's good, right? At least most of us agree on that?

It is mostly good, depends on what actually comes of it.

 

[Bfgrn]

You said never, all I have to do to prove that is not true is provide one example.

You are a fascist fuckwad, case closed.

OK, now we know you are just stupid. YOU SAID "He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power.

YOU set the parameter (not the first time), not me. So YOU need to provide proof "this is not the first time"

You think the government is the best thing that ever happened, which is why you started this thread defending the IRS.

Can't provide proof. Epic fail as usual.

 

[Bfgrn]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

This was not racial profiling. This goes to class and not race - the class of people who pay huge amounts of taxes and feel they are paying too much. It could be any race who is a tea partier. And no, I haven't looked into the demographics of the Tea Party. I just know they consider themselves to be heavily and unfairly taxed. So that would suggest they are not welfare class.

You're right this is not racial profiling, it is criminal profiling; a behavioral and investigative tool that is intended to help investigators to accurately predict and profile the characteristics of unknown criminal subjects or offenders,

 

[Bfgrn]

That bill had no more to do with racial profiling than it does with the color of the moon.

By the way, if you support affirmative action you actually support racial profiling. Want to give me a list of all the liberals who oppose racial profiling again?

Denial? You REALLY are a SCUM bag aren't you? Matter of fact you're a fucking Nazi 'show me your papers' SCUM bag SB 1070 invites rampant racial profiling against Latinos, Asian-Americans and others presumed to be "foreign" based on how they look or sound. They also authorize police to demand papers proving citizenship or immigration status from anyone they stop and suspect of being in the country unlawfully.

Today, the political tide is turning against immigration policy modeled after SB 1070. After observing the widespread harms caused by these laws, legislators in Mississippi, Virginia, Kansas and many other states are distancing themselves from this discriminatory model.

Affirmative Action is NOT profiling you moron. Profiling pertains to criminal activity.

Racial profiling is the use of an individual’s race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel as a key factor in deciding whether to engage in enforcement (e.g. make a traffic stop or arrest). The practice is controversial and is illegal in many jurisdictions.

There would be no racial profiling of the type you are so hot and heavy about if we got rid of the idea that the government is supposed to protect people from bad guys.

How is affirmative action not profiling?

WHAT? Government is not supposed to protect citizens from bad guys??? You need to pack up and move to Somalia. There the government doesn't protect people from bad guys. Various warlord-run militias and hardline Islamic rebels run wild. You will love it. Send me a postcard, and make sure you have all your final papers in order; you last will and testament, etc.

I just explained why Affirmative Action is not racial profiling. Can you read?

 

[JoeB131]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

All well said.

I'm really kind of amazed that they are getting away with this, frankly.

A group that has a position that government is evil and we should let people on welfare die because they are "leeches", applying for a tax exemption as a social welfare agency is the ultimate in chutzpah.

 

[JoeB131]

Bfgrn is a "fascist fuckwad" for quoting this particular Op-Ed piece? You did think that one out, right?

All that evil need to succeed is a fucking scumbags like Bfgrn.

Actually, I'm not at all surprised that the left is defending a government agency harassing and intimidating the enemies of the Administration. That IS how far we have fallen as a nation.

How did Pol Pot get away with the killing fields in Cambodia? Read the Huffington Post piece, and look at Bfgrn. This is the American left, reprehensible scum who cheer the crushing of civil rights, who rejoice at injustice

People like you and Bugfucker would openly cheer the marching of your neighbors into forced labor and death camps, if those neighbors were not faithful to your shameful party.

I HOPE that you and Bugfucker represent a small and vile minority among Obamunists - but I fear that you may be representative of the complete lack of respect for civil rights that defines today's left.

You should hang your head in shame, but you lack the integrity to.

Yup, not giving you a dubious tax deduction for the Tea Party Group you started in your basement after listening to Glen Beck is EXACTLY the same as Pol Pot. Absolutely.

Frankly, that tax deduction is for groups doing good works... not for whack groups trying to hide donors and avoid paying their fair share of taxes.

 

[Bfgrn]

While Republicans attack the Obama administration over some IRS agents auditing conservative groups with the words "Tea Party" and "patriot" in their names, they weren't particularly outraged when the IRS targeted liberal groups during President George W. Bush's presidency, noted Salon.com.

“I wish there was more GOP interest when I raised the same issue during the Bush administration, where they audited a progressive church in my district in what look liked a very selective way,” Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) told MSNBC on Monday (video below). One of the liberal groups targeted by the IRS under the Bush administration was All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, California, reported the Los Angeles Times.

The IRS actually threatened to revoke the church's tax-emption because Pastor George Regas said: ‘Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine," on the Sunday before the 2004 election. Ironically, conservative churches that actively campaigned for President Bush in 2004 were not audited by the IRS, reported the New York Times.

According to the Baltimore Sun, the IRS also went after the NAACP after they said Bush was the first president since Herbert Hoover not to address the organization.

In 2006, the IRS investigated the liberal environmental group Greenpeace after a conservative group called "Public Interest Watch," which had financial ties to Exxon, pushed for an investigation, reported Democracy Now.

Sources: Salon.com, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Baltimore Sun, Democracy Now, MSNBC

 

[Meathead]

Sources: Salon.com, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Baltimore Sun, Democracy Now, MSNBC

Lol! Now, if you had added JoeB it would have been even funnier.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You're right this is not racial profiling, it is criminal profiling; a behavioral and investigative tool that is intended to help investigators to accurately predict and profile the characteristics of unknown criminal subjects or offenders,

Bullshit - as you know.

There was no profiling. Profiling involves the compilation of data and extraction of patterns to determine which groups are most likely to engage in crime. Nothing of the sort was done here. Those targeted were selected purely because they were enemies of Barack Obama and the shameful democratic party.

 

[Bfgrn]

Sources: Salon.com, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Baltimore Sun, Democracy Now, MSNBC

Lol! Now, if you had added JoeB it would have been even funnier.

Do you REALLY believe Faux News would ever report any of theses FACTS?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do you REALLY believe Faux News would ever report any of theses FACTS?

I don't believe you would ever post a fact.

You never have yet.

 

[Bfgrn]

Do you REALLY believe Faux News would ever report any of theses FACTS?

I don't believe you would ever post a fact.

You never have yet.

That is all I post. And you have never been able to disprove any of the facts I post.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That is all I post. And you have never been able to disprove any of the facts I post.

How about this one, corkey?

There was no profiling. Profiling involves the compilation of data and extraction of patterns to determine which groups are most likely to engage in crime. Nothing of the sort was done here. Those targeted were selected purely because they were enemies of Barack Obama and the shameful democratic party.


Pretty well destroys your profiling lie....

 

[Meathead]

Do you REALLY believe Faux News would ever report any of theses FACTS?

I don't believe you would ever post a fact.

You never have yet.

That is all I post. And you have never been able to disprove any of the facts I post.

That's kind of stupid, A fact cannot be disproved regardless of who posted it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

OK, now we know you are just stupid. YOU SAID "He is a fascist fuckwad because this is not the first time he has defended the IRS in its abuse of power.

YOU set the parameter (not the first time), not me. So YOU need to provide proof "this is not the first time"

You think the government is the best thing that ever happened, which is why you started this thread defending the IRS.

Can't provide proof. Epic fail as usual.

Are you trying to deny you started this thread?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Denial? You REALLY are a SCUM bag aren't you? Matter of fact you're a fucking Nazi 'show me your papers' SCUM bag SB 1070 invites rampant racial profiling against Latinos, Asian-Americans and others presumed to be "foreign" based on how they look or sound. They also authorize police to demand papers proving citizenship or immigration status from anyone they stop and suspect of being in the country unlawfully.

Today, the political tide is turning against immigration policy modeled after SB 1070. After observing the widespread harms caused by these laws, legislators in Mississippi, Virginia, Kansas and many other states are distancing themselves from this discriminatory model.

Affirmative Action is NOT profiling you moron. Profiling pertains to criminal activity.

Racial profiling is the use of an individual’s race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel as a key factor in deciding whether to engage in enforcement (e.g. make a traffic stop or arrest). The practice is controversial and is illegal in many jurisdictions.

There would be no racial profiling of the type you are so hot and heavy about if we got rid of the idea that the government is supposed to protect people from bad guys.

How is affirmative action not profiling?

WHAT? Government is not supposed to protect citizens from bad guys??? You need to pack up and move to Somalia. There the government doesn't protect people from bad guys. Various warlord-run militias and hardline Islamic rebels run wild. You will love it. Send me a postcard, and make sure you have all your final papers in order; you last will and testament, etc.

I just explained why Affirmative Action is not racial profiling. Can you read?

Funny, I don't recall saying that. What I said, and will repeat, is that we would not have racial profiling of the type you are so hot and heavy about if we got rid of that idea. We should enable people to protect themselves, and eliminate the need for police to pull people over based on their skin color just to keep the idiots happy.

By the way, I have a thread just for you since you are the first idiot to mention Somalia since I started it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/293164-anarchy-results-in-people-stepping-up.html

For the record, what you did was provide a definition of racial profiling that applies only to police. If we accept that definition as the only one it would be impossible for the TSA, or any other non law enforcement agency, to use it, which is absurd. That means your definition is incomplete, which again leads me to ask how affirmative action is not racial profiling.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have argued with people that racial profiling is an infringement of our civil liberties. And conservatives have been pretty consistent that they are OK with it. Do you still feel that way when the IRS does it?

The IRS Was Dead Right To Scrutinize Tea Party

In castigating government as the root of all evil while portraying taxation as a form of tyranny, the Tea Party is no less than a mass celebration of the evasion of the basic responsibilities of American citizenship. Common sense alone tells you that people drawn to its ranks may feel extra temptation to find ways to limit what they surrender to the rogue federal bureaucrats who have supposedly seized the nation.

Like any institution, the agency has limited resources at its disposal. The notion that everyone ought to be treated the same, with auditing powers sprayed around like a lawn sprinkler, is ridiculous. Cops concentrate patrols in high-crime areas. And while we properly decry racial profiling and odious tactics like New York City's Stop and Frisk campaign -- through which people are subject to police pat-downs for no other reason than their being black and male -- no one would criticize the police for keeping an eye on people who are openly encouraging criminal behavior.

Which gets us back to the Tea Party. Here is a group that has made no effort to hide its contempt for the very institution of taxation. This is what it says on the website of the Cincinnati Tea Party: "Individuals need to have a direct connection between their efforts and the fruits of their labor. This is the magical spark that has led the United States from a loosely conglomerated political experiment into the most exceptional, strongest and most powerful nation on earth. Too many taxes and regulations ultimately serve to snuff out that spark."

The Tea Party stands for many things, but a big part of its message is that sending money to Washington amounts to the perpetuation of a dangerous welfare state that's intent on turning America into a helpless land where our lone skill is filling out the forms to go on the dole.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that people who hold such beliefs might feel additional motivation to pursue grey areas and loopholes at tax time? Wouldn't the people who oversee federal coffers have been derelict had they not at least had a good look?

None of which justifies shortcuts in terms of due process or basic civil liberties. We live in a free society, and people can congregate and propagate and opine as they like. People should be able to vote how they choose and encourage others to do the same, while feeling secure that they will not suffer reprisals at work or under the law.

This scandal does not stem from the IRS actually levying action that contravenes the law. It's simply about whom the IRS decided to scrutinize. And the IRS had abundant reason to look carefully at the applications for tax exempt status sent in by people who are prone to portray taxes as something as base as slavery.

Whole Op-Ed

All well said.

I'm really kind of amazed that they are getting away with this, frankly.

A group that has a position that government is evil and we should let people on welfare die because they are "leeches", applying for a tax exemption as a social welfare agency is the ultimate in chutzpah.

Anothe fascist fuckwad, what a surprise.

By the way, aren't you one of the idiots that argued that authoritarian personalities are all right wing? Does this make you right wing, or a liar?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Do you REALLY believe Faux News would ever report any of theses FACTS?

I don't believe you would ever post a fact.

You never have yet.

That is all I post. And you have never been able to disprove any of the facts I post.

Your post insisting that you explained why affirmative action is not racial profiling was not factual, so this post is a lie.