Rape does not justify abortion

[Maple]

We all have a right to life, even if you don't believe that rights come from the government the right to life is written into the constitution.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

If the purpose of government is to protect the rights of those who cannot defend themselves because no one is less capable of defending their rights than an unborn child. Rape is a horrific crime, we all know that, but it does not justify anyone taking away the rights of an innocent person.

There is nothing that boils my blood more than a man, ( I am assuming that you are a man) telling a woman anything that relates to her body. Men are rarely victims of rape or incest and I have yet to see a man pregnant and deliver a baby. I am a pro-life conservative, but I would not ever force a woman who had been raped to re-live that nightmare for nine months or the rest of her life. Nor would I ever stand for a man telling her to do so. You men lose the Republican women's vote anytime you talk about it. I am pro-life but I absolutely make the 3 exceptions, for rape, incest and the life of the mother.

There are some MEN who have even stated that they would not consider the life of the mother. I want to ask you this, are you going to be willing to raise and nuture the 3 kids she has at home when she dies giving birth to her 4th child? Are you going to be the one who has tell the 3 that she left behind that this was god's will. If this is your stand, I don't want to see you going for cancer treatment or anything else as it was God's will that you came down with cancer and treating it to save your life goes against God's will. That's how damn stupid you sound to me when I hear a rant like this.

BTW I am a Republican conservative woman.

 

[Noomi]

I would love to see the pro lifers prove how much they care about children by adopting one. But they won't.

 

[beagle9]

We all have a right to life, even if you don't believe that rights come from the government the right to life is written into the constitution.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

If the purpose of government is to protect the rights of those who cannot defend themselves because no one is less capable of defending their rights than an unborn child. Rape is a horrific crime, we all know that, but it does not justify anyone taking away the rights of an innocent person.

There is nothing that boils my blood more than a man, ( I am assuming that you are a man) telling a woman anything that relates to her body. Men are rarely victims of rape or incest and I have yet to see a man pregnant and deliver a baby. I am a pro-life conservative, but I would not ever force a woman who had been raped to re-live that nightmare for nine months or the rest of her life. Nor would I ever stand for a man telling her to do so. You men lose the Republican women's vote anytime you talk about it. I am pro-life but I absolutely make the 3 exceptions, for rape, incest and the life of the mother.

There are some MEN who have even stated that they would not consider the life of the mother. I want to ask you this, are you going to be willing to raise and nuture the 3 kids she has at home when she dies giving birth to her 4th child? Are you going to be the one who has tell the 3 that she left behind that this was god's will. If this is your stand, I don't want to see you going for cancer treatment or anything else as it was God's will that you came down with cancer and treating it to save your life goes against God's will. That's how damn stupid you sound to me when I hear a rant like this.

BTW I am a Republican conservative woman.

People like this in which you refer to, use God in their own ways and upon their own terms, instead of God using them in his way in which is rightfully so. Beware of devils who act Godly and invoke God's name to empower their words, where as they think that we are dum enough not to see this, but we know them when they do this, just as others should know them as well when they do this.

 

[AmyNation]

I wish this was an issue we , as a nation, could compromise on and finally move on from. The constant back and forth, the money and time we waste on this issue could be much better spent.

 

[Noomi]

How to end abortion? Its not possible. Banning abortion will still mean people will have abortions, they will just go underground - which I think is what the lifers would prefer. We can lower the abortion rate by starting sex education in schools early on, and do what the Netherlands does. They have an extremely low rate of teen births because they have been educated on safe sex, yet conservatives think that the way to prevent teen pregnancy is to tell them not to have sex.

I think we should ask Bristol Palin how well that works.

Can you prove that the reason the Netherlands has a low abortion rate is because of sex education? Of course you can't, so why make the argument in the first place? Is it possible you have an agenda that somehow justifies you making statements you know to be false?

Hmm, lets see...

Holland starts sex education at a young age. Parents are happy to have their teenager share the same room as their partners. They are open and honest with their kids. They are taught about contraception. As a result, they have a very low rate of teen births.

In America, parents don't want their kids to learn sex education. Abstinence only education is pushed upon children. Parents - especially the religious freaks - are not as open and honest with their kids about contraception.
As a result, the rate of teen births is sky high.

Only an idiot would believe that the American approach is working.

 

[syrenn]

But one incubator isn't as good as another is it. And a C-section is quite an invasive procedure and not without its own risks--much more risk than an abortion wouldn't you say?

Prolifers might or might not excerpt one line from a post and try to make it the sum total of the intent of the post, but we can leave that for another discussion. The line that you excerpted however addressed your own assertion of the viability of the fetus being the guideline by which abortion should be deemed acceptable. I am simply pointing out that the newborn baby is no more viable without total care and support any more than is a fetus at any stage of pregnancy.

So for the prolifer, it still comes down to the one question that the pro-abortion crowd so desperately seems to want to dismiss. Is the unborn baby a human life or isn't it? The prolifer says that yes it is, and therefore it is two lives to be considered, and not just the 'choice of the mother'.

A c section is also a form of birth. Do you have something against birth now?


Your example of what is and what is not viable...... are not the same thing.

If we make both examples equal... Baby=cells..... then you should still have no problem with giving the very same loving care to a bunch of cells on a table. Feed it... keep it warm... love and care for it..... give it all the life supporting measures you want. Let it have its.... life.


I have no problem answering the question ff. It is human cells from the start. Just as finger nails and hair are human cells.

Living...and having a life of its own are two very different things.


So again... prolifers claim its a life of its own.... there should be zero problem with giving it a c section birth at any point after conception.

Certainly a c-section is a form of birth and an excellent choice for women who for whatever reason are unable to safely have a natural birth. And that is totally irrelevent to this discussion.

Again one more time for the challenged here: The prolifer values the sanctity of life at all stages necessary to that life. And the longer the life can stay in the womb for the period of gestation necessary for human life, the better off that person is going to be. Because of that the prolifer considers two lives: that of the mother and that of the child.

The pro-abortion crowd, at least those with any conscience at all, has to believe that the unborn is not a human life, is less than a person, in order to justify killing it. That allows the only consideration to be whatever the choice of the mother might be to be acceptable and not to be challenged.

And that is the discussion that the proabortion crowd seems unwilling to have.

C section is very relevant to this discussion. It is birth. Again.... give the mass of cells birth.... no "abortion" necessary. That should cover all of your arguments against abortion. A c section is birth.


The pro abortion crowd as you put it, have time and again.... all said the cells are human. They have also said it is not a life of its own.

So long as the cells are interdependent and not stand alone life without a host..... it is not a baby or child. It is a mass of human non viable human cells.

 

[beagle9]

How to end abortion? Its not possible. Banning abortion will still mean people will have abortions, they will just go underground - which I think is what the lifers would prefer. We can lower the abortion rate by starting sex education in schools early on, and do what the Netherlands does. They have an extremely low rate of teen births because they have been educated on safe sex, yet conservatives think that the way to prevent teen pregnancy is to tell them not to have sex.

I think we should ask Bristol Palin how well that works.

Can you prove that the reason the Netherlands has a low abortion rate is because of sex education? Of course you can't, so why make the argument in the first place? Is it possible you have an agenda that somehow justifies you making statements you know to be false?

Hmm, lets see...

Holland starts sex education at a young age. Parents are happy to have their teenager share the same room as their partners. They are open and honest with their kids. They are taught about contraception. As a result, they have a very low rate of teen births.

In America, parents don't want their kids to learn sex education. Abstinence only education is pushed upon children. Parents - especially the religious freaks - are not as open and honest with their kids about contraception.
As a result, the rate of teen births is sky high.

Only an idiot would believe that the American approach is working.

We tried Hollands version during the sixties, and isn't that where the baby boomers came from ?

 

[Dr Grump]

Abortion helps people get born? How?

By the way, I am not making moral choice for others, I am attempting to prevent people from making immoral choices to kill others.

i don't think it's immoral. i think it's immoral to force a woman to have a child she doesn't want. i think it's immoral to then say that she's on her own and you don't support any type of daycare, education assistance and job training for her. i think it's immoral to make a woman have a child who might look like the person who raped her. i think it's immoral to let a woman die because you won't terminate a pregnancy that is killing her.

Me Me Me. It's all the Left ever thinks about.

Oh, the irony of that statement..

 

[Noomi]

Can you prove that the reason the Netherlands has a low abortion rate is because of sex education? Of course you can't, so why make the argument in the first place? Is it possible you have an agenda that somehow justifies you making statements you know to be false?

Hmm, lets see...

Holland starts sex education at a young age. Parents are happy to have their teenager share the same room as their partners. They are open and honest with their kids. They are taught about contraception. As a result, they have a very low rate of teen births.

In America, parents don't want their kids to learn sex education. Abstinence only education is pushed upon children. Parents - especially the religious freaks - are not as open and honest with their kids about contraception.
As a result, the rate of teen births is sky high.

Only an idiot would believe that the American approach is working.

We tried Hollands version during the sixties, and isn't that where the baby boomers came from ?

I am part of Gen Y. I wouldn't have a clue what happened in the 60's.

 

[Maple]

There have always been abortions, even in the middle ages, a good movie to watch for all of you men and women who think abortions will end if we end Roe vs Wade need to watch is "Cider House Rules." Young women died from back alley hacks spreading infection. Another thing to consider, drugs are illegal yet they are rampant. No law will end abortion. What a woman does with her body is between herself and her god as we can't legislate personal morality.

It's high time to end the talk on this issue, all it does to us conservative Republicans is cause us to lose elections. I respect life, but I also respect the life of the mother as mother's are very important to me as well.

 

[Dr Grump]

Do you honestly think I can't?



The word translated as soul in this verse is nephesh, which means breathing creature. I am sure you are willing to admit that people are living, and breathing, creatures. That makes people souls.

If you are honest you will rep me for this one since I just used the Bible to prove something science agrees with.

Your opinion doesn't translate into facts. Nor does your faith...

Are you saying I am wrong that we all breathe? Do you have any evidence to prove we don't?

Look up the definition of the word 'soul' then get back to me..

 

[Dr Grump]

How to end abortion? Its not possible. Banning abortion will still mean people will have abortions, they will just go underground - which I think is what the lifers would prefer. We can lower the abortion rate by starting sex education in schools early on, and do what the Netherlands does. They have an extremely low rate of teen births because they have been educated on safe sex, yet conservatives think that the way to prevent teen pregnancy is to tell them not to have sex.

I think we should ask Bristol Palin how well that works.

Can you prove that the reason the Netherlands has a low abortion rate is because of sex education? Of course you can't, so why make the argument in the first place? Is it possible you have an agenda that somehow justifies you making statements you know to be false?

Hmm, lets see...

Holland starts sex education at a young age. Parents are happy to have their teenager share the same room as their partners. They are open and honest with their kids. They are taught about contraception. As a result, they have a very low rate of teen births.

In America, parents don't want their kids to learn sex education. Abstinence only education is pushed upon children. Parents - especially the religious freaks - are not as open and honest with their kids about contraception.
As a result, the rate of teen births is sky high.

Only an idiot would believe that the American approach is working.

Well, look who you're posting to.

'nuff said..

 

[Dr Grump]

We all have a right to life, even if you don't believe that rights come from the government the right to life is written into the constitution.



If the purpose of government is to protect the rights of those who cannot defend themselves because no one is less capable of defending their rights than an unborn child. Rape is a horrific crime, we all know that, but it does not justify anyone taking away the rights of an innocent person.

There is nothing that boils my blood more than a man, ( I am assuming that you are a man) telling a woman anything that relates to her body. Men are rarely victims of rape or incest and I have yet to see a man pregnant and deliver a baby. I am a pro-life conservative, but I would not ever force a woman who had been raped to re-live that nightmare for nine months or the rest of her life. Nor would I ever stand for a man telling her to do so. You men lose the Republican women's vote anytime you talk about it. I am pro-life but I absolutely make the 3 exceptions, for rape, incest and the life of the mother.

There are some MEN who have even stated that they would not consider the life of the mother. I want to ask you this, are you going to be willing to raise and nuture the 3 kids she has at home when she dies giving birth to her 4th child? Are you going to be the one who has tell the 3 that she left behind that this was god's will. If this is your stand, I don't want to see you going for cancer treatment or anything else as it was God's will that you came down with cancer and treating it to save your life goes against God's will. That's how damn stupid you sound to me when I hear a rant like this.

BTW I am a Republican conservative woman.

People like this in which you refer to, use God in their own ways and upon their own terms, instead of God using them in his way in which is rightfully so. Beware of devils who act Godly and invoke God's name to empower their words, where as they think that we are dum enough not to see this, but we know them when they do this, just as others should know them as well when they do this.

Wanna try that in English?

 

[Dr Grump]

Can you prove that the reason the Netherlands has a low abortion rate is because of sex education? Of course you can't, so why make the argument in the first place? Is it possible you have an agenda that somehow justifies you making statements you know to be false?

Hmm, lets see...

Holland starts sex education at a young age. Parents are happy to have their teenager share the same room as their partners. They are open and honest with their kids. They are taught about contraception. As a result, they have a very low rate of teen births.

In America, parents don't want their kids to learn sex education. Abstinence only education is pushed upon children. Parents - especially the religious freaks - are not as open and honest with their kids about contraception.
As a result, the rate of teen births is sky high.

Only an idiot would believe that the American approach is working.

We tried Hollands version during the sixties, and isn't that where the baby boomers came from ?

Nope. Baby boomers are the result of soldiers returning home from WWII. The 60s kids are Gen Xers...

 

[beagle9]

There have always been abortions, even in the middle ages, a good movie to watch for all of you men and women who think abortions will end if we end Roe vs Wade need to watch is "Cider House Rules." Young women died from back alley hacks spreading infection. Another thing to consider, drugs are illegal yet they are rampant. No law will end abortion. What a woman does with her body is between herself and her god as we can't legislate personal morality.

It's high time to end the talk on this issue, all it does to us conservative Republicans is cause us to lose elections. I respect life, but I also respect the life of the mother as mother's are very important to me as well.

Well what the government supports and what it doesn't support is very important here, because government always empowers things, even if it is the wrong things, it still empowers them until realizes it's wrong just the same as well. The only way to get government back in line, is to talk about where it has gone wrong in America, and how it should maybe reconsider it's position that it was duped into supporting, and for which empowered the position once it supported it.

 

[beagle9]

There is nothing that boils my blood more than a man, ( I am assuming that you are a man) telling a woman anything that relates to her body. Men are rarely victims of rape or incest and I have yet to see a man pregnant and deliver a baby. I am a pro-life conservative, but I would not ever force a woman who had been raped to re-live that nightmare for nine months or the rest of her life. Nor would I ever stand for a man telling her to do so. You men lose the Republican women's vote anytime you talk about it. I am pro-life but I absolutely make the 3 exceptions, for rape, incest and the life of the mother.

There are some MEN who have even stated that they would not consider the life of the mother. I want to ask you this, are you going to be willing to raise and nuture the 3 kids she has at home when she dies giving birth to her 4th child? Are you going to be the one who has tell the 3 that she left behind that this was god's will. If this is your stand, I don't want to see you going for cancer treatment or anything else as it was God's will that you came down with cancer and treating it to save your life goes against God's will. That's how damn stupid you sound to me when I hear a rant like this.

BTW I am a Republican conservative woman.

People like this in which you refer to, use God in their own ways and upon their own terms, instead of God using them in his way in which is rightfully so. Beware of devils who act Godly and invoke God's name to empower their words, where as they think that we are dum enough not to see this, but we know them when they do this, just as others should know them as well when they do this.

Wanna try that in English?

If you can't understand what I was saying, then there is no need in conversating with you at all...sorry.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We all have a right to life, even if you don't believe that rights come from the government the right to life is written into the constitution.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

If the purpose of government is to protect the rights of those who cannot defend themselves because no one is less capable of defending their rights than an unborn child. Rape is a horrific crime, we all know that, but it does not justify anyone taking away the rights of an innocent person.

There is nothing that boils my blood more than a man, ( I am assuming that you are a man) telling a woman anything that relates to her body. Men are rarely victims of rape or incest and I have yet to see a man pregnant and deliver a baby. I am a pro-life conservative, but I would not ever force a woman who had been raped to re-live that nightmare for nine months or the rest of her life. Nor would I ever stand for a man telling her to do so. You men lose the Republican women's vote anytime you talk about it. I am pro-life but I absolutely make the 3 exceptions, for rape, incest and the life of the mother.

There are some MEN who have even stated that they would not consider the life of the mother. I want to ask you this, are you going to be willing to raise and nuture the 3 kids she has at home when she dies giving birth to her 4th child? Are you going to be the one who has tell the 3 that she left behind that this was god's will. If this is your stand, I don't want to see you going for cancer treatment or anything else as it was God's will that you came down with cancer and treating it to save your life goes against God's will. That's how damn stupid you sound to me when I hear a rant like this.

BTW I am a Republican conservative woman.

Please, feel free to point out where I said anything like what you just says boils your blood. You should stop projecting your hangups on other people and start actually dealing with what I am saying.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I would love to see the pro lifers prove how much they care about children by adopting one. But they won't.

Why don't you challenge Michele Bachmann to prove she cares about children?

Better yet, why don't you start actually talking about the issues I raised in the OP?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How to end abortion? Its not possible. Banning abortion will still mean people will have abortions, they will just go underground - which I think is what the lifers would prefer. We can lower the abortion rate by starting sex education in schools early on, and do what the Netherlands does. They have an extremely low rate of teen births because they have been educated on safe sex, yet conservatives think that the way to prevent teen pregnancy is to tell them not to have sex.

I think we should ask Bristol Palin how well that works.

Can you prove that the reason the Netherlands has a low abortion rate is because of sex education? Of course you can't, so why make the argument in the first place? Is it possible you have an agenda that somehow justifies you making statements you know to be false?

Hmm, lets see...

Holland starts sex education at a young age. Parents are happy to have their teenager share the same room as their partners. They are open and honest with their kids. They are taught about contraception. As a result, they have a very low rate of teen births.

In America, parents don't want their kids to learn sex education. Abstinence only education is pushed upon children. Parents - especially the religious freaks - are not as open and honest with their kids about contraception.
As a result, the rate of teen births is sky high.

Only an idiot would believe that the American approach is working.

None of that actually constitutes proof.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Your opinion doesn't translate into facts. Nor does your faith...

Are you saying I am wrong that we all breathe? Do you have any evidence to prove we don't?

Look up the definition of the word 'soul' then get back to me..

I prefer the biblical definition, which is the entire self. Come to think of it, that is one of the definitions that you will find in the dictionary.