Rational discourse on gun control

[jon_berzerk]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

While I am 100% pro-gun ownership, I don't agree with the stance that you shouldn't do a background check on close relatives receiving your guns, or giving your friend a gun temporarily. There have been instances where friends have borrowed guns, committed crimes with them and returned them to the owner. Close relatives may also have a mental illness or criminal past and if they are in line to inherit the weapons, they need to be checked out to ensure they are not someone who would not otherwise be eligible for one.

So....you need to get a background check with your friend at the range .....hey, let me shoot that pistol...see if I like it....sorry, we have to pay 25 dollars or more and wait 3 days to get your background check done....you mean like that?

I'm not referring to a situation whereby you are at a firing range with a friend. I'm referring to a friend coming to your home and asking to borrow your gun (saying he/she wants to do a little solitary plunking or range activity).

you should know your friend well enough to know if you should borrow them a firearm or not

A lot of people think they know their friends well, however, that's not always the case.

then they should not lend their guns out to them

 

[OldLady]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

A nice idea, but the problem with that is every time we give concessions to the anti-gun crowd, they use it as as stepping stone to more anti-gun laws.

Example, I've asked several anti-gun proponents on 3 different political forums "If we passed Obama's 2013 gun control, would you be satisfied that our nation has sufficient gun control laws and never, ever ask for additional gun legislation?" None of them ever replied much less reply in the affirmative. The silent point was that, no, they wouldn't be satisfied.

Considering how impossible it has been for the federal government to pass any gun control legislation, even after Sandy Hook, I don't understand why you folks are so concerned about that.

 

[Conservative65]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

 

[OldLady]

Again,

Law abiding people will pay and have the transfers done legally.

It will add to the cost and inconvenience of what should otherwise be a transaction the government has no right to interfere with.

Those who are willing TO COMMIT MURDER will not abide by the law. If they have to kill the potential seller to avoid the BG check they will do so.

There would be less guns floating around for criminals to buy/steal if transfers were done legally. The only way to enforce legal transfers is to hold the last legal owner responsible for any crime committed with the weapon. It is a small cost and very minor inconvenience, since there are gun stores in the tiniest towns that can do the checks. The cost can be added to the price of the gun.

 

[OldLady]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

I already told you that most of those guns reported as "stolen," probably weren't, since they weren't reported to the police.

 

[Conservative65]

For those of you who seek additional restrictions on the 2nd Amendment rights of the law abiding, I challenge you to a rational discourse on the issue.

To this end, please...
1: State the gun control law you seek (You probably should limit this to just one)
2: Define the problem you seek to correct with this law
3: Demonstrate that this law will indeed correct the problem you define.
4: Explain how, under current jurisprudence, this law does not create an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms
5: Do not resort to fallacious appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty (Fallacies, after all, are irrational)

Please begin

1. The ban on the sale, manufacture, importation, distribution and possession of weapons with a semi-automatic firing system and the ability to be fitted with a magazine containing greater than ten rounds.

2. Drive by shootings, mass shootings. At least let's lower the body count.

3. Criminals are not going to mass produce their own arsenal of such weaponry. Criminals are not going to convert other weapons to serve their purpose. Gang shootings, inner city shootings particularly will be reduced.

4. Your right to bear arms would not be infringed. You can still own all the bolt action rifles, shot guns and revolvers you want. You can still bear arms.

Now, I know that gun lovers will disagree. But what gun lover actually needs a semi-automatic weapon?

Who the fuck are you to determine what anyone but yourself needs? That's the problem. You insert yourself in a manner in which you have absolutely no business. Not your place to determine for me unless you're able to take from me what you say I shouldn't have.

 

[OldLady]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

It is to reduce the # of illegally owned guns on the street. Less sold to unvetted buyers, less to sell to a thug.

 

[Conservative65]

Again,

Law abiding people will pay and have the transfers done legally.

It will add to the cost and inconvenience of what should otherwise be a transaction the government has no right to interfere with.

Those who are willing TO COMMIT MURDER will not abide by the law. If they have to kill the potential seller to avoid the BG check they will do so.

There would be less guns floating around for criminals to buy/steal if transfers were done legally. The only way to enforce legal transfers is to hold the last legal owner responsible for any crime committed with the weapon. It is a small cost and very minor inconvenience, since there are gun stores in the tiniest towns that can do the checks. The cost can be added to the price of the gun.

Legal transfers like you suggest aren't going to change the number of guns around.

"It's a small cost and a very minor inconvenience". That's what I say about voter ID. Funny how that argument is wrong when it comes to proving you are who you say you are but perfectly OK to the very people that want to infringe on a right in the 2nd amendment.

 

[Conservative65]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

It is to reduce the # of illegally owned guns on the street. Less sold to unvetted buyers, less to sell to a thug.

What background check will the criminal that stole my gun go through?

 

[Conservative65]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

I already told you that most of those guns reported as "stolen," probably weren't, since they weren't reported to the police.

I already told you that your reasoning behind your statement is false. You say they really weren't stolen because, in your simply mind, you can't fathom why someone wouldn't do something the way you would do it.

Some dumbass in my neighborhood dented the door of my wife's car that was facing the sidewalk. I have an idea who it is but can't prove it. That means I get to pay to have it fixed. Should I file it on insurance?

 

[OldLady]

Again,

Law abiding people will pay and have the transfers done legally.

It will add to the cost and inconvenience of what should otherwise be a transaction the government has no right to interfere with.

Those who are willing TO COMMIT MURDER will not abide by the law. If they have to kill the potential seller to avoid the BG check they will do so.

There would be less guns floating around for criminals to buy/steal if transfers were done legally. The only way to enforce legal transfers is to hold the last legal owner responsible for any crime committed with the weapon. It is a small cost and very minor inconvenience, since there are gun stores in the tiniest towns that can do the checks. The cost can be added to the price of the gun.

Legal transfers like you suggest aren't going to change the number of guns around.

"It's a small cost and a very minor inconvenience". That's what I say about voter ID. Funny how that argument is wrong when it comes to proving you are who you say you are but perfectly OK to the very people that want to infringe on a right in the 2nd amendment.

I'm not sure voting and having a background check when purchasing an optional firearm are the same thing. I have nothing against voter ID as long as it is reasonably inexpensive. I believe around here a background check costs less than a birth certificate in many states.

 

[OldLady]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

I already told you that most of those guns reported as "stolen," probably weren't, since they weren't reported to the police.

I already told you that your reasoning behind your statement is false. You say they really weren't stolen because, in your simply mind, you can't fathom why someone wouldn't do something the way you would do it.

Some dumbass in my neighborhood dented the door of my wife's car that was facing the sidewalk. I have an idea who it is but can't prove it. That means I get to pay to have it fixed. Should I file it on insurance?

Why wouldn't you report a stolen weapon? If you think my reasoning is false, I wish you would explain where I'm going wrong.

 

[OldLady]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

It is to reduce the # of illegally owned guns on the street. Less sold to unvetted buyers, less to sell to a thug.

What background check will the criminal that stole my gun go through?

If you report the gun stolen, it is no longer your responsibility.

 

[Conservative65]

Again,

Law abiding people will pay and have the transfers done legally.

It will add to the cost and inconvenience of what should otherwise be a transaction the government has no right to interfere with.

Those who are willing TO COMMIT MURDER will not abide by the law. If they have to kill the potential seller to avoid the BG check they will do so.

There would be less guns floating around for criminals to buy/steal if transfers were done legally. The only way to enforce legal transfers is to hold the last legal owner responsible for any crime committed with the weapon. It is a small cost and very minor inconvenience, since there are gun stores in the tiniest towns that can do the checks. The cost can be added to the price of the gun.

Legal transfers like you suggest aren't going to change the number of guns around.

"It's a small cost and a very minor inconvenience". That's what I say about voter ID. Funny how that argument is wrong when it comes to proving you are who you say you are but perfectly OK to the very people that want to infringe on a right in the 2nd amendment.

I'm not sure voting and having a background check when purchasing an optional firearm are the same thing. I have nothing against voter ID as long as it is reasonably inexpensive. I believe around here a background check costs less than a birth certificate in many states.

Define reasonable. That's the problem, again, with your kind. You make statements like "reasonable", "common sense", etc. then want to be the ones to define them.

Free voter IDs were offered and Liberals still opposed it oftentimes equating it to a poll tax.

 

[Conservative65]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

I already told you that most of those guns reported as "stolen," probably weren't, since they weren't reported to the police.

I already told you that your reasoning behind your statement is false. You say they really weren't stolen because, in your simply mind, you can't fathom why someone wouldn't do something the way you would do it.

Some dumbass in my neighborhood dented the door of my wife's car that was facing the sidewalk. I have an idea who it is but can't prove it. That means I get to pay to have it fixed. Should I file it on insurance?

Why wouldn't you report a stolen weapon? If you think my reasoning is false, I wish you would explain where I'm going wrong.

Your reasoning is wrong because you base it on how YOU would do something. In other words, if you would do it a certain way, you think everyone should do it that way.

It boils down to it's NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS what I do privately. You Liberals don't want anyone telling a woman what to do with her body but you think it's OK to dictate what I do in my private life.

You never said whether or not I should file my insurance?

 

[Conservative65]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

It is to reduce the # of illegally owned guns on the street. Less sold to unvetted buyers, less to sell to a thug.

What background check will the criminal that stole my gun go through?

If you report the gun stolen, it is no longer your responsibility.

Again, NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS. Last time I looked, I don't have to do things the way you would do it nor am I wrong if I don't.

You still haven't answered what background check a criminal will go through that stole my gun.

I've had Christmas, Halloween, and Easter decorations stolen or vandalized from or in my yard. Should I report all of them?

 

[Conservative65]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

It is to reduce the # of illegally owned guns on the street. Less sold to unvetted buyers, less to sell to a thug.

What background check will the criminal that stole my gun go through?

If you report the gun stolen, it is no longer your responsibility.

If I don't, it's still not my responsibility if I don't misuse the gun.

 

[OldLady]

Again,

Law abiding people will pay and have the transfers done legally.

It will add to the cost and inconvenience of what should otherwise be a transaction the government has no right to interfere with.

Those who are willing TO COMMIT MURDER will not abide by the law. If they have to kill the potential seller to avoid the BG check they will do so.

There would be less guns floating around for criminals to buy/steal if transfers were done legally. The only way to enforce legal transfers is to hold the last legal owner responsible for any crime committed with the weapon. It is a small cost and very minor inconvenience, since there are gun stores in the tiniest towns that can do the checks. The cost can be added to the price of the gun.

Legal transfers like you suggest aren't going to change the number of guns around.

"It's a small cost and a very minor inconvenience". That's what I say about voter ID. Funny how that argument is wrong when it comes to proving you are who you say you are but perfectly OK to the very people that want to infringe on a right in the 2nd amendment.

I'm not sure voting and having a background check when purchasing an optional firearm are the same thing. I have nothing against voter ID as long as it is reasonably inexpensive. I believe around here a background check costs less than a birth certificate in many states.

Define reasonable. That's the problem, again, with your kind. You make statements like "reasonable", "common sense", etc. then want to be the ones to define them.

Free voter IDs were offered and Liberals still opposed it oftentimes equating it to a poll tax.

How could it be a "tax" if it were free? I would be 100% behind such a suggestion. I have nothing against Voter ID. However, households living in real poverty and on welfare benefits can't free up $90 or $100; their budgets are too tight.

 

[OldLady]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Yet you still can't tell me what type of background check the person that stole my gun will go through for possessing that gun.

Until that criminal goes through a background check, expecting those of us that have never committed a crime to go through one so you can feel better is a problem. I'm not jumping through you damn hoops so you can say you did something to make yourself feel better.

It is to reduce the # of illegally owned guns on the street. Less sold to unvetted buyers, less to sell to a thug.

What background check will the criminal that stole my gun go through?

If you report the gun stolen, it is no longer your responsibility.

Again, NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS. Last time I looked, I don't have to do things the way you would do it nor am I wrong if I don't.

You still haven't answered what background check a criminal will go through that stole my gun.

I've had Christmas, Halloween, and Easter decorations stolen or vandalized from or in my yard. Should I report all of them?

I have never heard of a light up Santa killing anyone. You must live in a nasty neighborhood.

I kind of like your reply here. "It's none of your fucking business." Gee, what a rock solid answer to a straightforward question. I'm going to use it anytime I haven't got an answer.

 

[Rustic]

Universal background checks anytime a gun is transferred (excepting close family members or lending a gun for a short time to a friend). This would not violate any law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Too many guns are being transferred without proper caution to people who should not have one, either at gun shows or through casual sales. There are gun stores everywhere that can, for a small fee, run a background check for anyone interested in buying a gun. This will not be a problem for law abiding citizens.

Enforce the current laws, new laws are a foolish waste of time and money…