Re-Evaluating Newt..

[SAT]

Uh, once again, you get your facts wrong... and wonder why you are a joke. Operation Desert Fox was NOT just an attack on one factory. It was a widescale attack on hundreds of Iraqi facilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_(December_1998)

You are probably thinking of Operation Infinite Reach, which was an attack on Sudan and Afghanistan...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Afghanistan_and_Sudan_(August_1998)

I know, it's tough. So many half-ass, ill thought out bombing raids to distract from his piccadillos, it's hard to keep track.

You've been mistaken about your facts several times, and my interest was in getting you to absorb the facts, not in waving my hands around so people would notice me. Give it a try sometime.

Clarke was part of the Administration that thought issuing an indictment for Bin Laden was calling it a day... He also tried to claim that Condi Rice didn't know who Bin Laden was, until they dug up a bunch of interviews that indicated she clearly did.

Uh, no. Clinton tried numerous times to get bin Laden, and Clarke was trying desperately to get the Bush administration to listen when 9/11 happened.

And oddly enough, the Democrats never impeached anyone for that when they got control of Congress. In fact, Bush flipped them off and said, "Screw you, I'll escalating the war!" and they ran off like whipped dogs... Hilarious.

True. The nation lacked the political will to impeach Bush. They just waited him out. The Congress should have been more dedicated to telling the truth instead of worrying about polls and about media spin about their motives.

I'm interested to see you think that escalating a war is a political game.

What specific reasons are those? Frankly, all I see is that you guys are made these men made it without the welfare state or the pity party...

Thomas' far right extremism, his conflict of interest because of his wife's employment, his failure to disclose her income for several years, his private speaking engagements to far right groups, and his sexual harassment of Anita Hill.

Cain's disrespect of black voters, his lack of knowledge of foreign policy, his crazy 9-9-9 plan.

You know what else you didn't have at the TEA Party rallies. The police didn't have to come in and arrest anyone. People weren't defecating in the street and littering the place. They cleaned up after themselves and left peacefully after they had made their point.

Unlike these dirty, filthy OWS people, who are now hoping for a "Kent State" moment to bolster their cause.

They didn't have the police harassing people at the Tea Parties.

Your allegation about Kent State moments is hyperbolic, ahistorical, and stupid.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, right. Because clearly, none of these guys who had been around Washington longer than Bush had knew anyone over at the CIA or Pentagon. Because they hadn't been looking at the same intelligence in the 1990's that said the same things.

Reality check, guy. The Democrats went along with the war because most of the country was in a mood to kill someone in 2003, and they didn't much care who. Then like naughty children who had too much candy, they looked for someone else to blame.

I believe I said the same thing a few posts back. Yes, Democrats failed in their duty. So did the media. They are guilty of insufficient diligence. The Bush administration is guilty of actually pushing the war. You know, sins of omission and sins of commission.

The nation had a lot of questions about Iraq, and was willing to wait for inspections. Bush wasn't.

Get fuckin' real. We had been waiting for inspections for 11 years. Come on. 11 years since the Gulf war, and we were still "inspecting". Seriously?

A dictator who wasn't a threat to us, hadn't caused us any problems, and who was actually co-operating with us at that point. And all he had to do was let power go to some crazy Islamists who are already sizing everyone up for Burhkas...

Yes, and then his people rose up. Unlike the people of Iraq. They asked for UN help. Unlike the people of Iraq. They overthrew a dictator with limited help from the outside world. Unlike the war in Iraq.
They may choose badly in their new leader, but they are at least off to a good start.

Not really. Do you notice something about the history of Revolutions. France. Russia, Iran, Cuba? They almost always make things worse, not better.

In ten years, we will be sending in troops because the people Obama helped will be killing innocents...

 

[francoHFW]

#302- The sky is falling? Do you see all revolutions from the point of view of aristocrats and despots? The great majority in those countries disagree with your view...much of their problems came from counter revolutionary efforts from anglosaxon savage capitalists (UK and US).

 

[SAT]

Get fuckin' real. We had been waiting for inspections for 11 years. Come on. 11 years since the Gulf war, and we were still "inspecting". Seriously?

No, we hadn't. Saddam let the inspectors in.

You prefer 5,000 Americans dead, dead Iraqis, wounded Americans, fractured families, and all that money spent to having inspections and containment?

Not really. Do you notice something about the history of Revolutions. France. Russia, Iran, Cuba? They almost always make things worse, not better.

That's an oversimplification. They overthrew a dictator. Did you want us to support him?

In ten years, we will be sending in troops because the people Obama helped will be killing innocents...

Do they sell concessions in that theater in your head?

 

[JoeB131]

You've been mistaken about your facts several times, and my interest was in getting you to absorb the facts, not in waving my hands around so people would notice me. Give it a try sometime.

I lost interest about two days ago in this thread. You're the one keeping it going with misinformation and your profound ignorance.

Uh, no. Clinton tried numerous times to get bin Laden, and Clarke was trying desperately to get the Bush administration to listen when 9/11 happened.

The only think Clarke was desperately trying to get was a promotion.

True. The nation lacked the political will to impeach Bush. They just waited him out. The Congress should have been more dedicated to telling the truth instead of worrying about polls and about media spin about their motives.

You do realize we are talking about politicians here, right?

I'm interested to see you think that escalating a war is a political game.

No more than oppossing a war you initially supported as a political game. Tell me, of the 27 Democrat Senators who voted for the war, how many did you all vote out? Oh, that's right. None. Not even Joe Leiberman. You did vote out Linc Chafee, who was the only Republican to oppose the war, though.

Thomas' far right extremism, his conflict of interest because of his wife's employment, his failure to disclose her income for several years, his private speaking engagements to far right groups, and his sexual harassment of Anita Hill.

Cain's disrespect of black voters, his lack of knowledge of foreign policy, his crazy 9-9-9 plan.

Oh, I see, stuff that upset you because they didn't play the game your way. Nothing of substance. Got it.

They didn't have the police harassing people at the Tea Parties.

Your allegation about Kent State moments is hyperbolic, ahistorical, and stupid.

Oh, they're just provoking the cops hoping for that stuff to go down.

Frankly, I'm all for it, will just make it easier for the Republicans to win.

 

[JoeB131]

Get fuckin' real. We had been waiting for inspections for 11 years. Come on. 11 years since the Gulf war, and we were still "inspecting". Seriously?

No, we hadn't. Saddam let the inspectors in.

You prefer 5,000 Americans dead, dead Iraqis, wounded Americans, fractured families, and all that money spent to having inspections and containment?

I prefer actually getting the job done, yeah...

Not really. Do you notice something about the history of Revolutions. France. Russia, Iran, Cuba? They almost always make things worse, not better.

That's an oversimplification. They overthrew a dictator. Did you want us to support him?

I would it was none of our fucking business and we don't get involved.

This "Islamic Spring" is going to be the worst thing for the West since the rise of fascism.

 

[SAT]

I lost interest about two days ago in this thread. You're the one keeping it going with misinformation and your profound ignorance.

That shoe would be on your foot.

The only think Clarke was desperately trying to get was a promotion.

The man was right, and you're too busy defending the indefensible you can't even give him credit for it.

You do realize we are talking about politicians here, right?

Point taken.

No more than oppossing a war you initially supported as a political game. Tell me, of the 27 Democrat Senators who voted for the war, how many did you all vote out? Oh, that's right. None. Not even Joe Leiberman. You did vote out Linc Chafee, who was the only Republican to oppose the war, though.

Boy, did I screw up. I didn't realize I could vote for all the Senators.

Oh, I see, stuff that upset you because they didn't play the game your way. Nothing of substance. Got it.

And now you're in denial.

Frankly, I'm all for it, will just make it easier for the Republicans to win.

Time will tell.

 

[JoeB131]

The man was right, and you're too busy defending the indefensible you can't even give him credit for it.

The only thing that was indefensible was Clinton's total sloth on the Bin Laden problem. If he didn't need a distraction, he didn't give a shit.

Boy, did I screw up. I didn't realize I could vote for all the Senators.

Not even a good dodge. Answer the question- why didn't your side hold ONE Senator accountable for voting for the war on your own side?

And now you're in denial.

Okay, make it easy for you. Explain why I should give a shit about any of it?

 

[SAT]

The only thing that was indefensible was Clinton's total sloth on the Bin Laden problem. If he didn't need a distraction, he didn't give a shit.

This is a baseless claim, to distract from my point about Clarke.

Not even a good dodge. Answer the question- why didn't your side hold ONE Senator accountable for voting for the war on your own side?

It's a good response to a really ridiculous comment. You seem to be holding me personally accountable for how all Democrats voted. Are you crazy? Desperate? What?

Okay, make it easy for you. Explain why I should give a shit about any of it?

Because you understand the basic nature of the nation that you live in.

 

[zonly1]

The famous sixteen words were taken out of the SOTU address Bush gave because the intell to back it up was not there. The Bush administration put them back in.

The famous 16 words were correct. The British did have evidence the Iraqis were trying to buy uranium. MI-6 stood by that statement. So it was an accurate statement. they didn't get it, but they asked for it.

Look, guy, George Tenat went into Bush's office and said "It's a slam dunk, Mr. President!"

Joe Wilson wrote in the LA Times that no only did Saddam have WMD's, but we needed to give him a graceful way out because he'd use them.

This is a lot of people playing CYA when something goes wrong. If you had a real job, you see it happens every day in the business world, who ends up holding the bag of dog poop.

Wow, you have totally drank the kool-aid. Next, you're gonna tell us that Saddam was behind 9/11.

Myself. Saddam was a scumbag and I'm glad he's dead. Aren't you?

Not at the cost of over $1 Trillion and over 5,000 U.S. military deaths. HELL NO!!!!

I believe we lost that many to the days leading to D-day and at D-day. Back then it was a united country ..today is weaker because of the self righteous press of Vietnam, Korea and relive a past

 

[JoeB131]

The only thing that was indefensible was Clinton's total sloth on the Bin Laden problem. If he didn't need a distraction, he didn't give a shit.

This is a baseless claim, to distract from my point about Clarke.

No, it's a dead on claim. He bombed the Aspirin factory in 1998 (which turned out to have nothing to do with Bin Laden) the week he revealed he had been lying to us for eight months about Lewinsky. Then he never, ever mentioned it again. Then Clarke, whom NON ONE EVER HEARD OF pops out of the woodwork and says, "I told Condi about Bin Laden, and she looked at me funny", when in fact, there are numerous taped interviews where it was clear Condi knew all about Bin Laden.

So Clarke did really nothing under Clinton, and whined that he didn't get a promotion after Bush took over.

Not even a good dodge. Answer the question- why didn't your side hold ONE Senator accountable for voting for the war on your own side?

It's a good response to a really ridiculous comment. You seem to be holding me personally accountable for how all Democrats voted. Are you crazy? Desperate? What?

No, it's not. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your party colletively, not you personally. Collectively, your party nominated Kerry in 2004 because he voted for the war, and in 2006, you didn't vote out one Senator who had voted for it. Not one. You did try to go after poor Joe Leiberman because he ignored the "War Bad Now" memo. But even managed to survive as an independent.

Okay, make it easy for you. Explain why I should give a shit about any of it?

Because you understand the basic nature of the nation that you live in.

I do understand it. We have one party that does the bidding of the rich, and another one that is trying to make as many of us dependent on the government as humanly possible. So it's really a case of "choose your serfdom".

What nation do you think we live in?

 

[Amelia]

By far the best debater and most informed candidate and could easily kick Obama's ass in a debate...

Turned Clinton from a deficit spending President in a fortunate economy to a budget surplus and Democrat pro-sexual harassment hero..

Soo.. what's your beef with this Guy...?

Okay, Lumpy, I'm ready now. I'm ready to start listening to what people have to say good for the guy.

Has anyone been saying anything good about him? More specific than how smart he is? I haven't been paying attention to the whole thread. Lotsa noise in it. But if you have, could you summarize the high points?

What does Newt plan for the nation starting in 2013?

I'm ready to listen!

 

[Lumpy 1]

By far the best debater and most informed candidate and could easily kick Obama's ass in a debate...

Turned Clinton from a deficit spending President in a fortunate economy to a budget surplus and Democrat pro-sexual harassment hero..

Soo.. what's your beef with this Guy...?

Okay, Lumpy, I'm ready now. I'm ready to start listening to what people have to say good for the guy.

Has anyone been saying anything good about him? More specific than how smart he is? I haven't been paying attention to the whole thread. Lotsa noise in it. But if you have, could you summarize the high points?

What does Newt plan for the nation starting in 2013?

I'm ready to listen!

I was kinda asking for the beefs, there's beefs a plenty...

I haven't read the whole thread. I did notice a theme of whining about his marital problems which seems odd to me coming from liberals. They seem to want to keep Republicans on a moral pedestal so that they can simultaneously tear it down.

I think Democrats have been successful in down grading religious faith and morals down to a bigots paradise. They use religion as a weapon..it just not appropriate..

Sorry I can't summarize the high points ...Sharks & NY Islanders starts in 15 minutes..

 

[SAT]

The only thing that was indefensible was Clinton's total sloth on the Bin Laden problem. If he didn't need a distraction, he didn't give a shit.

This is a baseless claim, to distract from my point about Clarke.

No, it's a dead on claim. He bombed the Aspirin factory in 1998 (which turned out to have nothing to do with Bin Laden) the week he revealed he had been lying to us for eight months about Lewinsky. Then he never, ever mentioned it again. Then Clarke, whom NON ONE EVER HEARD OF pops out of the woodwork and says, "I told Condi about Bin Laden, and she looked at me funny", when in fact, there are numerous taped interviews where it was clear Condi knew all about Bin Laden.

You never heard of Clarke, but that's because you're not particularly well informed.

There's a record of Clarke attempting to get the Bushies to pay attention to bin Laden. They held a meeting, FINALLY, shortly before 9/11. Bush received a memo shortly before 9/11 called

Transcript: Bin Laden determined to strike in US - CNN

No, it's not. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your party colletively, not you personally. Collectively, your party nominated Kerry in 2004 because he voted for the war, and in 2006, you didn't vote out one Senator who had voted for it. Not one. You did try to go after poor Joe Leiberman because he ignored the "War Bad Now" memo. But even managed to survive as an independent.

We nominated Kerry because he voted for the war?

Okay, make it easy for you. Explain why I should give a shit about any of it?

Because you understand the basic nature of the nation that you live in.

I do understand it. We have one party that does the bidding of the rich, and another one that is trying to make as many of us dependent on the government as humanly possible. So it's really a case of "choose your serfdom".

What nation do you think we live in?

I live in America. A place with freedom of speech, and that freedom of speech has helped to secure your liberty.

 

[The T]

By far the best debater and most informed candidate and could easily kick Obama's ass in a debate...

Turned Clinton from a deficit spending President in a fortunate economy to a budget surplus and Democrat pro-sexual harassment hero..

Soo.. what's your beef with this Guy...?

Okay, Lumpy, I'm ready now. I'm ready to start listening to what people have to say good for the guy.

Has anyone been saying anything good about him? More specific than how smart he is? I haven't been paying attention to the whole thread. Lotsa noise in it. But if you have, could you summarize the high points?

What does Newt plan for the nation starting in 2013?

I'm ready to listen!

I was kinda asking for the beefs, there's beefs a plenty...

I haven't read the whole thread. I did notice a theme of whining about his marital problems which seems odd to me coming from liberals. They seem to want to keep Republicans on a moral pedestal so that they can simultaneously tear it down.

I think Democrats have been successful in down grading religious faith and morals down to a bigots paradise. They use religion as a weapon..it just not appropriate..

Sorry I can't summarize the high points ...Sharks & NY Islanders starts in 15 minutes..

See what your thread has become my friend Lumpster?

 

[JoeB131]

You never heard of Clarke, but that's because you're not particularly well informed.

There's a record of Clarke attempting to get the Bushies to pay attention to bin Laden. They held a meeting, FINALLY, shortly before 9/11. Bush received a memo shortly before 9/11 called

That would be the same memo that called a hijacking plot NOT credible. In fact, Bush rightfully said after that breifing that gave him no new information, "Well, you've covered your ass."

Clark was a non-entity in an administration that just saw terrorism as a way to take attention away from bimbo eruptions.

We nominated Kerry because he voted for the war?

Well, you could have nominated Howard Dean, who was against the war from the get-go. You didn't. Because you didn't want to appear weak. And you thought a manufactured war hero would give you credibility. Oh, wait. He got those purple hearts for minor injuries and then hung around with Jane Fonda after the war....OOOOOOOPS.

I live in America. A place with freedom of speech, and that freedom of speech has helped to secure your liberty.

The only thing that secures my liberty is that there are big, burley men with guns ready to do violence on my behalf--- to paraphrase George Orwell. The ability of liberal morons to say stupid things is just an annoyance.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Okay, Lumpy, I'm ready now. I'm ready to start listening to what people have to say good for the guy.

Has anyone been saying anything good about him? More specific than how smart he is? I haven't been paying attention to the whole thread. Lotsa noise in it. But if you have, could you summarize the high points?

What does Newt plan for the nation starting in 2013?

I'm ready to listen!

I was kinda asking for the beefs, there's beefs a plenty...

I haven't read the whole thread. I did notice a theme of whining about his marital problems which seems odd to me coming from liberals. They seem to want to keep Republicans on a moral pedestal so that they can simultaneously tear it down.

I think Democrats have been successful in down grading religious faith and morals down to a bigots paradise. They use religion as a weapon..it just not appropriate..

Sorry I can't summarize the high points ...Sharks & NY Islanders starts in 15 minutes..

See what your thread has become my friend Lumpster?

If I had more time I'd figure it out but I suspect hypocrisy and liberal forked tongue desperation played a large part...ole Buddy...

 

[SAT]

You never heard of Clarke, but that's because you're not particularly well informed.

There's a record of Clarke attempting to get the Bushies to pay attention to bin Laden. They held a meeting, FINALLY, shortly before 9/11. Bush received a memo shortly before 9/11 called

That would be the same memo that called a hijacking plot NOT credible. In fact, Bush rightfully said after that breifing that gave him no new information, "Well, you've covered your ass."

Clark was a non-entity in an administration that just saw terrorism as a way to take attention away from bimbo eruptions.

This is mind blowingly stupid. Do you remember 9/11? Do you grasp that Clarke and Clinton were right about bin Laden, and Bush and Condi were wrong?

We nominated Kerry because he voted for the war?

Well, you could have nominated Howard Dean, who was against the war from the get-go. You didn't. Because you didn't want to appear weak. And you thought a manufactured war hero would give you credibility. Oh, wait. He got those purple hearts for minor injuries and then hung around with Jane Fonda after the war....OOOOOOOPS.

We nominated him because we thought he had the best shot.

I live in America. A place with freedom of speech, and that freedom of speech has helped to secure your liberty.

The only thing that secures my liberty is that there are big, burley men with guns ready to do violence on my behalf--- to paraphrase George Orwell. The ability of liberal morons to say stupid things is just an annoyance.

Bullshit. Reality is over your head.

 

[Amelia]

By far the best debater and most informed candidate and could easily kick Obama's ass in a debate...

Turned Clinton from a deficit spending President in a fortunate economy to a budget surplus and Democrat pro-sexual harassment hero..

Soo.. what's your beef with this Guy...?

Okay, Lumpy, I'm ready now. I'm ready to start listening to what people have to say good for the guy.

Has anyone been saying anything good about him? More specific than how smart he is? I haven't been paying attention to the whole thread. Lotsa noise in it. But if you have, could you summarize the high points?

What does Newt plan for the nation starting in 2013?

I'm ready to listen!

I was kinda asking for the beefs, there's beefs a plenty...

I haven't read the whole thread. I did notice a theme of whining about his marital problems which seems odd to me coming from liberals. They seem to want to keep Republicans on a moral pedestal so that they can simultaneously tear it down.

I think Democrats have been successful in down grading religious faith and morals down to a bigots paradise. They use religion as a weapon..it just not appropriate..

Sorry I can't summarize the high points ...Sharks & NY Islanders starts in 15 minutes..

I started my own thread for high points instead of beefs.

But it was royally hijacked.



Hope it's a good game!

 

[The T]

I was kinda asking for the beefs, there's beefs a plenty...

I haven't read the whole thread. I did notice a theme of whining about his marital problems which seems odd to me coming from liberals. They seem to want to keep Republicans on a moral pedestal so that they can simultaneously tear it down.

I think Democrats have been successful in down grading religious faith and morals down to a bigots paradise. They use religion as a weapon..it just not appropriate..

Sorry I can't summarize the high points ...Sharks & NY Islanders starts in 15 minutes..

See what your thread has become my friend Lumpster?

If I had more time I'd figure it out but I suspect hypocrisy and liberal forked tongue desperation played a large part...ole Buddy...

Without a doubt my friend.