Ready to Beg Forgiveness...

[PoliticalChic]

Interesting word salad, or tap-dance, designed to cloud the issue.

How so? What have I said that is not true or clouds the issue?
True or False: The UE rate is intended and or publically touted by BLS as a measure of suffering or underemployment?

True or False: BLS does not publically disclose their methodology or defintions and/or lies about the definitions?

Both of those would have to be true for the OP to be correct.

While trying to do the opposite, you've essentially agreed that the article was correct.

No, I haven't.

The fixed numbers authored by Obama's BLS was for the low information voter who sees only the headline...

Now you're claiming they're fixed? How?
And how are they meant for people who only see the headline? Have you ever read the actual news release, not what the media feeds you? In no way could you claim the news release from BLS is in any way deceptive.
]

"And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today."
Census 8216 faked 8217 2012 election jobs report New York Post

A secret source...thats totally unbelieveable since the person he claims did it wasnt even an employee there.

"...the deception went beyond that one employee...":

Therefore....it doesn't end at "he,"....you dolt.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Conservatives are indeed the biggest victims on the planet.

Just ask them.

 

[Siete]

its all Obama's fault

 

[ClosedCaption]

How so? What have I said that is not true or clouds the issue?
True or False: The UE rate is intended and or publically touted by BLS as a measure of suffering or underemployment?

True or False: BLS does not publically disclose their methodology or defintions and/or lies about the definitions?

Both of those would have to be true for the OP to be correct.

While trying to do the opposite, you've essentially agreed that the article was correct.

No, I haven't.

The fixed numbers authored by Obama's BLS was for the low information voter who sees only the headline...

Now you're claiming they're fixed? How?
And how are they meant for people who only see the headline? Have you ever read the actual news release, not what the media feeds you? In no way could you claim the news release from BLS is in any way deceptive.
]

"And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today."
Census 8216 faked 8217 2012 election jobs report New York Post

A secret source...thats totally unbelieveable since the person he claims did it wasnt even an employee there.

"...the deception went beyond that one employee...":

Therefore....it doesn't end at "he,"....you dolt.

Except he cant identify who his source is that claims that. But his track record shows him to be a liar. There is no secret source no matter how much you want to believe it. All you have is the word of a proven liar

 

[pinqy]

Unemployment numbers is and has been a big lie. But let's not kid ourselves; both (major) parties know it's going on and do nothing about it.

Perhaps......

But there is this from the most corrupt administration in my time....

"1. "In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.

2. ...— from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated..... the Census Bureau, which does the unemployment survey, knew it.

3. .... two years before the presidential election, the Census Bureau had caught an employee fabricating data that went into the unemployment report, which is one of the most closely watched measures of the economy.

And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today."
Census 8216 faked 8217 2012 election jobs report New York Post



Do you have similar data for the other side?

INVESTIGATIVE REPORT U.S. Census Bureau Unsubstantiated Allegations that the Philadelphia Regional Office Manipulated the Unemployment Survey Leading up to the 2012 Presidential Election to Cause a Decrease in the National Unemployment Rate

I. Executive Summary

In October 2013, OIG received information alleging that management in the U.S. Census Bureau’s Philadelphia Regional Office instructed staff to falsify survey responses on the AHS and the CPS. Following this complaint, additional allegations were presented in various media publications, which reported widespread data falsification in the Census Bureau’s Philadelphia Regional Office.

OIG thoroughly investigated these allegations, and found no evidence that management in the Philadelphia Regional Office instructed staff to falsify data at any time for any reason. Further, we found no evidence of systemic data falsification in the Philadelphia Regional Office. Addressing allegations raised in the media, we found no evidence that the national unemployment rate was manipulated by staff in the Philadelphia Regional Office in the months leading up to the 2012 presidential election. To accomplish this, our analysis concluded that it would have taken 78 Census Bureau Field Representatives working together, in a coordinated way, to report each and every unemployed person included in their sample as "employed" or "not in labor force" during September 2012, an effort which likely would have been detected by the Census Bureau’s quality assurance procedures. Moreover, our analysis shows that the drop in the unemployment rate at that time is consistent with other indicators, including payroll estimates by Moody’s Analytics and Automatic Data Processing (ADP).

As part of our investigation, we reviewed the Census Bureau’s processes for identifying and taking action when data falsification is uncovered, and found that the quality assurance process in place creates the potential for conflicts of interest because the same supervisors who manage staff (and could direct the falsification of survey data) are responsible for reporting instances when their staff falsifies data. To remedy this situation, we recommend that the Census Bureau implement an independent system to check for falsification, similar to the one used during the Decennial Census. We also found that the CPS procedural manuals and training materials are outdated, inconsistent, and do not discuss prohibitions and serious consequences for falsifying survey data, and we recommend that they be corrected to include information about detecting and dealing with falsification when it occurs.

Our investigation also found that Census Bureau employees suspected of falsifying data are sometimes allowed to continue working while their surveys are being examined, in part due to advice from the Department’s Office of General Counsel. To avoid repeated falsification, we recommend that the Census Bureau implement a policy that prohibits employees suspected of falsification from collecting survey data while concerns about potential falsification are being examined. We also recommend that the Census Bureau implement a mechanism to communicate instances of data falsification with agencies on whose behalf surveys are being conducted.

What the OIG could only hint at, but could not say outright, and what I suspect to be true is that while the supervisors did not explicity tell anyone to falsify interviews, they probably did so broadly say "just get it done" that anyone would get the hint that they were to do whatever to get them done.

But that's not the same as actually falsifying the results, especially as that level of faking interviews would have little to no actual effect.

"I suspect to be true is that while the supervisors did not explicity tell anyone to falsify interviews,....
But that's not the same as actually falsifying the results,..."

Quibble.

Perhaps. But of legal importance. Only Buckmon and one other employee, out of dozens of others questioned, believed they were told to falsify data. Most employees took the supervisors to mean work harder and get them done.

 

[pinqy]

While trying to do the opposite, you've essentially agreed that the article was correct.

No, I haven't.

The fixed numbers authored by Obama's BLS was for the low information voter who sees only the headline...

Now you're claiming they're fixed? How?
And how are they meant for people who only see the headline? Have you ever read the actual news release, not what the media feeds you? In no way could you claim the news release from BLS is in any way deceptive.
]

"And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today."
Census 8216 faked 8217 2012 election jobs report New York Post

A secret source...thats totally unbelieveable since the person he claims did it wasnt even an employee there.

"...the deception went beyond that one employee...":

Therefore....it doesn't end at "he,"....you dolt.

Except he cant identify who his source is that claims that. But his track record shows him to be a liar. There is no secret source no matter how much you want to believe it. All you have is the word of a proven liar

No, there was someone else. Read the OIG report I linked to.

 

[ClosedCaption]

No, I haven't.

Now you're claiming they're fixed? How?
And how are they meant for people who only see the headline? Have you ever read the actual news release, not what the media feeds you? In no way could you claim the news release from BLS is in any way deceptive.
]

"And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today."
Census 8216 faked 8217 2012 election jobs report New York Post

A secret source...thats totally unbelieveable since the person he claims did it wasnt even an employee there.

"...the deception went beyond that one employee...":

Therefore....it doesn't end at "he,"....you dolt.

Except he cant identify who his source is that claims that. But his track record shows him to be a liar. There is no secret source no matter how much you want to believe it. All you have is the word of a proven liar

No, there was someone else. Read the OIG report I linked to.

Someone else? I'm looking specifically at the guy who reported it claiming a secret source told him after lying about the employee who manipulated the numbers

 

[PoliticalChic]

its all Obama's fault

No.....the fools who voted for him are to blame.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Unemployment numbers is and has been a big lie. But let's not kid ourselves; both (major) parties know it's going on and do nothing about it.

Perhaps......

But there is this from the most corrupt administration in my time....

"1. "In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.

2. ...— from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated..... the Census Bureau, which does the unemployment survey, knew it.

3. .... two years before the presidential election, the Census Bureau had caught an employee fabricating data that went into the unemployment report, which is one of the most closely watched measures of the economy.

And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today."
Census 8216 faked 8217 2012 election jobs report New York Post



Do you have similar data for the other side?

INVESTIGATIVE REPORT U.S. Census Bureau Unsubstantiated Allegations that the Philadelphia Regional Office Manipulated the Unemployment Survey Leading up to the 2012 Presidential Election to Cause a Decrease in the National Unemployment Rate

I. Executive Summary

In October 2013, OIG received information alleging that management in the U.S. Census Bureau’s Philadelphia Regional Office instructed staff to falsify survey responses on the AHS and the CPS. Following this complaint, additional allegations were presented in various media publications, which reported widespread data falsification in the Census Bureau’s Philadelphia Regional Office.

OIG thoroughly investigated these allegations, and found no evidence that management in the Philadelphia Regional Office instructed staff to falsify data at any time for any reason. Further, we found no evidence of systemic data falsification in the Philadelphia Regional Office. Addressing allegations raised in the media, we found no evidence that the national unemployment rate was manipulated by staff in the Philadelphia Regional Office in the months leading up to the 2012 presidential election. To accomplish this, our analysis concluded that it would have taken 78 Census Bureau Field Representatives working together, in a coordinated way, to report each and every unemployed person included in their sample as "employed" or "not in labor force" during September 2012, an effort which likely would have been detected by the Census Bureau’s quality assurance procedures. Moreover, our analysis shows that the drop in the unemployment rate at that time is consistent with other indicators, including payroll estimates by Moody’s Analytics and Automatic Data Processing (ADP).

As part of our investigation, we reviewed the Census Bureau’s processes for identifying and taking action when data falsification is uncovered, and found that the quality assurance process in place creates the potential for conflicts of interest because the same supervisors who manage staff (and could direct the falsification of survey data) are responsible for reporting instances when their staff falsifies data. To remedy this situation, we recommend that the Census Bureau implement an independent system to check for falsification, similar to the one used during the Decennial Census. We also found that the CPS procedural manuals and training materials are outdated, inconsistent, and do not discuss prohibitions and serious consequences for falsifying survey data, and we recommend that they be corrected to include information about detecting and dealing with falsification when it occurs.

Our investigation also found that Census Bureau employees suspected of falsifying data are sometimes allowed to continue working while their surveys are being examined, in part due to advice from the Department’s Office of General Counsel. To avoid repeated falsification, we recommend that the Census Bureau implement a policy that prohibits employees suspected of falsification from collecting survey data while concerns about potential falsification are being examined. We also recommend that the Census Bureau implement a mechanism to communicate instances of data falsification with agencies on whose behalf surveys are being conducted.

What the OIG could only hint at, but could not say outright, and what I suspect to be true is that while the supervisors did not explicity tell anyone to falsify interviews, they probably did so broadly say "just get it done" that anyone would get the hint that they were to do whatever to get them done.

But that's not the same as actually falsifying the results, especially as that level of faking interviews would have little to no actual effect.

"I suspect to be true is that while the supervisors did not explicity tell anyone to falsify interviews,....
But that's not the same as actually falsifying the results,..."

Quibble.

Perhaps. But of legal importance. Only Buckmon and one other employee, out of dozens of others questioned, believed they were told to falsify data. Most employees took the supervisors to mean work harder and get them done.

But this is not a court of law.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

...you Liberals????




1. "The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment

2. ... many Americans -- including some of the smartest and most educated among us -- don't know: The official unemployment rate, as reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, is extremely misleading..

3. ...much celebrating from the media, the White House and Wall Street about how unemployment is "down" to 5.6%. The cheerleading for this number is deafening.

4. ....anyone is unemployed and has subsequently given up on finding a job -- if you are so hopelessly out of work that you've stopped looking over the past four weeks -- the Department of Labor doesn't count you as unemployed.

5. ....unemployed as one can possibly be, and tragically may never find work again, you are not counted in the figure we see relentlessly in the news -- currently 5.6%. Right now, as many as 30 million Americans are either out of work or severely underemployed.

6. -- maybe someone pays you to mow their lawn -- you're not officially counted as unemployed in the much-reported 5.6%. Few Americans know this.




7. The official unemployment rate, which cruelly overlooks the suffering of the long-term and often permanently unemployed as well as the depressingly underemployed, amounts to a Big Lie.

8. ...a lie that has consequences, because the great American dream is to have a good job, and in recent years, America has failed to deliver that dream more than it has at any time in recent memory.

9. ....quit wondering what hollowed out the middle class."
The Big Lie 5.6 Unemployment



On your knees, Liberals.
You did this to America.

Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... the Fundamental Elements of Socialism.

 

[Camp]

How do all the folks who work 'under the table' get counted on those unemployment numbers? There are a lot of them. They don't register anywhere and don't pay taxes. Some people who collect unemployment do this also. Seems like maybe for as many folks who should be added to the number of unemployed there are also ones who should be removed.

 

[boilermaker55]

You just summed up what corporations have been doing for centuries.

...you Liberals????




1. "The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment

2. ... many Americans -- including some of the smartest and most educated among us -- don't know: The official unemployment rate, as reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, is extremely misleading..

3. ...much celebrating from the media, the White House and Wall Street about how unemployment is "down" to 5.6%. The cheerleading for this number is deafening.

4. ....anyone is unemployed and has subsequently given up on finding a job -- if you are so hopelessly out of work that you've stopped looking over the past four weeks -- the Department of Labor doesn't count you as unemployed.

5. ....unemployed as one can possibly be, and tragically may never find work again, you are not counted in the figure we see relentlessly in the news -- currently 5.6%. Right now, as many as 30 million Americans are either out of work or severely underemployed.

6. -- maybe someone pays you to mow their lawn -- you're not officially counted as unemployed in the much-reported 5.6%. Few Americans know this.




7. The official unemployment rate, which cruelly overlooks the suffering of the long-term and often permanently unemployed as well as the depressingly underemployed, amounts to a Big Lie.

8. ...a lie that has consequences, because the great American dream is to have a good job, and in recent years, America has failed to deliver that dream more than it has at any time in recent memory.

9. ....quit wondering what hollowed out the middle class."
The Big Lie 5.6 Unemployment



On your knees, Liberals.
You did this to America.

Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... the Fundamental Elements of Socialism.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You just summed up what corporations have been doing for centuries.

...you Liberals????




1. "The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment

2. ... many Americans -- including some of the smartest and most educated among us -- don't know: The official unemployment rate, as reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, is extremely misleading..

3. ...much celebrating from the media, the White House and Wall Street about how unemployment is "down" to 5.6%. The cheerleading for this number is deafening.

4. ....anyone is unemployed and has subsequently given up on finding a job -- if you are so hopelessly out of work that you've stopped looking over the past four weeks -- the Department of Labor doesn't count you as unemployed.

5. ....unemployed as one can possibly be, and tragically may never find work again, you are not counted in the figure we see relentlessly in the news -- currently 5.6%. Right now, as many as 30 million Americans are either out of work or severely underemployed.

6. -- maybe someone pays you to mow their lawn -- you're not officially counted as unemployed in the much-reported 5.6%. Few Americans know this.




7. The official unemployment rate, which cruelly overlooks the suffering of the long-term and often permanently unemployed as well as the depressingly underemployed, amounts to a Big Lie.

8. ...a lie that has consequences, because the great American dream is to have a good job, and in recent years, America has failed to deliver that dream more than it has at any time in recent memory.

9. ....quit wondering what hollowed out the middle class."
The Big Lie 5.6 Unemployment



On your knees, Liberals.
You did this to America.

Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... the Fundamental Elements of Socialism.

Where Corporations are comprised of Leftists, the corporation is going to present Leftist traits.

 

[pinqy]

How do all the folks who work 'under the table' get counted on those unemployment numbers? There are a lot of them. They don't register anywhere and don't pay taxes. Some people who collect unemployment do this also. Seems like maybe for as many folks who should be added to the number of unemployed there are also ones who should be removed.

The unemployment data is collected from a national survey of approximately 60,000 households. People are asked if they worked, not if they paid taxes or if they are legally in the United States, or if they're collecting any benefits (unless they are working part time due to Social Security limits on hours.

 

[boilermaker55]

Care to elaborate?
Such as Koch brothers and the Walton;s, right.

You just summed up what corporations have been doing for centuries.

...you Liberals????




1. "The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment

2. ... many Americans -- including some of the smartest and most educated among us -- don't know: The official unemployment rate, as reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, is extremely misleading..

3. ...much celebrating from the media, the White House and Wall Street about how unemployment is "down" to 5.6%. The cheerleading for this number is deafening.

4. ....anyone is unemployed and has subsequently given up on finding a job -- if you are so hopelessly out of work that you've stopped looking over the past four weeks -- the Department of Labor doesn't count you as unemployed.

5. ....unemployed as one can possibly be, and tragically may never find work again, you are not counted in the figure we see relentlessly in the news -- currently 5.6%. Right now, as many as 30 million Americans are either out of work or severely underemployed.

6. -- maybe someone pays you to mow their lawn -- you're not officially counted as unemployed in the much-reported 5.6%. Few Americans know this.




7. The official unemployment rate, which cruelly overlooks the suffering of the long-term and often permanently unemployed as well as the depressingly underemployed, amounts to a Big Lie.

8. ...a lie that has consequences, because the great American dream is to have a good job, and in recent years, America has failed to deliver that dream more than it has at any time in recent memory.

9. ....quit wondering what hollowed out the middle class."
The Big Lie 5.6 Unemployment



On your knees, Liberals.
You did this to America.

Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... the Fundamental Elements of Socialism.

Where Corporations are comprised of Leftists, the corporation is going to present Leftist traits.

 

[Toro]

The author of the article is on CNBC is saying that the numbers are absolutely accurate and not being fixed but are being misinterpreted as the economy is not as strong as the headline numbers suggested.

 

[Toro]

Here is the interview.

Jobs number misleading Gallup CEO

 

[Flash]

Those Moon Bats that elected Obama have a lot of apologizing to do. They really screwed up. We told them not to vote for an incompetent corrupt affirmative action Left Winger but the idiots wouldn't listen and see what happen?

The sad thing is that these same idiots will make another mistake in 2016 by either voting for The Bitch of Benghazi, Indian Princess Liesalot or that clown Biden.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I provided this in post #16....

"1. "In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.

2. ...— from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated..... the Census Bureau, which does the unemployment survey, knew it.

3. .... two years before the presidential election, the Census Bureau had caught an employee fabricating data that went into the unemployment report, which is one of the most closely watched measures of the economy.

And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today."
Census 8216 faked 8217 2012 election jobs report New York Post




Let's see you do the same for the other side.

One google search would've saved face but you enjoy being duped

The U.S. Census Bureau said Tuesday that a source named in a New York Post story claiming it had "faked" unemployment data hasn't worked at the Bureau since 2011.

A Census spokesperson confirmed to Business Insider that the Census Bureau employee quoted in the story, Julius Buckmon, has not worked there since August 2011. This was first reported by CNBC's Steve Liesman.

The Post story never mentions this fact.



Read more: NY Post Source Julius Buckmon Left Census In 2011 - Business Insider


Humble pie coming right up!

"....And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee ...."


Maybe, as is the case of your cerebral cortex, no one worked there, huh?

So you post an article claiming some guy fudged the numbers in 2012 who was fired in 2011 and your response is what? SOMEONE worked there...?

I recall jobs (allegedly) going up at a clip of about 80K to 130K and the unemployment rate somehow going down against the standard trend of 200K jobs created to keep the unemployment rate the same. It's obvious to any non partisan that the numbers were being manipulated. Your attempt to make this a matter of mere sources is lame. Nobody care's about your courtroom ploys if at the end of the day you're more interested in selling a narrative than ascertaining the truth.

No your attempt to ignore the sources from the OP 's article that claimed the guy who manipulated the numbers didn't work there. For some reason the guy who manipulated the numbers not being employed there is not a big deal.

I'd love to see that used in other situations.

"But officer I was home that night of the murder"

Officer: "it doesn't matter where you were, you're guilty of the murder"

200-250K is what it takes to move the needle. I dont' care how you try to lame your way of that reality.

 

[pinqy]

One google search would've saved face but you enjoy being duped

The U.S. Census Bureau said Tuesday that a source named in a New York Post story claiming it had "faked" unemployment data hasn't worked at the Bureau since 2011.

A Census spokesperson confirmed to Business Insider that the Census Bureau employee quoted in the story, Julius Buckmon, has not worked there since August 2011. This was first reported by CNBC's Steve Liesman.

The Post story never mentions this fact.



Read more: NY Post Source Julius Buckmon Left Census In 2011 - Business Insider


Humble pie coming right up!

"....And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee ...."


Maybe, as is the case of your cerebral cortex, no one worked there, huh?

So you post an article claiming some guy fudged the numbers in 2012 who was fired in 2011 and your response is what? SOMEONE worked there...?

I recall jobs (allegedly) going up at a clip of about 80K to 130K and the unemployment rate somehow going down against the standard trend of 200K jobs created to keep the unemployment rate the same. It's obvious to any non partisan that the numbers were being manipulated. Your attempt to make this a matter of mere sources is lame. Nobody care's about your courtroom ploys if at the end of the day you're more interested in selling a narrative than ascertaining the truth.

No your attempt to ignore the sources from the OP 's article that claimed the guy who manipulated the numbers didn't work there. For some reason the guy who manipulated the numbers not being employed there is not a big deal.

I'd love to see that used in other situations.

"But officer I was home that night of the murder"

Officer: "it doesn't matter where you were, you're guilty of the murder"

200-250K is what it takes to move the needle. I dont' care how you try to lame your way of that reality.

Ease show your math.