"Reasonable" gun control vs "gun nut gun control"

[2aguy]

Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds

Hmmmmmm....seems like guns deterred these crimes..........


Dinah Burns was walking her dog on a path near an elementary school when two men approached her with a baseball bat. One of the men said, “You’re coming with us.” Burns asked what they wanted as she reached into her pocket. When the man with the baseball bat came toward her and raised the bat aggressively, Burns pulled out the firearm she carried. She pointed the gun at them and said, “I have this and I’m not afraid to use it.” Both assailants backed off immediately and fled the scene. Burns and her dog were left unharmed, and no shots were fired. “[I’m] very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn’t happen again, but I will be prepared,” Burns said. (The Daily Caller, Lancaster, OH, 8/30/14)

A 28-year-old man was sitting on the backyard patio with his wife, 36, at around 10 p.m. when they were approached by a man wearing a mask. The man carried a gun and ordered the couple inside the home where their three young children—ages 6, 13 and 14—slept. Once inside, the husband was able to retrieve his firearm and fired. The police arrived a short time later, and the gunman was pronounced dead at the scene. The family remained unharmed. “It’s shocking,” a neighbor said. “But he had to do what he had to do to protect his family, his household.” (The Times-Picayune, New Orleans, LA, 8/22/14)

Joshua Black, 27, was with several others when they heard someone else inside his home around 1 p.m. Three suspects were already on their way out with a stolen handgun and two televisions before Black discovered they were there. Gunfire erupted between Black and the suspects, one of whom was fatally wounded. No other injuries were reported. One of Black’s neighbors said, “… if [the homeowner] didn’t have a gun, he might be the one who was killed. You got to do what you got to do [sic] to protect yourself.” (Guns.com, Indianapolis, IN, 8/1/14)

Homeowner Thomas Patterson, 71, woke to noises coming from inside his home around 6 a.m. He quickly retrieved his firearm and opened the bedroom door. Patterson recalled, “The man, I could see him trying to duck into the closet in the next room and I just told him, ‘Come out of there, Bud.’” Patterson then held the 22-year-old intruder at gunpoint while he called 911 and waited for police to arrive. No injuries were reported and no shots were fired during the break-in. (WTHR, Indianapolis, IN, 8/4/14)

Paige Ham, 28, and a friend woke to a loud noise outside of their residence just after 4 a.m. They looked out the window and noticed that a lock had been cut from an outside shed. While Ham went outside to secure the shed door, her friend dialed 911. As Ham walked toward the shed, a man charged at her. Ham pulled out her .380 caliber pistol and fired three rounds, striking the assailant once in the chest. He fell just a few feet away. Police arrived shortly thereafter, and the assailant was taken to a local hospital. It was last reported that he was in stable condition. No other injuries were reported. (Goldsboro News-Argus, Goldsboro, NC, 8/7/14)

Quinton Wood was asleep just before 10 a.m. when he heard the doorbell ring followed by loud knocking. Wood said he was not expecting any visitors and did not recognize the black Ford Mustang parked in front of his home, so he retrieved his firearm as a precaution. When a 25-year-old stranger entered the home, Wood confronted him. Wood claimed the intruder continued toward him despite his warnings. Wood said, “… All I know is, I’m telling him [to] get down, stop. It went bad. He kept coming toward me and didn’t want to stop.” Wood fired once, striking the intruder in the chest. Police arrived shortly thereafter, and the suspect was taken to a local hospital. He is reportedly expected to make a full recovery. Wood was not injured during the incident. (KHOU.com, Houston, TX, 8/26/14)

A group of women were enjoying themselves at the Cork! wine bar when a man they did not know pressed his leg against their bistro table, violating their personal space. One woman asked the man to move away. The man became upset, flipped the table over and punched the woman in the face. After the assault, another customer intervened and ordered the man to leave. The assailant grew more agitated and pulled a knife as he walked toward the customer. An employee entered in time to see the knife, prompting him to pull out a handgun and order the assailant to the ground. He was held at gunpoint until police arrived. (The News Tribune, Tacoma, WA, 8/12/14)

 

[2aguy]

Regular people are totally useless when trying to use a handgun in self-defense study


Yes.....tell us again how armed citizens can't use guns for self defense...do you think all of these people are Navy Seals.....


Zachary Rogers, 26, was working late one night at the 21st Amendment liquor store. It was just past midnight when an armed man wearing a ski mask entered the store and forced Rogers and another store employee, Alicia Grabarczyk, 25, down a hallway toward an office where the safe was kept. With a concealed handgun in his front pocket, Rogers chose his moment of opportunity carefully. In one quick motion, Rogers pushed Grabarczyk to the floor and fired at the armed robber. He then helped Grabarczyk into the office and out of the line of fire. Although the burglar had been struck, Rogers saw him raise his firearm. Rogers fired three more rounds at the gunman which proved fatal. Neither Rogers nor Grabarczyk were harmed. (Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 10/11/12)

While at home with his wife and daughter, a homeowner prepared to go outside to investigate a sudden power outage. His wife asked him to carry his firearm with him as a precaution. As he opened the front door to step outside, three men charged him in an attempt to gain entry. The homeowner pushed his wife aside as he fell backward and fired at the intruders. His daughter, a student in her early 20s, hid in another room and called police. One of the three home invaders suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition. The remaining two suspects managed to escape. The homeowner and his family were not seriously injured. (Sun Sentinel, Miramar, FL, 10/2/12)

Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)

George Polanin, 66, went to bed early one evening only to be awakened by noises coming from inside his home. He was upstairs and followed the sound of footsteps to the basement. When he reached the stairs, Polanin said he could see only the intruder’s feet. “ … I got my weapon and basically told him I had a weapon, it was loaded and I will use it,” Polanin said. He then ordered the intruder to come out as he dialed 911. Polanin held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived. (Kenosha News, Kenosha, WI, 10/17/12)

Cindy Schachter, an employee at Furnari Jewelers, was working when two men entered the store around 4 p.m. Schachter’s boss, Anthony Furnari, was sitting at his desk facing the showroom. Something about the men made Schachter uneasy, so she gave her boss a quiet warning right before they pulled clothing over their faces and jumped over the counter. Furnari quickly pulled his .38-cal. handgun from his desk and fired several rounds at one of the suspects as he came toward him. Furnari was severely beaten as both men tried to gain control of his firearm. When Furnari fought back, the men grabbed a display of gold chains and fled. One suspect was later taken into custody after seeking treatment for several bullet wounds. It was last reported that the second suspect was still at large. Furnari suffered a broken nose, a concussion, multiple stitches to the face and hand, and a fractured rib. Schachter was reportedly unharmed. (The Republican, Chicopee, MA, 10/17/12)

Jack and Linda Dillon were roused from their sleep at approximately 2:45 a.m. when they realized someone had just broken into their home. The intruder gained entry through an unlocked window. He allegedly entered the home with intent to steal electronics. Linda called 911 as Jack retrieved a firearm and confronted the 29-year-old intruder in their living room. Jack fired when the man lunged at him. The intruder’s wound proved fatal. (The Morning Journal, Elyria, OH, 10/20/12)

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

The first thing you are wrong about......

1) there are less than 10 million crimes reported evey year....many more crimes happen and never get reported to police....

In a country of over 320 million people...2 million is impossible?......right...sell that to your anti gun extremist buddies....

 

[2aguy]

Regular people are totally useless when trying to use a handgun in self-defense study


Yes.....tell us again how armed citizens can't use guns for self defense...do you think all of these people are Navy Seals.....


Zachary Rogers, 26, was working late one night at the 21st Amendment liquor store. It was just past midnight when an armed man wearing a ski mask entered the store and forced Rogers and another store employee, Alicia Grabarczyk, 25, down a hallway toward an office where the safe was kept. With a concealed handgun in his front pocket, Rogers chose his moment of opportunity carefully. In one quick motion, Rogers pushed Grabarczyk to the floor and fired at the armed robber. He then helped Grabarczyk into the office and out of the line of fire. Although the burglar had been struck, Rogers saw him raise his firearm. Rogers fired three more rounds at the gunman which proved fatal. Neither Rogers nor Grabarczyk were harmed. (Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 10/11/12)

While at home with his wife and daughter, a homeowner prepared to go outside to investigate a sudden power outage. His wife asked him to carry his firearm with him as a precaution. As he opened the front door to step outside, three men charged him in an attempt to gain entry. The homeowner pushed his wife aside as he fell backward and fired at the intruders. His daughter, a student in her early 20s, hid in another room and called police. One of the three home invaders suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition. The remaining two suspects managed to escape. The homeowner and his family were not seriously injured. (Sun Sentinel, Miramar, FL, 10/2/12)

Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)

George Polanin, 66, went to bed early one evening only to be awakened by noises coming from inside his home. He was upstairs and followed the sound of footsteps to the basement. When he reached the stairs, Polanin said he could see only the intruder’s feet. “ … I got my weapon and basically told him I had a weapon, it was loaded and I will use it,” Polanin said. He then ordered the intruder to come out as he dialed 911. Polanin held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived. (Kenosha News, Kenosha, WI, 10/17/12)

Cindy Schachter, an employee at Furnari Jewelers, was working when two men entered the store around 4 p.m. Schachter’s boss, Anthony Furnari, was sitting at his desk facing the showroom. Something about the men made Schachter uneasy, so she gave her boss a quiet warning right before they pulled clothing over their faces and jumped over the counter. Furnari quickly pulled his .38-cal. handgun from his desk and fired several rounds at one of the suspects as he came toward him. Furnari was severely beaten as both men tried to gain control of his firearm. When Furnari fought back, the men grabbed a display of gold chains and fled. One suspect was later taken into custody after seeking treatment for several bullet wounds. It was last reported that the second suspect was still at large. Furnari suffered a broken nose, a concussion, multiple stitches to the face and hand, and a fractured rib. Schachter was reportedly unharmed. (The Republican, Chicopee, MA, 10/17/12)

Jack and Linda Dillon were roused from their sleep at approximately 2:45 a.m. when they realized someone had just broken into their home. The intruder gained entry through an unlocked window. He allegedly entered the home with intent to steal electronics. Linda called 911 as Jack retrieved a firearm and confronted the 29-year-old intruder in their living room. Jack fired when the man lunged at him. The intruder’s wound proved fatal. (The Morning Journal, Elyria, OH, 10/20/12)

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

No, the 2 million number comes from actual research....the average of 10 studies that look at non police, non military shootings.....and there are at least 6 other accessible studies that are also higher than 764,000 (the lowest number represented by these studies).

 

[Brain357]

Regular people are totally useless when trying to use a handgun in self-defense study


Yes.....tell us again how armed citizens can't use guns for self defense...do you think all of these people are Navy Seals.....


Zachary Rogers, 26, was working late one night at the 21st Amendment liquor store. It was just past midnight when an armed man wearing a ski mask entered the store and forced Rogers and another store employee, Alicia Grabarczyk, 25, down a hallway toward an office where the safe was kept. With a concealed handgun in his front pocket, Rogers chose his moment of opportunity carefully. In one quick motion, Rogers pushed Grabarczyk to the floor and fired at the armed robber. He then helped Grabarczyk into the office and out of the line of fire. Although the burglar had been struck, Rogers saw him raise his firearm. Rogers fired three more rounds at the gunman which proved fatal. Neither Rogers nor Grabarczyk were harmed. (Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 10/11/12)

While at home with his wife and daughter, a homeowner prepared to go outside to investigate a sudden power outage. His wife asked him to carry his firearm with him as a precaution. As he opened the front door to step outside, three men charged him in an attempt to gain entry. The homeowner pushed his wife aside as he fell backward and fired at the intruders. His daughter, a student in her early 20s, hid in another room and called police. One of the three home invaders suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition. The remaining two suspects managed to escape. The homeowner and his family were not seriously injured. (Sun Sentinel, Miramar, FL, 10/2/12)

Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)

George Polanin, 66, went to bed early one evening only to be awakened by noises coming from inside his home. He was upstairs and followed the sound of footsteps to the basement. When he reached the stairs, Polanin said he could see only the intruder’s feet. “ … I got my weapon and basically told him I had a weapon, it was loaded and I will use it,” Polanin said. He then ordered the intruder to come out as he dialed 911. Polanin held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived. (Kenosha News, Kenosha, WI, 10/17/12)

Cindy Schachter, an employee at Furnari Jewelers, was working when two men entered the store around 4 p.m. Schachter’s boss, Anthony Furnari, was sitting at his desk facing the showroom. Something about the men made Schachter uneasy, so she gave her boss a quiet warning right before they pulled clothing over their faces and jumped over the counter. Furnari quickly pulled his .38-cal. handgun from his desk and fired several rounds at one of the suspects as he came toward him. Furnari was severely beaten as both men tried to gain control of his firearm. When Furnari fought back, the men grabbed a display of gold chains and fled. One suspect was later taken into custody after seeking treatment for several bullet wounds. It was last reported that the second suspect was still at large. Furnari suffered a broken nose, a concussion, multiple stitches to the face and hand, and a fractured rib. Schachter was reportedly unharmed. (The Republican, Chicopee, MA, 10/17/12)

Jack and Linda Dillon were roused from their sleep at approximately 2:45 a.m. when they realized someone had just broken into their home. The intruder gained entry through an unlocked window. He allegedly entered the home with intent to steal electronics. Linda called 911 as Jack retrieved a firearm and confronted the 29-year-old intruder in their living room. Jack fired when the man lunged at him. The intruder’s wound proved fatal. (The Morning Journal, Elyria, OH, 10/20/12)

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

The first thing you are wrong about......

1) there are less than 10 million crimes reported evey year....many more crimes happen and never get reported to police....

In a country of over 320 million people...2 million is impossible?......right...sell that to your anti gun extremist buddies....

Then show me based on gun ownership and crime rates it is possible. You seem to be counting criminal use of a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry brain....you anti gun extremists say lax gun laws create more gun crime......VT. shows that that is completely wrong......and all the gun laws in California, not reducing their gun violence....

I often and clearly state gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Neither does concealed carry.

That is just wrong brain...at a minimum....it stops the crime for the person carrying the gun on their person..........and that happens every day...

Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds

18 other studies says they do......

18 studies by Lott who is a pro gun nut.

No...6 studies by Lott and colleagues the other 12 by other researchers....

 

[Brain357]

Regular people are totally useless when trying to use a handgun in self-defense study


Yes.....tell us again how armed citizens can't use guns for self defense...do you think all of these people are Navy Seals.....


Zachary Rogers, 26, was working late one night at the 21st Amendment liquor store. It was just past midnight when an armed man wearing a ski mask entered the store and forced Rogers and another store employee, Alicia Grabarczyk, 25, down a hallway toward an office where the safe was kept. With a concealed handgun in his front pocket, Rogers chose his moment of opportunity carefully. In one quick motion, Rogers pushed Grabarczyk to the floor and fired at the armed robber. He then helped Grabarczyk into the office and out of the line of fire. Although the burglar had been struck, Rogers saw him raise his firearm. Rogers fired three more rounds at the gunman which proved fatal. Neither Rogers nor Grabarczyk were harmed. (Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 10/11/12)

While at home with his wife and daughter, a homeowner prepared to go outside to investigate a sudden power outage. His wife asked him to carry his firearm with him as a precaution. As he opened the front door to step outside, three men charged him in an attempt to gain entry. The homeowner pushed his wife aside as he fell backward and fired at the intruders. His daughter, a student in her early 20s, hid in another room and called police. One of the three home invaders suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition. The remaining two suspects managed to escape. The homeowner and his family were not seriously injured. (Sun Sentinel, Miramar, FL, 10/2/12)

Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)

George Polanin, 66, went to bed early one evening only to be awakened by noises coming from inside his home. He was upstairs and followed the sound of footsteps to the basement. When he reached the stairs, Polanin said he could see only the intruder’s feet. “ … I got my weapon and basically told him I had a weapon, it was loaded and I will use it,” Polanin said. He then ordered the intruder to come out as he dialed 911. Polanin held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived. (Kenosha News, Kenosha, WI, 10/17/12)

Cindy Schachter, an employee at Furnari Jewelers, was working when two men entered the store around 4 p.m. Schachter’s boss, Anthony Furnari, was sitting at his desk facing the showroom. Something about the men made Schachter uneasy, so she gave her boss a quiet warning right before they pulled clothing over their faces and jumped over the counter. Furnari quickly pulled his .38-cal. handgun from his desk and fired several rounds at one of the suspects as he came toward him. Furnari was severely beaten as both men tried to gain control of his firearm. When Furnari fought back, the men grabbed a display of gold chains and fled. One suspect was later taken into custody after seeking treatment for several bullet wounds. It was last reported that the second suspect was still at large. Furnari suffered a broken nose, a concussion, multiple stitches to the face and hand, and a fractured rib. Schachter was reportedly unharmed. (The Republican, Chicopee, MA, 10/17/12)

Jack and Linda Dillon were roused from their sleep at approximately 2:45 a.m. when they realized someone had just broken into their home. The intruder gained entry through an unlocked window. He allegedly entered the home with intent to steal electronics. Linda called 911 as Jack retrieved a firearm and confronted the 29-year-old intruder in their living room. Jack fired when the man lunged at him. The intruder’s wound proved fatal. (The Morning Journal, Elyria, OH, 10/20/12)

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

No, the 2 million number comes from actual research....the average of 10 studies that look at non police, non military shootings.....and there are at least 6 other accessible studies that are also higher than 764,000 (the lowest number represented by these studies).

Most of your studies say it is less than 2 million. One of your biggest wasn't a national study. Another you can't prove exists. Your number is a joke.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry brain....you anti gun extremists say lax gun laws create more gun crime......VT. shows that that is completely wrong......and all the gun laws in California, not reducing their gun violence....

I often and clearly state gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Neither does concealed carry.

That is just wrong brain...at a minimum....it stops the crime for the person carrying the gun on their person..........and that happens every day...

Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds

18 other studies says they do......

18 studies by Lott who is a pro gun nut.

And here you have an anti gun study, commissioned by anti gun President bill "the rapist" clinton, through his Justice Dept. He hired to rabidly anit gun researchers to prove that guns aren't used all that much to stop crime....

And they designed a study to prove this.....and then they got the results....and pooped their pants....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is di- rectly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statis- tically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.

Yeah...I think they were then sent to the Antarctic to study gun control there....

 

[Brain357]

I often and clearly state gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Neither does concealed carry.

That is just wrong brain...at a minimum....it stops the crime for the person carrying the gun on their person..........and that happens every day...

Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds

18 other studies says they do......

18 studies by Lott who is a pro gun nut.

And here you have an anti gun study, commissioned by anti gun President bill "the rapist" clinton, through his Justice Dept. He hired to rabidly anit gun researchers to prove that guns aren't used all that much to stop crime....

And they designed a study to prove this.....and then they got the results....and pooped their pants....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

I see a lot of good reasons why it is much less.

 

[2aguy]

Regular people are totally useless when trying to use a handgun in self-defense study


Yes.....tell us again how armed citizens can't use guns for self defense...do you think all of these people are Navy Seals.....


Zachary Rogers, 26, was working late one night at the 21st Amendment liquor store. It was just past midnight when an armed man wearing a ski mask entered the store and forced Rogers and another store employee, Alicia Grabarczyk, 25, down a hallway toward an office where the safe was kept. With a concealed handgun in his front pocket, Rogers chose his moment of opportunity carefully. In one quick motion, Rogers pushed Grabarczyk to the floor and fired at the armed robber. He then helped Grabarczyk into the office and out of the line of fire. Although the burglar had been struck, Rogers saw him raise his firearm. Rogers fired three more rounds at the gunman which proved fatal. Neither Rogers nor Grabarczyk were harmed. (Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 10/11/12)

While at home with his wife and daughter, a homeowner prepared to go outside to investigate a sudden power outage. His wife asked him to carry his firearm with him as a precaution. As he opened the front door to step outside, three men charged him in an attempt to gain entry. The homeowner pushed his wife aside as he fell backward and fired at the intruders. His daughter, a student in her early 20s, hid in another room and called police. One of the three home invaders suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition. The remaining two suspects managed to escape. The homeowner and his family were not seriously injured. (Sun Sentinel, Miramar, FL, 10/2/12)

Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)

George Polanin, 66, went to bed early one evening only to be awakened by noises coming from inside his home. He was upstairs and followed the sound of footsteps to the basement. When he reached the stairs, Polanin said he could see only the intruder’s feet. “ … I got my weapon and basically told him I had a weapon, it was loaded and I will use it,” Polanin said. He then ordered the intruder to come out as he dialed 911. Polanin held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived. (Kenosha News, Kenosha, WI, 10/17/12)

Cindy Schachter, an employee at Furnari Jewelers, was working when two men entered the store around 4 p.m. Schachter’s boss, Anthony Furnari, was sitting at his desk facing the showroom. Something about the men made Schachter uneasy, so she gave her boss a quiet warning right before they pulled clothing over their faces and jumped over the counter. Furnari quickly pulled his .38-cal. handgun from his desk and fired several rounds at one of the suspects as he came toward him. Furnari was severely beaten as both men tried to gain control of his firearm. When Furnari fought back, the men grabbed a display of gold chains and fled. One suspect was later taken into custody after seeking treatment for several bullet wounds. It was last reported that the second suspect was still at large. Furnari suffered a broken nose, a concussion, multiple stitches to the face and hand, and a fractured rib. Schachter was reportedly unharmed. (The Republican, Chicopee, MA, 10/17/12)

Jack and Linda Dillon were roused from their sleep at approximately 2:45 a.m. when they realized someone had just broken into their home. The intruder gained entry through an unlocked window. He allegedly entered the home with intent to steal electronics. Linda called 911 as Jack retrieved a firearm and confronted the 29-year-old intruder in their living room. Jack fired when the man lunged at him. The intruder’s wound proved fatal. (The Morning Journal, Elyria, OH, 10/20/12)

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

No, the 2 million number comes from actual research....the average of 10 studies that look at non police, non military shootings.....and there are at least 6 other accessible studies that are also higher than 764,000 (the lowest number represented by these studies).

Most of your studies say it is less than 2 million. One of your biggest wasn't a national study. Another you can't prove exists. Your number is a joke.

Yeah....1.5 million solid number is less than a 2 million average...... of 10 other studies....and of the 16 studies where no number is less than 764,000 times a year.....

 

[2aguy]

That is just wrong brain...at a minimum....it stops the crime for the person carrying the gun on their person..........and that happens every day...

Guns Don t Deter Crime Study Finds

18 other studies says they do......

18 studies by Lott who is a pro gun nut.

And here you have an anti gun study, commissioned by anti gun President bill "the rapist" clinton, through his Justice Dept. He hired to rabidly anit gun researchers to prove that guns aren't used all that much to stop crime....

And they designed a study to prove this.....and then they got the results....and pooped their pants....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

I see a lot of good reasons why it is much less.

Because you really, really, really want it to be is not a good reason brain............

 

[2aguy]

Regular people are totally useless when trying to use a handgun in self-defense study


Yes.....tell us again how armed citizens can't use guns for self defense...do you think all of these people are Navy Seals.....


Zachary Rogers, 26, was working late one night at the 21st Amendment liquor store. It was just past midnight when an armed man wearing a ski mask entered the store and forced Rogers and another store employee, Alicia Grabarczyk, 25, down a hallway toward an office where the safe was kept. With a concealed handgun in his front pocket, Rogers chose his moment of opportunity carefully. In one quick motion, Rogers pushed Grabarczyk to the floor and fired at the armed robber. He then helped Grabarczyk into the office and out of the line of fire. Although the burglar had been struck, Rogers saw him raise his firearm. Rogers fired three more rounds at the gunman which proved fatal. Neither Rogers nor Grabarczyk were harmed. (Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 10/11/12)

While at home with his wife and daughter, a homeowner prepared to go outside to investigate a sudden power outage. His wife asked him to carry his firearm with him as a precaution. As he opened the front door to step outside, three men charged him in an attempt to gain entry. The homeowner pushed his wife aside as he fell backward and fired at the intruders. His daughter, a student in her early 20s, hid in another room and called police. One of the three home invaders suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition. The remaining two suspects managed to escape. The homeowner and his family were not seriously injured. (Sun Sentinel, Miramar, FL, 10/2/12)

Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)

George Polanin, 66, went to bed early one evening only to be awakened by noises coming from inside his home. He was upstairs and followed the sound of footsteps to the basement. When he reached the stairs, Polanin said he could see only the intruder’s feet. “ … I got my weapon and basically told him I had a weapon, it was loaded and I will use it,” Polanin said. He then ordered the intruder to come out as he dialed 911. Polanin held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived. (Kenosha News, Kenosha, WI, 10/17/12)

Cindy Schachter, an employee at Furnari Jewelers, was working when two men entered the store around 4 p.m. Schachter’s boss, Anthony Furnari, was sitting at his desk facing the showroom. Something about the men made Schachter uneasy, so she gave her boss a quiet warning right before they pulled clothing over their faces and jumped over the counter. Furnari quickly pulled his .38-cal. handgun from his desk and fired several rounds at one of the suspects as he came toward him. Furnari was severely beaten as both men tried to gain control of his firearm. When Furnari fought back, the men grabbed a display of gold chains and fled. One suspect was later taken into custody after seeking treatment for several bullet wounds. It was last reported that the second suspect was still at large. Furnari suffered a broken nose, a concussion, multiple stitches to the face and hand, and a fractured rib. Schachter was reportedly unharmed. (The Republican, Chicopee, MA, 10/17/12)

Jack and Linda Dillon were roused from their sleep at approximately 2:45 a.m. when they realized someone had just broken into their home. The intruder gained entry through an unlocked window. He allegedly entered the home with intent to steal electronics. Linda called 911 as Jack retrieved a firearm and confronted the 29-year-old intruder in their living room. Jack fired when the man lunged at him. The intruder’s wound proved fatal. (The Morning Journal, Elyria, OH, 10/20/12)

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

The first thing you are wrong about......

1) there are less than 10 million crimes reported evey year....many more crimes happen and never get reported to police....

In a country of over 320 million people...2 million is impossible?......right...sell that to your anti gun extremist buddies....

Then show me based on gun ownership and crime rates it is possible. You seem to be counting criminal use of a gun.

Nope.....not criminals.....regular people.......nice try though..

 

[Brain357]

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

No, the 2 million number comes from actual research....the average of 10 studies that look at non police, non military shootings.....and there are at least 6 other accessible studies that are also higher than 764,000 (the lowest number represented by these studies).

Most of your studies say it is less than 2 million. One of your biggest wasn't a national study. Another you can't prove exists. Your number is a joke.

Yeah....1.5 million solid number is less than a 2 million average...... of 10 other studies....and of the 16 studies where no number is less than 764,000 times a year.....

All those studies are ancient, crime is down over 30%. 11 of your 16 say it is less than 2 million.

 

[2aguy]

For interested parties....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Brain will only lie to you.
Its all he can do.

 

[Brain357]

More people than that accidently shoot and kill themselves.

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

The first thing you are wrong about......

1) there are less than 10 million crimes reported evey year....many more crimes happen and never get reported to police....

In a country of over 320 million people...2 million is impossible?......right...sell that to your anti gun extremist buddies....

Then show me based on gun ownership and crime rates it is possible. You seem to be counting criminal use of a gun.

Nope.....not criminals.....regular people.......nice try though..

Kleck says most are involved in criminal activity.

 

[RKMBrown]

Easy, there are more inner city gang bangers, illegals, and drug runners in California. Plus there's more money in CA so there's more opportunity / easier pickings for crime there.

Ah.
So... demo-soci-economic issues have a greater effect on crime than gun control?

Yes, of course it does. The only thing gun control does is transfer power to the people who are controlling the guns.

 

[2aguy]

Regular people are totally useless when trying to use a handgun in self-defense study


Hmmmm...here are studies that show guns are the mosts effective way for a woman to stop a rape...seems like these women were able to use guns effectively...since the study points it out......

And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....


http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/guns_against_rape1.htm
A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape
However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun%20Ownership%20Stops%20Rape/


In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.
Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women. However,
more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm. They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235200000519

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

 

[Brain357]

For interested parties....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

All should be lowered 30% for modern crime rates. Then field should be removed cause it's not national. Then la times removed cause it is immaginary. Then add in the NCVS which is the biggest study.

 

[2aguy]

Brain....in 2013 only 505 people were accidentally killed with guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns 2 million times to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...

over 12.8 million people carry concealed guns for self defense....

So 505 accidental deaths in a country of over 320 million people is no way to set policy......

2 million is completely made up. There are less than 10 million crimes committed each year. Gun owners are a minority and most crimes are committed when nobody is there to defend then. Your number isn't mathematically possible.

The first thing you are wrong about......

1) there are less than 10 million crimes reported evey year....many more crimes happen and never get reported to police....

In a country of over 320 million people...2 million is impossible?......right...sell that to your anti gun extremist buddies....

Then show me based on gun ownership and crime rates it is possible. You seem to be counting criminal use of a gun.

Nope.....not criminals.....regular people.......nice try though..

Kleck says most are involved in criminal activity.

Liar....no he doesn't...he says they carried their guns in public when it was not legal......he specifically says they were not engaged in criminal activity or criminals......and he emphasized that this year.....

 

[2aguy]

For interested parties....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

All should be lowered 30% for modern crime rates. Then field should be removed cause it's not national. Then la times removed cause it is immaginary. Then add in the NCVS which is the biggest study.

Tell the L.A. times their study was imaginary....did you call them and ask how to find their study......and excuse me if I don't take your advice on how to make the numbers wrong......