Reforming Islam

[Tilly]

Islam had its reformation, pared down, went back to its roots. It's called Wahhabism.

 

[Tilly]

Islam is perfect just the way it is......and in no need of reform. .....

Is Isis perfect just the way it is?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Islam had its reformation, pared down, went back to its roots. It's called Wahhabism.

Can't say as I call that "reform", unless you call the "Dark Ages" reformed.

 

[irosie91]

Islam had its reformation, pared down, went back to its roots. It's called Wahhabism.

tilly----you are over simplifying-----WAHHABISM is not the first BACK TO ROOTS program in islam-------the whole miserable 1400 year history of islam is sprinkled with such programs--------they are always bloody

 

[Tilly]

anyone who suggest that "islam be reformed" knows nothing about islam.
The very first lesson muslim infants learn about islam is----ISLAM IS PERFECT.
One cannot even cite "erroneous interpretation" ----because no "interpretation"
is necessary------EVERYTHING is clearly stated in the PERFECT KORAN----I learned
this stuff from muslims

Could not the same be said of the teachings of Jesus? Was he, in any way at all, wrong?

Jesus was NOT wrong according to muslims but the REAL JESUS is not known thru
the "NEW TESTAMENT" ---because EVIL ENEMEEEEES OF ISLAAAAAM wrote
the new testament in their EVIL DESIGN TO DESTROY ISLAAAAAAM

Please answer the question: Was Jesus, in any way, wrong?

What do you think?

 

[BULLDOG]

Exactly how is that much different from what Christians believe?

Christians are very opened to the idea of misinterpretation or-----just "things not made clear" in their scriptural writings. Muslims are not. The scholars got it RIGHT---
the first time and it is ALL THERE------all in the koran. The good news is that most
muslims never read the koran so they are willing to believe it

How many Christians that you know are willing to say they might be wrong on gay marriage, or abortion?

the question does not apply to theology-----PERSONAL opinion is personal opinion. If you wanted your question to be applicable to this discussion---the
question should be ------"do any Christians adherent to a particular sect of
Christianity DISAGREE with the position of their sect leaders on homosexuality?

No. People who claim Christianity in the US believe those two things are inherently evil across the board. It doesn't mater which particular sect they belong to. Virtually all reject the belief that there are sects. It's either total acceptance of their beliefs, or you aren't a Christian.

I cannot say that all protestants I know would agree with you

Of course not 100%, but I doubt there is more than a statistical blip that disagree.

 

[Tilly]

The quran is the immutable word of allah, thus it cannot be changed. Any reforms would simply mean all Muslims adhering to it, and to sharia, to the letter. Hence salafim as the reformation.

 

[Conservative65]

Christians are very opened to the idea of misinterpretation or-----just "things not made clear" in their scriptural writings. Muslims are not. The scholars got it RIGHT---
the first time and it is ALL THERE------all in the koran. The good news is that most
muslims never read the koran so they are willing to believe it

How many Christians that you know are willing to say they might be wrong on gay marriage, or abortion?

the question does not apply to theology-----PERSONAL opinion is personal opinion. If you wanted your question to be applicable to this discussion---the
question should be ------"do any Christians adherent to a particular sect of
Christianity DISAGREE with the position of their sect leaders on homosexuality?

No. People who claim Christianity in the US believe those two things are inherently evil across the board. It doesn't mater which particular sect they belong to. Virtually all reject the belief that there are sects. It's either total acceptance of their beliefs, or you aren't a Christian.

I cannot say that all protestants I know would agree with you

Of course not 100%, but I doubt there is more than a statistical blip that disagree.

You doubt or you can prove?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

anyone who suggest that "islam be reformed" knows nothing about islam.
The very first lesson muslim infants learn about islam is----ISLAM IS PERFECT.
One cannot even cite "erroneous interpretation" ----because no "interpretation"
is necessary------EVERYTHING is clearly stated in the PERFECT KORAN----I learned
this stuff from muslims

Could not the same be said of the teachings of Jesus? Was he, in any way at all, wrong?

Jesus was NOT wrong according to muslims but the REAL JESUS is not known thru
the "NEW TESTAMENT" ---because EVIL ENEMEEEEES OF ISLAAAAAM wrote
the new testament in their EVIL DESIGN TO DESTROY ISLAAAAAAM

Please answer the question: Was Jesus, in any way, wrong?

What do you think?

A Christian would most likely say no, that Jesus was perfect. That is the dogma, like Sunni Man's.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The quran is the immutable word of allah, thus it cannot be changed. Any reforms would simply mean all Muslims adhering to it, and to sharia, to the letter. Hence wahabiism as the reformation.

Reform means change, not strict adherence.

 

[Tilly]

The good news is that most
muslims never read the koran so they are willing to believe it

Irosie loves to tell lies about Islam and muslims......must be a Jew thing.

Even in the poorest muslim countries. Muslim parents teach their children to read, write, and memorize verses from the Quran.

Throughout the Middle East, one of the most popular community events is reciting the Quran by memory contests. ......

Awwww, how sweet.

 

[Tilly]

The good news is that most
muslims never read the koran so they are willing to believe it

Irosie loves to tell lies about Islam and muslims......must be a Jew thing.

Even in the poorest muslim countries. Muslim parents teach their children to read, write, and memorize verses from the Quran.

Throughout the Middle East, one of the most popular community events is reciting the Quran by memory contests. ......

most muslims in the world cannot read Arabic. -----in some places kids learn to
recite the koran by rote ------without understanding the words ----This is a practice in places like Pakistan. In Pakistan lots of the females are completely illiterate to the point that they cannot draw an X on a paper as a substitute for a signature----
in some places papers a "signed" with a thumb print. Sunni forgets that I have
interacted with muslims for more than 45 years. Anyone interested----find an Iranian and ask him if he can read Arabic---------expect him to laugh

Nearly 40% of Muslim world’s population unable read or write: IINA Report

Nearly 40% of Muslim world’s population unable read or write: IINA Report

 

[BULLDOG]

How many Christians that you know are willing to say they might be wrong on gay marriage, or abortion?

the question does not apply to theology-----PERSONAL opinion is personal opinion. If you wanted your question to be applicable to this discussion---the
question should be ------"do any Christians adherent to a particular sect of
Christianity DISAGREE with the position of their sect leaders on homosexuality?

No. People who claim Christianity in the US believe those two things are inherently evil across the board. It doesn't mater which particular sect they belong to. Virtually all reject the belief that there are sects. It's either total acceptance of their beliefs, or you aren't a Christian.

I cannot say that all protestants I know would agree with you

Of course not 100%, but I doubt there is more than a statistical blip that disagree.

You doubt or you can prove?

No need to prove it. You are free to not believe it, but I suspect many know it is true.

 

[Tilly]

Islam had its reformation, pared down, went back to its roots. It's called Wahhabism.

Can't say as I call that "reform", unless you call the "Dark Ages" reformed.

That's correct, for Islamic reformation.

 

[Meathead]

The good news is that most
muslims never read the koran so they are willing to believe it

Irosie loves to tell lies about Islam and muslims......must be a Jew thing.

Even in the poorest muslim countries. Muslim parents teach their children to read, write, and memorize verses from the Quran.

Throughout the Middle East, one of the most popular community events is reciting the Quran by memory contests. ......

most muslims in the world cannot read Arabic. -----in some places kids learn to
recite the koran by rote ------without understanding the words ----This is a practice in places like Pakistan. In Pakistan lots of the females are completely illiterate to the point that they cannot draw an X on a paper as a substitute for a signature----
in some places papers a "signed" with a thumb print. Sunni forgets that I have
interacted with muslims for more than 45 years. Anyone interested----find an Iranian and ask him if he can read Arabic---------expect him to laugh

Nearly 40% of Muslim world’s population unable read or write: IINA Report

Nearly 40% of Muslim world’s population unable read or write: IINA Report

And of those that can read, many of them can only read the Quoran.

 

[Tilly]

Islam had its reformation, pared down, went back to its roots. It's called Wahhabism.

tilly----you are over simplifying-----WAHHABISM is not the first BACK TO ROOTS program in islam-------the whole miserable 1400 year history of islam is sprinkled with such programs--------they are always bloody

True, salaffiism came earlier.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Islam had its reformation, pared down, went back to its roots. It's called Wahhabism.

Can't say as I call that "reform", unless you call the "Dark Ages" reformed.

That's correct, for Islamic reformation.

Same reactionary nonsense, hence why I hate reactionaries...

 

[irosie91]

The good news is that most
muslims never read the koran so they are willing to believe it

Irosie loves to tell lies about Islam and muslims......must be a Jew thing.

Even in the poorest muslim countries. Muslim parents teach their children to read, write, and memorize verses from the Quran.

Throughout the Middle East, one of the most popular community events is reciting the Quran by memory contests. ......

most muslims in the world cannot read Arabic. -----in some places kids learn to
recite the koran by rote ------without understanding the words ----This is a practice in places like Pakistan. In Pakistan lots of the females are completely illiterate to the point that they cannot draw an X on a paper as a substitute for a signature----
in some places papers a "signed" with a thumb print. Sunni forgets that I have
interacted with muslims for more than 45 years. Anyone interested----find an Iranian and ask him if he can read Arabic---------expect him to laugh

Nearly 40% of Muslim world’s population unable read or write: IINA Report

Nearly 40% of Muslim world’s population unable read or write: IINA Report

of the remaining 60% ----most do not read and write in Arabic. The only muslims I ever met who read and write in Arabic-----were those from Arabic speaking countries. In fact, I have known more jews who can read and write in Arabic----than muslims

 

[Tilly]

anyone who suggest that "islam be reformed" knows nothing about islam.
The very first lesson muslim infants learn about islam is----ISLAM IS PERFECT.
One cannot even cite "erroneous interpretation" ----because no "interpretation"
is necessary------EVERYTHING is clearly stated in the PERFECT KORAN----I learned
this stuff from muslims

Could not the same be said of the teachings of Jesus? Was he, in any way at all, wrong?

Jesus was NOT wrong according to muslims but the REAL JESUS is not known thru
the "NEW TESTAMENT" ---because EVIL ENEMEEEEES OF ISLAAAAAM wrote
the new testament in their EVIL DESIGN TO DESTROY ISLAAAAAAM

Please answer the question: Was Jesus, in any way, wrong?

What do you think?

A Christian would most likely say no, that Jesus was perfect. That is the dogma, like Sunni Man's.

Can you provide some examples of JEsus being 'wrong' as per your question.

 

[Tilly]

The quran is the immutable word of allah, thus it cannot be changed. Any reforms would simply mean all Muslims adhering to it, and to sharia, to the letter. Hence wahabiism as the reformation.

Reform means change, not strict adherence.

In terms of religion, reform normally means getting rid of developments that have diverged from the religions beginnings, ie getting rid of sales of indulgences, getting rid of practices that are an abuse, ie, going back to the roots.