Religious Liberty or Secularism?

[PoliticalChic]

Low Information Voter:
in 1991 Linguist George Lakoff wrote that the term is a pejorative mainly used by American liberals to refer to people who vote conservative against their own interests, and assumes they do it because they lack sufficient information. Liberals, attribute the problem in part to deliberate Republican efforts at misinforming voters


Christian persecution
Christians cannot deal with the fact that people today aren't as gullible and ignorant as in the past and thus they can't push their outdated beliefs on others or use religion to control other people.And when spoiled,immature children can't have their way they scream persecution!


"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
..........From the "Treaty of Tripoli" which was signed during the term of George Washington
and ratified by congress during the term of John Adams.

In 1776 our fathers endeavored to retire the gods from politics. They declared that "all
governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed." This was a
contradiction of the then political ideas of the world; it was, as many believed, an act of pure
blasphemy a renunciation of the Deity. ...It was a notice to all churches and priests that
thereafter mankind would govern and protect themselves. Politically it tore down every altar
and denied the authority of every "sacred book" and appealed from the Providence of God to
the Providence of man.

1. You misunderstand the work of Lakoff.
His import is about controlling the language, not whether it is used for liberals or conservatives.

In his book 'Why We're Liberals," Eric Alterman says: "Of course, liberal linguist Professor George Lakoff compunds the problem, in his book “Don't Think of an Elephant!,” when he speaks of progressives framing policy in a ‘nurturing and cooperative” manner, as opposed to those mean conservatives who rely on a more competitive, ‘strict father’ rendition." See pages 73-74.

The the suprmemacy of the Liberals/Democrats/Progressives is because of the folks that control of education and media has been able to influence.....the 'low information voter.'


Judging by your post,.....that would include you.


2. Persecution?
The OP makes the case that secularists attack religion and religious folks.


3. Your quotes....?
How about this one:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Know it's source?
It's author?

Good.

It should hardly come as a surprise that the more devout Christians in America (evangelicals and fundamentalists) want to claim religious freedom for themselves while denying it to all others. Many of the early settlers came here because they were persecuted in England, only to institute their own brand of religious persecution upon arrival or shortly thereafter. (Consider the history of the Quakers, and the biography of Roger Williams, that early advocate of religious freedom.)

If freedom of religion is threatened at all in the western world, the main threat comes not from outside the Christian religion. It comes from those who are convinced that their way of understanding the divine is the only correct way--a common ailment amongst pious people.

As to the creator most of the founding fathers were deists not christers. the deist view of a god is total different then yours

One of the embarrassing problems for the early nineteenth-century
champions of the Christian faith was that not one of the first six
Presidents of the United States was an orthodox Christian.

Welcome To The Deism Site!

1. " NPR Reporter Apologizes for Saying ‘Christmas’ On Air | The Blaze

"Well, these agencies, including the Defense Department, don‘t know how much money they’ve got and for what. And I was at – forgive the expression – a Christmas party at the Department of Justice and people actually were really worried about this."

Graham also strongly chastised the U.S. military, which has restricted Christians displays of faith.

“Chaplains in the United States military are not allowed to pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Isn’t that a shame that a chaplain in the Christian faith is not allowed to pray in the name of Christ? So yes, there is a war, no question about it.”

Read more: As America Celebrates Christmas, Rev. Franklin Graham Says Secular 'War' Rages Against Christians



2. VA Forbids Mention of God at Funerals for Veterans and Requires Families to Submit Prayer for Approval to the Government: For 30 years, the VFW District 4 burial team, at the request of the family of the deceased, has honored veterans by performing the VFW burial ritual during private burial services at the Houston National Cemetery. For 20 years, The American Legion Post 586 has honored our veterans by performing its burial ritual for fallen veterans. On at least four separate occasions, government officials told the burial teams that prayer and religious speech could no longer be included in the burial ritual unless the family submits a specific prayer or message in writing to Director Ocasio for her approval. Government official Jose Henriquez also told the VFW Honor Guard Commander, Junior Vice Commander and Chaplain that the word "God" is forbidden.
VA instructs the VFW and a Private Funeral Home that they may not present the option of prayer to families:
VA Tells Volunteers to Remove "God Bless" from Condolence Cards to Grieving Families:
VA Closes Cemetery Chapel; Uses it for Storage:
Stay up to date on this case at Home - Liberty Institute.
http://news.yahoo.com/veterans-affairs-bans-mention-god-funerals-vets-232205629.html



3. On January 30, 2007, the John Edwards 2008 presidential campaign hired [Amanda] Marcotte to act as the campaign's blogmaster.[3] Soon afterward, many bloggers began to quote Marcotte's blog, especially posts in which she attacked the Catholic Church's position on birth control and access to abortion, writing, "What if Mary had taken Plan B after the Lord filled her with his hot, white, sticky Holy Spirit?"[4] Columnist Kathryn Jean Lopez wrote, "Her hostility to religion and in particular the Catholic Church should alarm Edwards."[5] Journalist Terry Moran wrote, on an ABC News blog, "her comments about other people's faiths could well be construed as hate speech.” Amanda Marcotte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


4. Six-year-old Zachary Hood was happy at this chance to be recognized for his good reading performance. He and the other students in the first-grade class at Haines School in Medford, New Jersey, would be allowed to read a story to their classmates. Zachary initially selected Dr. Suess's The Cat in the Hat, but decided that it was too long and picked a story about Jacob and Esau from The Beginner's Bible instead. … Unfortunately teacher Grace Oliva decided the story was inappropriate, since it has based on the Bible. She would not allow Zachary to read it to the students. Liberty Magazine | Once Upon a First Amendment



5. “A Lewis-Palmer High School student who was told she must apologize for mentioning Jesus in a valedictorian speech or not receive a diploma…” Monument teen appeals over Jesus graduation speech - The Denver Post

 

[Underhill]

None of those stories are attacks on religious freedom. The NPR reporter can apologize for whatever he likes, as is his right. The Chaplin story leaves out a great deal. The VA changed its policies so as not to offend families who don't want prayers. John Edwards blogger is free to say anything he likes about catholic church policy and schools make judgement calls and sometimes go a bit too far.

But none of them are examples of a wide spread assaults on christianity. They are examples of christians pushing boundaries and society exploring where the lines are.

Should a child be reading bible stories to kids who's parents don't want them hearing it? It's not a big deal, but it could be seen as offensive. Would you want your kid listening to stories about Allah or Mohammad at school? I'm betting not.

I could go on but it doesn't matter. You are a believer. So anything I say is pointless. You believe it, therefor it must be true. Reality is secondary.

 

[PoliticalChic]

None of those stories are attacks on religious freedom. The NPR reporter can apologize for whatever he likes, as is his right. The Chaplin story leaves out a great deal. The VA changed its policies so as not to offend families who don't want prayers. John Edwards blogger is free to say anything he likes about catholic church policy and schools make judgement calls and sometimes go a bit too far.

But none of them are examples of a wide spread assaults on christianity. They are examples of christians pushing boundaries and society exploring where the lines are.

Should a child be reading bible stories to kids who's parents don't want them hearing it? It's not a big deal, but it could be seen as offensive. Would you want your kid listening to stories about Allah or Mohammad at school? I'm betting not.

I could go on but it doesn't matter. You are a believer. So anything I say is pointless. You believe it, therefor it must be true. Reality is secondary.

1. "None of those stories are attacks on religious freedom."
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


2. "They are examples of christians...."

They are examples of believers wishing for the same respect as non-believers.



3. "Should a child be reading bible stories to kids who's parents don't want them hearing it?"

You must be so dense that light bends around you!

What do you think the indoctrination of government schooling is based on?



4. "....sometimes go a bit too far."
There may be hope for you yet.




5. "So anything I say is pointless. You believe it, therefor it must be true. Reality is secondary."

Bigot.

 

[t_polkow]

Hitler and our fundy Christians one and the same!


Adolf Hitler: Secular Schools Cannot be Tolerated
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.

- Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hitler and our fundy Christians one and the same!


Adolf Hitler: Secular Schools Cannot be Tolerated
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.

- Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

Sad.....you have neither the gift of irony, nor a knowledge of history.


Here is the tutorial which you are so sorely in need of:

The French Revolution, the first fascist movement(The political terms "Right" and "Left" were born in the French Revolution, when two different revolutionary factions took seats in the French National Assembly's hall: the Girondins on the right wing and the Jacobins on the left wing.)

1. It was totalitarian, nationalist, conspiratorial, and populist, the origin of the revolutionary tradition of the left.

2.[Robespierre] “is the prototype of a particularly odious kind of evildoer: the ideologue who believes that reason and morality are on the side of his butcheries. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are of the same mold. They are the characteristic scourges of humanity in modern times, but Robespierre has a good claim to being the first.” Why Robespierre Chose Terror by John Kekes, City Journal Spring 2006


3. Robespierre: We must exterminate all our enemies. “The people is always worth more than individuals…The people is sublime, but individuals are weak” or expendable.
http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf, p. 20


4. And, most conspicuous in fascism, the French Revolution turned politics into a religion, replacing Christianity with a secular faith in the Jacobin agenda. “The Jacobean atheism was integrated with rationalism, …and with the dismissal of Judeo-Christian scriptures.” Differences between Left & Right in their Psycho-Philosophic background




5. Toward this, he had a law passed requiring that children be taken from their parents and indoctrinated in boarding schools. (“Robespierre,” Colin Haydon (Editor), William Doyle (Editor), p. 97)

 

[Underhill]

Hitler and our fundy Christians one and the same!


Adolf Hitler: Secular Schools Cannot be Tolerated
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.

- Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

Sad.....you have neither the gift of irony, nor a knowledge of history.


Here is the tutorial which you are so sorely in need of:

The French Revolution, the first fascist movement(The political terms "Right" and "Left" were born in the French Revolution, when two different revolutionary factions took seats in the French National Assembly's hall: the Girondins on the right wing and the Jacobins on the left wing.)

1. It was totalitarian, nationalist, conspiratorial, and populist, the origin of the revolutionary tradition of the left.

2.[Robespierre] “is the prototype of a particularly odious kind of evildoer: the ideologue who believes that reason and morality are on the side of his butcheries. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are of the same mold. They are the characteristic scourges of humanity in modern times, but Robespierre has a good claim to being the first.” Why Robespierre Chose Terror by John Kekes, City Journal Spring 2006


3. Robespierre: We must exterminate all our enemies. “The people is always worth more than individuals…The people is sublime, but individuals are weak” or expendable.
http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf, p. 20


4. And, most conspicuous in fascism, the French Revolution turned politics into a religion, replacing Christianity with a secular faith in the Jacobin agenda. “The Jacobean atheism was integrated with rationalism, …and with the dismissal of Judeo-Christian scriptures.” Differences between Left & Right in their Psycho-Philosophic background




5. Toward this, he had a law passed requiring that children be taken from their parents and indoctrinated in boarding schools. (“Robespierre,” Colin Haydon (Editor), William Doyle (Editor), p. 97)

Every dictatorial ruler justifies his actions in such ways. It makes no difference if they are a believer or not.

Read your old testament. The Jews were brutal mass murderers all in the name of morality. The other side was evil therefor they must die. Men women and children in many cases.

 

[Underhill]

None of those stories are attacks on religious freedom. The NPR reporter can apologize for whatever he likes, as is his right. The Chaplin story leaves out a great deal. The VA changed its policies so as not to offend families who don't want prayers. John Edwards blogger is free to say anything he likes about catholic church policy and schools make judgement calls and sometimes go a bit too far.

But none of them are examples of a wide spread assaults on christianity. They are examples of christians pushing boundaries and society exploring where the lines are.

Should a child be reading bible stories to kids who's parents don't want them hearing it? It's not a big deal, but it could be seen as offensive. Would you want your kid listening to stories about Allah or Mohammad at school? I'm betting not.

I could go on but it doesn't matter. You are a believer. So anything I say is pointless. You believe it, therefor it must be true. Reality is secondary.

1. "None of those stories are attacks on religious freedom."
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


2. "They are examples of christians...."

They are examples of believers wishing for the same respect as non-believers.



3. "Should a child be reading bible stories to kids who's parents don't want them hearing it?"

You must be so dense that light bends around you!

What do you think the indoctrination of government schooling is based on?



4. "....sometimes go a bit too far."
There may be hope for you yet.




5. "So anything I say is pointless. You believe it, therefor it must be true. Reality is secondary."

Bigot.

So 4 out of 5 responses are insults. The 5th is a lie.

I would feel the same way about muslims, christians, mormans or budhist promoting their faith in schools. I do want equality for all these groups. Including my own. Obviously it is better to just leave religion out of schools rather than pick and choose. It doesn't harm your children in any way. In fact it protects them.

 

[t_polkow]

Hitler and our fundy Christians one and the same!


Adolf Hitler: Secular Schools Cannot be Tolerated
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.

- Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

Sad.....you have neither the gift of irony, nor a knowledge of history.


Here is the tutorial which you are so sorely in need of:

The French Revolution, the first fascist movement(The political terms "Right" and "Left" were born in the French Revolution, when two different revolutionary factions took seats in the French National Assembly's hall: the Girondins on the right wing and the Jacobins on the left wing.)

1. It was totalitarian, nationalist, conspiratorial, and populist, the origin of the revolutionary tradition of the left.

2.[Robespierre] “is the prototype of a particularly odious kind of evildoer: the ideologue who believes that reason and morality are on the side of his butcheries. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are of the same mold. They are the characteristic scourges of humanity in modern times, but Robespierre has a good claim to being the first.” Why Robespierre Chose Terror by John Kekes, City Journal Spring 2006


3. Robespierre: We must exterminate all our enemies. “The people is always worth more than individuals…The people is sublime, but individuals are weak” or expendable.
http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf, p. 20


4. And, most conspicuous in fascism, the French Revolution turned politics into a religion, replacing Christianity with a secular faith in the Jacobin agenda. “The Jacobean atheism was integrated with rationalism, …and with the dismissal of Judeo-Christian scriptures.” Differences between Left & Right in their Psycho-Philosophic background




5. Toward this, he had a law passed requiring that children be taken from their parents and indoctrinated in boarding schools. (“Robespierre,” Colin Haydon (Editor), William Doyle (Editor), p. 97)

Still a liar for your jesus

 

[koshergrl]

What are the lies?

You loons always say "You're a lying doodie head" but you can't actually point out the lies, can you?

 

[LittleNipper]

Hitler and our fundy Christians one and the same!


Adolf Hitler: Secular Schools Cannot be Tolerated
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.

- Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

Within the Lutheran Churches in Germany, the most prominent members of the Bekennende Kirche (Confessing Church), Martin Niemöller and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, opposed Nazism. They rejected the Nazi efforts to mix volkisch principles with traditional Lutheran doctrine. They were, however, (as of 1932) in the minority within the Protestant church bodies in Germany, compared to the Deutsche Christen, who supported National Socialism and cooperated with the Nazis. But in 1933, a number of Deutsche Christen left the movement after a November speech by Reinhold Krause that urged, among other things, the rejection of the Old Testament as Jewish superstition.

 

[LittleNipper]

The New York Times, on June 1, 1937, reported a Hitler speech referring specifically to the young: "We will take away their children. They shall not escape us."

 

[LittleNipper]

To help eliminate Catholic influence, Hitler turned to Alfred Rosenberg, arch-ideologue and convinced Nazi, who despised Christianity. In his book "The Myth of the Twentieth Century," Rosenberg formulated a "scientific" theory of racism. For him, the supreme human value was that of race. Individual races possessed their own collective soul, a mystical "power of the blood and soil. Each race also possessed a religious impulse. In the case of the Aryan Germans, this was the pagan cult of Wotan (king of the gods). Christianity, for Rosenberg, was the distorted product of Semitic tribes who had tricked the Aryans into replacing their "pagan truth." The Catholic Church, the prime mover in this spiritual "swindle," was singled out for sustained attack as the promoter of "prodigious, conscious and unconscious falsifications."
All during the 1930s, Rosenberg poured scorn on the Roman Catholic Church. The clergy, hierarchy and Vatican were vilified as poisoners of German blood, race-death merchants, race-swamp promoters, race contaminators, race-chaos merchants, obscurantists or "men of shadows," sorcerers of Rome, and, referring to the Jewish roots of Christianity, as advocates of perverted "Orientalism."

 

[LittleNipper]

After Hitler came to power the Nazi policy toward the churches was one of rigorous repression rather than sympathy and support is documented amply by J.S. Conway in his book "The Nazi Persecution of the Churches." Here are some of the repressive measures enumerated by Conway:

■arrests of clergy and incarceration in concentration camps
■murders of religious opponents of the regime
■physical assaults on clergymen ignored by the police
■academic, social, youth, labor, professional, women’s and athletic religious organizations and associations banned
■seizure of church property, including orphanages, hospitals, monasteries and schools (with religious insignias removed and teachers fired)
■Catholic civil servants dismissed
■church publications censored or forbidden
■religious meetings broken up by Sturmabteilung/SA (Brown Shirts) attacks
■dissolution of religious political parties
■attacks on church and Christianity in the press
■attempts to force all German churches into one state controlled church
■restriction of religious activities to church buildings only
■surveillance of worship services and church leaders
■public attacks on the church by Nazi leaders, including Goebbels and Goering
■criticisms of National Socialism or the government forbidden
■the establishment of new religious groups forbidden
■civil servants required to withdraw their children from religious youth organizations with loss of job the penalty for refusing to comply
■total submission of the church to the state in every respect
■“separation of church and state” meant the churches were allowed to have no say whatever in political questions
■high school teachers forbidden to be active in religious youth groups
■clergymen, including monks and nuns, arrested and tried on trumped up charges
■prayers forbidden at school assemblies
■removal of crucifixes and religious paintings from schools
■numerous independent religious groups banned completely

 

[t_polkow]

After Hitler came to power the Nazi policy toward the churches was one of rigorous repression rather than sympathy and support is documented amply by J.S. Conway in his book "The Nazi Persecution of the Churches." Here are some of the repressive measures enumerated by Conway:

■arrests of clergy and incarceration in concentration camps
■murders of religious opponents of the regime
■physical assaults on clergymen ignored by the police
■academic, social, youth, labor, professional, women’s and athletic religious organizations and associations banned
■seizure of church property, including orphanages, hospitals, monasteries and schools (with religious insignias removed and teachers fired)
■Catholic civil servants dismissed
■church publications censored or forbidden
■religious meetings broken up by SA attacks
■dissolution of religious political parties
■attacks on church and Christianity in the press
■attempts to force all German churches into one state controlled church
■restriction of religious activities to church buildings only
■surveillance of worship services and church leaders
■public attacks on the church by Nazi leaders, including Goebbels and Goering
■criticisms of National Socialism or the government forbidden
■the establishment of new religious groups forbidden
■civil servants required to withdraw their children from religious youth organizations with loss of job the penalty for refusing to comply
■total submission of the church to the state in every respect
■“separation of church and state” meant the churches were allowed to have no say whatever in political questions
■high school teachers forbidden to be active in religious youth groups
■clergymen, including monks and nuns, arrested and tried on trumped up charges
■prayers forbidden at school assemblies
■removal of crucifixes and religious paintings from schools
■numerous independent religious groups banned completely

The christian hitler could not of done what he did without the support of the churches and pope





Hitler's Christianity

Website Moved

 

[LittleNipper]

After Hitler came to power the Nazi policy toward the churches was one of rigorous repression rather than sympathy and support is documented amply by J.S. Conway in his book "The Nazi Persecution of the Churches." Here are some of the repressive measures enumerated by Conway:

■arrests of clergy and incarceration in concentration camps
■murders of religious opponents of the regime
■physical assaults on clergymen ignored by the police
■academic, social, youth, labor, professional, women’s and athletic religious organizations and associations banned
■seizure of church property, including orphanages, hospitals, monasteries and schools (with religious insignias removed and teachers fired)
■Catholic civil servants dismissed
■church publications censored or forbidden
■religious meetings broken up by SA attacks
■dissolution of religious political parties
■attacks on church and Christianity in the press
■attempts to force all German churches into one state controlled church
■restriction of religious activities to church buildings only
■surveillance of worship services and church leaders
■public attacks on the church by Nazi leaders, including Goebbels and Goering
■criticisms of National Socialism or the government forbidden
■the establishment of new religious groups forbidden
■civil servants required to withdraw their children from religious youth organizations with loss of job the penalty for refusing to comply
■total submission of the church to the state in every respect
■“separation of church and state” meant the churches were allowed to have no say whatever in political questions
■high school teachers forbidden to be active in religious youth groups
■clergymen, including monks and nuns, arrested and tried on trumped up charges
■prayers forbidden at school assemblies
■removal of crucifixes and religious paintings from schools
■numerous independent religious groups banned completely

The christian hitler could not of done what he did without the support of the churches and pope


Hitler's Christianity

Website Moved

The artist Hiter was nothing to speak of either. You are right, but for the wrong reasons. The churches of Germany were becoming "modern" and rejecting the truth of the Holy Bible. This resulted in them taking their eyes off of Christ and placing them on an earthly "savior." What I'm saying is, it WASN'T their CHRISTIANITY that allowed them to embrace Hitler. It amounted to the rejection of God's Word and the embracing of a social gospel. America is doing the very same thing today. Can an American version of Hitler be far behind? I for one do not think so. Americans are seeking a material savior and are rejecting GOD.

 

[LittleNipper]

Genesis 12:3 GOD'S PROMISE TO THE HEBREWS/ISRAEL/JEWS (proof of God)


New International Version (©2011)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

New Living Translation (©2007)
I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you."

English Standard Version (©2001)
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who treat you with contempt, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

International Standard Version (©2012)
I'll bless those who bless you, but I'll curse the one who curses you, and through you all the people of the earth will be blessed."

NET Bible (©2006)
I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, and all the families of the earth will bless one another by your name."

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you, I will curse. Through you every family on earth will be blessed."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American King James Version
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American Standard Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee, and IN THEE shall all the kindred of the earth be blessed:

Darby Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

English Revised Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Webster's Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

World English Bible
I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you. All of the families of the earth will be blessed in you."

Young's Literal Translation
And I bless those blessing thee, and him who is disesteeming thee I curse, and blessed in thee have been all families of the ground.'

 

[Hollie]

Genesis 12:3 GOD'S PROMISE TO THE HEBREWS/ISRAEL/JEWS (proof of God)


New International Version (©2011)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

New Living Translation (©2007)
I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you."

English Standard Version (©2001)
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who treat you with contempt, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

International Standard Version (©2012)
I'll bless those who bless you, but I'll curse the one who curses you, and through you all the people of the earth will be blessed."

NET Bible (©2006)
I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, and all the families of the earth will bless one another by your name."

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you, I will curse. Through you every family on earth will be blessed."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American King James Version
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American Standard Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee, and IN THEE shall all the kindred of the earth be blessed:

Darby Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

English Revised Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Webster's Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

World English Bible
I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you. All of the families of the earth will be blessed in you."

Young's Literal Translation
And I bless those blessing thee, and him who is disesteeming thee I curse, and blessed in thee have been all families of the ground.'

Nothing in your litany of quotes from the various bibles is of any consequence other than to demonstrate you can cut and paste from the various bibles. We know the bibles were written by men. It is mere dogma. That is why it is so prone to error. You post these "quotes", believing that they were authored by a supernatural entity when we know that they were authored by superstitious men who had a vested interest in manipulating the thoughts and actions of even more deeply superstitious people. Your certainly of these supernatural agents cripples your ability to even perceive your own mistakes. It is a great way of managing your own security. Too bad it's not also a great way of pursuing truth.

 

[t_polkow]

After Hitler came to power the Nazi policy toward the churches was one of rigorous repression rather than sympathy and support is documented amply by J.S. Conway in his book "The Nazi Persecution of the Churches." Here are some of the repressive measures enumerated by Conway:

■arrests of clergy and incarceration in concentration camps
■murders of religious opponents of the regime
■physical assaults on clergymen ignored by the police
■academic, social, youth, labor, professional, women’s and athletic religious organizations and associations banned
■seizure of church property, including orphanages, hospitals, monasteries and schools (with religious insignias removed and teachers fired)
■Catholic civil servants dismissed
■church publications censored or forbidden
■religious meetings broken up by SA attacks
■dissolution of religious political parties
■attacks on church and Christianity in the press
■attempts to force all German churches into one state controlled church
■restriction of religious activities to church buildings only
■surveillance of worship services and church leaders
■public attacks on the church by Nazi leaders, including Goebbels and Goering
■criticisms of National Socialism or the government forbidden
■the establishment of new religious groups forbidden
■civil servants required to withdraw their children from religious youth organizations with loss of job the penalty for refusing to comply
■total submission of the church to the state in every respect
■“separation of church and state” meant the churches were allowed to have no say whatever in political questions
■high school teachers forbidden to be active in religious youth groups
■clergymen, including monks and nuns, arrested and tried on trumped up charges
■prayers forbidden at school assemblies
■removal of crucifixes and religious paintings from schools
■numerous independent religious groups banned completely

The christian hitler could not of done what he did without the support of the churches and pope


Hitler's Christianity

Website Moved

The artist Hiter was nothing to speak of either. You are right, but for the wrong reasons. The churches of Germany were becoming "modern" and rejecting the truth of the Holy Bible. This resulted in them taking their eyes off of Christ and placing them on an earthly "savior." What I'm saying is, it WASN'T their CHRISTIANITY that allowed them to embrace Hitler. It amounted to the rejection of God's Word and the embracing of a social gospel. America is doing the very same thing today. Can an American version of Hitler be far behind? I for one do not think so. Americans are seeking a material savior and are

rejecting GOD.

??????!!!!!

Yes lets not History in the facts get in the way of delusions!

Jewish persecutions: banning Jews from working for public office, the enforcement of wearing yellow badges, the Jewish ghettos, burning of synagogues, and the extermination of Jews remind us of the atrocities committed by Nazis in WWII. However the atrocities above do not pertain to Nazi actions but rather the practices of Catholicism, centuries before Hitler came into power.

The seeds of Christian hatred for Jews begins from the readings of the New Testament and the persecutions began when the Church first held power to enforce its dogmas. The Biblical Paul, for example, put the blame of Jesus's death entirely on the Jews. In the first epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians (2:14-15), it says, "the Jews who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets...." Also the gospel of John, makes it clear that the Jews represent an enemy (and John 8:44 puts the devil as the father of the Jews). Many prominent priests used Paul's epistles and the gospels as Biblical justification for Jewish persecution.

Historical Christianity makes it clear that the Jews formed an essential part of early Christian theology. Examples include the letter of Barnabas (circa 130), Justin the Martyr's "Dialogue with the Jew Trypho" (circa 160), Tertullian's treatise against the Jews (circa 200), Orgin's work against Celsus (circa 250). The sermons by John Chrysostom in 387, especially, show an indigence against the Jews. Origen had written, "The blood of Jesus falls not only on the Jews of that time, but on all generations of Jews up to the end of the world." John Chrysostom wrote, "The Synagogue is a brothel, a hiding place for unclean beasts.... Never has any prayed to God.... They are possessed by demons." [Cornwell, pp. 24-25]

When Christianity became officially accepted for the state in the 4th century, the Christians began to act against the Jews. Constantine imposed heavy penalties on anyone who visited a pagan temple or converted to Judaism. Mixed marriages between Jews and Christians were punished by death. In the Codex Theodosianus of Theodosis II (408-450), it forbade Jews to hold any public office. It first came from Justinian who legalized the burning and pillaging of Jewish synagogues by Christian bishops and monks (often canonized later). Thomas Aquinas, in the treatise De regimine Judaeorum ad Ducissam Brabantae, made it acceptable for popes and kings to dispose of property belonging to the Jews.

Compelling Jews to wear yellow badges came from an invention of the Catholic Church. The Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 set up the Inquisition along with enforcement of Jews wearing a yellow spot on their clothes and a horned cap (pileum cornutum) to mark them as the murderers of Christ and to remind them of their descent from the devil. During the Black Death plague which ravaged Europe in the 14th century, the Catholic clergy aimed its blame at the Jews claiming they worked for the Devil and had poisoned the wells and springs. Their extermination compares with the pogroms that took place in the 20th century under Hitler. During the Spanish Inquisition, the Catholic Church directed its actions against the baptized Jews, the marranos. They forbade them to hold any office in the Church or the state; many suffered torture or death.

Popes have traditionally supported anti-Jewish acts and beliefs. Pope Paul IV in the sixteenth century established the Roman ghetto (another Catholic invention). For more than two centuries afterward, Catholics humiliated the Roman Jews and degraded them at the annual carnival. In the same century, Pope Gregory XIII instituted enforced Christian sermons insulting Judaism. [Cornwell, p. 299]. In a Papal custom Popes performed an anti-Jewish ceremony on their way to the basilica of St. John Lateran. Here the Pontiff would receive a copy of the Pentateuch from the hand of Rome's rabbi. The Pope then returned the text upside down with twenty pieces of gold, proclaiming that, while he respected the Law of Moses, he disapproved of the hard hearts of the Jewish race.

Forcing Jews, and heretics into the Catholic faith, of course has always served as a hallmark of Catholicism. When they could not legally use strong-arm tactics they used propaganda. Although most people associate the term with Hitler, propaganda actually came as an invention by the Catholics long before the Nazis, from the Sacra Congregatio de Propaganda Fide, an organization established by Pope Gregory XV in 1622.

In the 1930s, as the Catholic leaders listened to Hitler's rhetoric against the Jews during his appeal for power, his speeches condemning Jews only correlated with the Church's own long history of Jewish hatred. Indeed, in Hitler's meeting with Bishop Berning and Monsignor Steinmann on April 26, 1933, Hilter reminded his Catholic guests that the Church, for 1,500 years had regarded the Jews as parasites, had banished them into ghettos, and had forbidden Christians to work for them. Hitler said he merely intended to do more effectively what the Church had attempted to accomplish for so long. [Lewy]


Most German Protestants followed Luther (who they knew hated Jews) and believed in the sanctity of the secular authority and the supremacy of the authority over all religious organizations. To Luther, the head of the temporal state should also be head of "the church visible." [McGovern, p.650] On May 14, 1933, Ludwig Muller, a prominent member in the ranks of the German Christian Movement became the principle Bishop of the Evangelical German Reich Church.

Of course the thought of a state controlled national church could mean loss of control by the pastors of the Church. Naturally many pastors became concerned; some protested quietly to themselves and others, openly, by forming the Confessing Church. Nevertheless, most pastors allied themselves with the Nazi party and their anti-Semitic views got published in the Protestant press even before Hitler's election into power. The Protestant press influenced millions of its readers with the most prominent being the Sonntagsblatter, and the weekly Sunday newspapers. These weekly papers dwelled on religious piety and preached how they thought of Jews as "the natural enemies of the Christian-national tradition." [Goldhagen, 1996] As far as anyone knows, there had never occurred any visible or vocal church protest against the anti-Semitism of the Nazi party before it came into power. Considering that the majority of Germans at that time held anti-Semitic feelings (no doubt due mainly to religious preachings and propaganda), this should not surprise anyone. As many have pointed out, the religious rhetoric influenced Hitler during his youth.

Other pastors openly welcomed the Nazi's believing that the reintroduction of government by Christian authorities, affirmed St. Paul that "the power that be are ordained by God." (Romans 13:1). Under the continuing influence of the Lutheran Court Preacher Adolf Stocker, they believed that the future of German Lutheranism lay in obliterating the Jewish background of Christianity, and creating a national religion based on the traditions of German Christianity. They repeatedly stressed Luther's anti-Semitic statements.


Christianity in Europe during WWII

 

[LittleNipper]

Genesis 12:3 GOD'S PROMISE TO THE HEBREWS/ISRAEL/JEWS (proof of God)


New International Version (©2011)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

New Living Translation (©2007)
I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you."

English Standard Version (©2001)
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who treat you with contempt, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

International Standard Version (©2012)
I'll bless those who bless you, but I'll curse the one who curses you, and through you all the people of the earth will be blessed."

NET Bible (©2006)
I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, and all the families of the earth will bless one another by your name."

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you, I will curse. Through you every family on earth will be blessed."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American King James Version
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American Standard Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee, and IN THEE shall all the kindred of the earth be blessed:

Darby Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

English Revised Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Webster's Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

World English Bible
I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you. All of the families of the earth will be blessed in you."

Young's Literal Translation
And I bless those blessing thee, and him who is disesteeming thee I curse, and blessed in thee have been all families of the ground.'

Nothing in your litany of quotes from the various bibles is of any consequence other than to demonstrate you can cut and paste from the various bibles. We know the bibles were written by men. It is mere dogma. That is why it is so prone to error. You post these "quotes", believing that they were authored by a supernatural entity when we know that they were authored by superstitious men who had a vested interest in manipulating the thoughts and actions of even more deeply superstitious people. Your certainly of these supernatural agents cripples your ability to even perceive your own mistakes. It is a great way of managing your own security. Too bad it's not also a great way of pursuing truth.

The fact is no nation will destroy Israel. God said it and the Bible records it. But you are free to try and prove there is no God and that the Bible is wrong ---- if you like! Looks like the mistake is yours.

 

[Hollie]

Genesis 12:3 GOD'S PROMISE TO THE HEBREWS/ISRAEL/JEWS (proof of God)


New International Version (©2011)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

New Living Translation (©2007)
I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you."

English Standard Version (©2001)
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who treat you with contempt, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

International Standard Version (©2012)
I'll bless those who bless you, but I'll curse the one who curses you, and through you all the people of the earth will be blessed."

NET Bible (©2006)
I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, and all the families of the earth will bless one another by your name."

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you, I will curse. Through you every family on earth will be blessed."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American King James Version
And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.

American Standard Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee, and IN THEE shall all the kindred of the earth be blessed:

Darby Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

English Revised Version
and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Webster's Bible Translation
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

World English Bible
I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you. All of the families of the earth will be blessed in you."

Young's Literal Translation
And I bless those blessing thee, and him who is disesteeming thee I curse, and blessed in thee have been all families of the ground.'

Nothing in your litany of quotes from the various bibles is of any consequence other than to demonstrate you can cut and paste from the various bibles. We know the bibles were written by men. It is mere dogma. That is why it is so prone to error. You post these "quotes", believing that they were authored by a supernatural entity when we know that they were authored by superstitious men who had a vested interest in manipulating the thoughts and actions of even more deeply superstitious people. Your certainly of these supernatural agents cripples your ability to even perceive your own mistakes. It is a great way of managing your own security. Too bad it's not also a great way of pursuing truth.

The fact is no nation will destroy Israel. God said it and the Bible records it. But you are free to try and prove there is no God and that the Bible is wrong ---- if you like! Looks like the mistake is yours.

Of course, you would have to be omniscient to know for a “fact” that no nation will destroy Israel. Whether that happens or not is irreverent to any alleged prophesy in the bibles.

Yours is simply another account of an individual confusing metaphors with “facts”. Your certainty with “facts” carries many presumptions and biases. Your “fact” is entirely an artifact of your own apparent unhappiness that anyone should challenge your dogma. Perhaps you should deal with your own issues before cluttering the thread with conjecture disguised as “fact”.

Secondly, I don’t spend a great deal of time trying to disprove that which you are unable to offer the simplest and most basic proofs for. And yes, I have already disproved your gawds, You are free to prove I haven’t.

And yes, the bibles are frequently and profoundly wrong. I was simply pointing out that your rant was of the puerile sort that generally serves no pragmatic purpose other than to let the ranter blow off steam. It was absolutely not of any positive contribution to the thread, and certainly would do nothing more than further reduce any chance that the person you were addressing it to was likely to take seriously a thing you had to say.