Remember folks when you read this ...THERE WERE NEVER NEVER any WMDs!!!

[BlindBoo]

If memory serves correctly, I don't think anyone disputed the idea that Saddam's Iraq possessed chemical weapons.

The dispute was over nuclear weapons and their weaponized precursor components - none of which have been found, unless I've missed something.

No. The dispute was over WMD's which includes chemical weapons. The Liberals crucified Bush over his claim that Saddam had WMD's. Bush was right.

Actually the Bush Administrations claim was that they had re-constituted the chemical, biological and nuclear WMD programs and was actively producing and stockpiling large quantities of WMD, not that he retained remnants of old munitions from the Iran/Iraq war.

We found large stockpiles.

We found evidence that he was trying to reconstitute his chemical and bio weapons programs.

Some of them ended up in Syria, but because the trail from Saddam isn't perfectly clear, or isn't published yet by the NYT it must not exist.

From the OP.......

All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.

In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find.

 

[ClosedCaption]

MYTH is an appropriate name for him

 

[bodecea]

Wahhhhhhhhhh.................wah......................

You lost a couple of elections. You will lose more. And get old and die, just like the rest of us. Lifes a bitch, isn't it.

the truth is that the country lost the last two elections. obozo's current approval ratings verify that.

Golly gee...guess his reelection is not a sure thing then.

 

[BlindBoo]

You seem to be operating under the impression that I do not include chemical weapons under the WMD banner.

I do, indeed, include chemical weapons under the WMD banner.

I merely hold that the casus belli (the reason for going to war) for the Iraq War was NUCLEAR weapons - and their pursuit by the Iraq regime of those times.

This is not up for debate - this is a documented historical fact.

It is also a documented historical fact that no such weapons - nor their weaponized precursor components - were ever found.

Creating a condition in which the casus belli for the Iraq War proved to be false.

This, too, is not up for debate - this is a documented historical fact.

It was a false alarm - and, quite possibly, an intentionally contrived falsehood.

I don't like that any more than you do, but it is what it is.

I suppose then that Saddam was planning a very big birthday party with all of that yellow-cake.

I think that this revelation is a prime example of the difference between what is documented and what is reality.

The yellowcake removed from Iraq in 2008 was material that had long since been identified, documented, and stored in sealed containers under the supervision of U.N. inspectors. It was not a "secret" cache that was recently "discovered" by the U.S, and the yellowcake had not been purchased by Iraq in the years immediately preceding the 2003 invasion. The uranium was the remnants of decades-old nuclear reactor projects that had put out of commission many years earlier: One reactor at Al Tuwaitha was bombed by Israel in 1981, and another was bombed and disabled during Operation Desert Storm in 1991. Moreover, the fact that the yellowcake had been in Iraq since before the 1991 Gulf War was plainly stated in the Associated Press

snopes.com Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

Sure, that's why the UN left it there, because Saddam promised to be a good boy and never touch the stuff.

Fact is he never did, did he? He knew all hell would break loose if he did. Pappa Bush was really pissed off because we had no idea Saddam had a Manhattan Project style program for developing a nuclear weapon. Guess where he got the equipment to do that. Ronnie!

Yeah, Ronnie personally delivered it to him too.

Just like the way everything that happens in America has to be signed off personally by the president. Must be why nothing gets done now.All Obama does is play golf and fundraise. He doesn't have the time to work as hard as Reagan, GHWB, Clinton, or GWB.

Like I said earlier, our allies( well all sorts of companies from the allies) all sold duel use equipment and chemicals to Iraq after Raygun took Iraq off the list of nations who support terrorist.........So if you were a tax paying American in the 1980's you can say "And I Helped!".

 

[mudwhistle]

I suppose then that Saddam was planning a very big birthday party with all of that yellow-cake.

I think that this revelation is a prime example of the difference between what is documented and what is reality.

The yellowcake removed from Iraq in 2008 was material that had long since been identified, documented, and stored in sealed containers under the supervision of U.N. inspectors. It was not a "secret" cache that was recently "discovered" by the U.S, and the yellowcake had not been purchased by Iraq in the years immediately preceding the 2003 invasion. The uranium was the remnants of decades-old nuclear reactor projects that had put out of commission many years earlier: One reactor at Al Tuwaitha was bombed by Israel in 1981, and another was bombed and disabled during Operation Desert Storm in 1991. Moreover, the fact that the yellowcake had been in Iraq since before the 1991 Gulf War was plainly stated in the Associated Press

snopes.com Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

Sure, that's why the UN left it there, because Saddam promised to be a good boy and never touch the stuff.

Fact is he never did, did he? He knew all hell would break loose if he did. Pappa Bush was really pissed off because we had no idea Saddam had a Manhattan Project style program for developing a nuclear weapon. Guess where he got the equipment to do that. Ronnie!

Yeah, Ronnie personally delivered it to him too.

Just like the way everything that happens in America has to be signed off personally by the president. Must be why nothing gets done now.All Obama does is play golf and fundraise. He doesn't have the time to work as hard as Reagan, GHWB, Clinton, or GWB.

Like I said earlier, our allies( well all sorts of companies from the allies) all sold duel use equipment and chemicals to Iraq after Raygun took Iraq off the list of nations who support terrorist.........So if you were a tax paying American in the 1980's you can say "And I Helped!".

So in effect, he misused the stuff we sold him.

Is that our fault?

 

[mudwhistle]

If memory serves correctly, I don't think anyone disputed the idea that Saddam's Iraq possessed chemical weapons.

The dispute was over nuclear weapons and their weaponized precursor components - none of which have been found, unless I've missed something.

No. The dispute was over WMD's which includes chemical weapons. The Liberals crucified Bush over his claim that Saddam had WMD's. Bush was right.

Actually the Bush Administrations claim was that they had re-constituted the chemical, biological and nuclear WMD programs and was actively producing and stockpiling large quantities of WMD, not that he retained remnants of old munitions from the Iran/Iraq war.

We found large stockpiles.

We found evidence that he was trying to reconstitute his chemical and bio weapons programs.

Some of them ended up in Syria, but because the trail from Saddam isn't perfectly clear, or isn't published yet by the NYT it must not exist.

From the OP.......

All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.

In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find.

Yet you guys said it was all destroyed before it was found.

Funny thing is, I looked at brand-New M16s the Kuwaitis were carrying when I was over there. They hadn't cleaned them since they were purchased. They were in terrible shape. The hot weather and desert sands plays hell on everything they have, much less weapons they don't properly take care of, or stuff they might have buried instead of destroying as documented by inspectors.

 

[mudwhistle]

Mustard gas doesnt produce mushroom clouds

What's the difference between burns from mustard gas and a nuke blast? Mustard gas can cause burns for decades.

You mean the Manhattan Project was a waste of time? We could have wiped out Hiroshima with mustard gas?

lolol you guys have to be doing self-parody.

Mustard gas has been illegal since the Hague Convention of 1899.

And male seahorses can carry their young...both have nothing to do with mushroom clouds

Does it have to be a mushroom cloud to kill you?

Idiot!!!

 

[g5000]

Yet you guys said it was all destroyed before it was found.

Link?

Funny thing is, I looked at brand-New M16s the Kuwaitis were carrying when I was over there. They hadn't cleaned them since they were purchased. They were in terrible shape. The hot weather and desert sands plays hell on everything they have, much less weapons they don't properly take care of, or stuff they might have buried instead of destroying as documented by inspectors.

The chemicals which were found in the Iraqi caches were seriously degraded. Much more so than something new which has not been properly maintained.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Mustard gas doesnt produce mushroom clouds

What's the difference between burns from mustard gas and a nuke blast? Mustard gas can cause burns for decades.

You mean the Manhattan Project was a waste of time? We could have wiped out Hiroshima with mustard gas?

lolol you guys have to be doing self-parody.

Mustard gas has been illegal since the Hague Convention of 1899.

And male seahorses can carry their young...both have nothing to do with mushroom clouds

Does it have to be a mushroom cloud to kill you?

Idiot!!!

I'm not the one who said it. Mustard Gas doesnt produce mushroom clouds. And that was part of the justification for war...not mustard gas

 

[Lakhota]

Why didn't Bush destroy Saddam's old, abandoned chemical weapons? Bush has a lot to answer for.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

All the left wing masturbation over were there wmds, werent there wmds....

The only thing that mattered was that we ensured they didnt have the capability. Removing saddam was just a bonus....

Tough to grasp eh ? Lol

 

[mudwhistle]

Yet you guys said it was all destroyed before it was found.

Link?

Funny thing is, I looked at brand-New M16s the Kuwaitis were carrying when I was over there. They hadn't cleaned them since they were purchased. They were in terrible shape. The hot weather and desert sands plays hell on everything they have, much less weapons they don't properly take care of, or stuff they might have buried instead of destroying as documented by inspectors.

The chemicals which were found in the Iraqi caches were seriously degraded. Much more so than something new which has not been properly maintained.

I saw pictures of munitions that weren't all that degraded. Some were just dusty. Is that the same as degraded? Btw, how long do you think it takes for Mustard Gas to become degraded to the point it's harmless? I hear Sarin Gas begins to degrade immediately, but not Mustard agents.

I was trained on NBC while in the Navy and the Army. I'm waiting on your answer.

 

[mudwhistle]

Why didn't Bush destroy Saddam's old, abandoned chemical weapons? Bush has a lot to answer for.

Uh, The story is about what we discovered from 2003 - 2011.

 

[BlindBoo]

The yellowcake removed from Iraq in 2008 was material that had long since been identified, documented, and stored in sealed containers under the supervision of U.N. inspectors. It was not a "secret" cache that was recently "discovered" by the U.S, and the yellowcake had not been purchased by Iraq in the years immediately preceding the 2003 invasion. The uranium was the remnants of decades-old nuclear reactor projects that had put out of commission many years earlier: One reactor at Al Tuwaitha was bombed by Israel in 1981, and another was bombed and disabled during Operation Desert Storm in 1991. Moreover, the fact that the yellowcake had been in Iraq since before the 1991 Gulf War was plainly stated in the Associated Press

snopes.com Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

Sure, that's why the UN left it there, because Saddam promised to be a good boy and never touch the stuff.

Fact is he never did, did he? He knew all hell would break loose if he did. Pappa Bush was really pissed off because we had no idea Saddam had a Manhattan Project style program for developing a nuclear weapon. Guess where he got the equipment to do that. Ronnie!

Yeah, Ronnie personally delivered it to him too.

Just like the way everything that happens in America has to be signed off personally by the president. Must be why nothing gets done now.All Obama does is play golf and fundraise. He doesn't have the time to work as hard as Reagan, GHWB, Clinton, or GWB.

Like I said earlier, our allies( well all sorts of companies from the allies) all sold duel use equipment and chemicals to Iraq after Raygun took Iraq off the list of nations who support terrorist.........So if you were a tax paying American in the 1980's you can say "And I Helped!".

So in effect, he misused the stuff we sold him.

Is that our fault?

Nope, since it was known that he was using them on Iran and against the Kurds during the time the West supported him, and no sanctions of any kind were ever placed on him for using them, yeah we are somewhat culpable.

 

[Lakhota]

Why didn't Bush destroy Saddam's old, abandoned chemical weapons? Bush has a lot to answer for.

Uh, The story is about what we discovered from 2003 - 2011.

Duh, hence the question. Why didn't Bush, and later his newly installed Iraqi government, destroy those old, abandoned chemical weapons?

 

[mudwhistle]

What's the difference between burns from mustard gas and a nuke blast? Mustard gas can cause burns for decades.

You mean the Manhattan Project was a waste of time? We could have wiped out Hiroshima with mustard gas?

lolol you guys have to be doing self-parody.

Mustard gas has been illegal since the Hague Convention of 1899.

And male seahorses can carry their young...both have nothing to do with mushroom clouds

Does it have to be a mushroom cloud to kill you?

Idiot!!!

I'm not the one who said it. Mustard Gas doesnt produce mushroom clouds. And that was part of the justification for war...not mustard gas

No, dumb-ass, enough explosives will produce a mushroom cloud. The cloud is an indication of a nuclear burst close enough to the ground to cause fallout. The blinding flash is an indication of a nuclear chain-reaction. Then there's thermal radiation, as well as Gamma radiation, along with Alpha & Beta particles.

 

[rdean]

Funny. Republicans believed Bush when he said there were WMD's but refused to believe him when he said there were no WMD's. What changed? Did they suddenly believe he's a liar?

 

[BlindBoo]

If memory serves correctly, I don't think anyone disputed the idea that Saddam's Iraq possessed chemical weapons.

The dispute was over nuclear weapons and their weaponized precursor components - none of which have been found, unless I've missed something.

No. The dispute was over WMD's which includes chemical weapons. The Liberals crucified Bush over his claim that Saddam had WMD's. Bush was right.

Actually the Bush Administrations claim was that they had re-constituted the chemical, biological and nuclear WMD programs and was actively producing and stockpiling large quantities of WMD, not that he retained remnants of old munitions from the Iran/Iraq war.

We found large stockpiles.

We found evidence that he was trying to reconstitute his chemical and bio weapons programs.

Some of them ended up in Syria, but because the trail from Saddam isn't perfectly clear, or isn't published yet by the NYT it must not exist.

From the OP.......

All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.

In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find.

Yet you guys said it was all destroyed before it was found.

Funny thing is, I looked at brand-New M16s the Kuwaitis were carrying when I was over there. They hadn't cleaned them since they were purchased. They were in terrible shape. The hot weather and desert sands plays hell on everything they have, much less weapons they don't properly take care of, or stuff they might have buried instead of destroying as documented by inspectors.

President Bush didn't go to the nation and say Saddam was a threat to the worlds remaining superpower because he might have some old unusable munition that are deadly to handle buried or lost somewhere in Iraq now did he?

 

[Youch]

Bush's own team stated that Iraq had no WMD. So what are you silly asses trying to prove stating otherwise?

Rightwingers can never admit they were wrong. If they do, they get kicked out of the cult.

Nimrod.,

Please cite examples. Otherwise you are simply full of emotional TV bull stein.

ADVANCE THE DEBATE.

90% of the rightwingers on this board won't admit that Saddam didn't have any WMD's, even though Bush himself admitted it.

Read the forum.

Nimrod,

The consensus of the forum is irrelevant.

Saddam is documented to have used WMD against the Kurds, and likely some Iranians. I know, I was there, This is basic stuff. You cannot refute this.

I disagree with your simpleton descriptions of "right-wingers" as it is inaccurate by all measures.

Do some idiots on both sides fail to understand? Of course, because emotion is more powerful than knowledge. Sad.

 

[jknowgood]

If memory serves correctly, I don't think anyone disputed the idea that Saddam's Iraq possessed chemical weapons.

The dispute was over nuclear weapons and their weaponized precursor components - none of which have been found, unless I've missed something.

Chemical weapons were always included under the umbrella of WMDs. Also, it has been proven that saddam deliberately put out information that he was trying to establish nuclear capability.

His two son in laws revealed a long time ago that saddam was trying to get nuclear weapons. They were executed.

Nolo contendere.

Finding chemical weapons there was no surprise.

Finding nuclear weapons (or precursor components) would have validated the 2003 casus belli for invading Iraq.

Unfortunately, that never happened.

Again,, chemical weapons are certainly WMDs. Also, saddam put out false information (most likely on purpose) that he was in the process of attempting to get nuclear materials. That was probably true. He saw Iran as a true threat and he knew he would be in real danger if Iran became a nuclear power.

Again, his two son in laws revealed what he was wanting to do and the reasons why he kept his infrastructure for WMD production.

This was also clearly revealed by UNSCOM the UN independent council.

These unusable, leaking shells with unstable contents were not wmds

Moving the goal posts?