Republican drive to end social programs UNCONSTITUTIONAL

[johnrocks]

Comparing railroads to entitlement programs The country was still young, government provided the land grants but it also brought us some stains in our history too from the Chinese connection to Jesse James and others fighting the railroads /government in their land grabbing.

Jefferson Davis also played a role when he was Secretary of War, backroom deals were cut, crony capitalism in it's infancy and the result is the clusterfuck that we call government today.

I've yet to see an anarchist in this thread, there is something between that and the "Red Square Utopia" that so many here seem to embrace.

Isn't that something John? I'm still reeling from the nonsense exspoused by Jagger. He's trying to justify Big Government thinking the people do nothing without their sayso...or at least that's what he seems to want.

I just started back posting here and it truly is amazing to see so many that embrace such a strong government which is the entity that has killed more than plaques and stolen more than criminals, all under the guise of government. Hitler was the product of a strong government, not free markets or a Jeffersonian form of government.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

army.

what was your mos?

007 with maximum authority.

Great another soldier boy want to be.

 

[kwc57]

tax cuts are charity for people who get back more than they pay in

Hmmmmm. I'd change that to tax refunds instead of cuts. My brother did his 25 year old deadbeat stepson's taxes for him in 2009. He made all of $3,000 last year and paid in $37. He got an $800 refund. I wonder, who's money did he get.......because it wasn't his. Why is the gubmint in the charity business and giving hard working people's taxes to deadbeats.

 

[shintao]

Free enterprise didn't get the job done. But, big government did. A big nation needs a big government.

No they don't. Government produces nothing. They would be ZERO without the individual or business.

Are you one of the members of Chaos? People like you need government removed from your lives for about a month, and you would be begging and crying to get them back again. What do you mean government produces nothing? They produce wealth for businesses through the use of the military. They produce energy, and provide all of Americas resources for use. They fight the corporate battles all the time in courts. I think you need to re-analyze your statements, which are loose.

 

[Big Fitz]

It took a big government to build a big railroad for a big nation.

No it did not. It took government involvement because land rights were at stake. Lincoln was a railroad lawyer before he was president. He helped write railroad law that got many sticky issues figured out. He met with people like Ted Judah who helped survey the eventual route.

The fact that the railroads got alternating 1 square mile land grants was an incentive to make them profitable in the short term and give them the ability to set up their facilities. They then sold the rest in many cases to make money.

Don't forget also, the government paid only for connected track, and was often VERY late in payment. You also had a lot of corruption on the part of government as well. Credit Mobilier involved Ames Oakes and other congressmen who had to retire out of the scandal. And the scandal there was that the Union Pacific execs were in bed with kickbacks to US representatives as well as massively inflating the prices of doing work in cahoots with those in government meant to be responsible.

Government did nothing outside of make it possible for private contractors to do the job. Don't forget what the federal government was also preoccupied with at the same time to the exclusion of almost all other things...

...the Civil War.

There was no place for big government in the trans continental railroad. The fact it was built during the worst war we ever had in this nation is a miracle unto itself. When blasting the tunnel at Cape Horn used more gunpowder in a single day than was used at Antietam.

Educate yourself and read Stephen Ambrose's last book "Nothing Like It in the World" about the making of the transcontinental Railroad and see how little they did other than pass the laws for the Union and Central Pacific and promise money for doing this... and then dragging their feet come payday.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

tax cuts are charity for people who get back more than they pay in

Hmmmmm. I'd change that to tax refunds instead of cuts. My brother did his 25 year old deadbeat stepson's taxes for him in 2009. He made all of $3,000 last year and paid in $37. He got an $800 refund. I wonder, who's money did he get.......because it wasn't his. Why is the gubmint in the charity business and giving hard working people's taxes to deadbeats.

He needs to be aduited, because your brother did not do something right.

 

[Annie]

Everyone would benefit by reading the Federalist Papers. On this topic, #45 seems appropriate.

The Federal government has become what even strong federalists feared, superior to the states. The states have become lackeys.

It's time the people insist on more local control, much easier to get rid of the loons.

Local control doesn't work, we mind as well go back to the days where states forbid interracial marriages and the days when local police chiefs and mayors could sic dogs and police with water hoses on peaceful people.

Sorry, that dog no longer hunts.

 

[WillowTree]

Everyone would benefit by reading the Federalist Papers. On this topic, #45 seems appropriate.

The Federal government has become what even strong federalists feared, superior to the states. The states have become lackeys.

It's time the people insist on more local control, much easier to get rid of the loons.

Local control doesn't work, we mind as well go back to the days where states forbid interracial marriages and the days when local police chiefs and mayors could sic dogs and police with water hoses on peaceful people.

Sorry, that dog no longer hunts.

That dead dog is like the dead horse. They still beat it.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

Government produces nothing.

The U. S. Government produces General Motors vehicles, which earns profits, which go to reduce the budget deficit caused by the Bush Recession, the Bush tax cuts and the two wars Bush started.

 

[editec]

No...but he sure as HELL had to deal with tyranny.

Jefferson didn't get the Transcontinental Railroad built.

It took a big government to build a big railroad.

Only by Land Grants.

No it was way more complex a machination between private capital and public capital than that.

The builders also got paid for every mile of track they built and got to sell bonds to support their endeavors.

The transcontinental RR is one of the best examples of public and private cooperation working for the public good we have in history.

The material and people came privately. And it was for the promotion of Commerce...and thus the General Welfare of those involved directly or indirectly.

Precisely what they should be doing.

So what's your point?

You might find the following book interesting reading.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Like-World-Transcontinental-1863-1869/dp/0684846098"]Nothing Like It in the World: The Men Who Built the Transcontinental Railroad, 1863-1869[/ame]

I know I learned a lot I never learned in school about not only how it was built, but about how it was financed.

I highly recommend this book to those of you who don't believe that the government and the private capital can work together well and also serve the best interests of the commonweal.

This is a must read for extreme conservatives and extreme collectivists alike, in my opinion.

It'll buff some of your rough edges off your POVs, I hope.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

And exactly how has Big government gotten the job done?

It took big government to build that big canal in Panama.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And exactly how has Big government gotten the job done?

It took big government to build that big canal in Panama.

You support nation building I see?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Government produces nothing.

The U. S. Government produces General Motors vehicles, which earns profits, which go to reduce the budget deficit caused by the Bush Recession, the Bush tax cuts and the two wars Bush started.

Now how exactly did the government obtain control of a private sector enterprise?

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

I just started back posting here and it truly is amazing to see so many that embrace such a strong government which is the entity that has killed more than plaques and stolen more than criminals, all under the guise of government. Hitler was the product of a strong government, not free markets or a Jeffersonian form of government.

It was the big U. S. government that got rid of Hitler.

 

[editec]

And exactly how has Big government gotten the job done?

It took big government to build that big canal in Panama.

You support nation building I see?

the canal zone was US territory.

That's the payment the Panamanians paid us to help them declare their independence from Colombia.

Is that nation building or nation destroying?

Depends on how you look at it, I suppose.

 

[johnrocks]

I just started back posting here and it truly is amazing to see so many that embrace such a strong government which is the entity that has killed more than plaques and stolen more than criminals, all under the guise of government. Hitler was the product of a strong government, not free markets or a Jeffersonian form of government.

It was the big U. S. government that got rid of Hitler.

It was government that gave us the Treaty of Versailles, that brought about hyper inflation in the Wiemar Republic and gave the world Hitler to begin with.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It took big government to build that big canal in Panama.

You support nation building I see?

the canal zone was US territory.

That's the payment the Panamanians paid us to help them declare their independence from Colombia.

Is that nation building or nation destroying?

Depends on how you look at it, I suppose.

So Panama wasn't a country? it was a Territory

 

[kwc57]

tax cuts are charity for people who get back more than they pay in

Hmmmmm. I'd change that to tax refunds instead of cuts. My brother did his 25 year old deadbeat stepson's taxes for him in 2009. He made all of $3,000 last year and paid in $37. He got an $800 refund. I wonder, who's money did he get.......because it wasn't his. Why is the gubmint in the charity business and giving hard working people's taxes to deadbeats.

He needs to be aduited, because your brother did not do something right.

Wrong. He couldn't believe it and triple checked it before having a tax service look at it too.

 

[johnrocks]

Hmmmmm. I'd change that to tax refunds instead of cuts. My brother did his 25 year old deadbeat stepson's taxes for him in 2009. He made all of $3,000 last year and paid in $37. He got an $800 refund. I wonder, who's money did he get.......because it wasn't his. Why is the gubmint in the charity business and giving hard working people's taxes to deadbeats.

He needs to be aduited, because your brother did not do something right.

Wrong. He couldn't believe it and triple checked it before having a tax service look at it too.

It blows my mind, years ago I realized this crap happens while in the car business seeing people who worked just long enough each year to get a W-2 and get back MUCH MORE than they put in due to all the credits that government gives out.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

It took a big government to build a big railroad for a big nation.

No it did not.

It was Big Government that got the Big Railroad Built
​

The Pacific Railway Act of 1862, Officially entitled "AN ACT to aid in the construction of a railroad and telegraph line from the Missouri river to the Pacific ocean, and to secure to the government the use of the same for postal, military, and other purposes."

The Act authorized both the making of extensive land grants in the Western United States, and the issuance of 30-year, 6% U.S. Government Bonds, to the Union Pacific Railroad and Central Pacific Railroad companies in order to construct a transcontinental railroad.

The Act granted 10 square miles of public land for every mile laid except where railroads ran through cities and crossed rivers. The Bonds were issued at the rate of $16,000 per mile of tracked grade completed West of the designated base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains and East of the designated base of the Rocky Mountains.

From 1850-1871, the railroads received more than 175 million acres of public land - an area more than one tenth of the whole United States and larger than Texas.

The act specified a gauge to be used by the railroads of "four feet eight and one-half inches." A common gauge choice allowed easy transfer of cars between different railroad companies.