Republican’s VS. Democrat’s Health Care Plan

[Fraulein Hilda]

Dude is right. A cash healthcare system would bring down costs in a hurry. The third party payer bubble exists whether it's a single payer or 20.

 

[Oddball]

No argument here. This is one of the big problems with medical insurance. It's not really insurance........ insurance is supposed to cover a disaster, not routine maintenance. Unfortunately, like I said before- for individuals in NY it's 1 size fits all, that size costs $510 per person and is not anything close to resembling a product that I'd want to buy.

If there's no argument, then why did you invoke such a stupid and easily refutable argument??

 

[Seraega]

No, the private sector covers more than old people's medical and outpatient benefits.

And that 20% gets billed to somebody else.

You should feel lucky to live in a country where you can buy a health plan that works for you, and not the statists who give you no choices with your healthcare.

Have you not been following along? I live in a state that settled with the insurance companies 15 years ago. The deal went like this:

In exchange for insurance companies promising NEVER to deny an application for insurance, they get to fix their prices. YAY! Monopolies are great. So now everyone that can afford the inflated price can get lackluster coverage and there is absolutely no choice in policies.

I wish I lived in a country (state) where I could buy a plan that works for me. I could see ponying up $100 a month for a plan with a $5000 deductible and a health savings account attached that could gain value year after year until I have my first heart attack and actually need to start drawing down.

 

[Oddball]

Have you not been following along? I live in a state that settled with the insurance companies 15 years ago. The deal went like this:

In exchange for insurance companies promising NEVER to deny an application for insurance, they get to fix their prices. YAY! Monopolies are great. So now everyone that can afford the inflated price can get lackluster coverage and there is absolutely no choice in policies.

I wish I lived in a country (state) where I could buy a plan that works for me. I could see ponying up $100 a month for a plan with a $5000 deductible and a health savings account attached that could gain value year after year until I have my first heart attack and actually need to start drawing down.

Then how in the world could you argue in favor of more gubmint meddling in the market, rather than less??

 

[Meister]

No, the private sector covers more than old people's medical and outpatient benefits.

And that 20% gets billed to somebody else.

You should feel lucky to live in a country where you can buy a health plan that works for you, and not the statists who give you no choices with your healthcare.

Have you not been following along? I live in a state that settled with the insurance companies 15 years ago. The deal went like this:

In exchange for insurance companies promising NEVER to deny an application for insurance, they get to fix their prices. YAY! Monopolies are great. So now everyone that can afford the inflated price can get lackluster coverage and there is absolutely no choice in policies.

I wish I lived in a country (state) where I could buy a plan that works for me. I could see ponying up $100 a month for a plan with a $5000 deductible and a health savings account attached that could gain value year after year until I have my first heart attack and actually need to start drawing down.

New York is an expensive state to live in. What are you going to do, sponge off me? Sounds like we're back to square one

 

[DiveCon]

You're certainly entitled to hold that opinion. I'm wondering, however, why you wouldn't consider a system which results in 50% of our bankrupticies coming from unanticipated health emergencies and where 78 million people don't have basic health insurance a "fucking mess" already?

many of those 78 Million(a number that is hard to substantiate in the first place) CHOOSE not to get it, mostly because they are young and healthy and think they will live forever

Bullshit. I'm one of those 78 million and I don't get it because it would cost me over $1000 a month. You find a 20 something that just has an extra $12k a year laying around when we're trying to pay off our student loans and buy our first home.

not bullshit, then you dont fit in the MANY
sheeesh, dont be such a fucking whiner

 

[Seraega]

Have you not been following along? I live in a state that settled with the insurance companies 15 years ago. The deal went like this:

In exchange for insurance companies promising NEVER to deny an application for insurance, they get to fix their prices. YAY! Monopolies are great. So now everyone that can afford the inflated price can get lackluster coverage and there is absolutely no choice in policies.

I wish I lived in a country (state) where I could buy a plan that works for me. I could see ponying up $100 a month for a plan with a $5000 deductible and a health savings account attached that could gain value year after year until I have my first heart attack and actually need to start drawing down.

Then how in the world could you argue in favor of more gubmint meddling in the market, rather than less??

The only meddling I've argued for is the use of the commerce clause to take insurance regulation away from the states so that we can have a national exchange. I am partial to single payer, but I know that it's not realistic, so this is my second choice.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

I think that is a pretty good plan, but Barack Obama is not going to sock bottomfeeders with $5000 deductibles.

And public employees unions who have no premiums and dollar one coverage are not going to take a step backward with that.

That is the biggest barrier Barack Obama has to nationalized healthcare. Public employees unions have far better plans than he is going to ask everyone else to accept.

 

[Oddball]

The only meddling I've argued for is the use of the commerce clause to take insurance regulation away from the states so that we can have a national exchange. I am partial to single payer, but I know that it's not realistic, so this is my second choice.

But those are two diametrically opposed ideas!!

Political schizophrenia ain't pretty, folx!!

 

[DiveCon]

Private healthcare has dozens more benefits to administer than Medicare.

And Medicare shifts costs to private healthcare.

You're right, the private sector has a unique plan for every single employer or individual. So when a claim comes in you can't just rubber stamp it and issue a check for 80% of the cost... you have to go into your records, see what plan this customer has, how much that plan pays (if anything!) and then calculate whatever discount you have for that specific doctor... THEN finally after wasting about 5 minutes you can cut a check. Medicare took about 10 seconds to settle, private insurance, 5 minutes. Geeeeeeee, that sure looks like government waste to me.

are you fucking NUTZ????

you think it take private health providers 5 minutes?

they have that new fangles thing called "computers" today
you must be using one(btw, a PDA or cell phone is also a computer)

 

[Seraega]

The only meddling I've argued for is the use of the commerce clause to take insurance regulation away from the states so that we can have a national exchange. I am partial to single payer, but I know that it's not realistic, so this is my second choice.

But those are two diametrically opposed ideas!!

Political schizophrenia ain't pretty, folx!!

I'm not sure they're all that opposite. I'm an ends justify the means kind of guy... either way I'm hoping for some change that will lead to something better than the state currently allows.

 

[KittenKoder]

Private healthcare has dozens more benefits to administer than Medicare.

And Medicare shifts costs to private healthcare.

You're right, the private sector has a unique plan for every single employer or individual. So when a claim comes in you can't just rubber stamp it and issue a check for 80% of the cost... you have to go into your records, see what plan this customer has, how much that plan pays (if anything!) and then calculate whatever discount you have for that specific doctor... THEN finally after wasting about 5 minutes you can cut a check. Medicare took about 10 seconds to settle, private insurance, 5 minutes. Geeeeeeee, that sure looks like government waste to me.

are you fucking NUTZ????

you think it take private health providers 5 minutes?

they have that new fangles thing called "computers" today
you must be using one(btw, a PDA or cell phone is also a computer)

It amazes me, we have internet everywhere now, hospitals connect to it, pharmacies to, all our records can be placed onto it through a database, but the same people that want everyone on one health care plan also don't want everyone on one database ... go figure.

 

[DiveCon]

Mandating car insurance must be tyrannical too... or is it tyrannical to smash into somebody with your gigantic Hummer and pull out your pocket lint as payment since you're too greedy to pony up for a decent insurance policy?

Apples and atom bombs.

Auto insurance covers you in case you damage another's person or property....It doesn't cover your car for oil changes and new tires.

No argument here. This is one of the big problems with medical insurance. It's not really insurance........ insurance is supposed to cover a disaster, not routine maintenance. Unfortunately, like I said before- for individuals in NY it's 1 size fits all, that size costs $510 per person and is not anything close to resembling a product that I'd want to buy.

yet that is exactly what you are saying you want
but you want everyone else to PAY for it

 

[auditor0007]

You're certainly entitled to hold that opinion. I'm wondering, however, why you wouldn't consider a system which results in 50% of our bankrupticies coming from unanticipated health emergencies and where 78 million people don't have basic health insurance a "fucking mess" already?

many of those 78 Million(a number that is hard to substantiate in the first place) CHOOSE not to get it, mostly because they are young and healthy and think they will live forever

Bullshit. I'm one of those 78 million and I don't get it because it would cost me over $1000 a month. You find a 20 something that just has an extra $12k a year laying around when we're trying to pay off our student loans and buy our first home.

Is that $1000 per month for just you, or for your spouse and kids also? At a younger age, just out of college, you should be able to get a good policy for less than $200 per month. My issue with the insurance companies is that they do whatever they can to get you off of their insurance as soon as you get sick. But the fact is that no matter what type of system we have, healthcare is not free. It is, in fact, very expensive. Keeping those costs reasonable while making coverage available to everyone who is willing to pay for it is what is most important.

While I support the idea that something needs to change drastically, I know it isn't going to be free, and I fully expect to pay a fair share. However, I do not think anyone should pay over $1000 per month for single coverage.

 

[auditor0007]

Why do people want to depend on the government for things?

Well, I'm going to have to depend on the government since the private insurance companies fucked me. It's no longer an option for me.

 

[DiveCon]

You're right, the private sector has a unique plan for every single employer or individual. So when a claim comes in you can't just rubber stamp it and issue a check for 80% of the cost... you have to go into your records, see what plan this customer has, how much that plan pays (if anything!) and then calculate whatever discount you have for that specific doctor... THEN finally after wasting about 5 minutes you can cut a check. Medicare took about 10 seconds to settle, private insurance, 5 minutes. Geeeeeeee, that sure looks like government waste to me.

are you fucking NUTZ????

you think it take private health providers 5 minutes?

they have that new fangles thing called "computers" today
you must be using one(btw, a PDA or cell phone is also a computer)

It amazes me, we have internet everywhere now, hospitals connect to it, pharmacies to, all our records can be placed onto it through a database, but the same people that want everyone on one health care plan also don't want everyone on one database ... go figure.

no kidding
this guy wants everyone else to pay for something he isnt willing to pay for himself

and as for medicare, most seniors have to have supplemental coverage to cover what medicare DOESNT cover

 

[auditor0007]

Well, no, not since the Great Depression, actually it was under Jimmie Carter. I was referring to not buying a house in the economic downturn, and getting some insurance for you and your family....to where I don't have to pay for it. You know...the way most Americans do it, if thay can't find a job with any benefits. I have a feeling there are 2 cars in the family. Probably at least 2-3 TV's, and XBox or something like that. A couple of cell phones, and probably an IPOD or two. I have a feeling I'm not far off on this.

More great financial advice. I should pass up buying a house when there was a $7500 tax credit (now 8000) and <5% interest rates? Again, primary house is generally exempt from bankruptcy... where as any potential medical debt I could accrue in the future would be wiped out.

You're pretty far out there, don't kid yourself. I'm the kind of guy that does math before making a decision. You seem to be basing yours on emotion.

I can do a little math too, and I don't want to pay for your fucking health insurance. You figure out a way to do it yourself, just like I have. Fucking socialists!!

Well, actually, from what I've seen of this potential plan, you won't be paying for it. Everyone who works will pay for it. Employers who don't offer health insurance through a private company will pay a payroll tax, which will be paid by employee and employer. As for all those on Medicaid, Medicare, and all the other programs, we are already paying for those. In the end, having most people covered should reduce rates for those who have coverage through normal type insurance.

The part that I like is that if you work, you will pay for health coverage. When people who choose not to have insurance get sick or are in an accident, those who are insured end up paying for it anyway. Don't kid yourself Meister, you are paying for it now, and it will only get worse if everyone isn't forced to pay at least something toward their own care.

 

[oreo]

Part of the soaring costs we see in medical costs comes from people without insurance going into our expensive emergency rooms to get medical attention for common colds & flu symptons.

I like the idea of giving incentives to all pharmacy locations--Walmart, Walgreens, Rite Aid, etc. to keep nurse practitioners in their facilities--to where these people can go. They can get there quickly in most instances with these type symptons--without an appointment--get checked out by a nurse practitioners for a fee, & those that can't pay--should have state medicade. They are there & can get their prescription at the same time.

If we can eliminate the waste of tax payer dollars in our hospital emergency rooms--we can make a real dent in the cost of medical insurance premiums. Then the federal government is going to have to mandate that everyone carries at least castastrophic medical insurance. With everyone having to do that it will bring in private sector competition while dramatically reducing the medical insurance costs to all.

Free market solutions are ALWAYS better--cheaper-& more efficient than the Federal Government. In fact, I can't think of one federal government run program that they have not screwed up in the last 70 years.

 

[auditor0007]

The government is incapable of running a business this big.

They're incapable of running the gaddamn post office!!

Actually, the goverenment has done a great job running the post office. The current problems are due to the complete change that has taken place in the way we deliver our mail these days. Honestly, the Postal Service has seen its time, and now it is time to be shut down. Let Fed Ex, UPS, and any others that want to get into the junk mail business take over what is left of the Postal Service.

 

[auditor0007]

Mandating coverage = making people buy insurance who don't want it.

No tyrannical fist of government here.

Mandating car insurance must be tyrannical too... or is it tyrannical to smash into somebody with your gigantic Hummer and pull out your pocket lint as payment since you're too greedy to pony up for a decent insurance policy?

Young healthy people don't want to buy insurance. They are not smashing anything into anyone.

But at least we have gotten beyond the little fib that government won't force people to make health care decisions they would not have already made.

Young people don't want to pay for health insurance until they need it. Actually, it isn't just young people. Many people of all ages, who work for a living, choose not to be insured. Then guess who pays for it when they end up in the hospital? Everyone with insurance of course.