Republican’s VS. Democrat’s Health Care Plan

[auditor0007]

You're right, the private sector has a unique plan for every single employer or individual. So when a claim comes in you can't just rubber stamp it and issue a check for 80% of the cost... you have to go into your records, see what plan this customer has, how much that plan pays (if anything!) and then calculate whatever discount you have for that specific doctor... THEN finally after wasting about 5 minutes you can cut a check. Medicare took about 10 seconds to settle, private insurance, 5 minutes. Geeeeeeee, that sure looks like government waste to me.

Another brain dead argument that presumes everybody has (or at least should have) a third-party payer for their medical services.

A lot of people skip all that crap and pay cash.

And if you pay cash, you almost always pay nearly double what they would receive through insurance. It works backwards from the way you would think.

 

[oreo]

More great financial advice. I should pass up buying a house when there was a $7500 tax credit (now 8000) and <5% interest rates? Again, primary house is generally exempt from bankruptcy... where as any potential medical debt I could accrue in the future would be wiped out.

You're pretty far out there, don't kid yourself. I'm the kind of guy that does math before making a decision. You seem to be basing yours on emotion.

I can do a little math too, and I don't want to pay for your fucking health insurance. You figure out a way to do it yourself, just like I have. Fucking socialists!!

Well, actually, from what I've seen of this potential plan, you won't be paying for it. Everyone who works will pay for it. Employers who don't offer health insurance through a private company will pay a payroll tax, which will be paid by employee and employer. As for all those on Medicaid, Medicare, and all the other programs, we are already paying for those. In the end, having most people covered should reduce rates for those who have coverage through normal type insurance.

The part that I like is that if you work, you will pay for health coverage. When people who choose not to have insurance get sick or are in an accident, those who are insured end up paying for it anyway. Don't kid yourself Meister, you are paying for it now, and it will only get worse if everyone isn't forced to pay at least something toward their own care.

DITTO--Mitt Romney of Massachuttes found that of the uninsured in his state 45% of them made over 75,000.00 per year & could have easily afforded medical insurance. They instituted a plan like you & I are talking about mandating that everyone is covered--& it dramatically lowered medical insurance premiums to all. The poor--state medicade came into play. According to what I understand if you could have afforded medical insurance & didn't get it in Massachuttes & ended up in the hospital. You pay out of pocket for your services!

This is the way it should be. Our politicians are just scared to death to mandate this. They're afraid they're going to lose voters. Most of us who own cars are required to carry liability insurance--why not medical insurance too?

 

[auditor0007]

Part of the soaring costs we see in medical costs comes from people without insurance going into our expensive emergency rooms to get medical attention for common colds & flu symptons.

I like the idea of giving incentives to all pharmacy locations--Walmart, Walgreens, Rite Aid, etc. to keep nurse practitioners in their facilities--to where these people can go. They can get there quickly in most instances with these type symptons--without an appointment--get checked out by a nurse practitioners for a fee, & those that can't pay--should have state medicade. They are there & can get their prescription at the same time.

If we can eliminate the waste of tax payer dollars in our hospital emergency rooms--we can make a real dent in the cost of medical insurance premiums. Then the federal government is going to have to mandate that everyone carries at least castastrophic medical insurance. With everyone having to do that it will bring in private sector competition while dramatically reducing the medical insurance costs to all.

Free market solutions are ALWAYS better--cheaper-& more efficient than the Federal Government. In fact, I can't think of one federal government run program that they have not screwed up in the last 70 years.

That sounds a great deal like Switzerland's system. Health insurance is mandatory. If you don't purchase a policy, they purchase one for you and take it out of your wages automatically. Compliance is 99.5%. If you are a low income earner, the government supplements your healthcare premiums. You have all types of options as to what type of plan you want and what deductible you want. Employers do not provide group plans. Everyone has a private policy. No one can be denied, but of course, you are mandated to have coverage. The governement does put some restrictions on how much may be charged for certain procedures, but you can also purchase supplemental insurance if you want.

In the end, everyone is covered, the government portion is only 24% versus 45% here in the US, and total spending on healthcare is about only around 11% of GDP versus our current 17%. Also, while there are plenty of different companies to choose coverage from, most of the companies are non-profits.

 

[auditor0007]

I can do a little math too, and I don't want to pay for your fucking health insurance. You figure out a way to do it yourself, just like I have. Fucking socialists!!

Well, actually, from what I've seen of this potential plan, you won't be paying for it. Everyone who works will pay for it. Employers who don't offer health insurance through a private company will pay a payroll tax, which will be paid by employee and employer. As for all those on Medicaid, Medicare, and all the other programs, we are already paying for those. In the end, having most people covered should reduce rates for those who have coverage through normal type insurance.

The part that I like is that if you work, you will pay for health coverage. When people who choose not to have insurance get sick or are in an accident, those who are insured end up paying for it anyway. Don't kid yourself Meister, you are paying for it now, and it will only get worse if everyone isn't forced to pay at least something toward their own care.

DITTO--Mitt Romney of Massachuttes found that of the uninsured in his state 45% of them made over 75,000.00 per year & could have easily afforded medical insurance. They instituted a plan like you & I are talking about mandating that everyone is covered--& it dramatically lowered medical insurance premiums to all. The poor--state medicade came into play. According to what I understand if you could have afforded medical insurance & didn't get it in Massachuttes & ended up in the hospital. You pay out of pocket for your services!

This is the way it should be. Our politicians are just scared to death to mandate this. They're afraid they're going to lose voters. Most of us who own cars are required to carry liability insurance--why not medical insurance too?

I was a huge supporter of Mitt Romney. America lost out by choosing McCain over Romney, and then electing Obama. The guy understands that certain issues actually need to be addressed in a way that makes sense for everyone. Of course, many conservatives would argue that we shouldn't force anyone to carry health insurance. Yet they will continue to pay for those who don't, and argue that it's cheaper that way.

 

[DiveCon]

Well, actually, from what I've seen of this potential plan, you won't be paying for it. Everyone who works will pay for it. Employers who don't offer health insurance through a private company will pay a payroll tax, which will be paid by employee and employer. As for all those on Medicaid, Medicare, and all the other programs, we are already paying for those. In the end, having most people covered should reduce rates for those who have coverage through normal type insurance.

The part that I like is that if you work, you will pay for health coverage. When people who choose not to have insurance get sick or are in an accident, those who are insured end up paying for it anyway. Don't kid yourself Meister, you are paying for it now, and it will only get worse if everyone isn't forced to pay at least something toward their own care.

DITTO--Mitt Romney of Massachuttes found that of the uninsured in his state 45% of them made over 75,000.00 per year & could have easily afforded medical insurance. They instituted a plan like you & I are talking about mandating that everyone is covered--& it dramatically lowered medical insurance premiums to all. The poor--state medicade came into play. According to what I understand if you could have afforded medical insurance & didn't get it in Massachuttes & ended up in the hospital. You pay out of pocket for your services!

This is the way it should be. Our politicians are just scared to death to mandate this. They're afraid they're going to lose voters. Most of us who own cars are required to carry liability insurance--why not medical insurance too?

I was a huge supporter of Mitt Romney. America lost out by choosing McCain over Romney, and then electing Obama. The guy understands that certain issues actually need to be addressed in a way that makes sense for everyone. Of course, many conservatives would argue that we shouldn't force anyone to carry health insurance. Yet they will continue to pay for those who don't, and argue that it's cheaper that way.

i could easily have supported Romney over McCain
but i would have prefered Duncan Hunter
but he ran a horrible campaign

 

[Oddball]

And if you pay cash, you almost always pay nearly double what they would receive through insurance. It works backwards from the way you would think.

Bullshit.

I've been handed the invoices for the services rendered in cash-and-carry medical clinics... Prices that were clearly predetermined....And I paid those bills on the spot.

Don't even try to lie to me.

 

[DiveCon]

And if you pay cash, you almost always pay nearly double what they would receive through insurance. It works backwards from the way you would think.

Bullshit.

I've been handed the invoices for the services rendered in cash-and-carry medical clinics... Prices that were clearly predetermined....And I paid those bills on the spot.

Don't even try to lie to me.

i've done both, pay cash and have insurance cover
and the bills when i pay cash were usually WAY less than the billed for insurance

 

[Agnapostate]

People who want others to pay their healthcare will get their way.

But unemployment won't budge from 10%.

Does someone want to tell me how the country is better off for that?

Unemployment is merely a form of static inefficiency promoted under capitalism. This is a fixed element of the capitalist economy since a sufficiently high rate of equilibrium unemployment is necessary as a worker discipline device so as to prevent shirking and internal inefficiency. If you want to remedy this inefficiency, you'd best start waving your red flag.

Why do people want to depend on the government for things?

Another necessary component of capitalism. The state is an integral agent in the capitalist economy as a stabilizing agent, a means of protecting the private property of the financial class, etc.

Fucking socialists!!

Nothing more than your typical abuse of political economy. Socialism necessitates the collective ownership of the means of production.

The only one arguing from ignorance here is you, Skippy.

Being a college boy does not automatically make you omniscient.

Your first post here was dumb and they've just gotten progressively dumber since then. That you openly express contempt for the scientific process is a merit on your part; you at least have some degree of honesty.

The government is incapable of running a business this big. The only thing it has run properly has been the Military.

A poor example. Reagan's Military Keynesianism was merely a means of poor utilization of fiscal instruments.

 

[Oddball]

What did you do before you became The Oracle, junior??

 

[DiveCon]

What did you do before you became The Oracle, junior??

LOL nice one

 

[JW Frogen]

Free livers for everyone!!!!!!!!!

That is my political mantra.

*one liver per customer, kidneys not included.*

 

[Oddball]

LOL nice one

Now....Don't be so cynical!

Junior might come up with an answer.

 

[auditor0007]

And if you pay cash, you almost always pay nearly double what they would receive through insurance. It works backwards from the way you would think.

Bullshit.

I've been handed the invoices for the services rendered in cash-and-carry medical clinics... Prices that were clearly predetermined....And I paid those bills on the spot.

Don't even try to lie to me.

Do those clinics offer ultrasounds and CAT Scans. I need those one or the other every six months. If not, then your argument is completely moot. The only place I know of that will provide a CAT Scan is a hosptial. I'm not talking about going to see the doc about a sore throat so he can hand me a prescription for anitbiotics. So unless you can tell me of the local cash & carry clinic that offers those services, Bulllshit on you.

 

[auditor0007]

Free livers for everyone!!!!!!!!!

That is my political mantra.

*one liver per customer, kidneys not included.*

That's real fuckin funny for someone with cirrhosis.

 

[Oddball]

Do those clinics offer ultrasounds and CAT Scans. I need those one or the other every six months. If not, then your argument is completely moot. The only place I know of that will provide a CAT Scan is a hosptial. I'm not talking about going to see the doc about a sore throat so he can hand me a prescription for anitbiotics. So unless you can tell me of the local cash & carry clinic that offers those services, Bulllshit on you.

Fuck your CAT scans.

I've walked into places with GI problems and needing 'roids cut out....no need for CAT scans....and been turned away because I had no insurance, even though I had a pocket full of $100.00 bills.

You're the bullshitter....

Edit: Maybe we've hit on a counterintuitive problem....I'm open to considering that.

 

[auditor0007]

Do those clinics offer ultrasounds and CAT Scans. I need those one or the other every six months. If not, then your argument is completely moot. The only place I know of that will provide a CAT Scan is a hosptial. I'm not talking about going to see the doc about a sore throat so he can hand me a prescription for anitbiotics. So unless you can tell me of the local cash & carry clinic that offers those services, Bulllshit on you.

Fuck your CAT scans.

I've walked into places with GI problems and needing 'roids cut out....no need for CAT scans....and been turned away because I had no insurance, even though I had a pocket full of $100.00 bills.

You're a bullshitter....Period.

Nothing like making a complete idiot of yourself, is there? I have hemochromatosis, which is a genetic disorder that allows the body to absorb too much iron. Excess iron is stored in the liver and heart. Eventually the excess iron leads to cirrhosis of the liver, the same as copper overload does with Wilson's Disease. Once you have cirrhosis, your chance of developing liver cancer is 200 times greater, so CAT Scans are necessary to look for tumors. Because liver cancer spreads so quickly, early detection is the only chance of survival. By the time symptoms become evident, they give you three to six months and tell you to go home. Actually, they will treat you, but you die anyway.

So don't tell me what the fuck I need you dumb ass, because you are as clueless as a God Damn rock.

And let's look at your stupid ass statement. You were turned away from medical care with cash in hand? So much for your argument that paying out of pocket is cheaper. Hell, they wouldn't even treat you with the cash in hand.

Maybe you should quit the bullshitting and discuss something that you might actually have a clue about. I've seen every damn aspect of the healthcare industry. Besides my condition and problems, I lost my wife to leukemia, so don't try to act like you know something, because as I said, your as clueless as a damn rock.

 

[KittenKoder]

Free livers for everyone!!!!!!!!!

That is my political mantra.

*one liver per customer, kidneys not included.*

But the kidneys taste better.

 

[auditor0007]

Do those clinics offer ultrasounds and CAT Scans. I need those one or the other every six months. If not, then your argument is completely moot. The only place I know of that will provide a CAT Scan is a hosptial. I'm not talking about going to see the doc about a sore throat so he can hand me a prescription for anitbiotics. So unless you can tell me of the local cash & carry clinic that offers those services, Bulllshit on you.

Fuck your CAT scans.

I've walked into places with GI problems and needing 'roids cut out....no need for CAT scans....and been turned away because I had no insurance, even though I had a pocket full of $100.00 bills.

You're the bullshitter....

Edit: Maybe we've hit on a counterintuitive problem....I'm open to considering that.

And if you want a bit more info on hemochromatosis and my condition in particular, my ferritin level was over 7000 when I was diagnosed. Look it up asshole. They took 90 pints of blood out of me over 18 months to remove all the iron. They took a pint out every five to six days. Yea, I'm a fuckin bullshitter. What a dumb ass.

 

[Oddball]

Nothing like making a complete idiot of yourself, is there? I have hemochromatosis, which is a genetic disorder that allows the body to absorb too much iron. Excess iron is stored in the liver and heart. Eventually the excess iron leads to cirrhosis of the liver, the same as copper overload does with Wilson's Disease. Once you have cirrhosis, your chance of developing liver cancer is 200 times greater, so CAT Scans are necessary to look for tumors. Because liver cancer spreads so quickly, early detection is the only chance of survival. By the time symptoms become evident, they give you three to six months and tell you to go home. Actually, they will treat you, but you die anyway.

So don't tell me what the fuck I need you dumb ass, because you are as clueless as a God Damn rock.

And let's look at your stupid ass statement. You were turned away from medical care with cash in hand? So much for your argument that paying out of pocket is cheaper. Hell, they wouldn't even treat you with the cash in hand.

Maybe you should quit the bullshitting and discuss something that you might actually have a clue about. I've seen every damn aspect of the healthcare industry. Besides my condition and problems, I lost my wife to leukemia, so don't try to act like you know something, because as I said, your as clueless as a damn rock.

Dude...Take a Midol.

The fact that I was turned away from a clinic because I had no insurance has absolutely no bearing upon what were the ultimate costs for their services....It only comments upon which method of payment that they were willing to accept.....Which excluded cash payment.

What would it be like if you could afford to throw stacks of $100.00 bills at a provider of relatively minor medical services, and they said "no thanks"???

 

[Bass v 2.0]

This Democrats vs Republicans flap is the most divisive and stupid argument going on today. If anyone votes for a candidate solely based on party loyalty and doesn't consider what that candidate stands for they're idiots. As far as both parties are concerned, the only ones within both of these parties that have any sense and give America the best hope for progressing are those who are closer to the center and more moderate members, who not surprisingly are scorned by the more radical elements within the party. Accordingly, it would better to listen to and evaluate the views of the center-left and center-right on health care issues from both parties.