Republican’s VS. Democrat’s Health Care Plan

[DiveCon]

France, Canada and even Mexico's public health care programs have a greater emphasis on PREVENTIVE care. Remove the millions of people who don't see a doctor because they have no insurance and no cash to pay for emergency visits and who ultimately become more seriously ill because of it, and you wil have a far less expensive government health care program. That's not "rationing." That's common sense.

It's also a far stretch to compare this problem with that of the auto industry. Why should auto dealership employees sit around picking their noses when people aren't buying new cars? There will ALWAYS be a demand for health care.

Preventive care. Is that making sure people excercise, develop good hygiene habits and eat healthy ? Good luck with that

No, it's like myself who avoided seeing a doctor when bronchitis went on for over 14 days because I just assumed I would get better without prescribed antibiotics, and eventually it developed into pnemonia and I had to be rushed to the hospital to have my lungs suctioned to get rid of all the fluid that had collected BEFORE they could then put me on the antibiotics I SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKING at the outset.

Use your fucking heads for something more than hat racks, people.

so, a fucking moronic dumbass like YOU doesnt get health insurance and you want everyone else to pay for yours?

 

[DiveCon]

France, Canada and even Mexico's public health care programs have a greater emphasis on PREVENTIVE care. Remove the millions of people who don't see a doctor because they have no insurance and no cash to pay for emergency visits and who ultimately become more seriously ill because of it, and you wil have a far less expensive government health care program. That's not "rationing." That's common sense.

"Preventative care" is simply a cynical code phrase for putting gubmint in charge of everything all the time.

Find even the most strained link between Twinkies and one type of cancer or another?....Ban them!!

Buying into the trans-fat hype?....Ban them!!

Think people are too fat?...Appoint a "Fitness Csar" and use the power of bureaucracy to turn doctors into snitches for the state.

Of course, we all know how well this "preventative care" worked for guys like Jimmy Fixx...Don't we?

When Jim Fixx had his heart attack, even cigarettes weren't being taxed to pay for anyone's else care. Next?

so, you want to tax people who most likely cant afford their own healthcare already to pay for their healthcare?
yeah, that should worlk

 

[DiveCon]

Quit? And go where? WalMart?

Get out altogether. Retire early. Be forced out by government decisions closing "unnecessary" facilities.

There are already plenty of physicians and nurses who, after getting their degrees, realize that they can do much better financially in the corporate world. Doctors have given up practicing medicine in favor of "consulting" for Wall Street biggies. Any doctor worth his weight and who takes his oath seriously isn't going to whine like you over the possibility that he can't afford a second yacht.

Again, however, what "facilities" are you talking about? I don't even know of any medical practice in my medium-sized city that has gone out of business because their Medicare/caid allotments were cut. They always have the option of simply not taking those <gasp> welfare patients. Any new plan (AND THERE WILL BE ONE), will not dictate who a doctor's patients may be.

REALLY, so all those doctors that decide they dont want to be part of this plan that will limit the amount of income they can earn wont ever have any problems?


good luck getting doctors to be willing to make less
most will end up opting out of that plan
but we know what will happen then, don't we?

 

[Oddball]

When Jim Fixx had his heart attack, even cigarettes weren't being taxed to pay for anyone's else care. Next?

O.K....Now I'm certain you have NFI!!!

The purported excuses for the latest rounds of exorbitant taxes on cigarettes has been to pay for health programs for the sainted poooooor and the chiiiillllldrrreeeennnn. But, nearly without exception, those taxes collected have gone into general funds and been pissed away on other out-of-control do-gooder programs that have failed to contain their costs, while the health programs have been left wanting.

 

[DiveCon]

If someone is happy with their own pesonal health care insurance plan, THEY CAN KEEP IT. If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options. You need to do some serious homework, girl.

Local Health Departments and the Challenge of Chronic Disease: Lessons From California

Bullshit. Those plans are going to be taxed out of existence. The Democrats have admitted it's their stated goal. That's the only way the government can pay for the bottomfeeders plans.

I will have to settle for the same crappy plan everyone has.

Watch this:

Breitbart.tv » Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry

Not to worry. With your nasty attitude, someone will probably kill you first.

wow, what a bitch you are

 

[jillian]

not hardly
what the dems want will be a fucking mess

You're certainly entitled to hold that opinion. I'm wondering, however, why you wouldn't consider a system which results in 50% of our bankrupticies coming from unanticipated health emergencies and where 78 million people don't have basic health insurance a "fucking mess" already?

 

[DiveCon]

People who think the government will give them good healthcare are being lied to. People who think government will control the cost of healthcare without rationing are being lied to.

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for your healthcare?

Just because YOU parrot the "bottomfeeder" Limbaugh-Fox bullshit doesn't make it so. For one thing, government sponsored health care will continue to be an exremely contentious issue in the halls of Congress, no matter which party is in the majority, so it's highly doubtful that your prediction of doom will EVER come to pass. Quit your bitching. The time has come to put some controls on runaway health costs in this country.

Can you clownshoes debate anything by sticking to the issue and without demonizing Limbaugh or Fox News ? .........

no, they cant

 

[Oddball]

Riiiight.

And even more gubmint interference is supposed to contain costs how??

Have a model of success to work from....Any model??

 

[DiveCon]

If you don't like how I reply to your nonsense, then put me on ignore. It's interesting that someone who appears to be such a greedy, me-first-fuck-you holier-than-thou person...

See: Freudian projection. Basic Human Psychology 1: Neurosis, Projection and Freudian Projection

A REPUBLIC is a state or country that is not led by a hereditary monarch, in which the people (or at least a part of its people) have an impact on its government. The word 'republic' is derived from the Latin res publica which can be translated as "public thing".

A DEMOCRACY is a society in which all adults (the people) have easily accessible, meaningful, and effective ways:

--to participate in the decision-making processes of every organization that makes decisions or takes actions that affect them, and;

--to hold other individuals, and those in these organizations who are responsible for making decisions and taking actions, fully accountable if their decisions or actions violate fundamental human rights, or are dishonest, unethical, unfair, secretive, inefficient, unrepresentative, unresponsive or irresponsible, so that all organizations in the society are citizen-owned, citizen-controlled, and citizen-driven, and all individuals and organizations are held accountable for wrongdoing. [/I]

All of which oh-so conveniently, and not very cleverly, avoids Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution, and the writings of the framers of that document, both Federalist and Anti-federalist.

We DO NOT live in a DEMOCRACY!

Ahem, James Madison, one of the "framers" of the Constitution, defined in Federalist 39 that a "republic" is a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people.

Every few years, the great body of the people get to nominate representatives for themselves at ELECTIONS. Duh...

yes, thus we are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC

moron

 

[DiveCon]

People who think the government will give them good healthcare are being lied to. People who think government will control the cost of healthcare without rationing are being lied to.

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for your healthcare?

When you turn 65, you won't be paying for all of your healthcare any longer, or didn't you realize that. If everyone over 65 had to pay for their own healthcare, maybe 10% would be able to afford it. Everyone else would go without, and that would very likely include you unless you have a few million in the bank.

Actually, although you qualify for Social Security benefits at 65, Medicare doesn't kick in for two years after that.

now THAT is something that i agree, needs to change

 

[DiveCon]

Psst. It's Obama's war in Iraq, now.

And Afghanistan.

And Pakistan.

achtung, frau blucher, someone has to clean up the mess. i wish we didn't still have to, but your boy made sure we'll be paying for his mistakes for a very long time.

i hope you're really proud.

now again... try to stick to the subject. cause i've yet to see you prove anyone wrong or even raise a relevant point. you do have a lot of righteous indignation, though.

yeah, "our boy"
cause no democrats voted for it

 

[DiveCon]

If every government solution hasn't "worked," we would be a banana republic, and you'd be fishing out of the same lake you piss in.

Banana republics have lots of government. And leaders who throw former leaders in jail. And busineses that only exist at the pleasure of the ruling class. And not much else.

Thanks for making my point. The majority of Haitians piss in the same water they drink from because the autocratic government doesn't give a shit about its citizens.

wait, i thought Clinton fixed Haiti

 

[WillowTree]

Actually, although you qualify for Social Security benefits at 65, Medicare doesn't kick in for two years after that.

You have that backwards. SS is not 67, although you can take reduced benefits as early as age 62. Medicare kicks in at 65.

At 62 or 65, Medicare does not kick in until two years thereafter. There's a waiting period, which a lot of people are unaware of, although Medicaid would probably be an interim option if someone is relying only on the SS benefits which in most cases would meet the income eligibility formula.

You don't know your ass from a whole in the ground.. baby .... go find yourself a 65 year old person and they will tell you you are automatically enrolled in Medicare on your 65th birthday!

 

[DiveCon]

The point of insurance is to pool the risk, so that nobody ends up paying so much if they need such a procedure, because the fact is that very very few could afford it.

Very few people can afford to pay for a house out-of-pocket, too....What do you think the housing market would look like if we had "shelter insurance", using the same model??

What do you suppose the availability and costs of N.Y. strips would be if we had mandated "food insurance"??

NY Strips wouldnt be covered
no "red" meat would be
its all bad for you, remember

 

[American Horse]

You have that backwards. SS is not 67, although you can take reduced benefits as early as age 62. Medicare kicks in at 65.

At 62 or 65, Medicare does not kick in until two years thereafter. There's a waiting period, which a lot of people are unaware of, although Medicaid would probably be an interim option if someone is relying only on the SS benefits which in most cases would meet the income eligibility formula.

You don't know your ass from a whole in the ground.. baby .... go find yourself a 65 year old person and they will tell you you are automatically enrolled in Medicare on your 65th birthday!

You do have to enroll, but it's more or less a formality. It might be more of an indoctrination thing than anything else; so that an enrollee can get started educating themselves on the supplemental insurance and Part D (drugs). Willow is correct, a person is enrolled effectively on their 65th birthday.

I do wish people here knew more about that which they speak. Disinformation discourages a proper appreciation of the choices people have to make. It's akin to saying "there's no difference between the two parties" and what they offer. That rhetoric plays to ignorance, and ignorance is no sound basis from which to make sound decisions.

 

[auditor0007]

So you're suggesting a bank make a loan against someone's heart transplant?

Or patients could pay out-of-pocket.....Or the doctor or clinic performing the given procedures could have in-house financing.

There are lots of ways to pay for things in installments that don't involve banks.

People who use hospitals to finance their bills usually end up not paying. That's part of the problem.

 

[DiveCon]

not hardly
what the dems want will be a fucking mess

You're certainly entitled to hold that opinion. I'm wondering, however, why you wouldn't consider a system which results in 50% of our bankrupticies coming from unanticipated health emergencies and where 78 million people don't have basic health insurance a "fucking mess" already?

many of those 78 Million(a number that is hard to substantiate in the first place) CHOOSE not to get it, mostly because they are young and healthy and think they will live forever

 

[Oddball]

People who use hospitals to finance their bills usually end up not paying. That's part of the problem.

People without money or insurance who use the ERs usually end up not paying.

It's next to impossible to get any kind of in-house financing for procedures that don't come in through the ER.

In fact, people are turned away if they have no insurance, even if they have the cash in their pocket.....I know, it has happened to me.

 

[Agnapostate]

It does not make sense to fuck up the best system in the world just to insure a few million uninsured. Drag everyone else down. Give everyone the same coverage.

The "best system in the world"? To maintain such a ridiculous assertion, you'd have to challenge the empirical literature. For instance, what could you say to the work of Davis and her colleagues in Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International Update on the Comparative Performance of American Health Care? Consider the abstract:

The article presents an international update on the comparative performance of the health care system in the U.S. It was cited that the country consistently underperforms on most dimensions of performance despite having the most costly health system. Compared with Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, and Great Britain, the U.S. health care system ranks last or next-to-last on five dimensions of a high performance health system, including quality, access, efficiency, equity and health lives.

 

[Meister]

The waiting list for knee replacement surgery is 18 months in Canada.

The waiting list for cancer treatment is 28 days. How long did Ted Kennedy wait? Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

They have entire bureacracies there dedicated to nothing more than managing waiting lists.

But everyone gets free healthcare.

Teddy and Ruthie babie receive government healthcare. Bad example, lol.

Yes, but their government healthcare is much better than what John Q. Public's healthcare will be.