Republican tax cut will not trickle down

[The Derp]

Its not an idea its a fantasy and yes I'm opposed to your fantasy.

Why? Because you buy into Conservative bullshit propaganda because you're an idiot, or because you're paid to buy into it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I see I overestimated when I thought you had a room temperature IQ.

You are arguing the false position that a business owner doesn't want to make money.

You are arguing the false position that after tax profit is irrelevant.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Make the US a more friendly environment for business..

It already is.

mandated wage hike will result in more outsourcing.

Mandated wage hike = minimum wage. We have mandated wages already and those wages have resulted in an outsourcing of jobs. It's like you recognize what your argument is, but are playing dumb. Jobs have been outsourced at all the different "mandated wage increases" we've had the last 40+ years. So since your argument seems to be that high labor costs are what drives outsourcing, the only way to stop that flow is to eliminate the high labor costs. And that is accomplished solely by cutting wages.

ile enough taxes and regulations on businesses, some will leave.

But that's not what you said before. You said before that mandated wage hikes would drive out jobs, which means you think the minimum wage drives out jobs. So the only way to stop jobs from being driven out is to eliminate the minimum wage and lower the standard of living for Americans. That's your argument taken to its conclusion.

Why haven't all our jobs already been outsourced to Burkina Faso?

Because it's not wages that are the cause, duh! And plenty of jobs have already been outsourced. You seem to think it's because of wage mandates (AKA the minimum wage). If that's the case, then the only prescription is to lower American wages. But now you stop short of saying that because you know if you did, you'd have to admit that you think American workers are overpaid. And that's not a position you can or want to defend, obviously.

Mandate $15.....see what happens.

So they did that in Seattle and the result was a drop in the unemployment rate and an increase in wages.

Mandated wage hike = minimum wage. We have mandated wages already and those wages have resulted in an outsourcing of jobs.

Yes. The mandated wage has already cost jobs.
Raising it higher will cost additional jobs.
Glad you finally realize that.

But that's not what you said before.

I've always said that too many regulations will cause businesses to leave.
I've always said that high taxes will cause businesses to leave.

You said before that mandated wage hikes would drive out jobs

Absolutely.

which means you think the minimum wage drives out jobs.

Absolutely.

So the only way to stop jobs from being driven out is to eliminate the minimum wage

Not the only way.

Why haven't all our jobs already been outsourced to Burkina Faso?
​

Because it's not wages that are the cause, duh! ​

Wages aren't the cause of some jobs remaining here? Tell me more!

Mandate $15.....see what happens.​

​

So they did that in Seattle and the result was a drop in the unemployment rate and an increase in wages.​

What happened to minimum wage employment in Seattle?​

 

[The Derp]

Dumb. The last round of tax cuts increased revenue to the treasury vs the higher rates under Clinton.

No it didn't. That's a fucking lie. Revenue levels for 2001-2004 were below revenue levels for 2000.

Federal Receipt and Outlays
Receipts in current dollars (000s)
2000: $2,025.2
2001 (Bush Tax Cuts Passed, some enacted): $1,991.1
2002: $1,853.1
2003 (Bush Tax Cuts accelerated): $1,782.3
2004: $1,880.1

So we took four steps back to take one step forward. How many steps does that leave you behind? Revenue levels didn't surpass 2000 until 2005 and that was because of the housing bubble y'all were inflating to make the economy look like it was growing as a result of tax cuts when it was really going as a result of debt.

Of course this is adjusted for inflation dollars. Why do you want higher rates and lower revenue?

This Trump tax bill is going to raise your taxes, and by 2027 you'll be paying more in taxes than you do now, while also seeing a benefits cut to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. All so Trump's kids can inherit billions tax free. The tax increases on you are how Conservatives can pass the bill with just 50 votes; because if the individual tax cut were made permanent, the bill will add to the deficit beyond 10 years and require 60 votes in the Senate.

Oh, and it's also going to cause a housing crisis by dropping the value of every home in the country.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I refuse to accept that what a single, liberal CEO says about corporate behavior in the US will apply across millions of small, medium and large businesses.

Because you're a propagandist and a hack.

Yes, hacks would never accept a single, small example as proof for our entire $19 trillion economy......

 

[The Derp]

You are arguing the false position that after tax profit is irrelevant.

I never said it was irrelevant, I said it was existent. If a company is paying corporate income tax, it's because the company is profitable.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are arguing the false position that after tax profit is irrelevant.

I never said it was irrelevant, I said it was existent. If a company is paying corporate income tax, it's because the company is profitable.

I never said it was irrelevant,

You said you'd invest as much as you could in my new company, even with a 95% corporate tax.

If a company is paying corporate income tax, it's because the company is profitable.

Yup. And the owners only get to keep 5% of that profit in my example.

 

[The Derp]

Yes. The mandated wage has already cost jobs.

If that's what you think, then the only solution you can reach is that we should do away with mandates, period, and American workers should accept the same wages as Chinese ones in order to be competitive in the labor market. That's your position, dude; that Americans are overpaid and should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and working conditions commensurate with those in third world nations if they want to keep their jobs from going overseas (reality is most of the jobs aren't going overseas, they're going to robots).

I've always said that too many regulations will cause businesses to leave

No. That's not what you said in this thread. You said "wage mandates" (i.e. minimum wage increases) are what drives out jobs, and that's a load of shit for one, but for two, that argument means you think there shouldn't be a minimum wage at all and American workers should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and more dangerous working conditions in order to compete with foreign labor.

Me: You said before that mandated wage hikes would drive out jobs
You: Absolutely.
Me: Which means you think the minimum wage drives out jobs.
You: Absolutely.
Me: So the only way to stop jobs from being driven out is to eliminate the minimum wage
You: Not the only way.

But it is the only way since your argument is that American workers are overpaid. You've made wages the defining reason in this thread as to why jobs leave. So that means if we take that reasoning through to its conclusion; that you believe in order for jobs to not go to China, American workers must accept lower wages.

Why haven't all our jobs already been outsourced to Burkina Faso?

Because wages aren't the fucking reason why companies outsource, duh.

Wages aren't the cause of some jobs remaining here? Tell me more!

You're the one arguing that higher wages is what drives jobs out, so the only thing we can do in order to keep jobs is to lower wages. That's your argument.

What happened to minimum wage employment in Seattle?

Minimum wage employment declined and full time employment rose. So the minimum wage jobs became full time jobs, which is the goal, right? Unless you're now going to argue that people should be working part-time for low wages. Is that your argument now?​

 

[The Derp]

Yes, hacks would never accept a single, small example as proof for our entire $19 trillion economy......

No, hacks accept anonymous "small business owners" on message boards that confirm their bias.

 

[The Derp]

You said you'd invest as much as you could in my new company, even with a 95% corporate tax.

Yeah, because the company is profitable because you're paying an income tax. You only pay an income tax if you make a profit. Profitable companies tend to grow. I don't know how else I can explain business to you.

Yup. And the owners only get to keep 5% of that profit in my example.

Which is more? 5% or 0%?

 

[BluesLegend]

Its not an idea its a fantasy and yes I'm opposed to your fantasy.

Why? Because you buy into Conservative bullshit propaganda because you're an idiot, or because you're paid to buy into it.

Its not my fault your dream of a 90% punishment tax on the wealthy is a fantasy that will never come true.

 

[The Derp]

Its not my fault your dream of a 90% punishment tax on the wealthy is a fantasy that will never come true.

Why do you care what the top tax rate is? Do you fancy yourself a temporarily embarrassed billionaire?

 

[Boss]

Yes. The mandated wage has already cost jobs.

If that's what you think, then the only solution you can reach is that we should do away with mandates, period, and American workers should accept the same wages as Chinese ones in order to be competitive in the labor market. That's your position, dude; that Americans are overpaid and should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and working conditions commensurate with those in third world nations if they want to keep their jobs from going overseas (reality is most of the jobs aren't going overseas, they're going to robots).

I've always said that too many regulations will cause businesses to leave

No. That's not what you said in this thread. You said "wage mandates" (i.e. minimum wage increases) are what drives out jobs, and that's a load of shit for one, but for two, that argument means you think there shouldn't be a minimum wage at all and American workers should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and more dangerous working conditions in order to compete with foreign labor.

Me: You said before that mandated wage hikes would drive out jobs
You: Absolutely.
Me: Which means you think the minimum wage drives out jobs.
You: Absolutely.
Me: So the only way to stop jobs from being driven out is to eliminate the minimum wage
You: Not the only way.

But it is the only way since your argument is that American workers are overpaid. You've made wages the defining reason in this thread as to why jobs leave. So that means if we take that reasoning through to its conclusion; that you believe in order for jobs to not go to China, American workers must accept lower wages.

Why haven't all our jobs already been outsourced to Burkina Faso?

Because wages aren't the fucking reason why companies outsource, duh.

Wages aren't the cause of some jobs remaining here? Tell me more!

You're the one arguing that higher wages is what drives jobs out, so the only thing we can do in order to keep jobs is to lower wages. That's your argument.

What happened to minimum wage employment in Seattle?

Minimum wage employment declined and full time employment rose. So the minimum wage jobs became full time jobs, which is the goal, right? Unless you're now going to argue that people should be working part-time for low wages. Is that your argument now?​

Minimum Wage Increases, Wages, and Low-Wage Employment: Evidence from Seattle

This paper evaluates the wage, employment, and hours effects of the first and second phase-in of the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance, which raised the minimum wage from $9.47 to as much as $11 per hour in 2015 and to as much as $13 per hour in 2016. Using a variety of methods to analyze employment in all sectors paying below a specified real hourly rate, we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by around 3 percent. Consequently, total payroll fell for such jobs, implying that the minimum wage ordinance lowered low-wage employees’ earnings by an average of $125 per month in 2016. Evidence attributes more modest effects to the first wage increase. We estimate an effect of zero when analyzing employment in the restaurant industry at all wage levels, comparable to many prior studies.

 

[The Derp]

This paper evaluates the wage, employment, and hours effects of the first and second phase-in of the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance, which raised the minimum wage from $9.47 to as much as $11 per hour in 2015 and to as much as $13 per hour in 2016. Using a variety of methods to analyze employment in all sectors paying below a specified real hourly rate, we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by around 3 percent. Consequently, total payroll fell for such jobs, implying that the minimum wage ordinance lowered low-wage employees’ earnings by an average of $125 per month in 2016. Evidence attributes more modest effects to the first wage increase. We estimate an effect of zero when analyzing employment in the restaurant industry at all wage levels, comparable to many prior studies.

Ha! Yeha, you know why low-wage workers earnings declined? BECAUSE THOSE WORKERS BECAME FULL-TIME WORKERS, so their wages weren't low-wage anymore.

Wages for low-wages workers declined because the pool of low-wage workers was reduced by the migration of those workers to full-time, higher-paying jobs.

That's why Seattle's unemployment rate dropped to below the national average.

You're here lamenting the decline in low-wage jobs, crying crocodile tears over the growth of Seattle's wages and decline in unemployment rate.

Just curious, what is a "low-wage employee"? What's the range of wages there? Any clue?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes. The mandated wage has already cost jobs.

If that's what you think, then the only solution you can reach is that we should do away with mandates, period, and American workers should accept the same wages as Chinese ones in order to be competitive in the labor market. That's your position, dude; that Americans are overpaid and should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and working conditions commensurate with those in third world nations if they want to keep their jobs from going overseas (reality is most of the jobs aren't going overseas, they're going to robots).

I've always said that too many regulations will cause businesses to leave

No. That's not what you said in this thread. You said "wage mandates" (i.e. minimum wage increases) are what drives out jobs, and that's a load of shit for one, but for two, that argument means you think there shouldn't be a minimum wage at all and American workers should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and more dangerous working conditions in order to compete with foreign labor.

Me: You said before that mandated wage hikes would drive out jobs
You: Absolutely.
Me: Which means you think the minimum wage drives out jobs.
You: Absolutely.
Me: So the only way to stop jobs from being driven out is to eliminate the minimum wage
You: Not the only way.

But it is the only way since your argument is that American workers are overpaid. You've made wages the defining reason in this thread as to why jobs leave. So that means if we take that reasoning through to its conclusion; that you believe in order for jobs to not go to China, American workers must accept lower wages.

Why haven't all our jobs already been outsourced to Burkina Faso?

Because wages aren't the fucking reason why companies outsource, duh.

Wages aren't the cause of some jobs remaining here? Tell me more!

You're the one arguing that higher wages is what drives jobs out, so the only thing we can do in order to keep jobs is to lower wages. That's your argument.

What happened to minimum wage employment in Seattle?

Minimum wage employment declined and full time employment rose. So the minimum wage jobs became full time jobs, which is the goal, right? Unless you're now going to argue that people should be working part-time for low wages. Is that your argument now?​

If that's what you think, then the only solution you can reach is that we should do away with mandates, period,

Sounds good.

American workers should accept the same wages as Chinese ones in order to be competitive in the labor market.

American workers are much more productive than Chinese workers.
More productive workers earn more than less productive workers.

You said "wage mandates" (i.e. minimum wage increases) are what drives out jobs,

Yes, wage mandates drive out jobs, NOT wage mandates are the only thing that drives out jobs. ESL?

What happened to minimum wage employment in Seattle?

Minimum wage employment declined

Thanks for playing!!!

So the minimum wage jobs became full time jobs, which is the goal, right?

Minimum wages jobs were all part time before? LOL!

 

[Boss]

This paper evaluates the wage, employment, and hours effects of the first and second phase-in of the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance, which raised the minimum wage from $9.47 to as much as $11 per hour in 2015 and to as much as $13 per hour in 2016. Using a variety of methods to analyze employment in all sectors paying below a specified real hourly rate, we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by around 3 percent. Consequently, total payroll fell for such jobs, implying that the minimum wage ordinance lowered low-wage employees’ earnings by an average of $125 per month in 2016. Evidence attributes more modest effects to the first wage increase. We estimate an effect of zero when analyzing employment in the restaurant industry at all wage levels, comparable to many prior studies.

Ha! Yeha, you know why low-wage workers earnings declined? BECAUSE THOSE WORKERS BECAME FULL-TIME WORKERS, so their wages weren't low-wage anymore.

Wages for low-wages workers declined because the pool of low-wage workers was reduced by the migration of those workers to full-time, higher-paying jobs.

That's why Seattle's unemployment rate dropped to below the national average.

You're here lamenting the decline in low-wage jobs, crying crocodile tears over the growth of Seattle's wages and decline in unemployment rate.

Just curious, what is a "low-wage employee"? What's the range of wages there? Any clue?

Ha! Yeha, you know why low-wage workers earnings declined? BECAUSE THOSE WORKERS BECAME FULL-TIME WORKERS, so their wages weren't low-wage anymore.

From the report: we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent.

So you're just flat out lying and it's right here in black and white. Then you have the gall to make the ridiculous argument that since your policy totally destroyed low wage jobs that low wage employees weren't harmed because those jobs were eliminated! Hey, we can solve the health care crisis... everyone just drink a cup of arsenic and croak! If we eliminate about 90% of the population we'll have plenty of abundant health care!

Your idiotic policy in Seattle cost the working poor $125 a month.

 

[Boss]

You said "wage mandates" (i.e. minimum wage increases) are what drives out jobs, and that's a load of shit for one, but for two, that argument means you think there shouldn't be a minimum wage at all....

Let me ask you a question and see if you can answer it....

When was the last time black unemployment was lower than white unemployment in America? I realize you may not believe black unemployment has ever been lower than white unemployment but it was at one time. Can you tell us when?

There is a reason for my asking and I will elaborate when you answer.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You said you'd invest as much as you could in my new company, even with a 95% corporate tax.

Yeah, because the company is profitable because you're paying an income tax. You only pay an income tax if you make a profit. Profitable companies tend to grow. I don't know how else I can explain business to you.

Yup. And the owners only get to keep 5% of that profit in my example.

Which is more? 5% or 0%?

Yeah, because the company is profitable because you're paying an income tax.

Excellent!.
The average tax on corporate profit in the US economy is about 22.6% from 2010-2016.
Nobody will change their behavior if it's suddenly 95%. DURR!

Which is more? 5% or 0%?

80% is more.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes. The mandated wage has already cost jobs.

If that's what you think, then the only solution you can reach is that we should do away with mandates, period, and American workers should accept the same wages as Chinese ones in order to be competitive in the labor market. That's your position, dude; that Americans are overpaid and should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and working conditions commensurate with those in third world nations if they want to keep their jobs from going overseas (reality is most of the jobs aren't going overseas, they're going to robots).

I've always said that too many regulations will cause businesses to leave

No. That's not what you said in this thread. You said "wage mandates" (i.e. minimum wage increases) are what drives out jobs, and that's a load of shit for one, but for two, that argument means you think there shouldn't be a minimum wage at all and American workers should accept lower wages, a lower standard of living, and more dangerous working conditions in order to compete with foreign labor.

Me: You said before that mandated wage hikes would drive out jobs
You: Absolutely.
Me: Which means you think the minimum wage drives out jobs.
You: Absolutely.
Me: So the only way to stop jobs from being driven out is to eliminate the minimum wage
You: Not the only way.

But it is the only way since your argument is that American workers are overpaid. You've made wages the defining reason in this thread as to why jobs leave. So that means if we take that reasoning through to its conclusion; that you believe in order for jobs to not go to China, American workers must accept lower wages.

Why haven't all our jobs already been outsourced to Burkina Faso?

Because wages aren't the fucking reason why companies outsource, duh.

Wages aren't the cause of some jobs remaining here? Tell me more!

You're the one arguing that higher wages is what drives jobs out, so the only thing we can do in order to keep jobs is to lower wages. That's your argument.

What happened to minimum wage employment in Seattle?

Minimum wage employment declined and full time employment rose. So the minimum wage jobs became full time jobs, which is the goal, right? Unless you're now going to argue that people should be working part-time for low wages. Is that your argument now?​

Minimum Wage Increases, Wages, and Low-Wage Employment: Evidence from Seattle

This paper evaluates the wage, employment, and hours effects of the first and second phase-in of the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance, which raised the minimum wage from $9.47 to as much as $11 per hour in 2015 and to as much as $13 per hour in 2016. Using a variety of methods to analyze employment in all sectors paying below a specified real hourly rate, we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by around 3 percent. Consequently, total payroll fell for such jobs, implying that the minimum wage ordinance lowered low-wage employees’ earnings by an average of $125 per month in 2016. Evidence attributes more modest effects to the first wage increase. We estimate an effect of zero when analyzing employment in the restaurant industry at all wage levels, comparable to many prior studies.

we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by around 3 percent.

Hours worked were reduced?
I guess DERP lied when he said those jobs became full time..............

 

[Flash]

These stupid Moon Bats are confused.

Every analysis that I have seen of the proposed tax cuts has my family paying several thouand dollars less in filthy Federal government taxes.

That is money that I will spend on what I want in the efficient private sector instead of being forced to giving it some stupid bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt asshole politician, elected by greedy special interest groups.

If that ain't trickle down then nothing is.

These stupid Moon Bats thinks prosperity is somehow magically created when money is taken away by the filthy government from the people that earned the money and then given away to the welfare queens.