Republicans are afraid to propose spending cuts!

[Jarhead]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

Your condescending attitude is not necessary.

I am debating you. If I learn, great...but I dont need you to imply that "I need yopur help".
It is a childsih attitude.

Correct. It was a choice (to not dumb-down my response.)

I dont debate those that believe the best way to debate is to be condescending.
It is not my style and it takes away from BOTH particiapnts the oppoortunity to learn

 

[Oldstyle]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

 

[Jarhead]

A research paper recommending 70% top tax rate (one of the authors is a Nobel Prize winner):
http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/diamond-saezJEP11opttax.pdf

Am I really supposed to be impressed with the fact that someone won a Nobel Prize these days?

No, not while being an idiot. A sensible person, on the other hand, would know the different between a Nobel in Economics and a Peace prize.

in the late 1970's, I watched co NPP winners jeopardize their popularity with their constituants in an effort to acheive true peace.

I watched Obama win the same prize by reading speeches that were written by his speech writers.

 

[Oldstyle]

A research paper recommending 70% top tax rate (one of the authors is a Nobel Prize winner):
http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/diamond-saezJEP11opttax.pdf

Am I really supposed to be impressed with the fact that someone won a Nobel Prize these days?

No, not while being an idiot. A sensible person, on the other hand, would know the different between a Nobel in Economics and a Peace prize.

And a "sensible" person would know that simply stating that your argument is correct because a Nobel Prize winner agrees with you doesn't carry the same weight that it used to.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

You don't think the Nobel Prize has become politicized? Fine...tell me what Barack Obama did to earn a Nobel Peace Prize?

here you go:

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 - Press Release

so EFFORT is now the criteria?

Not acheivments?

WHy didnt his speech writers get the prize? Or better yet, why didnt the tax payer get the prize seeing as we paid for his speech wrioters AND his transportation to get to the places where he made the speeches.

All he did was take a free ride, and the speeches written for him and read them off a teleprompter. That is now all one needs to do to win a NPP?

do you even know what the word "effort" means?

Noun:
A vigorous or determined attempt.
The result of an attempt.

if you prefer the word result, that can be substituted by definition.

 

[Jarhead]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

actualyl...

ROI is a concrete number...sometimes known before the investment (such as US Savings bonds) and sometimes known when one is ready to divest.

ANTICIPATED ROI is what most investors use to determine whether or not an investment is worthy

SO he is really not wrong.

 

[Koios]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

and just an FYI...

To say "you have a grand to invest and where should yopuy invest it" is was too generic to answer. There is no information regarding the surrounding environment that helps determine an ROI for ANY investment.

For example....I decided this month to make 3 mortgage payments for the write off advantages.....why? Becuase the market rally...if there is one...will not produce the same financial advantages as the write off will.

If this were April...I may do something different.

Why? Have you nothing that you believe worthwhile?

If it were me, with only a grand, I'd go with an index fund. Over the last four years, those in them have doubled their investment. So it seems like some ROI could presist. Maybe the grand is worth more, four years from now. In this instance, I'm serving a desire to make money off a bet that's proven a winner, thus I think it has opportunity.

If I were Warren Buffett, and had greater resources, I'd buy Dyson. They're to industrial design of household appliances, what Apple is to industrialo design of consumer electronics. Thus it'll hold value, even as its market commoditizes more so.

 

[ilia25]

And even in the paper that your liberal economists put out advocating raising taxes they admit the following: "Of course, increasing upper income tax
rates can discourage economic activity through behavioral responses, and hence
potentially reduce tax collections, creating the standard equity-efficiency trade-off
discussed in the introduction."

What they're admitting is that there is a natural response to higher taxes and that response is to move capital into investments that aren't taxed at the new higher rate.

Hahahahahaha. I'm just guessing, a Nobel in economics might not be in your immediate future.

Note "potentially" and "behavorial responses." It's not an economic dynamic, it's a confidence thing, akin to the consumer confidence index, which is FAR more of a concern, economically.

But it's largely a moot assumption. Investment is driven by opportunity. Period. So even if investors are slow on the draw, they will not leave low-hanging fruit dangling too long, if for no other reason, others might snap it up before they do. In the end, little if any real opportunity, is ever left unfunded. Someone always gets after it.

Investment is driven by the anticipation of profit. Period. When you raise taxes, you lower profits.

Not true. You are confusing the business profitability with the owner's personal income. Personal taxes affect the latter, but not the former.

 

[Jarhead]

here you go:

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 - Press Release

so EFFORT is now the criteria?

Not acheivments?

WHy didnt his speech writers get the prize? Or better yet, why didnt the tax payer get the prize seeing as we paid for his speech wrioters AND his transportation to get to the places where he made the speeches.

All he did was take a free ride, and the speeches written for him and read them off a teleprompter. That is now all one needs to do to win a NPP?

do you even know what the word "effort" means?

Noun:
A vigorous or determined attempt.
The result of an attempt.

if you prefer the word result, that can be substituted by definition.

Stop acting like a child....you do not need to be condescending.

How "voigorous" an attempt was made when he reasd speeches wtritten by his speech writers?

 

[Oldstyle]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

actualyl...

ROI is a concrete number...sometimes known before the investment (such as US Savings bonds) and sometimes known when one is ready to divest.

ANTICIPATED ROI is what most investors use to determine whether or not an investment is worthy

SO he is really not wrong.

No, he's still wrong. Anticipated ROI is not the same as ROI, is it Jar? One is a concrete number...the other is an educated guess.

 

[Jarhead]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

and just an FYI...

To say "you have a grand to invest and where should yopuy invest it" is was too generic to answer. There is no information regarding the surrounding environment that helps determine an ROI for ANY investment.

For example....I decided this month to make 3 mortgage payments for the write off advantages.....why? Becuase the market rally...if there is one...will not produce the same financial advantages as the write off will.

If this were April...I may do something different.

Why? Have you nothing that you believe worthwhile?

If it were me, with only a grand, I'd go with an index fund. Over the last four years, those in them have doubled their investment. So it seems like some ROI could presist. Maybe the grand is worth more, four years from now. In this instance, I'm serving a desire to make money off a bet that's proven a winner, thus I think it has opportunity.

If I were Warren Buffett, and had greater resources, I'd buy Dyson. They're to industrial design of household appliances, what Apple is to industrialo design of consumer electronics. Thus it'll hold value, even as its market commoditizes more so.

and as I said./....in my case, I would do exactly what I am doing right now...maxiumizing my interest and RE tyax write off for 2012 and makiing max payments into mine and my wifes tax deferred retirement accounts......that 13K will have a return in April of about 5K.....

If this were...say May.....I would not be thinking about tax write offs and I may do differently.

 

[Jarhead]

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

actualyl...

ROI is a concrete number...sometimes known before the investment (such as US Savings bonds) and sometimes known when one is ready to divest.

ANTICIPATED ROI is what most investors use to determine whether or not an investment is worthy

SO he is really not wrong.

No, he's still wrong. Anticipated ROI is not the same as ROI, is it Jar? One is a concrete number...the other is an educated guess.

yes....and I thought that was what he was saying.

 

[Koios]

Your condescending attitude is not necessary.

I am debating you. If I learn, great...but I dont need you to imply that "I need yopur help".
It is a childsih attitude.

Correct. It was a choice (to not dumb-down my response.)

I dont debate those that believe the best way to debate is to be condescending.
It is not my style and it takes away from BOTH particiapnts the oppoortunity to learn

Okay. I'll seek counseling to help me cope with the loss, and some pills, too, just to be safe.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

really? can you give me the concrete number if i invest $1000 in the verizon stock? id like to know what my concrete ROI is going to be.

 

[Oldstyle]

Hahahahahaha. I'm just guessing, a Nobel in economics might not be in your immediate future.

Note "potentially" and "behavorial responses." It's not an economic dynamic, it's a confidence thing, akin to the consumer confidence index, which is FAR more of a concern, economically.

But it's largely a moot assumption. Investment is driven by opportunity. Period. So even if investors are slow on the draw, they will not leave low-hanging fruit dangling too long, if for no other reason, others might snap it up before they do. In the end, little if any real opportunity, is ever left unfunded. Someone always gets after it.

Investment is driven by the anticipation of profit. Period. When you raise taxes, you lower profits.

Not true. You are confusing the business profitability with the owner's personal income. Personal taxes affect the latter, but not the former.

Business profits are increased or decreased by tax increases or cuts just as someone's personal income would be. I fail to see your point.

 

[Koios]

and just an FYI...

To say "you have a grand to invest and where should yopuy invest it" is was too generic to answer. There is no information regarding the surrounding environment that helps determine an ROI for ANY investment.

For example....I decided this month to make 3 mortgage payments for the write off advantages.....why? Becuase the market rally...if there is one...will not produce the same financial advantages as the write off will.

If this were April...I may do something different.

Why? Have you nothing that you believe worthwhile?

If it were me, with only a grand, I'd go with an index fund. Over the last four years, those in them have doubled their investment. So it seems like some ROI could presist. Maybe the grand is worth more, four years from now. In this instance, I'm serving a desire to make money off a bet that's proven a winner, thus I think it has opportunity.

If I were Warren Buffett, and had greater resources, I'd buy Dyson. They're to industrial design of household appliances, what Apple is to industrialo design of consumer electronics. Thus it'll hold value, even as its market commoditizes more so.

and as I said./....in my case, I would do exactly what I am doing right now...maxiumizing my interest and RE tyax write off for 2012 and makiing max payments into mine and my wifes tax deferred retirement accounts......that 13K will have a return in April of about 5K.....

If this were...say May.....I would not be thinking about tax write offs and I may do differently.

Yeah; I caught that but overlooked it since it is not tax advantage. When you accelerate your mortage payments, it goes to principle, not interest, and thus cannot be written off (or shouldn't be).

Check with your tax preparer on that.

 

[ilia25]

And a "sensible" person would know that simply stating that your argument is correct because a Nobel Prize winner agrees with you doesn't carry the same weight that it used to.

I was replying to a claim that high taxes are bad according to Econ 101, and that people claiming otherwise hadn't listened to their Economics professor.

That is why I linked a study by a Nobel prize winner.

 

[Oldstyle]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

really? can you give me the concrete number if i invest $1000 in the verizon stock? id like to know what my concrete ROI is going to be.

Obviously nobody knows for certain what the price of Verizon stock will be in the future. What I do know for certain is that if you raise the taxes that I have to pay on any potential profit I make from owning that stock...that my ROI will be lower than if that tax didn't exist.

 

[Oldstyle]

And a "sensible" person would know that simply stating that your argument is correct because a Nobel Prize winner agrees with you doesn't carry the same weight that it used to.

I was replying to a claim that high taxes are bad according to Econ 101, and that people claiming otherwise hadn't listened to their Economics professor.

That is why I linked a study by a Nobel prize winner.

Higher taxes aren't good or bad...if you're a believer in Keynesian economic theory then you view taxes as a tool...a tool that you can utilize to slow down overheated economies and prevent bubbles. Using higher taxes to grow a weak economy isn't Keynesian economic theory.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

really? can you give me the concrete number if i invest $1000 in the verizon stock? id like to know what my concrete ROI is going to be.

Obviously nobody knows for certain what the price of Verizon stock will be in the future. What I do know for certain is that if you raise the taxes that I have to pay on any potential profit I make from owning that stock...that my ROI will be lower than if that tax didn't exist.

so youre basically saying you lied. ROI is not a concrete number after all.

so i can now officially refer to you as a liar. thanks for clearing that up.