Republicans are afraid to propose spending cuts!

[Jarhead]

Hahahahahaha. I'm just guessing, a Nobel in economics might not be in your immediate future.

Note "potentially" and "behavorial responses." It's not an economic dynamic, it's a confidence thing, akin to the consumer confidence index, which is FAR more of a concern, economically.

But it's largely a moot assumption. Investment is driven by opportunity. Period. So even if investors are slow on the draw, they will not leave low-hanging fruit dangling too long, if for no other reason, others might snap it up before they do. In the end, little if any real opportunity, is ever left unfunded. Someone always gets after it.

Investment is driven by the anticipation of profit. Period. When you raise taxes, you lower profits.

Not true. You are confusing the business profitability with the owner's personal income. Personal taxes affect the latter, but not the former.

Actually...you are mistaken.

An owners personal income FROM his/her company IS his ROI.

You need to think like a business owner.

 

[Jarhead]

Why? Have you nothing that you believe worthwhile?

If it were me, with only a grand, I'd go with an index fund. Over the last four years, those in them have doubled their investment. So it seems like some ROI could presist. Maybe the grand is worth more, four years from now. In this instance, I'm serving a desire to make money off a bet that's proven a winner, thus I think it has opportunity.

If I were Warren Buffett, and had greater resources, I'd buy Dyson. They're to industrial design of household appliances, what Apple is to industrialo design of consumer electronics. Thus it'll hold value, even as its market commoditizes more so.

and as I said./....in my case, I would do exactly what I am doing right now...maxiumizing my interest and RE tyax write off for 2012 and makiing max payments into mine and my wifes tax deferred retirement accounts......that 13K will have a return in April of about 5K.....

If this were...say May.....I would not be thinking about tax write offs and I may do differently.

Yeah; I caught that but overlooked it since it is not tax advantage. When you accelerate your mortage payments, it goes to principle, not interest, and thus cannot be written off (or shouldn't be).

Check with your tax preparer on that.

I suggest you check with YOUR tax preparer.

You are entitled to make extra mortgage payments per year...and have them attributed to the subsequent months. For example...if I make one today, one tomorrow and one on Wednesday.....I will be paying the december, January and February payments. It is legal and it is a common practice.

I must assume you do not own your own home. Paying off principal is a competely different scenario...and has an effect on the amount of mortgage payments down the road........paying in advance monthly invoices is done for tax advantages.....and my monthly payments will stay the same.

 

[Koios]

and as I said./....in my case, I would do exactly what I am doing right now...maxiumizing my interest and RE tyax write off for 2012 and makiing max payments into mine and my wifes tax deferred retirement accounts......that 13K will have a return in April of about 5K.....

If this were...say May.....I would not be thinking about tax write offs and I may do differently.

Yeah; I caught that but overlooked it since it is not tax advantage. When you accelerate your mortage payments, it goes to principle, not interest, and thus cannot be written off (or shouldn't be).

Check with your tax preparer on that.

I suggest you check with YOUR tax preparer.

You are entitled to make extra mortgage payments per year...and have them attributed to the subsequent months. For example...if I make one today, one tomorrow and one on Wednesday.....I will be paying the december, January and February payments. It is legal and it is a common practice.

I must assume you do not own your own home. Paying off principal is a competely different scenario...and has an effect on the amount of mortgage payments down the road........paying in advance monthly invoices is done for tax advantages.....and my monthly payments will stay the same.

Doesn't help this year nor have a net effect next year. It just reduces the interest on the principle.

 

[Jarhead]

Meanwhile, what is ROI? It's the hope / result of perceived opportunity.

Here, let me help you: say you have grand to invest. Where would you invest it; and why?

Return on investment isn't "hope" or "perceived opportunity". It's a concrete number. It's what one makes in profit for the investment of capital.

Let me help "you".

If you had a grand to invest...and if you invest it before Jan your profits will be taxed at a 30% rate but if you wait until the new year your taxes will increase to 40%. Now would you be more apt to invest your capital in the same venture BEFORE the first of the year or after? Duh?

really? can you give me the concrete number if i invest $1000 in the verizon stock? id like to know what my concrete ROI is going to be.

you will not know it until you are ready to divest.

ROI is a concrete number. Anticipated ROI is the unknown.

 

[Jarhead]

Yeah; I caught that but overlooked it since it is not tax advantage. When you accelerate your mortage payments, it goes to principle, not interest, and thus cannot be written off (or shouldn't be).

Check with your tax preparer on that.

I suggest you check with YOUR tax preparer.

You are entitled to make extra mortgage payments per year...and have them attributed to the subsequent months. For example...if I make one today, one tomorrow and one on Wednesday.....I will be paying the december, January and February payments. It is legal and it is a common practice.

I must assume you do not own your own home. Paying off principal is a competely different scenario...and has an effect on the amount of mortgage payments down the road........paying in advance monthly invoices is done for tax advantages.....and my monthly payments will stay the same.

Doesn't help this year nor have a net effect next year. It just reduces the interest on the principle.

you are incorrect.
I suggest you look into it if you own your own home.

 

[Koios]

I suggest you check with YOUR tax preparer.

You are entitled to make extra mortgage payments per year...and have them attributed to the subsequent months. For example...if I make one today, one tomorrow and one on Wednesday.....I will be paying the december, January and February payments. It is legal and it is a common practice.

I must assume you do not own your own home. Paying off principal is a competely different scenario...and has an effect on the amount of mortgage payments down the road........paying in advance monthly invoices is done for tax advantages.....and my monthly payments will stay the same.

Doesn't help this year nor have a net effect next year. It just reduces the interest on the principle.

you are incorrect.
I suggest you look into it if you own your own home.

You may be confusing the prepaid interest deduction, which if there's a penalty, it may be deductable.

 

[Oldstyle]

really? can you give me the concrete number if i invest $1000 in the verizon stock? id like to know what my concrete ROI is going to be.

Obviously nobody knows for certain what the price of Verizon stock will be in the future. What I do know for certain is that if you raise the taxes that I have to pay on any potential profit I make from owning that stock...that my ROI will be lower than if that tax didn't exist.

so youre basically saying you lied. ROI is not a concrete number after all.

so i can now officially refer to you as a liar. thanks for clearing that up.

ROI "is" a concrete number. Estimated ROI is not. You seem to be struggling with some pretty basic concepts here, Left...

 

[ilia25]

Investment is driven by the anticipation of profit. Period. When you raise taxes, you lower profits.

Not true. You are confusing the business profitability with the owner's personal income. Personal taxes affect the latter, but not the former.

Actually...you are mistaken.

An owners personal income FROM his/her company IS his ROI.

You need to think like a business owner.

You need to remember, that he also owns his company. So an investment not only rises his future incomes, but also increases his wealth.

Also -- if he doesn't make an investment in expanding his business (which is deductible from his personal taxes), what would he do with those money?

 

[Oldstyle]

Investment is driven by the anticipation of profit. Period. When you raise taxes, you lower profits.

Not true. You are confusing the business profitability with the owner's personal income. Personal taxes affect the latter, but not the former.

Actually...you are mistaken.

An owners personal income FROM his/her company IS his ROI.

You need to think like a business owner.

That totally depends on how the business is structured, Jar.

 

[Jarhead]

I suggest you check with YOUR tax preparer.

You are entitled to make extra mortgage payments per year...and have them attributed to the subsequent months. For example...if I make one today, one tomorrow and one on Wednesday.....I will be paying the december, January and February payments. It is legal and it is a common practice.

I must assume you do not own your own home. Paying off principal is a competely different scenario...and has an effect on the amount of mortgage payments down the road........paying in advance monthly invoices is done for tax advantages.....and my monthly payments will stay the same.

Doesn't help this year nor have a net effect next year. It just reduces the interest on the principle.

you are incorrect.
I suggest you look into it if you own your own home.

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

 

[Jarhead]

Not true. You are confusing the business profitability with the owner's personal income. Personal taxes affect the latter, but not the former.

Actually...you are mistaken.

An owners personal income FROM his/her company IS his ROI.

You need to think like a business owner.

That totally depends on how the business is structured, Jar.

I am not referring to companies that are public.

I am referring to the basic S-Corp or LLP.....whatever they invest, must have a return that makes sense...or they would not invest.

 

[Koios]

Doesn't help this year nor have a net effect next year. It just reduces the interest on the principle.

you are incorrect.
I suggest you look into it if you own your own home.

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

Cool. Then scratching the 3 home payments, let's go back to the original query:

If you had money to invest, where would you and why?

Answer, to make money where you're more confident in the result than your desire to retain the money. I think I'll make X on my Y. Simple as that. But X has to be an opportunity, or you keep your Y safe and sound. None too complicated.

And taxes have next to nothing to do with it, nay, zip in your consideration. You know going in that $5 grand in ROI won't be taxed, much, if at all, but you'd be giddy if you made $500 grand, even knowing full well it will be taxed. And the reason is we have a progressive tax, so that at no point does gross result in diminished net. Make more, get more, which has a very strong appeal, and always has.

 

[Jarhead]

Not true. You are confusing the business profitability with the owner's personal income. Personal taxes affect the latter, but not the former.

Actually...you are mistaken.

An owners personal income FROM his/her company IS his ROI.

You need to think like a business owner.

You need to remember, that he also owns his company. So an investment not only rises his future incomes, but also increases his wealth.

You are assuming that his investment has a return making it viable...if a larger amount of that return is taxed, it may not be nearly as viable as...say...investing that mjoney in a tax deferred plan...or investing that money in a mutual fund.

Also -- if he doesn't make an investment in expanding his business (which is deductible from his personal taxes), what would he do with those money?

Pretty much the same answer as abvove.

As an S-corp. I grew my company to the point where the return made it worthwhile. However, due to an unanticipated increase in operating costs, my annual "investment" was no longer worthy of the return. So I stopped the growth. I later found that the overall operating costs did not warrant one of my divisions...so I contracted that division of my company.

It was a temporary placement division of a much larger recruiting and business planning firm...and with the rapid increase in unemployment costs....the margin was dropping like a lead wieght...so I shut it down.

 

[Jarhead]

you are incorrect.
I suggest you look into it if you own your own home.

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

Cool. Then scratching the 3 home payments, let's go back to the original query:

If you had money to invest, where would you and why?

Answer, to make money where you're more confident in the result than your desire to retain the money. I think I'll make X on my Y. Simple as that. But X has to be an opportunity, or you keep your Y safe and sound. None too complicated.

And taxes have next to nothing to do with it, nay, zip in your consideration. You know going in that $5 grand in ROI won't be taxed, much, if at all, but you'd be giddy if you made $500 grand, even knowing full well it will be taxed. And the reason is we have a progressive tax, so that at no point does gross result in diminished net. Make more, get more, which has a very strong appeal, and always has.

your theory neglects to take into consideration tax deferred opportunities nor does it take into consideration long term mutual fund investments.

Taxes have everything to do with it. If my ROI is going to be 10% less than it would be with a different tax law, I would take that into consideration.....

 

[Jarhead]

you are incorrect.
I suggest you look into it if you own your own home.

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

Cool. Then scratching the 3 home payments, let's go back to the original query:

If you had money to invest, where would you and why?

Answer, to make money where you're more confident in the result than your desire to retain the money. I think I'll make X on my Y. Simple as that. But X has to be an opportunity, or you keep your Y safe and sound. None too complicated.

And taxes have next to nothing to do with it, nay, zip in your consideration. You know going in that $5 grand in ROI won't be taxed, much, if at all, but you'd be giddy if you made $500 grand, even knowing full well it will be taxed. And the reason is we have a progressive tax, so that at no point does gross result in diminished net. Make more, get more, which has a very strong appeal, and always has.

and I am not scratching the 3 payments idea. You just didnt read what I wrote.
I am paying 13 this year.....that is legal...I have only paid 10 so far...but was never deemed behind on my mortgage.

 

[Koios]

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

Cool. Then scratching the 3 home payments, let's go back to the original query:

If you had money to invest, where would you and why?

Answer, to make money where you're more confident in the result than your desire to retain the money. I think I'll make X on my Y. Simple as that. But X has to be an opportunity, or you keep your Y safe and sound. None too complicated.

And taxes have next to nothing to do with it, nay, zip in your consideration. You know going in that $5 grand in ROI won't be taxed, much, if at all, but you'd be giddy if you made $500 grand, even knowing full well it will be taxed. And the reason is we have a progressive tax, so that at no point does gross result in diminished net. Make more, get more, which has a very strong appeal, and always has.

your theory neglects to take into consideration tax deferred opportunities nor does it take into consideration long term mutual fund investments.

Taxes have everything to do with it. If my ROI is going to be 10% less than it would be with a different tax law, I would take that into consideration.....

Correct. That's separate from making money, which we all like, and would like more of.

And if you can force yourself to save, and have it come out pre-tax (higher net paycheck), that's a good plan, sort of, assuming you take the gains / pre-tax investment when you're retired or unemployed, and thus it will be taxed at a lower rate since it's realized when your earnings are lower ... hopefully.

Back to the making money part: we all like it. Give me a raise, and I'll shake my boss' hand. Earn me more from Capital, and I'll brag to the neighbor. None too compplicated, in what motivates work or investment: desire to make dough.

 

[Koios]

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

Cool. Then scratching the 3 home payments, let's go back to the original query:

If you had money to invest, where would you and why?

Answer, to make money where you're more confident in the result than your desire to retain the money. I think I'll make X on my Y. Simple as that. But X has to be an opportunity, or you keep your Y safe and sound. None too complicated.

And taxes have next to nothing to do with it, nay, zip in your consideration. You know going in that $5 grand in ROI won't be taxed, much, if at all, but you'd be giddy if you made $500 grand, even knowing full well it will be taxed. And the reason is we have a progressive tax, so that at no point does gross result in diminished net. Make more, get more, which has a very strong appeal, and always has.

and I am not scratching the 3 payments idea. You just didnt read what I wrote.
I am paying 13 this year.....that is legal...I have only paid 10 so far...but was never deemed behind on my mortgage.

Fine. Now answer my question, or don't. Squirming to dodge it was tried and failed.

 

[Oldstyle]

you are incorrect.
I suggest you look into it if you own your own home.

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

Cool. Then scratching the 3 home payments, let's go back to the original query:

If you had money to invest, where would you and why?

Answer, to make money where you're more confident in the result than your desire to retain the money. I think I'll make X on my Y. Simple as that. But X has to be an opportunity, or you keep your Y safe and sound. None too complicated.

And taxes have next to nothing to do with it, nay, zip in your consideration. You know going in that $5 grand in ROI won't be taxed, much, if at all, but you'd be giddy if you made $500 grand, even knowing full well it will be taxed. And the reason is we have a progressive tax, so that at no point does gross result in diminished net. Make more, get more, which has a very strong appeal, and always has.

How can taxes have next to nothing to do with it? Taxes are real. Taxes have to be paid. Those taxes have to come from somewhere.

If I'm deciding whether or not to pull the trigger on an investment that I won't see a return on for a number of years and major tax increases are being proposed then I "will" factor those potential tax increases into my calculations just as I would factor in any potential increases in energy costs, raw material costs, labor costs and on and on.

"Make more, get more..."? Could you be any more simplistic? OF COURSE MAKING 500 GRAND IS PREFERABLE TO MAKING 5!!! That doesn't mean that raising taxes is going to encourage anyone to invest.

 

[Avorysuds]

Rand Paul gives cuts, Obama ignores and looks to spend more.

SENATOR RAND PAUL'S PLATFORM TO REVITALIZE AMERICA

 

[Koios]

I should calrify...

Last year in december, I paid January...giving me the extra month of write off.
This year, I did not pay January....so I will have only 11 payments....unless I make the extra one again....and the extra one beyond that.

I can pay January in December is the bottom line.

Cool. Then scratching the 3 home payments, let's go back to the original query:

If you had money to invest, where would you and why?

Answer, to make money where you're more confident in the result than your desire to retain the money. I think I'll make X on my Y. Simple as that. But X has to be an opportunity, or you keep your Y safe and sound. None too complicated.

And taxes have next to nothing to do with it, nay, zip in your consideration. You know going in that $5 grand in ROI won't be taxed, much, if at all, but you'd be giddy if you made $500 grand, even knowing full well it will be taxed. And the reason is we have a progressive tax, so that at no point does gross result in diminished net. Make more, get more, which has a very strong appeal, and always has.

How can taxes have next to nothing to do with it? Taxes are real. Taxes have to be paid. Those taxes have to come from somewhere.

If I'm deciding whether or not to pull the trigger on an investment that I won't see a return on for a number of years and major tax increases are being proposed then I "will" factor those potential tax increases into my calculations just as I would factor in any potential increases in energy costs, raw material costs, labor costs and on and on.

"Make more, get more..."? Could you be any more simplistic? OF COURSE MAKING 500 GRAND IS PREFERABLE TO MAKING 5!!! That doesn't mean that raising taxes is going to encourage anyone to invest.

Because they're a thing we hate, after. But the desire to get a raise, make a lucrative investment, or open a business we think's a winner, exists at every level of taxation, and always has.

Saying taxes are a barrier tofolks getting after an opportunity, is pure bullshit.