Republicans are afraid to propose spending cuts!

[zeke]

If that is not the case, then there is no point in making that investment whether the taxes are low or high. My point is that the taxes are pretty much irrelevant when you make an investment decision.

Mutual finds? And how much those are returning now? And ROI from those investments are taxed too -- and they should be taxed at the same rate, as any other personal income.

When looking at an anticipated ROI, oine takes into consideration how much that investment will cost him...and the taxes are deemed as costs.

The only tax consideration I made when I was flipping houses and there were still long and short term capital gains, was how long I held the house. And how much profit was in the house. Enough profit in a short time period could off set the higher short term rate.

Now it's moot.

But the markets functioned better when there were different short and long term capital gains rates. More stable. IMO.

 

[Koios]

Worry not. If your business is ill-conceived and makes no money, you can cheer, because you'll pay no tax.

But if, godforbid, you're burdened with business acumen, and make a tidy profit, you'll pay tax.

Spoken like a true armchair businessman.

Indeed. Mine is making money as I type, from a chair with armrests and shit.

Here's how: I sell a machine control software, that's delivered electronically, to business owners with said machines. Support is contracted out to a third-party, so I make in less than hour a day, many multiple of the Minimum Wage. Not too shabby, but I got lucky. I was Exec VP for a compnay in the US that acquired, with my initiative, a machine manufacturer in Europe, where I sat on the board and developed a relationship with a software developer in Germany that support the machines, and those of other companies.

So I was able to get a cream puff deal, as master distributor, in the Americas and Asia Pacific. And thus I can be an armchair businessperson. Imagine that.

 

[Koios]

I tired to enjoy this debate with you...but your attitude is way too childish for me. You simply want to be right...you dont want to engage in an hoinest debate.

One can not answer your question without a more definitive economic status/climate.

I would NEVER invest 1000 in an unknown on the heels of a recession.

FYI...I am all for tax hikes when the economic climate is one of prosperity. Business owners have a different mindset.

But to say to some guy....you barley made a living for the last 4 years...and now we are going to take even MORE of what you make now that you are starting to make money again...is counter productive.

You need to think like a business owner. They have not made a nice profit for 4 plus years.....why kick them when they are just starting to try to get up?

Worry not. If your business is ill-conceived and makes no money, you can cheer, because you'll pay no tax.

But if, godforbid, you're burdened with business acumen, and make a tidy profit, you'll pay tax.

So you're basically saying that business owners should be happy not paying taxes...because they are going belly up...and if they are making a small profit they should happily give a big chunk of that to the very government that's been making it hard to make that profit in the first place?

LOL...and you progressives wonder why you can't get the Private Sector to invest under you! Too funny...

No. I'm saying businesses, ideally, make as much money as they can, even with some being taxed.

 

[Jarhead]

Let me see if I can put this into SIMPLE terms so even you can understand...

If your Boss came to you and said he was going to give you a $5 an hour raise and a new position but the commute to your new job would cost you $250 a week in gas plus another five hours in drive time...would you shake his hand?

Of course not...because your bottom line has gone down...not up. That added cost of gas plus your time wasted makes your ROI less than the old job. Tax increases are one more thing that takes away from ROI...that detracts from the bottom line. When you do that you have less investment.

No. Because I do not make more dough.

Now then, given your senario, where does tax come into that decision?

Now put yourself into the shoes of a business owner. You're trying to decide whether or not to invest in that million dollar "widget" factory and after crunching the numbers you think that you can make a decent profit producing widgets and selling them. But just when you're about to pull the trigger on that million dollar investment you're told that the government is going to increase taxes on any profits you will be making. Are you so ignorant about how businesses function that you don't think that new tax is going to affect your decision to invest? It may be that the added tax now makes a lower rate of return from putting capital into a tax free shelter more attractive. The risk/reward simply isn't worth gambling with that million dollar investment.

risk/reward...cost/benefit....these concepts escape the minds of most who never owned a business.

Every financial move made in business must have such analyses performed before decisions can be made.

That is why business owners were comlaining when Bush tax cuts expiring and cap and trade were looming....it didnt allow them to make educated decisions.

They just dont get it.

 

[saveliberty]

Worry not. If your business is ill-conceived and makes no money, you can cheer, because you'll pay no tax.

But if, godforbid, you're burdened with business acumen, and make a tidy profit, you'll pay tax.

Spoken like a true armchair businessman.

Indeed. Mine is making money as I type, from a chair with armrests and shit.

Here's how: I sell a machine control software, that's delivered electronically, to business owners with said machines. Support is contracted out to a third-party, so I make in less than hour a day, many multiple of the Minimum Wage. Not too shabby, but I got lucky. I was Exec VP for a compnay in the US that acquired, with my initiative, a machine manufacturer in Europe, where I sat on the board and developed a relationship with a software developer in Germany that support the machines, and those of other companies.

So I was able to get a cream puff deal, as master distributor, in the Americas and Asia Pacific. And thus I can be an armchair businessperson. Imagine that.

I imagine someone is doing all the TAX accounting and related decisionmaking then, because you are obviously clueless.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Hope Obamacare is affordable for small business employees, cause that is one of the first expenses I'd cut.

whats your definition of small business? small business with less than 50 employees are not required to carry health insurance.

 

[saveliberty]

No. I'm saying businesses, ideally, make as much money as they can, even with some being taxed.

This is far from an ideal business climate. Businesses are actually hoarding cash and delaying decisions until there is a clear direction.

 

[saveliberty]

Hope Obamacare is affordable for small business employees, cause that is one of the first expenses I'd cut.

whats your definition of small business? small business with less than 50 employees are not required to carry health insurance.

Doesn't mean they don't. Doesn't mean they can't be dumped into the system.

 

[Koios]

Spoken like a true armchair businessman.

Indeed. Mine is making money as I type, from a chair with armrests and shit.

Here's how: I sell a machine control software, that's delivered electronically, to business owners with said machines. Support is contracted out to a third-party, so I make in less than hour a day, many multiple of the Minimum Wage. Not too shabby, but I got lucky. I was Exec VP for a compnay in the US that acquired, with my initiative, a machine manufacturer in Europe, where I sat on the board and developed a relationship with a software developer in Germany that support the machines, and those of other companies.

So I was able to get a cream puff deal, as master distributor, in the Americas and Asia Pacific. And thus I can be an armchair businessperson. Imagine that.

I imagine someone is doing all the TAX accounting and related decisionmaking then, because you are obviously clueless.

I'm sure you're right. So please, help me: What would you advise I do differently and/or how does your business function and turn a profit, so that I might learn from your success?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ilia25]

If that is not the case, then there is no point in making that investment whether the taxes are low or high. My point is that the taxes are pretty much irrelevant when you make an investment decision.



Mutual finds? And how much those are returning now? And ROI from those investments are taxed too -- and they should be taxed at the same rate, as any other personal income.

When looking at an anticipated ROI, oine takes into consideration how much that investment will cost him...and the taxes are deemed as costs.

Taxes are NOT a cost. Taxing investment profits is like taxing your salary -- you would not refuse a rise because your tax bill would increase. Same true for any investment -- if it is profitable, then it makes sense.

Otherwise, again -- what are you going to do with those money? Invest them somewhere else and pay the same taxes?

 

[saveliberty]

Indeed. Mine is making money as I type, from a chair with armrests and shit.

Here's how: I sell a machine control software, that's delivered electronically, to business owners with said machines. Support is contracted out to a third-party, so I make in less than hour a day, many multiple of the Minimum Wage. Not too shabby, but I got lucky. I was Exec VP for a compnay in the US that acquired, with my initiative, a machine manufacturer in Europe, where I sat on the board and developed a relationship with a software developer in Germany that support the machines, and those of other companies.

So I was able to get a cream puff deal, as master distributor, in the Americas and Asia Pacific. And thus I can be an armchair businessperson. Imagine that.

I imagine someone is doing all the TAX accounting and related decisionmaking then, because you are obviously clueless.

I'm sure you're right. So please, help me: What would you advise I do differently and/or how does your business function and turn a profit, so that I might learn from your success?

Thanks in advance.

I'd be happy with taking my "profit" and revesting it in more equipment versus having it be by loans due to higher tax rates.

 

[saveliberty]

By the way, IF you really were making all this money, you'd be in the suggested new tax rate scheme. So, I'm confident your lying.

 

[Koios]

No. I'm saying businesses, ideally, make as much money as they can, even with some being taxed.

This is far from an ideal business climate. Businesses are actually hoarding cash and delaying decisions until there is a clear direction.

Correct. It makes profit harder to come by. But those lucky enough to have pre-tax gross profit in excess of $250,000 a year, will pay a slightly higher rate. And thus right-wing nincumpoops who claim higher taxes are a barrier to investment are simply ignorant of what motivates investment and/or how businesses funtion.

So I'll ask you staight out: what about 39% and change is so fucking awful that folks who paid 35% on incomes north of about $330,000 suddenly have a stuggling business?

 

[Koios]

I imagine someone is doing all the TAX accounting and related decisionmaking then, because you are obviously clueless.

I'm sure you're right. So please, help me: What would you advise I do differently and/or how does your business function and turn a profit, so that I might learn from your success?

Thanks in advance.

I'd be happy with taking my "profit" and revesting it in more equipment versus having it be by loans due to higher tax rates.

Great. So with the 4+% of your business income, above $330,000 a year, you'll buy a copier your business doesn't need, versus government buying roads and shit with that money.

Tell me the net effect of that, on our economy. Any difference?

 

[saveliberty]

No. I'm saying businesses, ideally, make as much money as they can, even with some being taxed.

This is far from an ideal business climate. Businesses are actually hoarding cash and delaying decisions until there is a clear direction.

Correct. It makes profit harder to come by. But those lucky enough to have pre-tax gross profit in excess of $250,000 a year, will pay a slightly higher rate. And thus right-wing nincumpoops who claim higher taxes are a barrier to investment are simply ignorant of what motivates investment and/or how businesses funtion.

So I'll ask you staight out: what about 39% and change is so fucking awful that folks who paid 35% on incomes north of about $330,000 suddenly have a stuggling business?

Offhand I'd say quite a few. 4% is a big change on a percentage basis (11%). Of course in your ignorance, you fail to realize business will attempt to pass all of this increase on to customers.

 

[Koios]

By the way, IF you really were making all this money, you'd be in the suggested new tax rate scheme. So, I'm confident your lying.

My business grosses less than $250,000 a year, albeit, I'd be tickled pink if it grossed more, even if the top rate was 90%, since 10% of something is way better than nothing. More net, is why I'm business. Period.

Whose isn't?

 

[saveliberty]

By the way, IF you really were making all this money, you'd be in the suggested new tax rate scheme. So, I'm confident your lying.

My business grosses less than $250,000 a year, albeit, I'd be tickled pink if it grossed more, even if the top rate was 90%, since 10% of something is way better than nothing. More net, is why I'm business. Period.

Whose isn't?

Good thing you don't have a lot of overhead then. With less than $250,000 GROSS, you can't afford to tie up funds.

 

[Jarhead]

This is far from an ideal business climate. Businesses are actually hoarding cash and delaying decisions until there is a clear direction.

Correct. It makes profit harder to come by. But those lucky enough to have pre-tax gross profit in excess of $250,000 a year, will pay a slightly higher rate. And thus right-wing nincumpoops who claim higher taxes are a barrier to investment are simply ignorant of what motivates investment and/or how businesses funtion.

So I'll ask you staight out: what about 39% and change is so fucking awful that folks who paid 35% on incomes north of about $330,000 suddenly have a stuggling business?

Offhand I'd say quite a few. 4% is a big change on a percentage basis (11%). Of course in your ignorance, you fail to realize business will attempt to pass all of this increase on to customers.

very much like the Walmart situation.

Putting aside the fact that those employees took the job knowing the salary and benefits and most certainly could have turned the job down...

If pressure from the outside forces the company to increase compensation and benefits...those increases in costs will result in prices going up to the level of the stores that pay a higher salary and benefits

And then Walmart will be offering nothing special price wise and the consumer will suffer.

Ironically.....the employees had the choice to take the job.....but if they get their way, the consumer wont have the choice to pay lower prices.

And somehow...it will be Walmarts fault.

 

[Koios]

By the way, IF you really were making all this money, you'd be in the suggested new tax rate scheme. So, I'm confident your lying.

My business grosses less than $250,000 a year, albeit, I'd be tickled pink if it grossed more, even if the top rate was 90%, since 10% of something is way better than nothing. More net, is why I'm business. Period.

Whose isn't?

Good thing you don't have a lot of overhead then. With less than $250,000 GROSS, you can't afford to tie up funds.

Laugh away. Meanwhile, why does a conmpany need lower overhead to be profitable? What if both sales and costs are high, but the gross profit is around, let's say, $180,000?

A problem, you think?

 

[Jarhead]

By the way, IF you really were making all this money, you'd be in the suggested new tax rate scheme. So, I'm confident your lying.

My business grosses less than $250,000 a year, albeit, I'd be tickled pink if it grossed more, even if the top rate was 90%, since 10% of something is way better than nothing. More net, is why I'm business. Period.

Whose isn't?

Good thing you don't have a lot of overhead then. With less than $250,000 GROSS, you can't afford to tie up funds.

lol...he still refuses to address cost/ benefit.

He refuses to see there is always the chance of LOSING the money you invest...so the expected benefit must outweigh the cost by that much more.

FYI....he/she does not own a business for he/she is absolutely clueless about how a business person is forced to think.