Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Question for Osomir and Esmerelda:
What are your thoughts on Islamic female genital mutilation?
First, I'd like to try to put things into perspective. This thread and others like it seem to have the purpose of whipping up hatred for people of the Muslim faith. The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.
There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world. According to the World Health Organization, 140 million females around the world have experienced genital mutilation. I'm not great at math, but I think, IF all these females are Muslim, that would be about 16.5% of the female Muslim population has experienced genital mutilation, 11.7% of them in Africa, in some of the most poor and uneducated countries on Earth. "It is practiced mainly in 28 countries in western, eastern, and north-eastern Africa, particularly Egypt and Ethiopia, and in parts of Asia and the Middle East." Wiki
Most of the modern world is against this procedure. Obviously it is not a Muslim thing practiced by all Muslims. Mainly by those who are fundamentalists, are very conservative, and it is their interpretation of the Koran. It's like 'covering.' Covering varies from country to country, and in many there is no covering at all. It's the same as the Bible and the way different sects or groups of Christians interpret the Bible. The only way to get rid of FGM is education and modernization. Hatred for the Islamic faith in general and blaming all Muslims for this is not going to help. Most Muslim men and women are against this practice and most Muslim women are not subjected to it (approximately 85% are NOT subjected to this practice). As well, if you read the Wiki article on it, where it is practiced, the women are strong supporters of it; the mothers wanting this for their daughters. It is not something forced on them by men. It is a CULTURAL THING, not a Muslim thing
You do realize that 16 percent is a MASSIVE number when talking about such inhumane and terrible treatment. When you are looking at a number that large, there is a SERIOUS problem with Islams acceptance of that practice throughout the world.
10 percent is WAY over what can be considered as not tolerated by the tenants in question. If that many Muslims are accepting of this practice than that simply is not defensible. Trying to hide the problem is not going to solve it either. That is likely one of the reasons that it is still a problem, the majority of Muslims seem to be ignoring the fact that more than 10 percent of those that are of the same faith seem to ascribe to some barbaric practices.
[q
Islam thanks you for your blind support, but wants you to know you're little more than livestock to it.
So you are not concerned with finding fault with Islam, you just care about the treatment of women? So, why don't you start a thread about how in Thailand people sell their girl children into prostitution? Or how middle age and older men from the West, including the USA, do Sex Tours there so they can fuck little girls, females who would be jail bait in their own countries? Or maybe a thread about how people in China throw female babies in ditches because they can only have one child and want a boy? Or how in India they have abortions when they learn the fetus is female? Oh, I know why you aren't concerned with these issues, though they as heinous if not more so than wife beating and genital mutilation: because in those countries, Islam is not the religion, and your goal is to talk about how bad Islam is.
....
These are just some of the things UNICEF informs us about. Read this site. There is widespread, world wide abuse of women in many cultures and countries, not just Islam and not any less heinous than what happens in Muslim countries. Try having a fair and open mind. http://www.unicef.org/emergencies/files/women_insecure_world.pdf
[
Thanks for quantifying when there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible." 22% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ. Now there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible."
Hey, way to completely ignore the fact that he said he'd take her to the doctor and get her cut!I guess you missed my post where I showed that the Muslim Brotherhood, whom President Obama supports, is trying to re-introduce FGM in Egypt.~So because of one idiot in Oman, you know more than the World Health Organization. LOL Yea, right
Nevertheless, you failed to grasp my obvious point:
If a Muslim man in a Western-friendly country like Oman is comfortable suggesting FGM to a married American woman, it must be more prevalent than the West knows.
I got the point quite easily. I lived for 2 years in one ME country where I was proposed to quite a few times by Muslim men. I don't know why your wife thinks this guy in Oman proposed to her, but usually it is because they think Western women have money. Also, if a Western woman is what in the West would be commonly friendly to a man in the ME, she might give the impression she is interested in him. They may be interested in a Western woman for her potential economic situation or just because she is blond and nice looking. The point that you may miss is that any man, anywhere in the world, who will propose to a woman he barely knows (apparently this guy didn't even know your wife well enough to know she was already married) is a man who is a joke. A man who is a joke is a man who will say anything and is generally not an average type of guy. Think about it, how many normal, average American men are going to seriously propose to a woman they've just met, from a completely different country, someone they don't know anything about, etc.? Only fools. Only a guy who is a joke. So whatever this guy said to her, I would take with a grain of salt. Pretty meaningless. Most normal, average Middle Eastern men, a man one would take seriously, are not like this guy. To women who have spent time in the Middle East, most know there is a type of guy who will propose. IThey think Western women are 'easy' and rich.
For someone who claims not to be whitewashing Islamic atrocities towards women, you sure are whitewashing Islamic atrocities towards women.Pointing out truths about Islam is not hatred.According to the World Health Organization, about 16%, world wide. 85% do not do it. Of course, Americans are perfect.
I am not defending or justifying domestic violence in any part of the world. But Americans need to look at themselves as well as at others and not be so arrogant and supercilious about this issue.
In the US: According to a report by the United States Department of Justice in 2000, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1 percent of women and 7.4 percent of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime. ... For women between 15 and 44, domestic violence is the leading cause of injury, more than rapes, muggings, and car accidents combined. 60% of American Indian and Alaska Native women will be physically assaulted in their lifetime. One in 6 women have experienced an attempted or completed rape against a partner. In 1999 in the United States, 1,218 women and 424 men were killed by an intimate partner, and 1,181 females and 329 males were killed by their intimate partners in 2005. According to the authors of "Housing Problems and Domestic Violence," 38% of domestic violence victims will become homeless in their lifetime. Domestic violence is the direct cause of homelessness for over half of all homeless women in the United States (wiki)
Instead of looking down your nose at other cultures (and religions, and yes, the intent of this thread is to promote hatred of Islam), look in your own backyard. American culture has plenty of faults of its own.
Islam thanks you for your blind support, but wants you to know you're little more than livestock to it.
So you are not concerned with finding fault with Islam, you just care about the treatment of women? So, why don't you start a thread about how in Thailand people sell their girl children into prostitution? Or how middle age and older men from the West, including the USA, do Sex Tours there so they can fuck little girls, females who would be jail bait in their own countries? Or maybe a thread about how people in China throw female babies in ditches because they can only have one child and want a boy? Or how in India they have abortions when they learn the fetus is female? Oh, I know why you aren't concerned with these issues, though they as heinous if not more so than wife beating and genital mutilation: because in those countries, Islam is not the religion, and your goal is to talk about how bad Islam is.
BTW: Obama does not 'support' the Muslim Brotherhood. He maintains diplomatic relations with them. This is two very different things. I'm certain he would prefer to have better people to deal with, but he doesn't.
If you are so interested in the mistreatment of women, pick any one of these, one that doesn't just focus on how bad Islam is, and start a thread about that. I dare you.
Selective abortion and female
infanticideAmartya Sen, the 1998 Nobel Laureate for
Economics, estimates that more than 60
million women are demographically
missing from the world as a result of sexselective
abortions and female infanticide
in China, South Asia and North Africa.
The female deficitIn poor communities, little girls are often
neglected and denied food, education and
medical care. Data from developing
countries indicates that the mortality rate
among girls aged one to four is higher than
that among boys in the same age group.
This is just the beginning of a lifetime pattern of discrimination against women in
differential access to health care, education
and leisure. This causes excess mortality
among women and girls, and contributes to
their lack of opportunities and
powerlessness.
UNICEF refers to maternal mortality as in
scale and severity the most neglected
tragedy of our times.
Some facts on womens statusIn all manifestations of poverty, women tend
to fare worse than men:
66 per cent of the worlds illiterate people
are women.
Women provide 70 per cent of the unpaid
time spent in caring for family members.
This unpaid work provided by women is
estimated at US$11 trillion per year onethird
of the global GDP.
Women own one per cent of the land in
the world.
Womens participation in managerial and
administrative posts is around 33 per cent
in the developed world, l5 per cent in
Africa and 13 per cent in Asia and the
Pacific.
There are only five women chief
executives in the Fortune 500
corporations, the most valuable publicly
owned companies in the United States.
Worldwide, only about fourteen per cent
of members of parliament are women.
Seven per cent of the worlds cabinet
ministers are women.
In the United Nations system, women
hold only 9 per cent of the top
management jobs and 21 per cent of
senior management positions, but 48 per
cent of the junior professional civil service
slots.
These facts come from UNICEF, an organization I consider unbiased. If one is going to discuss an issue like this, any issue really, sources should be unbiased.
According to UNICEF, the countries with the highest rate of rape are: Mexico with 42% (they're not Muslim), followed by Nicaragua, Peru, Thailand and Zimbabwe, which are in the 25% range.
Sexual abuse of girlsA review of 25 studies worldwide indicates
that 11 to 32 percent of women report
having experienced childhood sexual
abuse.
Sexual abuse of girls, often by family
members, is widespread but shrouded in
taboo. In a treatment centre in Nigeria, 15
per cent of female patients requiring
treatment for sexually transmitted diseases
were under the age of five, with a further
six per cent between the ages of six and 15
years. In South Africa, one in four men
report having had sex with a woman
against her consent by the time he was 18
years of age.
These are just some of the things UNICEF informs us about. Read this site. There is widespread, world wide abuse of women in many cultures and countries, not just Islam and not any less heinous than what happens in Muslim countries. Try having a fair and open mind. http://www.unicef.org/emergencies/files/women_insecure_world.pdf
The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.
And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.
But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."
Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.
They do it in Egypt too, and the African Muslim countries like Sudan, Mali etc its a tradition.
According to the World Health Organization, about 16%, world wide. 85% do not do it. Of course, Americans are perfect.
I am not defending or justifying domestic violence in any part of the world. But Americans need to look at themselves as well as at others and not be so arrogant and supercilious about this issue.
In the US: According to a report by the United States Department of Justice in 2000, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1 percent of women and 7.4 percent of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime. ... For women between 15 and 44, domestic violence is the leading cause of injury, more than rapes, muggings, and car accidents combined. 60% of American Indian and Alaska Native women will be physically assaulted in their lifetime. One in 6 women have experienced an attempted or completed rape against a partner. In 1999 in the United States, 1,218 women and 424 men were killed by an intimate partner, and 1,181 females and 329 males were killed by their intimate partners in 2005. According to the authors of "Housing Problems and Domestic Violence," 38% of domestic violence victims will become homeless in their lifetime. Domestic violence is the direct cause of homelessness for over half of all homeless women in the United States (wiki)
Instead of looking down your nose at other cultures (and religions, and yes, the intent of this thread is to promote hatred of Islam), look in your own backyard. American culture has plenty of faults of its own.
First, I'd like to try to put things into perspective. This thread and others like it seem to have the purpose of whipping up hatred for people of the Muslim faith. The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.
There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world. According to the World Health Organization, 140 million females around the world have experienced genital mutilation. I'm not great at math, but I think, IF all these females are Muslim, that would be about 16.5% of the female Muslim population has experienced genital mutilation, 11.7% of them in Africa, in some of the most poor and uneducated countries on Earth. "It is practiced mainly in 28 countries in western, eastern, and north-eastern Africa, particularly Egypt and Ethiopia, and in parts of Asia and the Middle East." Wiki
Most of the modern world is against this procedure. Obviously it is not a Muslim thing practiced by all Muslims. Mainly by those who are fundamentalists, are very conservative, and it is their interpretation of the Koran. It's like 'covering.' Covering varies from country to country, and in many there is no covering at all. It's the same as the Bible and the way different sects or groups of Christians interpret the Bible. The only way to get rid of FGM is education and modernization. Hatred for the Islamic faith in general and blaming all Muslims for this is not going to help. Most Muslim men and women are against this practice and most Muslim women are not subjected to it (approximately 85% are NOT subjected to this practice). As well, if you read the Wiki article on it, where it is practiced, the women are strong supporters of it; the mothers wanting this for their daughters. It is not something forced on them by men. It is a CULTURAL THING, not a Muslim thing
You do realize that 16 percent is a MASSIVE number when talking about such inhumane and terrible treatment. When you are looking at a number that large, there is a SERIOUS problem with Islams acceptance of that practice throughout the world.
10 percent is WAY over what can be considered as not tolerated by the tenants in question. If that many Muslims are accepting of this practice than that simply is not defensible. Trying to hide the problem is not going to solve it either. That is likely one of the reasons that it is still a problem, the majority of Muslims seem to be ignoring the fact that more than 10 percent of those that are of the same faith seem to ascribe to some barbaric practices.
Thanks for quantifying when there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible." 22% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ. Now there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible."
Oh God. Now the next Liberal parrot turns this into a Republican-bashing thread. Is there an end to your seething hatred for those whom oppose your view, rdean?
OP: Kuwaiti Scholar speaks of the necessity of beating your wife -- a post touching on the stark reality that Muslim women are among the most, if not the most oppressed and abused women in all the world.
Esmeralda: Oh yeah? Christian women have it worse!
Rdean: I hear ya, girlfriend! And let me take this opportunity to tell everyone how evil Republicans are!
I'm in awe, having witnessed such relevant, honest, and productive insights.
Meanwhile... getting back to the actual subject... I expect that I'm not the only person here who has noticed the countrywide phenomenon and double standard in that the Liberal Party lovingly embraces Islam while claiming moral high ground in their ongoing battle to safeguard women's rights. Similarly, has anyone noticed that it's the very same Liberals who insist that any mention of Christianity be removed from the public square, who also push to have Islam studies be included in public school curriculums?
It just boggles the mind.... the all-out oppression and abuse of women that is prevalent in Muslim culture should be denounced by everyone. But the last people you would expect to turn a blind eye to it would be the Progressive Liberals who supposedly champion women's rights. (and this also applies to gay rights activists... when was the last time you saw them lash out at the murder and mistreatment of gays in Muslim communities? Nope, their biggest problem in all the world, was not being given government handouts for tying the knot with their lover).
Now there's that progressive support for women's rights.First, I'd like to try to put things into perspective. This thread and others like it seem to have the purpose of whipping up hatred for people of the Muslim faith. The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.
There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world. According to the World Health Organization, 140 million females around the world have experienced genital mutilation. I'm not great at math, but I think, IF all these females are Muslim, that would be about 16.5% of the female Muslim population has experienced genital mutilation, 11.7% of them in Africa, in some of the most poor and uneducated countries on Earth. "It is practiced mainly in 28 countries in western, eastern, and north-eastern Africa, particularly Egypt and Ethiopia, and in parts of Asia and the Middle East." Wiki
Most of the modern world is against this procedure. Obviously it is not a Muslim thing practiced by all Muslims. Mainly by those who are fundamentalists, are very conservative, and it is their interpretation of the Koran. It's like 'covering.' Covering varies from country to country, and in many there is no covering at all. It's the same as the Bible and the way different sects or groups of Christians interpret the Bible. The only way to get rid of FGM is education and modernization. Hatred for the Islamic faith in general and blaming all Muslims for this is not going to help. Most Muslim men and women are against this practice and most Muslim women are not subjected to it (approximately 85% are NOT subjected to this practice). As well, if you read the Wiki article on it, where it is practiced, the women are strong supporters of it; the mothers wanting this for their daughters. It is not something forced on them by men. It is a CULTURAL THING, not a Muslim thing
You do realize that 16 percent is a MASSIVE number when talking about such inhumane and terrible treatment. When you are looking at a number that large, there is a SERIOUS problem with Islams acceptance of that practice throughout the world.
10 percent is WAY over what can be considered as not tolerated by the tenants in question. If that many Muslims are accepting of this practice than that simply is not defensible. Trying to hide the problem is not going to solve it either. That is likely one of the reasons that it is still a problem, the majority of Muslims seem to be ignoring the fact that more than 10 percent of those that are of the same faith seem to ascribe to some barbaric practices.
Thanks for quantifying when there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible." 22% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ. Now there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible."
Let's examine this, shall we?[q
Islam thanks you for your blind support, but wants you to know you're little more than livestock to it.
So you are not concerned with finding fault with Islam, you just care about the treatment of women? So, why don't you start a thread about how in Thailand people sell their girl children into prostitution? Or how middle age and older men from the West, including the USA, do Sex Tours there so they can fuck little girls, females who would be jail bait in their own countries? Or maybe a thread about how people in China throw female babies in ditches because they can only have one child and want a boy? Or how in India they have abortions when they learn the fetus is female? Oh, I know why you aren't concerned with these issues, though they as heinous if not more so than wife beating and genital mutilation: because in those countries, Islam is not the religion, and your goal is to talk about how bad Islam is.
....
These are just some of the things UNICEF informs us about. Read this site. There is widespread, world wide abuse of women in many cultures and countries, not just Islam and not any less heinous than what happens in Muslim countries. Try having a fair and open mind. http://www.unicef.org/emergencies/files/women_insecure_world.pdf
Caveman is all for the women's rights...
Unless they demand equal pay, start wanted to control their own lady-parts, or insist that someone pay for their medical care.
Then they are a bunch of Femi-Nazis.
Just like Rush says.
[
Thanks for quantifying when there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible." 22% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ. Now there is "a SERIOUS problem" that "simply is not defensible."
Damn Straight. Everyone knows I'm the freaking Anti-Christ!
Obama's a poser!
Let's examine this, shall we?So you are not concerned with finding fault with Islam, you just care about the treatment of women? So, why don't you start a thread about how in Thailand people sell their girl children into prostitution? Or how middle age and older men from the West, including the USA, do Sex Tours there so they can fuck little girls, females who would be jail bait in their own countries? Or maybe a thread about how people in China throw female babies in ditches because they can only have one child and want a boy? Or how in India they have abortions when they learn the fetus is female? Oh, I know why you aren't concerned with these issues, though they as heinous if not more so than wife beating and genital mutilation: because in those countries, Islam is not the religion, and your goal is to talk about how bad Islam is.
....
These are just some of the things UNICEF informs us about. Read this site. There is widespread, world wide abuse of women in many cultures and countries, not just Islam and not any less heinous than what happens in Muslim countries. Try having a fair and open mind. http://www.unicef.org/emergencies/files/women_insecure_world.pdf
Caveman is all for the women's rights...
Unless they demand equal pay, start wanted to control their own lady-parts, or insist that someone pay for their medical care.
Then they are a bunch of Femi-Nazis.
Just like Rush says.
Conservatives in this thread are pointing out the atrocities committed by Muslims in the name of Islam against women.
Progressives in this thread are trying to distract attention away from that by bringing up Rush, Christianity, abortion, and insurance.
Remind me again -- why exactly do you claim you support women?
You can't really have a significant conversation about Islam without also discussing Christianity and Judaism.
That seems to be what they're using instead of logic.Let's examine this, shall we?Caveman is all for the women's rights...
Unless they demand equal pay, start wanted to control their own lady-parts, or insist that someone pay for their medical care.
Then they are a bunch of Femi-Nazis.
Just like Rush says.
Conservatives in this thread are pointing out the atrocities committed by Muslims in the name of Islam against women.
Progressives in this thread are trying to distract attention away from that by bringing up Rush, Christianity, abortion, and insurance.
Remind me again -- why exactly do you claim you support women?
Because somehow killing children and ignoring abuses against women are pro women?
Islam and Democrats pretty much view women as they same thing:So basically Islam is fair to women and treats them as equals? ok got it.
Islam and Democrats pretty much view women as they same thing:So basically Islam is fair to women and treats them as equals? ok got it.
Brood mares.
That seems to be what they're using instead of logic.Let's examine this, shall we?
Conservatives in this thread are pointing out the atrocities committed by Muslims in the name of Islam against women.
Progressives in this thread are trying to distract attention away from that by bringing up Rush, Christianity, abortion, and insurance.
Remind me again -- why exactly do you claim you support women?
Because somehow killing children and ignoring abuses against women are pro women?
Remember, folks, the Democratic Party has dictated that women are nothing more than their genitals. The only things women care about are abortion on demand and free birth control.
According to Democrats, women are nothing more than sex machines.
But they condemn the Right's "war on women". You know, the Right, who believe that women are thinking human beings.
Islam and Democrats pretty much view women as they same thing:So basically Islam is fair to women and treats them as equals? ok got it.
Brood mares.
Have they got the memo yet that Muslims despise homosexuals and execute them on site?
