Respected Kuwaiti Scholar on NECESSITY of Beating Your Wife

[Caroljo]

And Muslims are told they can lie as long as it is for Islamic greater good. So everything you just said could be a bunch of BS........

So can any human.

Theologically though, Muslims can generally deceive on the battlefield in warfare, or lie by claiming not to be a Muslim if their life would otherwise be threatened, or can tell falsehoods under torture.

The notion of casual lying to advance the Islamic faith in Islam doesn't hold strong jurisprudential grounds in mainstream Islam. Even under torture or threat of death theologically (according to most popular customs) is to preferred to take death over renouncing your faith.

If you think anything i said is BS I would be happy to support it with theological references or you could actually tell me what you think is wrong and why and I can respond to your critiques with more targeted proof.

I don't think what you're saying is BS, however....it is never ok for a Christian to deny their faith. I would never think of telling someone i was not a Christian, or deny my faith in God, even if a gun was at my head. All through the Bible it talks of liars, and how God hates liars....there is nothing in the Bible that shows that it's ok to lie if it means death. They can kill your body but not your soul.

Moderate Muslims are not speaking up because they're afraid of death. Because we all know that would happen. They would be hunted down and would never be free of fear if the spoke out against the radical muslims. Because of this, I have a hard time trusting any of them.

 

[High_Gravity]

Kuwaiti Scholar Jassem Al-Mutawa: Wife Beating in Islam Treats Women Suffering from Masochism - YouTube

These are from the mouth of the lion. He said them and he owns them. Nothing out of context.

Summary:
(1) Beating are not only allowed by the Koran they are promoted by the Koran.
(2) Without wife beatings the family dynamic breaks down and leads to divorce.
(3) Using harsh words towards a disobedient wife is a must, aka spousal mental abuse is an Islamic duty! Don't leave out breaking her down mentally also!
(4) Refusal of sex is a just reason to beat your wive.
(5) Beat your wive with one of the assortment of rods. They are the "Rods of Obedience." Do you see the size of some of those rods. They are huge. Broken bones all in the name of Islam, so it AOK.
(6) Beating one's wife is a Husband's RIGHT. He can't be prosecuted under the law, unless he kills her!
(7) A wife has no right to beat her husband, even in self-defense. "Islam spared the wife of a need to use violence." However, a wife can get another man to beat her husband, but only after she goes to court and the court awards it. Yep fat chance of that happening.
(8) Comical moment in the broadcast: Beating your wife with a handkerchief is considered "extreme" and even laughable. I would do no damage.
(9) Beating your wife sends a message: "I'm not pleased with your behavior."
(10) The cure to the mental disorders of sadism and masochism? You guessed it - BEATING YOUR WIFE!!! Not only does the Koran allow this it promotes it as a cure! Don't take the Koran's word for it, Islamic psychiatrist say it's the cure and regularly tell the husbands of their patients to start beating their wives!
(11) BIGGEST FABRICATION: The scholar actually claims: "No women died from Islamic wife beatings." OK nutbar!

Damn.

but i wonder what is the percentage of divorces there.

Its low, you need the permission of the man to get a divorce.

 

[Hollie]

Kuwaiti Scholar Jassem Al-Mutawa: Wife Beating in Islam Treats Women Suffering from Masochism - YouTube

These are from the mouth of the lion. He said them and he owns them. Nothing out of context.

Summary:
(1) Beating are not only allowed by the Koran they are promoted by the Koran.
(2) Without wife beatings the family dynamic breaks down and leads to divorce.
(3) Using harsh words towards a disobedient wife is a must, aka spousal mental abuse is an Islamic duty! Don't leave out breaking her down mentally also!
(4) Refusal of sex is a just reason to beat your wive.
(5) Beat your wive with one of the assortment of rods. They are the "Rods of Obedience." Do you see the size of some of those rods. They are huge. Broken bones all in the name of Islam, so it AOK.
(6) Beating one's wife is a Husband's RIGHT. He can't be prosecuted under the law, unless he kills her!
(7) A wife has no right to beat her husband, even in self-defense. "Islam spared the wife of a need to use violence." However, a wife can get another man to beat her husband, but only after she goes to court and the court awards it. Yep fat chance of that happening.
(8) Comical moment in the broadcast: Beating your wife with a handkerchief is considered "extreme" and even laughable. I would do no damage.
(9) Beating your wife sends a message: "I'm not pleased with your behavior."
(10) The cure to the mental disorders of sadism and masochism? You guessed it - BEATING YOUR WIFE!!! Not only does the Koran allow this it promotes it as a cure! Don't take the Koran's word for it, Islamic psychiatrist say it's the cure and regularly tell the husbands of their patients to start beating their wives!
(11) BIGGEST FABRICATION: The scholar actually claims: "No women died from Islamic wife beatings." OK nutbar!

Damn.

but i wonder what is the percentage of divorces there.

Its low, you need the permission of the man to get a divorce.

Yep. Or the woman can get splashed in the face with acid. Surely us bitches deserve that.

It's a man's world in ummah'istan.

 

[Esmeralda]

And Muslims are told they can lie as long as it is for Islamic greater good. So everything you just said could be a bunch of BS........

So can any human.

Theologically though, Muslims can generally deceive on the battlefield in warfare, or lie by claiming not to be a Muslim if their life would otherwise be threatened, or can tell falsehoods under torture.

The notion of casual lying to advance the Islamic faith in Islam doesn't hold strong jurisprudential grounds in mainstream Islam. Even under torture or threat of death theologically (according to most popular customs) is to preferred to take death over renouncing your faith.

If you think anything i said is BS I would be happy to support it with theological references or you could actually tell me what you think is wrong and why and I can respond to your critiques with more targeted proof.

I don't think what you're saying is BS, however....it is never ok for a Christian to deny their faith. I would never think of telling someone i was not a Christian, or deny my faith in God, even if a gun was at my head. All through the Bible it talks of liars, and how God hates liars....there is nothing in the Bible that shows that it's ok to lie if it means death. They can kill your body but not your soul.

Moderate Muslims are not speaking up because they're afraid of death. Because we all know that would happen. They would be hunted down and would never be free of fear if the spoke out against the radical muslims. Because of this, I have a hard time trusting any of them.

I never believe when someone says "I would never do that, even at gun point," etc. No one knows what they will do in that kind of situation. No one can say with any certainty what they will do under such circumstances.

Modern Muslims do speak against things; you just don't hear them because maybe it's in Arabic or another language, maybe it's spoken against in their own communities, maybe the media isn't publishing it. In any case, they are under no obigation to you or anyone to speak up and explain about the bad people in their culture. Americans don't explain away mass shootings, for example. In fact, they essentially defend them by promoting more gun use in this country. People in other countries think Americans are crazy because they let this gun culture go on and on and don't stop it with strict gun laws. They also think America is a very racist country because of the things they see in the news. In neither case are Americans reaching out to Muslim or other countries and apologizing for or speaking out again or trying to explain the violence and racism that others see as very prevalent in our country. You have a one-way-street vision of the world.

 

[Bfgrn]

Question for Osomir and Esmerelda:

What are your thoughts on Islamic female genital mutilation?

Here are 3 novels by modern female Arabic writers. Read them and get some perspective on the life of modern Arabic women.

From Sleep Unbound by Andree Chedid (the author is female; the protagonist of the novel is a Christian Arabic woman in Egypt)

Chaos of the Senses by A. Mosteghanemi- Algeria


Reading Lolita in Tehran by Azar Nafisi

One thing you will see is that how women are treated varies by culture. It is not the same for all Muslim women in all countries. Also, Chistian women in certain cultures don't fare any better; it's culture, not religion. Another thing to not is that there are women out there, Arabic women, Muslim women writing modern novels, commenting on the place and role of women in modern Arabic society. In the last century, a lot of things changed for women in the West, in large part because of women writers, both fiction and not fiction. The same will happen in Arabic culture too. It is happening.

Female circumcision: I think it is not as prevalent as some think. I am definitely very much against it, of course: it is horrific. I have to go now. Will get back to this later.

 

[Esmeralda]

Question for Osomir and Esmerelda:

What are your thoughts on Islamic female genital mutilation?

Here are 3 novels by modern female Arabic writers. Read them and get some perspective on the life of modern Arabic women.

From Sleep Unbound by Andree Chedid (the author is female; the protagonist of the novel is a Christian Arabic woman in Egypt)

Chaos of the Senses by A. Mosteghanemi- Algeria


Reading Lolita in Tehran by Azar Nafisi

One thing you will see is that how women are treated varies by culture. It is not the same for all Muslim women in all countries. Also, Chistian women in certain cultures don't fare any better; it's culture, not religion. Another thing to not is that there are women out there, Arabic women, Muslim women writing modern novels, commenting on the place and role of women in modern Arabic society. In the last century, a lot of things changed for women in the West, in large part because of women writers, both fiction and not fiction. The same will happen in Arabic culture too. It is happening.

Female circumcision: I think it is not as prevalent as some think. I am definitely very much against it, of course: it is horrific. I have to go now. Will get back to this later.

Yep, when the fundamentalists take over, it is not a good thing. You could get the same kind of photos as above from Tehran, Iran. When the right wing, conservatives in this country go on and on about Christian values and turning back the clock away from secularism and away from liberalism, what we would end up with is a Christian theocracy and women, as well as others in American society, would be going back to the days that were not so good at all. Religion needs to stay out of government.

 

[Esmeralda]

Question for Osomir and Esmerelda:

What are your thoughts on Islamic female genital mutilation?

First, I'd like to try to put things into perspective. This thread and others like it seem to have the purpose of whipping up hatred for people of the Muslim faith. The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.

There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world. According to the World Health Organization, 140 million females around the world have experienced genital mutilation. I'm not great at math, but I think, IF all these females are Muslim, that would be about 16.5% of the female Muslim population has experienced genital mutilation, 11.7% of them in Africa, in some of the most poor and uneducated countries on Earth. "It is practiced mainly in 28 countries in western, eastern, and north-eastern Africa, particularly Egypt and Ethiopia, and in parts of Asia and the Middle East." Wiki

Most of the modern world is against this procedure. Obviously it is not a Muslim thing practiced by all Muslims. Mainly by those who are fundamentalists, are very conservative, and it is their interpretation of the Koran. It's like 'covering.' Covering varies from country to country, and in many there is no covering at all. It's the same as the Bible and the way different sects or groups of Christians interpret the Bible. The only way to get rid of FGM is education and modernization. Hatred for the Islamic faith in general and blaming all Muslims for this is not going to help. Most Muslim men and women are against this practice and most Muslim women are not subjected to it (approximately 85% are NOT subjected to this practice). As well, if you read the Wiki article on it, where it is practiced, the women are strong supporters of it; the mothers wanting this for their daughters. It is not something forced on them by men. It is a CULTURAL THING, not a Muslim thing

 

[daveman]

The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.

The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.

And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.

But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."

Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.

 

[High_Gravity]

The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.

The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.

And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.

But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."

Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.

They do it in Egypt too, and the African Muslim countries like Sudan, Mali etc its a tradition.

 

[Esmeralda]

The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.

The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.

And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.

But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."

Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.

~So because of one idiot in Oman, you know more than the World Health Organization. LOL Yea, right

 

[Esmeralda]

The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.

The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.

And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.

But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."

Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.

They do it in Egypt too, and the African Muslim countries like Sudan, Mali etc its a tradition.

According to the World Health Organization, about 16%, world wide. 85% do not do it. Of course, Americans are perfect.

I am not defending or justifying domestic violence in any part of the world. But Americans need to look at themselves as well as at others and not be so arrogant and supercilious about this issue.

In the US: According to a report by the United States Department of Justice in 2000, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1 percent of women and 7.4 percent of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime. ... For women between 15 and 44, domestic violence is the leading cause of injury, more than rapes, muggings, and car accidents combined. 60% of American Indian and Alaska Native women will be physically assaulted in their lifetime. One in 6 women have experienced an attempted or completed rape against a partner. In 1999 in the United States, 1,218 women and 424 men were killed by an intimate partner, and 1,181 females and 329 males were killed by their intimate partners in 2005. According to the authors of "Housing Problems and Domestic Violence," 38% of domestic violence victims will become homeless in their lifetime. Domestic violence is the direct cause of homelessness for over half of all homeless women in the United States (wiki)

Instead of looking down your nose at other cultures (and religions, and yes, the intent of this thread is to promote hatred of Islam), look in your own backyard. American culture has plenty of faults of its own.

 

[daveman]

The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.

The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.

And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.

But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."

Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.

~So because of one idiot in Oman, you know more than the World Health Organization. LOL Yea, right

I guess you missed my post where I showed that the Muslim Brotherhood, whom President Obama supports, is trying to re-introduce FGM in Egypt.

Nevertheless, you failed to grasp my obvious point:

If a Muslim man in a Western-friendly country like Oman is comfortable suggesting FGM to a married American woman, it must be more prevalent than the West knows.

 

[daveman]

The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.

And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.

But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."

Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.

They do it in Egypt too, and the African Muslim countries like Sudan, Mali etc its a tradition.

According to the World Health Organization, about 16%, world wide. 85% do not do it. Of course, Americans are perfect.

I am not defending or justifying domestic violence in any part of the world. But Americans need to look at themselves as well as at others and not be so arrogant and supercilious about this issue.

In the US: According to a report by the United States Department of Justice in 2000, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1 percent of women and 7.4 percent of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime. ... For women between 15 and 44, domestic violence is the leading cause of injury, more than rapes, muggings, and car accidents combined. 60% of American Indian and Alaska Native women will be physically assaulted in their lifetime. One in 6 women have experienced an attempted or completed rape against a partner. In 1999 in the United States, 1,218 women and 424 men were killed by an intimate partner, and 1,181 females and 329 males were killed by their intimate partners in 2005. According to the authors of "Housing Problems and Domestic Violence," 38% of domestic violence victims will become homeless in their lifetime. Domestic violence is the direct cause of homelessness for over half of all homeless women in the United States (wiki)

Instead of looking down your nose at other cultures (and religions, and yes, the intent of this thread is to promote hatred of Islam), look in your own backyard. American culture has plenty of faults of its own.

Pointing out truths about Islam is not hatred.

Islam thanks you for your blind support, but wants you to know you're little more than livestock to it.

 

[Esmeralda]

The reason I snipped everything else is that it follows from this one statement.

And this statement is utterly false. I never made that claim.

But I do think it's more prevalent than apologists want us to believe. My wife met a man in Oman who wanted to marry her. He said, "The first thing I'd do is take you to the doctor and get you cut."

Oman. Western-friendly, modern Oman.

~So because of one idiot in Oman, you know more than the World Health Organization. LOL Yea, right

I guess you missed my post where I showed that the Muslim Brotherhood, whom President Obama supports, is trying to re-introduce FGM in Egypt.

Nevertheless, you failed to grasp my obvious point:

If a Muslim man in a Western-friendly country like Oman is comfortable suggesting FGM to a married American woman, it must be more prevalent than the West knows.

I got the point quite easily. I lived for 2 years in one ME country where I was proposed to quite a few times by Muslim men. I don't know why your wife thinks this guy in Oman proposed to her, but usually it is because they think Western women have money. Also, if a Western woman is what in the West would be commonly friendly to a man in the ME, she might give the impression she is interested in him. They may be interested in a Western woman for her potential economic situation or just because she is blond and nice looking. The point that you may miss is that any man, anywhere in the world, who will propose to a woman he barely knows (apparently this guy didn't even know your wife well enough to know she was already married) is a man who is a joke. A man who is a joke is a man who will say anything and is generally not an average type of guy. Think about it, how many normal, average American men are going to seriously propose to a woman they've just met, from a completely different country, someone they don't know anything about, etc.? Only fools. Only a guy who is a joke. So whatever this guy said to her, I would take with a grain of salt. Pretty meaningless. Most normal, average Middle Eastern men, a man one would take seriously, are not like this guy. To women who have spent time in the Middle East, most know there is a type of guy who will propose. IThey think Western women are 'easy' and rich.

 

[Esmeralda]

They do it in Egypt too, and the African Muslim countries like Sudan, Mali etc its a tradition.

According to the World Health Organization, about 16%, world wide. 85% do not do it. Of course, Americans are perfect.

I am not defending or justifying domestic violence in any part of the world. But Americans need to look at themselves as well as at others and not be so arrogant and supercilious about this issue.

In the US: According to a report by the United States Department of Justice in 2000, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1 percent of women and 7.4 percent of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime. ... For women between 15 and 44, domestic violence is the leading cause of injury, more than rapes, muggings, and car accidents combined. 60% of American Indian and Alaska Native women will be physically assaulted in their lifetime. One in 6 women have experienced an attempted or completed rape against a partner. In 1999 in the United States, 1,218 women and 424 men were killed by an intimate partner, and 1,181 females and 329 males were killed by their intimate partners in 2005. According to the authors of "Housing Problems and Domestic Violence," 38% of domestic violence victims will become homeless in their lifetime. Domestic violence is the direct cause of homelessness for over half of all homeless women in the United States (wiki)

Instead of looking down your nose at other cultures (and religions, and yes, the intent of this thread is to promote hatred of Islam), look in your own backyard. American culture has plenty of faults of its own.

Pointing out truths about Islam is not hatred.

Islam thanks you for your blind support, but wants you to know you're little more than livestock to it.

So you are not concerned with finding fault with Islam, you just care about the treatment of women? So, why don't you start a thread about how in Thailand people sell their girl children into prostitution? Or how middle age and older men from the West, including the USA, do Sex Tours there so they can fuck little girls, females who would be jail bait in their own countries? Or maybe a thread about how people in China throw female babies in ditches because they can only have one child and want a boy? Or how in India they have abortions when they learn the fetus is female? Oh, I know why you aren't concerned with these issues, though they as heinous if not more so than wife beating and genital mutilation: because in those countries, Islam is not the religion, and your goal is to talk about how bad Islam is.

BTW: Obama does not 'support' the Muslim Brotherhood. He maintains diplomatic relations with them. This is two very different things. I'm certain he would prefer to have better people to deal with, but he doesn't.

If you are so interested in the mistreatment of women, pick any one of these, one that doesn't just focus on how bad Islam is, and start a thread about that. I dare you.

Selective abortion and female
infanticideAmartya Sen, the 1998 Nobel Laureate for
Economics, estimates that more than 60
million women are demographically
‘missing’ from the world as a result of sexselective
abortions and female infanticide
in China, South Asia and North Africa.

The ‘female deficit’In poor communities, little girls are often
neglected and denied food, education and
medical care. Data from developing
countries indicates that the mortality rate
among girls aged one to four is higher than
that among boys in the same age group.
This is just the beginning of a lifetime pattern of discrimination against women in
differential access to health care, education
and leisure. This causes excess mortality
among women and girls, and contributes to
their lack of opportunities and
powerlessness.
UNICEF refers to maternal mortality as ‘in
scale and severity the most neglected
tragedy of our times.’



Some facts on women’s statusIn all manifestations of poverty, women tend
to fare worse than men:
• 66 per cent of the world’s illiterate people
are women.
• Women provide 70 per cent of the unpaid
time spent in caring for family members.
This unpaid work provided by women is
estimated at US$11 trillion per year – onethird
of the global GDP.
• Women own one per cent of the land in
the world.
• Women’s participation in managerial and
administrative posts is around 33 per cent
in the developed world, l5 per cent in
Africa and 13 per cent in Asia and the
Pacific.
• There are only five women chief
executives in the ‘Fortune 500’
corporations, the most valuable publicly
owned companies in the United States.
• Worldwide, only about fourteen per cent
of members of parliament are women.
Seven per cent of the world’s cabinet
ministers are women.
• In the United Nations system, women
hold only 9 per cent of the top
management jobs and 21 per cent of
senior management positions, but 48 per
cent of the junior professional civil service
slots.
These facts come from UNICEF, an organization I consider unbiased. If one is going to discuss an issue like this, any issue really, sources should be unbiased.

According to UNICEF, the countries with the highest rate of rape are: Mexico with 42% (they're not Muslim), followed by Nicaragua, Peru, Thailand and Zimbabwe, which are in the 25% range.

Sexual abuse of girlsA review of 25 studies worldwide indicates
that 11 to 32 percent of women report
having experienced childhood sexual
abuse.
Sexual abuse of girls, often by family
members, is widespread but shrouded in
taboo. In a treatment centre in Nigeria, 15
per cent of female patients requiring
treatment for sexually transmitted diseases
were under the age of five, with a further
six per cent between the ages of six and 15
years. In South Africa, one in four men
report having had sex with a woman
against her consent by the time he was 18
years of age.

These are just some of the things UNICEF informs us about. Read this site. There is widespread, world wide abuse of women in many cultures and countries, not just Islam and not any less heinous than what happens in Muslim countries. Try having a fair and open mind. http://www.unicef.org/emergencies/files/women_insecure_world.pdf

 

[Agent.Tom]

I just want to be the first to say THANK YOU to Esmeralda for posting photos of oppressed Muslim women cowering behind burkas, and then going straight into a tirade about Christian Fundamentalism.

I mean, what a brilliant connecting of the dots. The Taliban does its evil magic on the female populace of Afghanistan for a couple of decades, but lest we forget... certain Christian women "don't fare any better."

What an utter and complete stretch and an obvious attempt to divert from the truth, and derail the thread into an attack on Christians. Well done. Slow claps for Esmeralda.

 

[rdean]

US House GOP Blocks Violence Against Women Act

Marco Rubio Leads Charge Of 22 GOP Male Senators To Block Violence Against Women Act

You'd think they were "Muslims".

Do Republicans understand that wives are also women? One wonders.

Are you really ignorant enough to believe that Republicans just "hate women" and therefore vote down any law created to protect them?

I'm willing to bet that the "violence against women act" was either (a) anything BUT an act created to stop real violence against women, or (b) infested and encrusted with rotten Liberal PORK that had nothing to do with the act itself. I can also pretty much also guarantee that the act itself never had any intention of helping women or even passing through the House... rather, it was contrived as a political football to be used in Liberal talking points that the low-information voters would fall for.

Did you hear? Republicans hate clean water, clean air, and old people too!

Willing to bet? You don't know?

 

[rdean]

I just want to be the first to say THANK YOU to Esmeralda for posting photos of oppressed Muslim women cowering behind burkas, and then going straight into a tirade about Christian Fundamentalism.

I mean, what a brilliant connecting of the dots. The Taliban does its evil magic on the female populace of Afghanistan for a couple of decades, but lest we forget... certain Christian women "don't fare any better."

What an utter and complete stretch and an obvious attempt to divert from the truth, and derail the thread into an attack on Christians. Well done. Slow claps for Esmeralda.

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

Full Text of Iraqi Constitution

This is not from the old Iraqi Constitution. This is the one Republicans helped the Iraqis write after they "freed" Iraq from Saddam. Republicans don't really have a problem with the Church being in charge. They want to do that here, only what they imagine Christianity to be instead of Islam. It's why they want "school prayer" and "pledges to God" and why they deny evolution among other science.

 

[Agent.Tom]

Oh God. Now the next Liberal parrot turns this into a Republican-bashing thread. Is there an end to your seething hatred for those whom oppose your view, rdean?

OP: Kuwaiti Scholar speaks of the necessity of beating your wife -- a post touching on the stark reality that Muslim women are among the most, if not the most oppressed and abused women in all the world.

Esmeralda: Oh yeah? Christian women have it worse!

Rdean: I hear ya, girlfriend! And let me take this opportunity to tell everyone how evil Republicans are!


I'm in awe, having witnessed such relevant, honest, and productive insights.


Meanwhile... getting back to the actual subject... I expect that I'm not the only person here who has noticed the countrywide phenomenon and double standard in that the Liberal Party lovingly embraces Islam while claiming moral high ground in their ongoing battle to safeguard women's rights. Similarly, has anyone noticed that it's the very same Liberals who insist that any mention of Christianity be removed from the public square, who also push to have Islam studies be included in public school curriculums?

It just boggles the mind.... the all-out oppression and abuse of women that is prevalent in Muslim culture should be denounced by everyone. But the last people you would expect to turn a blind eye to it would be the Progressive Liberals who supposedly champion women's rights. (and this also applies to gay rights activists... when was the last time you saw them lash out at the murder and mistreatment of gays in Muslim communities? Nope, their biggest problem in all the world, was not being given government handouts for tying the knot with their lover).

 

[FA_Q2]

Question for Osomir and Esmerelda:

What are your thoughts on Islamic female genital mutilation?

First, I'd like to try to put things into perspective. This thread and others like it seem to have the purpose of whipping up hatred for people of the Muslim faith. The idea that all women of the Muslim faith experience genital mutilation is one way of doing that.

There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world. According to the World Health Organization, 140 million females around the world have experienced genital mutilation. I'm not great at math, but I think, IF all these females are Muslim, that would be about 16.5% of the female Muslim population has experienced genital mutilation, 11.7% of them in Africa, in some of the most poor and uneducated countries on Earth. "It is practiced mainly in 28 countries in western, eastern, and north-eastern Africa, particularly Egypt and Ethiopia, and in parts of Asia and the Middle East." Wiki

Most of the modern world is against this procedure. Obviously it is not a Muslim thing practiced by all Muslims. Mainly by those who are fundamentalists, are very conservative, and it is their interpretation of the Koran. It's like 'covering.' Covering varies from country to country, and in many there is no covering at all. It's the same as the Bible and the way different sects or groups of Christians interpret the Bible. The only way to get rid of FGM is education and modernization. Hatred for the Islamic faith in general and blaming all Muslims for this is not going to help. Most Muslim men and women are against this practice and most Muslim women are not subjected to it (approximately 85% are NOT subjected to this practice). As well, if you read the Wiki article on it, where it is practiced, the women are strong supporters of it; the mothers wanting this for their daughters. It is not something forced on them by men. It is a CULTURAL THING, not a Muslim thing

You do realize that 16 percent is a MASSIVE number when talking about such inhumane and terrible treatment. When you are looking at a number that large, there is a SERIOUS problem with Islam’s acceptance of that practice throughout the world.

10 percent is WAY over what can be considered as not ‘tolerated’ by the tenants in question. If that many Muslims are accepting of this practice than that simply is not defensible. Trying to hide the problem is not going to solve it either. That is likely one of the reasons that it is still a problem, the majority of Muslims seem to be ignoring the fact that more than 10 percent of those that are of the same faith seem to ascribe to some barbaric practices.