...riffing off of another thread....James' seizing property....

[LordBrownTrout]

back again ? I thought you were tired of getting utterly destroyed by me on this board .. you know darn good and well the prosecutions and judgments against Trump are political ..

Of course it knows.

 

[Thinker101]

The macista types think people like musk are just loaded down with trillions at their fingertips.

 

[Lisa558]

Sounds like you feel those with money just have cash laying in their secret cash drawer...WTF, are you 12?

Democrats feel entitled to other people’s money.

 

[Lisa558]

No, your mommy doesn't work here. There was a trial. Go read up on it.

IOW, you can’t answer. But I can: he injured nobody and there was no victim.

 

[Chillicothe]

You ignored that this is a case of selective prosecution, in which there was no victim, and has never been tried before, and was done specifically to ruin the target.

1. ALL...prosecutions are selective. It is the nature of the beast. If a perp is guilty....yet evidence of that guilt is weak or conflicting and the risk of losing in trial is very real....well, the office has only so many resources in time, money, personnel....so let us 'selectively' choose those that the evidence is strong and clear, and likely to convince a jury or a judge. ?Clearly the prosecutor's office in this fraud case felt they had clear and convincing evidence that was persuasive for a conviction. They were correct in that.

2. As far as victims.... yes there were victims. One can do a quick nano search of google and develop a multitude of lists. Many center on the reality that he acquired unfair advantage in competing in bidded projects, e.g., the old Post Office building in DC.

• $126.8 million in profit from converting the Old Post Office building in Washington, D.C. into a hotel, under a contract obtained through his use of false financial statements. Fraud that allowed him an advantage over other bidders.
• $60 million in “windfall profit” from selling Ferry Point golf course in the Bronx, whose license agreement relied on his false financial statements, to Bally’s Corp. Again, his fraudulent advantage ..... put him in a favorable advantage over other competing interests.

3. 'Done to specifically ruin the defendant, Trump. Ummm? Got a link for that motivation?
Holding a duly charged defendant accountable for his deceits and frauds needs no other motivation than 'justice'.

 

[Catsnmeters]

who was defrauded ... who were the entities that were damaged that 500 mil is needed to compensate said injured parties ?

Sigh. As I predicted.

No victims required.

Do you think Trump and his defense are stupid?

 

[Catsnmeters]

The buildings and resorts aren't being burnt down. If a guy wants to caddy for some rich twat at the resort, he still can. He'll just have a new guy signing his paychecks.

Good point.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Notice your desperate talking points have to entirely sidestep any discussion of the law or the evidence.

The law and the evidence are and have been clear and to the point. Trump is liable. MAGA lawfare is failing. Again.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Do you even know WTF you're babbling about?

Admittedly I am not a lawyer.

I am simply reading the decision rendered by the judge.

What's your source?

 

[Oddball]

Admittedly I am not a lawyer.

I am simply reading the decision rendered by the judge.

What's your source?

I'll sore that one a big "NO".

Thanks for the admission.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The city can't run a business like that so they would take the lien route.... or just lock the doors....

The city can't run a business because they are prohibited from running any business. The court might appoint a receiver to run things until there is a sale or until the business is dismantled. There would be no buyers for Trump Tower or 40 Wall Street. Likely no receiver e8ther. Just lock the doors and send everyone home.

 

[Catsnmeters]

It isn't fraud....

Yes it was.

he at best over valued his holdings something people do all the time... Have you ever sold a home?... you say the value is say $300,000 the buyer offers less and says its worth $250,000 and on any bank loan where property is involved people will always over value and its up to the lender to do their own evaluation... this isn't fraud... look into the Biden crime family if you want to see fraud...

Yes. It was fraud. I have never sold a house but the above scenario is not what happened.

I have never done this either; have you?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwie0fudz4qFAxXrGDQIHcQwACcQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2G_HQP_5PRkweoC1I6s5y7

Donald Trump’s Triplex Apartment at Trump Tower, New York, NY
Valuations of this property were calculated using objectively false numbers. For
example, the apartment was valued as being 30,000 square feet when it was actually
10,996 square feet. As a result, in 2015, the apartment was valued at $327 million in
total, or $29,738 per square foot. That price was absurd given the fact that at that point
only one apartment in New York City had ever sold for even $100 million, at a price per
square foot of less than $10,000, and that sale was in a newly built, ultra-tall tower. In
the 30 year-old Trump Tower, the record sale at that time was a mere $16.5 million at a
price of less than $4,500 per square foot.


Make a thread about Biden if you want.

This thread is about Trump.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Sorry you are confused.

Just reading from the decision.

 

[Catsnmeters]

I'll sore that one a big "NO".

Thanks for the admission.

Thanks for admitting I'm not a lawyer?

Are you a lawyer?

All your posts regarding this subject are based off on your independent legal acumen and not from media pundits or the actual fraud report?

I'm impressed. You must be pretty confident the appeal will over turn the whole case. Right?

 

[Lisa558]

Yes it was.


Yes. It was fraud. I have never sold a house but the above scenario is not what happened.

I have never done this either; have you?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwie0fudz4qFAxXrGDQIHcQwACcQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2G_HQP_5PRkweoC1I6s5y7

Donald Trump’s Triplex Apartment at Trump Tower, New York, NY
Valuations of this property were calculated using objectively false numbers. For
example, the apartment was valued as being 30,000 square feet when it was actually
10,996 square feet. As a result, in 2015, the apartment was valued at $327 million in
total, or $29,738 per square foot. That price was absurd given the fact that at that point
only one apartment in New York City had ever sold for even $100 million, at a price per
square foot of less than $10,000, and that sale was in a newly built, ultra-tall tower. In
the 30 year-old Trump Tower, the record sale at that time was a mere $16.5 million at a
price of less than $4,500 per square foot.


Make a thread about Biden if you want.

This thread is about Trump.

You think the bank didn’t know the size of his triplex? They knew - and were thrilled to nab him as a borrower. No harm, no foul.

 

[Catsnmeters]

You think the bank didn’t know the size of his triplex? They knew - and were thrilled to nab him as a borrower. No harm, no foul.

Irrelevant.

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/ef72526861902856/1e996397-full.pdf

Indeed, materiality under this statute is judged not by reference to reliance by or materiality
to a particular victim, but rather on whether the financial statement properly reflected the
financial condition of the person to which the statement pertains . People v Essner, 124 Misc 2d
830, 835 (Sup Ct, NY County 1984) ( there need be no victim, ergo, reliance is neither an
element ofthe crime nor a valid yardstick with which to test the materiality of a false
statement ) .



It was fraud.

 

[80zephyr]

I very much doubt that he has anywhere near the cash he claimed. He's not very honest. Maybe Vlad can Venmo him a chunk for some future considerations.

Cuban hits Ted Lieu over Trump bond fee comments: ‘You are wrong’

Mark Cuban said Tuesday that Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) is wrong after the lawmaker questioned if former President Trump is really a billionaire given the fact that his lawyers said he might not be a…

thehill.com

 

[Lisa558]

Irrelevant.

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/ef72526861902856/1e996397-full.pdf

Indeed, materiality under this statute is judged not by reference to reliance by or materiality
to a particular victim, but rather on whether the financial statement properly reflected the
financial condition of the person to which the statement pertains . People v Essner, 124 Misc 2d
830, 835 (Sup Ct, NY County 1984) ( there need be no victim, ergo, reliance is neither an
element ofthe crime nor a valid yardstick with which to test the materiality of a false
statement ) .



It was fraud.

So there should be a modest civil penalty, since there were no damages.

How much have other wealthy people in the same position - made a loan with a bank, and paid it back on time, and nobody was damaged - had NY gone after?

 

[noonereal]

Cuban hits Ted Lieu over Trump bond fee comments: ‘You are wrong’

Mark Cuban said Tuesday that Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) is wrong after the lawmaker questioned if former President Trump is really a billionaire given the fact that his lawyers said he might not be a…

thehill.com

Cuban is not verifying Trump's worth in your link as you appear to suggest.

 

[Catsnmeters]

So there should be a modest civil penalty, since there were no damages.

No. Their are no penalties. (From the same link).

Where, as here, there is a claim based on fraudulent activity,
disgorgement may be available as an equitable remedy,
notwithstanding the absence of loss to individuals or independent
claims for restitution. Disgorgement is distinct from the remedy of
restitution because it focuses on the gain to the wrongdoer as
opposed to the loss to the victim. Thus, disgorgement aims to deter
wrongdoing by preventing the wrongdoer from retaining ill-gotten
gains from fraudulent conduct. Accordingly , the remedy of
disgorgement does not require a showing or allegation of direct.losses to consumers or the public; the source ofthe ill- gotten gains
is immaterial.

How much have other wealthy people in the same position - made a loan with a bank, and paid it back on time, and nobody was damaged - had NY gone after?

Trump is simply paying back what his fraudulent activities garnered him...plus appropriate interest.

How much of the fraudulently obtained money do you think Trump should get to keep.

I don't know how many others have been convicted of fraud but here are some...

Survey of Past New York Felony Prosecutions for Falsifying Business Records

A survey of years of New York criminal cases, which shows that the prosecution of falsifying business records in first degree is common.

www.justsecurity.org