Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market

[Dan Stubbs]

This has been going on in many places in the nation for decades.
Now one of the biggest victims of AGW showing evidence of what is to come.
For all you warming deniers: you Clowns who say "it's colder than normal in Chicago today, so it can't be warming".
Would you write a 30 year mortgage on a Miami waterfront house?

Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market
Properties on the coast now trade at Discounts as flood waters and ‘king tides’ damp enthusiasm for oceanfront living
By Laura Kusisto and Arian Campo-Flores
Wall Street Journal - April 20, 2018
Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market

MIAMI—Concerns over rising sea levels and floods are beginning to reshape one of the country’s largest housing markets, with properties closer to sea level now trading at discounts to those at higher elevations.

Research published Friday in the journal of Environmental Research Letters shows that single-family homes in Miami-Dade County are rising in value more slowly near sea level than at higher elevations, as buyers weigh the possibilities of more-frequent minor flooding in the short term and the challenge of reselling...
[....]​

balance by subscription, but you get the picture.
`

Uh.. You might to glance at the evidence before you flee like a lemming from Miami real estate.

I'm gonna call the linear estimate about 30mm in 20 years. Which is FAR BELOW the world average. Which is 1.5mm/yr or 15mm/decade. For those of you with yardsticks -- that's 0.6" inch per decade.

The much larger problem is WHERE the newer parts of miami are being built. Everyone wants waterfront property or views and it was used up YEARS ago. And all of Florida is a big wet sponge. You ever flown over it? I was a private pilot in Florida for years. Looks EXACTLY like a wet sponge.

Water tables right near the coast are even more fickle than inland.

Anyways.. If you can't change consumer demand and CONTINUE to build right on the beach or waterways and YOU KNOW there's gonna hurricanes --- 6" of sea level rise shouldn't STOP your engineering plans. If you can't DEAL with 0.6" of sea level per decade --- you're NOT gonna survive hurricanes anyways.

Like most people to were born in South Fla this is normal to the people who have live in the area. Many moved out hat lived and or spent alot of time in the area. To many people in a small area. Broward County is about 80 percent covered by water.

 

[westwall]

This has been going on in many places in the nation for decades.
Now one of the biggest victims of AGW showing evidence of what is to come.
For all you warming deniers: you Clowns who say "it's colder than normal in Chicago today, so it can't be warming".
Would you write a 30 year mortgage on a Miami waterfront house?

Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market
Properties on the coast now trade at Discounts as flood waters and ‘king tides’ damp enthusiasm for oceanfront living
By Laura Kusisto and Arian Campo-Flores
Wall Street Journal - April 20, 2018
Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market

MIAMI—Concerns over rising sea levels and floods are beginning to reshape one of the country’s largest housing markets, with properties closer to sea level now trading at discounts to those at higher elevations.

Research published Friday in the journal of Environmental Research Letters shows that single-family homes in Miami-Dade County are rising in value more slowly near sea level than at higher elevations, as buyers weigh the possibilities of more-frequent minor flooding in the short term and the challenge of reselling...
[....]​

balance by subscription, but you get the picture.
`

Uh.. You might to glance at the evidence before you flee like a lemming from Miami real estate.

I'm gonna call the linear estimate about 30mm in 20 years. Which is FAR BELOW the world average. Which is 1.5mm/yr or 15mm/decade. For those of you with yardsticks -- that's 0.6" inch per decade.

The much larger problem is WHERE the newer parts of miami are being built. Everyone wants waterfront property or views and it was used up YEARS ago. And all of Florida is a big wet sponge. You ever flown over it? I was a private pilot in Florida for years. Looks EXACTLY like a wet sponge.

Water tables right near the coast are even more fickle than inland.

Anyways.. If you can't change consumer demand and CONTINUE to build right on the beach or waterways and YOU KNOW there's gonna hurricanes --- 6" of sea level rise shouldn't STOP your engineering plans. If you can't DEAL with 0.6" of sea level per decade --- you're NOT gonna survive hurricanes anyways.

Like most people to were born in South Fla this is normal to the people who have live in the area. Many moved out hat lived and or spent alot of time in the area. To many people in a small area. Broward County is about 80 percent covered by water.

Dan You ******** Moron
IN case your haven't noriced (everyone else has) it's been getting significantly Worse for 20 YEARS..
and MUCH worse in the last 6 or 7.

Almost an Inch a year worse.
Read the string Bimbo.
In fact/duh, just read what you quoted.
`

No, it hasn't. The loss of beach sand has gotten worse, so they have had to truck more in, but the sea level rise has been so minor that only in computer models does it show an effect. Like I said, a 5mm rise is inconsequential.

 

[flacaltenn]

Where does the word "consensus" exist in the Scientific Method. I'll wait...

(moromic emoticon that only Stupid deniers like to use deleted in quote)
Uh...
Scientific consensus - Wikipedia

Scientific consensus
is the collective judgment, position, and opinion of the community of scientists in a particular field of study. Consensus implies general agreement, though not necessarily unanimity.[1]

Consensus is normally achieved through communication at conferences, the publication process, replication (reproducible results by others), and peer review. These lead to a situation in which those within the discipline can often recognize such a consensus where it exists, but communicating to outsiders that consensus has been reached can be difficult, because the 'normal' debates through which science progresses may seem to outsiders as contestation.[2] On occasion, scientific institutes issue position statements intended to communicate a summary of the science from the "inside" to the "outside" of the scientific community. In cases where there is little controversy regarding the subject under study, establishing what the consensus is can be quite straightforward.
....
​

`

Consensus only works on ONE question at time. I count at least a dozen KEY CRITICAL questions to understand the scope and breadth of Climate Change. Which QUESTION do you believe has CONSENSUS?

Also, there have BEEN NO "normal debates" (as your quote). This has been carefully CLOSED operation from the start. Folks with more than adequate credentials have been BLACKBALLED from publishing and incredible amounts of JUNK get approved. This was a run as a propaganda operation, not a science.

 

[abu afak]

Consensus only works on ONE question at time. I count at least a dozen KEY CRITICAL questions to understand the scope and breadth of Climate Change. Which QUESTION do you believe has CONSENSUS?

Also, there have BEEN NO "normal debates" (as your quote). This has been carefully CLOSED operation from the start. Folks with more than adequate credentials have been BLACKBALLED from publishing and incredible amounts of JUNK get approved. This was a run as a propaganda operation, not a science.

There is BOTH a warming consensus AND and an AGW one.

You got Creamed on the Miltary/Obama and Warming as well.
Gameover #6278

 

[flacaltenn]

Consensus only works on ONE question at time. I count at least a dozen KEY CRITICAL questions to understand the scope and breadth of Climate Change. Which QUESTION do you believe has CONSENSUS?

Also, there have BEEN NO "normal debates" (as your quote). This has been carefully CLOSED operation from the start. Folks with more than adequate credentials have been BLACKBALLED from publishing and incredible amounts of JUNK get approved. This was a run as a propaganda operation, not a science.

There is BOTH a warming consensus AND and an AGW one.

Yoiu got Creamed on the Miltary/Obama and Warming as well.
Gameover #6278

Wow --- who made you the Head Referee? What is the QUESTION your consensus is based on? If you can't quote it --- you're doing the worst imitation of "appealing to authority" without a helmet on.... No scientific consensus is lacking a specific interrogatory carefully worded.

 

[flacaltenn]

abu afak How about we both back off and discuss HOW MANY QUESTIONS on climate change need a consensus. I've dumped a few clues on what TYPES of questions ALL need "consensus" on.

There are 60 or 70 OTHER questions in the best survey of Climate Scientists from Bray and von Storch. They actually ASKED MANY questions of vetted Climate Scientists in 3 polls taken over about 12 years. It's the best "polling" of the community available because it was done BY climate scientists --- FOR Climate Scientists.

If you really want to understand consensus --- I'll see if the "free link" is still available to the polls and pass it to you. NOTE THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS BEING ASKED !!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

Sunsettommy --- Have you reviewed these Bray and von Storch surveys? These are key to understanding "the consensus" assertion..

 

[Sunsettommy]

Sunsettommy --- Have you reviewed these Bray and von Storch surveys? These are key to understanding "the consensus" assertion..

I seen many consensus assertions over the years, that doesn't support reproducible science research and can derail progress in research when erroneous consensus creates a false trail into the wasteland.

It can take just ONE person to destroy a consensus, which actually happened too many times, recall the Stomach "Ulcer" problem that was for many decades erroneously diagnosed to stress or foods. A man who knew better had to infect himself to prove it was BACTERIA that caused those ulcers, he wiped them out with a simple anti-biotic.

I don't argue over consensus much anymore because the people who insist on pushing it are proven science illiterates and profoundly ignorant on what viable science research consist of.

 

[Crick]

And people who insist that it means nothing seem to be hiding from themselves that everything we believe natural science KNOWS are simply the conclusions for which a consensus among scientists exists.

 

[westwall]

And people who insist that it means nothing seem to be hiding from themselves that everything we believe natural science KNOWS are simply the conclusions for which a consensus among scientists exists.

Which is a laughable assertion. The natural sciences is about what can be OBSERVED. It has no relationship to the consensus fantasy land that you pseudo scientists inhabit.

 

[flacaltenn]

And people who insist that it means nothing seem to be hiding from themselves that everything we believe natural science KNOWS are simply the conclusions for which a consensus among scientists exists.

Your Consensus is shown in the Bray and von Storch polls above. There is not ONE question that answers the question of what climate scientists think about Climate Change. In fact, there's DOZENS of questions that need to be asked. Anyone relying on this mythical consensus doesn't appreciate how many DIFFERENT questions need to be asked to GET to any kind of consensus on CC.

To get back to the topic here --- Here is the NON consensus of climate scientists on the question of how reliably you can predict Sea Level Rise 50 years out. About 55% of them have a neutral or negative opinion on that ability.

STOP IT with this juvenile reliance on a SINGLE NUMBER for "a consensus" on a very BROAD scientific issue.

 

[flacaltenn]

I know you have a basic problem reading graphs CrickHam so get someone to verify the ANSWER IS on 50 yr sea level rise predictions -- indeed only 45% have a POSITIVE view on the ability to do that...

 

[Crick]

And people who insist that it means nothing seem to be hiding from themselves that everything we believe natural science KNOWS are simply the conclusions for which a consensus among scientists exists.

Your Consensus is shown in the Bray and von Storch polls above. There is not ONE question that answers the question of what climate scientists think about Climate Change. In fact, there's DOZENS of questions that need to be asked. Anyone relying on this mythical consensus doesn't appreciate how many DIFFERENT questions need to be asked to GET to any kind of consensus on CC.

To get back to the topic here --- Here is the NON consensus of climate scientists on the question of how reliably you can predict Sea Level Rise 50 years out. About 55% of them have a neutral or negative opinion on that ability.

STOP IT with this juvenile reliance on a SINGLE NUMBER for "a consensus" on a very BROAD scientific issue.

I find it interesting that you close down threads that aren't discussing their OP's topic, then take up completely disparate topics on your own.

Do you recall how for over a year, the denier side of any discussion on the consensus evoked the now classic Doran and Zimmerman study whose results used the opinions of 76 of 79 degreed, publishing climate scientists? Apparently that has been replaced by Storch and Bray. As I think we both know, there have been dozens of studies, by dozens of different people.

Verheggen et al, John Cook, James Powell, Lefsrud and Meyer, Farnsworth and Lichter, Anderegg, Prall, Harold and Schneider, Doran and Zimmerman, Harris Interactive, Naomi Oreskes and, of course Bray and von Storch. And, of course, all found precisely what I and others have been stating here for years: there exists a very strong consensus among climate scientists that the world is getting warmer and that human CO2 emissions are the primary cause.

Telling me I should ignore this single number... you should be embarrassed. How about addressing the idea that it is the consensuses among scientists which define what we hold to be its current understanding of the universe. There are no proofs in the natural sciences.

 

[Crick]

And responses? Uh... no.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Consensus is a moonbat term.

It has no part in the scientific method and has whatsoever to do with science. It's a Cult word used by lunatics who point to the top story on the Weather Channel as "proof" of their Diety, the CO2 molecule, in action.

That there appear to be many of you is totally irrelevant. You're not scientists and the lab treats you like Dracula chugging garlic soda.

 

[Meister]

This has been going on in many places in the nation for decades.
Now one of the biggest victims of AGW showing evidence of what is to come.
For all you warming deniers: you Clowns who say "it's colder than normal in Chicago today, so it can't be warming".
Would you write a 30 year mortgage on a Miami waterfront house?

Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market
Properties on the coast now trade at Discounts as flood waters and ‘king tides’ damp enthusiasm for oceanfront living
By Laura Kusisto and Arian Campo-Flores
Wall Street Journal - April 20, 2018
Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market

MIAMI—Concerns over rising sea levels and floods are beginning to reshape one of the country’s largest housing markets, with properties closer to sea level now trading at discounts to those at higher elevations.

Research published Friday in the journal of Environmental Research Letters shows that single-family homes in Miami-Dade County are rising in value more slowly near sea level than at higher elevations, as buyers weigh the possibilities of more-frequent minor flooding in the short term and the challenge of reselling...
[....]​

balance by subscription, but you get the picture.
`

When the banks stop lending money for mortgages on homes in Florida is when I will take notice on this stupid thread.

 

[abu afak]

[
When the banks stop lending money for mortgages on homes in Florida is when I will take notice on this stupid thread.

You ******* Moron.
It's already affecting Real House Values, and what people will actually pay.
That's not voodoo.
It's regular and increasing Tidal Flooding of Roads and Living Rooms.

ie, another

The risk of sea level rise is already chipping away at South Florida ...
Florida Trend-Apr 30, 2018
The risk of sea level rise is already chipping away at South Florida home values ...
Read more at the South Florida Sun-Sentinel and the Miami Herald. ...
Redlining' — banks' refusal to make mortgage loans in certain areas ...​

Bye Clown.
`

 

[abu afak]

We all have to rise to combat the rising tides
BY JOHN ENGLANDER
May 10, 2018 - Miami Herald
We all have to rise to combat the rising tides

As an expert on sea-level rise, I am very aware of the growing concern about increased flooding in South Florida. First, it’s important to establish some facts and dispel some myths:

▪ Sea level has been relatively stable for about 5,000 years, leading us to believe that the coastline would never change. But the geologic record shows that sea level moves up and down hundreds of feet depending on the planet’s temperature.

▪ We have entered a new era. The oceans have gotten so warm that ice will continue to melt, and the sea will rise for centuries. We have passed a tipping point.

▪ Melting icebergs and the polar icecap do not add to sea level as they are floating ice. Higher sea level will mostly come from melting ice sheets and glaciers on land, 98% of which are in Antarctica and Greenland.

▪ To slow sea-level rise, we must dramatically reduce emissions of greenhouse gases — particularly carbon dioxide — that trap heat in the atmosphere. Oceans absorb that heat. Warm water expands. It also melts a lot of the planet’s ice. We need to work vigorously to slow the warming.

▪ Rising sea level makes flooding from storms and rainfall worse. Also it worsens flooding from the extreme “king tides.”

▪ The Southeast Florida Regional Climate Change Compact’s latest projections are that sea level in our region could rise 2 to 3 feet by 2060 and 5 to 7 feet by the end of the century.

Although South Florida is often thought of as being particularly exposed, we are not alone. Tampa Bay, Jacksonville and the Panhandle are highly vulnerable, too. Looking farther, from Annapolis to San Francisco and from Boston to Bangladesh, flooding is breaking records. In fact, about 10,000 coastal communities are now exposed to increased flooding..
[.....]​

`

 

[Meister]

John Englander????? The John Englander? Yeah, he has no skin in the game.

 

[Crick]

This John Englander

Bio: John Englander - John Englander - Sea Level Rise Expert
John Englander is an oceanographer, consultant and leading expert on sea level rise. His broad marine science background coupled with explorations to Greenland and Antarctica allows him to see the big picture of sea level rise and its revolutionary impacts.

He brings the diverse points of view of an industry scientist, entrepreneur and CEO. For over thirty years, he has been a leader in the private and non-profit sectors, serving as CEO for The International SeaKeepers and The Cousteau Society.

John is Founder and President of the International Sea Level Institute, a new non-profit organization focused on explaining the latest science about long-term rising sea level. The institute’s focus is on adaptation to higher ocean levels, but also addresses the connection with various efforts at “sustainability” to slow the warming that may slow the rate of ocean rise. ...

He is a Research Fellow at the Institute of Marine Sciences – UC Santa Cruz; a Fellow of the Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology (IMarEST), a Fellow of the Explorers Club, and a member of several professional societies. Englander holds dual degrees in Geology and Economics.

Very distinctly has "some skin in the game"