Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[Papageorgio]

RvW was reversed because white extremist Christians want it reversed and they have a majority on the USSC that is sympathetic to letting states decide if they want to force full term gestation on women by banning a safe medical procedure based upon tyranny of the majority in control of a state.



Do you live in one of the states that make up the United States of America? Why does a state government have a right to
force full term gestation in a woman’s body by banning access to a safe medical procedure where she lives.






When I was told I am going to be a father I believed what made my wife’s belly bigger was a baby.

When my daughters told me they were expecting to have a baby I followed their lead and called it a baby.

I thought you said you agree what a woman does with her body is none of our business; but then you make it your business with the white religious right wanting to know what every woman who gets pregnant calls the living human organism beginning the earliest stages of life in her body.




No. It’s none of our business what goes on inside a woman’s body when we are not involved with them,





No pregnant woman is obligated to refer to a part of her body by sone standard you and the extremist religious right want set. If she wants to have a baby it’s a baby. If she does not want to have a baby it’s a terminated pregnancy or whatever she want’s to call it.


USSC can declare a state law unconstitutional when when it needlessly deprives a pregnant of her right to privacy when chiising to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.



No, She does no harm when she has an abortion to the public. She was born with the privilege that is having autonomy over her body.



It can strike down laws that needlessly restrict individual’s human right.




What about them? You wrote this:

What a mess in your response, when you educate yourself on how to use the board let us know.

 

[Papageorgio]

exactly! That’s my point.

Ok good, point about what Saint Bitch?

 

[ThisIsMe]

thssm.23.09.14
#10,991


I’m not talking about these animals but it exists.

Abortion is seen by white extremists as part of the so-called “white genocide” plot, and in that sense, reproductive rights are a part of their “white extinction anxiety.”​

​

The horrific revelations are a reminder that white supremacy, male supremacy and violent extremism go hand in hand. Minorities and white women are targets of an ideology that both seeks to reduce nonwhite populations and to increase white ones. For this and other white supremacist extremist groups, the mass murder of minorities and the mass rape of white women are twin goals oriented toward maintaining a white majority nation.​

Opposition to abortion as a medical procedure is not any kind of argument against a woman having the right to reasonable access to abortion being regulated for safety of the patient by having state licensed medical professionals do it.

This is morally based opposition to abortion:

bckvgn.22.05.02 #1 Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!


That is not a facts based argument for a legal reason to deprive a pregnant woman of her liberty to deal with the life within her body as she see fitting for her life.

That is a morally based absolute judgement on the moral character of a woman who had unprotected sex as an effort to correct unprotected sexual behavior.

nf.23.09.14
#10,994

First off, you should post links to articles you cite…you posting a paragraph of words has no relevance unless we can see where you’re getting them from..you could just be making it all up.

As to the article, it seems our discussion appears to be about to merge into a completely different topic, but I’ll address it

Racism exists in various aspects, but it’s disingenuous to say that

Minorities and white women are targets of an ideology that both seeks to reduce nonwhite populations and to increase white ones.​

There is no evidence anywhere that any ideology (I assume you are referring to the Republican Party) is trying to reduce the minority population. That is just more of the democrat party talking points that they spew on their shock jock radio shows every day. I know, I listen to the as well.

What mass murder of minorities? What mass rape of white women?? Please…cite your sources…

I listen to both right wing and left wing talk radio and I can assure you, I’ve never heard any of those on the right say anything even remotely close to what you are claiming. Most of the time, they are talking about the cotus, freedom, and how bad Biden is.

You know what I hear from the other side? Hate…pure hate, for 6 hours a day it’s nothing but. “White, Christian, conservatives are all racists, woman hating, misogynist, homophobes”. They all link anyone on the right with “maga” and say that they should be crushed and demoralized!

I’m sorry, but I’ve heard NOTHING from right wing radio that would come close to the hate and anger I hear from the progressives.

Opposition to abortion as a medical procedure is not any kind of argument against a woman having the right to reasonable access to abortion being regulated for safety of the patient by having state licensed medical professionals do it.

Who are you talking to to get these arguments? They aren’t from me. You seem to keep wanting to attribute arguments to me that I’ve never made. Ive never argued that opposition to abortion is because it’s a medical procedure. My argument has always been about the authority of the federal government vs the states.

Again, you seem to keep making an argument based on the life of the mother, to which I’ve already stated, many times, that nobody is forcing a woman to give birth if it could endanger her life.

 

[Papageorgio]

First off, you should post links to articles you cite…you posting a paragraph of words has no relevance unless we can see where you’re getting them from..you could just be making it all up.

As to the article, it seems our discussion appears to be about to merge into a completely different topic, but I’ll address it

Racism exists in various aspects, but it’s disingenuous to say that


There is no evidence anywhere that any ideology (I assume you are referring to the Republican Party) is trying to reduce the minority population. That is just more of the democrat party talking points that they spew on their shock jock radio shows every day. I know, I listen to the as well.

What mass murder of minorities? What mass rape of white women?? Please…cite your sources…

I listen to both right wing and left wing talk radio and I can assure you, I’ve never heard any of those on the right say anything even remotely close to what you are claiming. Most of the time, they are talking about the cotus, freedom, and how bad Biden is.

You know what I hear from the other side? Hate…pure hate, for 6 hours a day it’s nothing but. “White, Christian, conservatives are all racists, woman hating, misogynist, homophobes”. They all link anyone on the right with “maga” and say that they should be crushed and demoralized!

I’m sorry, but I’ve heard NOTHING from right wing radio that would come close to the hate and anger I hear from the progressives.



Who are you talking to to get these arguments? They aren’t from me. You seem to keep wanting to attribute arguments to me that I’ve never made. Ive never argued that opposition to abortion is because it’s a medical procedure. My argument has always been about the authority of the federal government vs the states.

Again, you seem to keep making an argument based on the life of the mother, to which I’ve already stated, many times, that nobody is forcing a woman to give birth if it could endanger her life.

37% of abortions are black women, 34% are Hispanic, 22% are white and 8% other.

Im trying to figure out why not allowing abortions are racist, because no abortions mean more blacks live.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Your argument has no validity because the Federal Government under RvW did not force a state to perform or sanction abortions. States do not perform abortions.

Your argument does not address the woman’s right according to her conscience to deny the use of her body by a fetus to sustain its development until ready for separation at birth.

The Constitution does not say she cannot.

The Constitution guarantees freedom of conscience as long as one’s conscience does not accept behavior that violates another’s rights and liberties.

So the effect of your state’s rights incomplete argument is to give your consent to the religious extremists obsession with banning abortion not for the sake of an argument, but for the sake of their conscience that was driven into their minds by a religious institution. It is not a rational argument.

Your argument has no validity because the Federal Government under RvW did not force a state to perform or sanction abortions. States do not perform abortions.

Ok, I think we can both agree that “states” don’t perform abortions, I think you know that is not what I was referring to. I was referring to the fact that states are forced to allow people to have abortions if the choose, for any reason.

Your argument does not address the woman’s right according to her conscience to deny the use of her body by a fetus to sustain its development until ready for separation at birth.

I like how you phrased that, “the use of her body by a fetus to sustain its development…”. As if the fetus had a choice in the matter.

My argument, however, does address that. You see, I would never presume to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. If she wants to get an abortion, or 20 abortions, feel free. Just don’t ask the federal government to exceed their authority and force states to allow it. That’s not their role.

So the effect of your state’s rights incomplete argument is to give your consent to the religious extremists obsession with banning abortion not for the sake of an argument, but for the sake of their conscience that was driven into their minds by a religious institution. It is not a rational argument.

Oh my gosh….no..no it’s not. I’ll say it again, for like the 15th time now. Religion should not have any role in the abortion debate. If someone uses that as an argument, they are entitled to their opinion, but it is not valid for making a legal decision on the subject.

 

[ThisIsMe]

thssm.23.09.14
#10,993


Every pregnancy can cause premature death and there is no advance warning. The way to be certain that a pregnancy cannot kill you over the next nine months is to terminate it early as possible. When a woman wants to have a baby she consents to take the risk. That is a choice only a woman can make because it is her life at stake.

The state cannot guarantee with certainty that pregnancy to full term won’t kill a woman so the Fourteen Amendment has to apply to a woman who becomes pregnant by mistake or birth control failure.

ppgrg.23.08.14
#10,996



Can you tell me Saint Thisisme and Saint Papageorgio why a woman’s fundamental right to protect herself from premature death during childbirth has to be deeply rooted in U.S. history and tradition in a nation that did not give its female citizens permission to have a say on all abortion laws passed during the first hundred years?

The only answer is to mindlessly surrender to absurdity.

To argue at the USSC level that. . . . ,

“abortion is not a fundamental right because at the time of the writing of the Fourteenth Amendment many states had bans on abortion already in place and thus did not consider abortion a fundamental right”

….. is as male dominant and regressive an application of judicial power over the formerly oppressed gender that has the body parts that can generate future generations as there ever can be.

A woman’s privacy when in a condition of pregnancy has be protected from invasion by white Republican religious extremists who are the only large group of citizens who demand that she loses her right to privacy when she engages in unprotected sex. It’s none of their fucking business and I thought you two would agree.

nf.23.09.14 #10,997

Every pregnancy can cause premature death and there is no advance warning. The way to be certain that a pregnancy cannot kill you over the next nine months is to terminate it early as possible. When a woman wants to have a baby she consents to take the risk. That is a choice only a woman can make because it is her life at stake.

ok, then get an abortion…you may have to drive a ways to get one, I think California has a find set up to assist women with getting abortions. They will basically pay for your flight and the procedure, I think.

 

[ThisIsMe]

37% of abortions are black women, 34% are Hispanic, 22% are white and 8% other.

Im trying to figure out why not allowing abortions are racist, because no abortions mean more blacks live.

If those statistics are right, then mathematically, you are correct.

 

[Papageorgio]

If those statistics are right, then mathematically, you are correct.

I know they are correct and she is just making stuff up to appeal to emotion and n’t fact.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ppgrg.23.08.14
#11,002

Ok good, point about what Saint Bitch?

What about it? It’s not derogatory at all on my part. You’ve chosen to be a State’s Rights Saint for the unborn,

Thisisme (below) is a saint in the Saving Baby Fetus community because he sympathizes with saintly states like Texas who pass laws to stop unborn never viable babies from being killed by an unsaintly expectant mother. I think you agree with his sentiments on all the Saintly States in the entire Confederacy of Saving Baby Fetus States like Texas. It’s how I read you pro-fetus state’s rights leaning posts.

ok, then get an abortion…you may have to drive a ways to get one,

Why can’t a woman get an abortion closer to where she lives if an abortion is nobody’s business but hers as you say?


thssm.23.09.14
#11,005

Ok, I think we can both agree that “states” don’t perform abortions, I think you know that is not what I was referring to. I was referring to the fact that states are forced to allow people to have abortions if the choose, for any reason.

Why does a woman who wants to
end gestation in her body at ten weeks have to get permission from a bunch of white Christian extremist state legislators if she wants to live in let’s say Alabama Texas or Florida and pursue life liberty and happiness there?

nf.23.09.15
#11,009

 

[NotfooledbyW]

thssm.23.08.14
#11,005

Religion should not have any role in the abortion debate.

If religion played no role in the politics of trying to save every baby fetus in every unwanted pregnancy in America, a woman’s right to an abortion would have been upheld easily as consistent with English Common Law on abortion that was in place when the Constitution was written.

You could read nf.23.06.16 #9,245 along with the following excellent history if you are interested in how the presence and political might of white evangelical Christianity as a powerful voting block has driven a form of theocratic demand for absolute political uniformity of Republicans lawmakers in favor of passing anti-abortion laws for the entire nation according to God’s will that we be a Christian Nation once again as we were at the beginning.

Restricting abortion actually began with doctors​

​

​

In the early days of the country, laws reflected British common law, determined by quickening.​

Ending pregnancy after quickening was a misdemeanor.​

​

Abortions were accessible and largely without stigma at this time.​

​

mid 1800s, some doctors, sought to separate themselves from the healers and midwives who were also performing abortions.​

​

some in the profession pushed states to pass anti-abortion laws​

​

These physicians, men backed by the American Medical Association, argued that they had more knowledge on embryos and that the heightened medical knowledge was necessary to determine when life began.​

​

THE claim of advanced knowledge was mostly used as a way to take away women's bodily autonomy.​

​

Now, it was a doctor who could interpret their medical condition, rather than just relying on whether the pregnant individual could feel the fetus move.​

​

By the early 1900s, every state had made abortion illegal, though there were exceptions made if the life of the pregnant person was at risk.​

​

In these decades leading up to Roe, abortion was for the most part illegal. Because of that, seeking abortions also became extremely dangerous, particularly for low-income pregnant people and people of color, especially Black women.​

​

In 1930, abortion was listed as the official cause of death for almost 2,700 women in the United States, though there were likely many more deaths that did not get recorded.​

​

By the middle of the 1960s, some states like Colorado liberalized their abortion laws, and anti-abortion movements started to crop up on the state level. But it was still not nationally talked about, or even politicized, the way it started to become in the 1970s.​

​

"All of a sudden, it moves from a movement in the states that are liberalizing to a nationwide movement,"​

​

at this point, the anti-abortion movement strategically cast itself as a "rights campaign" and started to compare abortion to the Holocaust and the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision, which ruled that Black people in the U.S. did not have constitutional rights.​

​

"With Roe, the movement is able to grasp on to a federal oppressor, as an entity that is... allowing genocide to be enacted," Holland said.​

​

And then, the Republican Party gets involved​

​

By the mid-1970s, the anti-abortion movement becomes far more partisan.​

​

In 1976, the Republican Party added an anti-abortion stance in their party platform. And that's when they start to enlist more evangelicals into the anti-abortion movement, which was critical for the movement's expansion.​

​

From the late 1990s into the early 2000s, socially conservative leaders like James Dobson start to become more critical of the Republican Party. For example, they didn't want Reagan to nominate Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court because she wasn't in line with the movement, but Reagan nominated her anyway.​

​

"In the late 90s, you have all these big socially conservative leaders who say: no more... We don't agree in a big tent party," Holland said​

​

"You really see the power of the anti-abortion movement to not only be a part of a party, but to really remake a party. And demand political uniformity on this issue," she said.​

​

Through the end of the 20th century and the decades since, there's been a concerted effort from Republicans to prioritize abortion restrictions in legislation and judicial appointees. Conservative organizations such as the Federalist Society have heavily influenced who leaders like former President Trump nominate to the courts. Trump pledged to select nominees off a list provided by the group, which has in part led to the conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court today.​

Former President Donald Trump galvizined support among conservative evangelicals by pledging to appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn Roe v. Wade, even though he had previously supported abortion rights.​

OLIVIER DOULIERY/AFP via Getty Images​

Hope this helps

nf.23.09.15
#11,010

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[Papageorgio]

ppgrg.23.08.14
#11,002

What about it? It’s not derogatory at all on my part. You’ve chosen to be a State’s Rights Saint for the unborn,

You are using it as a pejorative and now you are lying and being more dishonest, Saint Bitch.

I am not a states rights activist but since your Congress doesn’t care about women, the states hold the power and Congress refuses to address it and neither has Biden, all they do is talk, for 50 plus years they have talked and have done absolutely nothing to address the issue, these court cases have been brewing for years and it was going to happen if it was presented right and Dobbs did just so.

When the 14th Amendment, which is the basis for the abortionists claiming it was an absolute right, abortion was outlawed in several states, Therefore states, Congress and the President did not believe abortion was a right. You don’t like it but your own party screwed you over and now you have to blame others, those are facts. If you don’t like the law, you need to push for change.

I never pushed for Roe v Wade to be overturned and because lazy people such as yourself thought you were safe didn’t do a damn thing and now you are outraged and mad, too bad so sad, you stupid moron, you weren’t fooled by Bush but you were sure a sucker for the Democrats BS and you still haven’t learned a damn thing, I don’t feel sorry for you one bit You and your lazy party did this to America and now you assholes still do nothing but use it to get votes.

Not buying your excuses, you need to take responsibility and push Congress to change the laws or shut up, instead of playing victim.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I’m

You are using it as a pejorative

I be the writer. Meaning and intent be mind

I accept that frustration and irritability has begun to overcome your mind,

 

[NotfooledbyW]

am not a states rights activist

I have not said you are.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ppgrg.23.09.15
#11,011

but since your Congress doesn’t care about women, the states hold the power and Congress refuses to address it and neither has Biden, all they do is talk, for 50 plus years they have talked and have done absolutely nothing to address the issue, these court cases have been brewing for years and it was going to happen if it was presented right and Dobbs did just so.

Your schtick has become outdated as a result of Dobbs. As an argument for defending lack of conviction on a critical issue for live breathing wholesome freedom loving women it never had a lot of significance anyway, but now it has absolutely none.

Direct voting for reproductive rights is underway hopefully coming to Florida next year. Victories in Wisconsin Ohio Michigan and Kansas have exposed the glass jaw of Trump’s largest voting bloc of white evangelical anti-choice Christian’s (see nf.23.09.15 #11,010 ) This sect of Christianity’s most irrational theists have been the activating political force behind the overthrow of a very well respected and established RvW decision and precedent.

Republicanisms Jesus People are panicky and going into the End of Times Armageddon hallucinations of Book of Revelations fame. A wrathful God will be taking over the Saving Baby Fetus’s Cult to punish the wicked as we listen to Dr Dobson’s American Family Radio station that interestingly enough gives Jenna Ellis some Bible Thumping airtime every morning weekdays from seven to eight. Replays start at 8:00 Am

AFR.net - Talk Player

AFR Talk audio player

afr.net

nf.23.09.15 #11,014

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ppgrg.23.09.15
#11,011

When the 14th Amendment, which is the basis for the abortionists claiming it was an absolute right, abortion was outlawed in several states,

The six Catholics on the USSC should have gone further back to the historic context when the Constitution was written, as originalist are supposed to do.

see also nf.23.06.07 #9,108

{ nfbw #9,106 to mvngnr #81 & #5,859 } Our first four presidents did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. But historically based reality of Common Law in Colonial America regarding the accepted “legality” of abortion was that our founders lived when abortion was legal up to signs of fetal movement referred to as quickening. After quickening it was treated as a misdemeanor chmngnr

nf.23.09.15 #11,015

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I never pushed for Roe v Wade to be overturned

Well then you should push to have Dobbs overturned because it was judicial irrationality at it’s very extreme.

 

[Papageorgio]

I’m

I be the writer. Meaning and intent be mind

I accept that frustration and irritability has begun to overcome your mind,

You can pretend all you want, you continue with your tone, I will continue mine.

 

[Papageorgio]

I have not said you are.

This is what you ousted post 11009, “You’ve chosen to be a State’s Rights Saint for the unborn,“ how is one to interpret what you wrote? You are still playing games and it is stupid.

 

[Papageorgio]

ppgrg.23.09.15
#11,011

Your schtick has become outdated as a result of Dobbs. As an argument for defending lack of conviction on a critical issue for live breathing wholesome freedom loving women it never had a lot of significance anyway, but now it has absolutely none.

Direct voting for reproductive rights is underway hopefully coming to Florida next year. Victories in Wisconsin Ohio Michigan and Kansas have exposed the glass jaw of Trump’s largest voting bloc of white evangelical anti-choice Christian’s (see nf.23.09.15 #11,010 ) This sect of Christianity’s most irrational theists have been the activating political force behind the overthrow of a very well respected and established RvW decision and precedent.

Republicanisms Jesus People are panicky and going into the End of Times Armageddon hallucinations of Book of Revelations fame. A wrathful God will be taking over the Saving Baby Fetus’s Cult to punish the wicked as we listen to Dr Dobson’s American Family Radio station that interestingly enough gives Jenna Ellis some Bible Thumping airtime every morning weekdays from seven to eight. Replays start at 8:00 Am

AFR.net - Talk Player

AFR Talk audio player

afr.net

nf.23.09.15 #11,014

The Dobbs v Jackson decision is logical when applying it the context of when the 14th Amendment, because when it was ratified it should have made abortion legal in all states and it did not.

The only issue is you don’t like the outcome of your party’s choice of handling the abortion issue.

Congress could clear this up in quick time if they wanted to but they choose not to do a damn thing because Roe v Wade garnered them far more votes than a law allowing abortion, so states have the obligation to write laws on it. Your frustration should be Congress and lack of taking control of issues.

You could channel your blame to where it truly is or you can just rant about it being Christians, it gets you nothing but it is at the very least funny to watch.

 

[Papageorgio]

ppgrg.23.09.15
#11,011


The six Catholics on the USSC should have gone further back to the historic context when the Constitution was written, as originalist are supposed to do.

see also nf.23.06.07 #9,108



nf.23.09.15 #11,015

Catholics, 60% approve of abortion, Protestants approval is 27%, so another area you are wrong but we all know you run on emotions and not facts.