Ron DeSantis 'Will Destroy Our Democracy,' Says Fascism Expert

[Cellblock2429]

The GOP doesnt agree with democracy. They proved that when they tried to overturn a fair election.
They will cheer Desantis as he locks up librarians and journalists and publishers.

/-----/ You understand neither the GOP, democracy, our Republic, or liberals who actually do censor anyone who disagrees with them.

 

[Doug1943]

The Merriam-Webster online dictionary defines fascism as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."

That sounds like the democrats

Or, the classic pot calling the kettle black

This is a poor definition. It does not distinguish 'fascism' from previous authoritarian/nationalist movements.

Traditionally, one of the Right/Left differences, beginning at the end of the 18th Century, was nationalism vs internationalism. Another one was respect for traditional, hierarchical institutions -- 'Throne and Altar', plus the Army -- vs the desire to rearrange the political (and later, the social/economic) structure of society to be more egalitarian.

For roughly the first half of the 19th Century, the 'Left' was a 'bourgeois' Left -- the rising manufacturing/trading class counterposed to the old land-owning aristocracy. But as economic growth turned peasants into industrial workers, the 'Left' became a socialist Left ... and by the beginning of the 20th Century, was having a lot of success, in Europe at least.

The 'far Right' learned something from that success. And when the Bolsheviks overthrew the bourgeois-democratic Russian government and instituted the first socialist state, they learned something from that as well: the old model of a mass electoral party was outmoded, as well as the old Right program of veneration of the traditional social hierarchy.

The European 'far Right' became revolutionaries: they aped the Socialists' social program, and the Communists' organizational structure (a hard core 'combat party' of professional revolutionaries, rather than a mass-based electoral party).

Mussolini had been the editor of the Italian Socialist Party's newspaper. Hitler named his party the 'National Socialist German Workers Party'.

For political clarity, it's best to use the word 'fascism' for movements like this, not as a catch-all for any authoritarian nationalist movement. (After all, if authoritarian nationalist movements are 'fascist', then Fidel Castro and Mao Tse-Tung were fascists.)

Is there any possibility for a fascist movement, in this sense, in the US? Of course there is. The Republican Party has had a deep contradiction, for the last few decades, between its base -- increasingly, the bottom 2/3 of whites -- and its actual program and leadership, which has always been pro-business and upper-middle class.

Plus, the many of the ideologists of conservatism steal the clothes of the Libertarians when it comes to economics. They don't go quite so far as the genuine Libertarians and propose to auction off the National Parks, but they really don't like such welfare state measures as the US has, like Social Security and Workmen's Compensation and Medicare. But the Republican base would be horrified if their leaders actually moved to dismantle these programs.

So there is the objective possibility, as the Left's program to dissolve the foundations of America proceeds, for the growth of a hard-core, real authoritarian movement on the Right, blaming the usual ethnic scapegoats for our problems, evincing a leftish social program, and systematically forming quasi-military units.

A big military defeat abroad -- increasingly likely as our neo-con/neo-liberals try to maintain us as world hegemon -- combined with a big economic crash, might precipitate something like that.

In 1928, the Nazis got less than 3% of the popular vote in national elections. Five years later, they got 38%. Events can change mass consciousness quickly and dramatically.

At the moment, outright fascists are very unpopular on the Right, despite what liberals would like to , or pretend to, believe, just as outright communists are a tiny minority on the Left, despite what many conservatives seem to think. (For one thing, evangelical Christianity is still a major force on the Right, and most of these people are 'Christian Zionists', running straight into the anti-Semitism of the genuine fascists.)

But it could happen. (Also possible, but much less likely, would be the growth of a mass authoritarian/communist movement on the Left. By 'communist' I mean the real thing, not the pitiful scraggly anarchist mobs of spoiled brats we see now.)

So patriots must organize in anticipation of serious social disorder in our future, but at the same time be firm in our committment to the Rule of Law, with all the precious conquests of civilization that have gone along with it, such Free Speech, Equal Rights, the willingness to settle differences, where possible, through discussion and, if necessary, compromise. These are still valid principles even if our opponents on the Left are abandoning them.

 

[Skylar]

Sounds like you’re reading some propagandized version of the story from Vox or Slate. Provide a link.

What part are you denying actually occurred? The new board that DeSantis just seated? The Evangelical Ministry now having a seat at the table overseeing Disney's infastructure? The powers of this new board to punish Disney if they say or do anything that DeSantis or that Evangelical Church doesn't like?

 

[Lisa558]

The FBI ordered no one to do anything. They made requests. Requests that these companies frequently rejected.

Compare that with DeSantis punishing Disney for criticizing him, and placing Disney under a board of his choosing, including the head of an Evangelical Christian Ministry.

Now, if Disney says anything that DeSantis doesn't like, or that offends that Evangelical Church........Disney can be punished. Construction projects can be cancelled. Money can be borrowed that Disney is responsible for repaying. Garbage services can be cut. Vital infrastructure can be denied. A new highway can be built through DisneyWorld.

If Disney releases a MOVIE that DeSantis doesn't like, or that offends that Evangelical Church.....Disney can be punished.

This is the most perfect expression of the conservative vision of 'free speech'. And conservative cheer at every new punishment, every new restriction, every new government appointed overseer to Disney's free speech

I asked for a link - not your brainwashed interpretation.

 

[Skylar]

I asked for a link - not your brainwashed interpretation.

And you'll have one. As soon as you get more specific in what you're denying.

Are you denying that DeSantis seated this new board, for example? Or is it the power that the board has that you deny?

 

[Lisa558]

Ask Ron.

DeSantis Repeals $1.2 Billion Tax Hike He Imposed During Last Year’s Disney Fight

The Florida governor rattled off a Trump-esque string of false and misleading statements – and even showed off his signature on the bill, just like the former president.

www.yahoo.com

1) Yahoo is liberal.

2) All this says is that by eliminating Disney’s special tax carve-out, it inadvertently affected other people and he repealed it. But his intention was correct: that Disney shouldn’t be awarded special privilege.

 

[martybegan]

Ron DeSantis 'Will Destroy Our Democracy,' Says Fascism Expert​

By Ewan Palmer On 2/27/23 at 8:27 AM EST



DeSantis is a scary scary man. He really does remind me of Mussolini in many ways. He hates opposing opinions.

DDS incoming!!!

 

[Lisa558]

And you'll have one. As soon as you get more specific in what you're denying.

Are you denying that DeSantis seated this new board, for example? Or is it the power that the board has that you deny?

I am not going to start denying things that YOU are claiming without something UNBIASED to read. Provide it.

 

[Papageorgio]

Ron DeSantis 'Will Destroy Our Democracy,' Says Fascism Expert​

By Ewan Palmer On 2/27/23 at 8:27 AM EST



DeSantis is a scary scary man. He really does remind me of Mussolini in many ways. He hates opposing opinions.

A liberal from Newsweek is going with the opinion of a liberal professor who works for MSNBC and is against a conservative front runner, imagine that! Thanks for the laughs.

 

[pknopp]

1) Yahoo is liberal.

2) All this says is that by eliminating Disney’s special tax carve-out, it inadvertently affected other people and he repealed it. But his intention was correct: that Disney shouldn’t be awarded special privilege.

But they are. It's all quite quasi socialist at that. A government created board to oversee a business so that business can continue to get special tax considerations. An ability to avoid taxes that will then have to be made up by the taxpayers.

 

[Lisa558]

This is a poor definition. It does not distinguish 'fascism' from previous authoritarian/nationalist movements.

Traditionally, one of the Right/Left differences, beginning at the end of the 18th Century, was nationalism vs internationalism. Another one was respect for traditional, hierarchical institutions -- 'Throne and Altar', plus the Army -- vs the desire to rearrange the political (and later, the social/economic) structure of society to be more egalitarian.

For roughly the first half of the 19th Century, the 'Left' was a 'bourgeois' Left -- the rising manufacturing/trading class counterposed to the old land-owning aristocracy. But as economic growth turned peasants into industrial workers, the 'Left' became a socialist Left ... and by the beginning of the 20th Century, was having a lot of success, in Europe at least.

The 'far Right' learned something from that success. And when the Bolsheviks overthrew the bourgeois-democratic Russian government and instituted the first socialist state, they learned something from that as well: the old model of a mass electoral party was outmoded, as well as the old Right program of veneration of the traditional social hierarchy.

The European 'far Right' became revolutionaries: they aped the Socialists' social program, and the Communists' organizational structure (a hard core 'combat party' of professional revolutionaries, rather than a mass-based electoral party).

Mussolini had been the editor of the Italian Socialist Party's newspaper. Hitler named his party the 'National Socialist German Workers Party'.

For political clarity, it's best to use the word 'fascism' for movements like this, not as a catch-all for any authoritarian nationalist movement. (After all, if authoritarian nationalist movements are 'fascist', then Fidel Castro and Mao Tse-Tung were fascists.)

Is there any possibility for a fascist movement, in this sense, in the US? Of course there is. The Republican Party has had a deep contradiction, for the last few decades, between its base -- increasingly, the bottom 2/3 of whites -- and its actual program and leadership, which has always been pro-business and upper-middle class.

Plus, the many of the ideologists of conservatism steal the clothes of the Libertarians when it comes to economics. They don't go quite so far as the genuine Libertarians and propose to auction off the National Parks, but they really don't like such welfare state measures as the US has, like Social Security and Workmen's Compensation and Medicare. But the Republican base would be horrified if their leaders actually moved to dismantle these programs.

So there is the objective possibility, as the Left's program to dissolve the foundations of America proceeds, for the growth of a hard-core, real authoritarian movement on the Right, blaming the usual ethnic scapegoats for our problems, evincing a leftish social program, and systematically forming quasi-military units.

A big military defeat abroad -- increasingly likely as our neo-con/neo-liberals try to maintain us as world hegemon -- combined with a big economic crash, might precipitate something like that.

In 1928, the Nazis got less than 3% of the popular vote in national elections. Five years later, they got 38%. Events can change mass consciousness quickly and dramatically.

At the moment, outright fascists are very unpopular on the Right, despite what liberals would like to , or pretend to, believe, just as outright communists are a tiny minority on the Left, despite what many conservatives seem to think. (For one thing, evangelical Christianity is still a major force on the Right, and most of these people are 'Christian Zionists', running straight into the anti-Semitism of the genuine fascists.)

But it could happen. (Also possible, but much less likely, would be the growth of a mass authoritarian/communist movement on the Left. By 'communist' I mean the real thing, not the pitiful scraggly anarchist mobs of spoiled brats we see now.)

So patriots must organize in anticipation of serious social disorder in our future, but at the same time be firm in our committment to the Rule of Law, with all the precious conquests of civilization that have gone along with it, such Free Speech, Equal Rights, the willingness to settle differences, where possible, through discussion and, if necessary, compromise. These are still valid principles even if our opponents on the Left are abandoning them.

Hi Doug,

Your posts are insightful, articulate, and reflect a great deal of intelligence, but I have a suggestion. Do you mind if I send it to you via DM?

 

[Lisa558]

A liberal from Newsweek is going with the opinion of a liberal professor who works for MSNBC and is against a conservative front runner, imagine that! Thanks for the laughs.

Yeah….sadly, thats their idea of “proof”.

 

[dblack]

Huh? The hypocrisy among Democrats is surreal.

Agreed. Wouldn't it be nice if Republicans were better than that?

 

[Skylar]

1) Yahoo is liberal.

2) All this says is that by eliminating Disney’s special tax carve-out, it inadvertently affected other people and he repealed it. But his intention was correct: that Disney shouldn’t be awarded special privilege.

Actually no. DeSantis used the power of the State to punish Disney by attempting to dissolve Reedy Creek for criticizing him.

With conservatives completely on board with using the power of the State to punish free speech critical of conservatives. Demonstrating the lie of consevative committment to free speech. It was never a conservative value.

And then DeSantis realized that if he dissolved Reedy Creek, that Florida would be on the hook for all the outstanding bonds. So he created a conservative board to oversee Disney's infrastructure..........and filled it with DeSantis loyalists. Including the head of an Evangelical Ministry.

Do you deny this happened? Are you even aware of what's going on?

 

[Lisa558]

Agreed. Wouldn't it be nice if Republicans were better than that?

They are.

 

[Foolardi]

The GOP doesnt agree with democracy. They proved that when they tried to overturn a fair election.
They will cheer Desantis as he locks up librarians and journalists and publishers.

I say 5 will getcha 10 that before too long we're gonna find
out as we did with the Fake - Russian Collusion - narrative
and Fake way the Hunter Laptop breaking news was applied.
Plus many other narratives like the Summer of Love and now
January 6th outting with over 41,oo hrs of video that The Election of
2020 WAS Rigged.Like the Most dastardly applied Covid 19
pandemic response.That was historic and will never go away into
the sunset.Like some Hero on a Horse.

 

[Skylar]

I am not going to start denying things that YOU are claiming without something UNBIASED to read. Provide it.

So you admit you have no idea what's going on and need me to educate you on the basics of what we're discussing.

Educate yourself.

 

[Skylar]

I say 5 will getcha 10 that before too long we're gonna find
out as we did with the Fake - Russian Collusion - narrative
and Fake way the Hunter Laptop breaking news was applied.
Plus many other narratives like the Summer of Love and now
January 6th outting with over 41,oo hrs of video that The Election of
2020 WAS Rigged.Like the Most dastardly applied Covid 19
pandemic response.That was historic and will never go away into
the sunset.Like some Hero on a Horse.

Laughing.....more incoherent word salad.

 

[dblack]

They are.

Then why, when your party is criticized, do you simply point out the "Democrats do it too"? That doesn't sound better. Sounds just as bad.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Ron DeSantis 'Will Destroy Our Democracy,' Says Fascism Expert​

By Ewan Palmer On 2/27/23 at 8:27 AM EST



DeSantis is a scary scary man. He really does remind me of Mussolini in many ways. He hates opposing opinions.

Freedom and truth are scary to libs.