Ron Paul: Crimea Secedes. So What?...

[Pogo]

Some background...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY[/ame]

(Nothing to see here Randbotitician. This is for the grownups.)

 

[gipper]

What the isolationists never seem to comprehend is that our friendships abroad contribute to our own security every bit as much as our military does.

No one is claiming America should not befriend other nations. Your post is foolishness.

What we non-interventionists comprehend is intervening in other nation's affairs is not effective and terribly dangerous.

One would think after decades of failed interventions by the power elite, ALL Americans would KNOW that intervening is NOT effective.

Nothing about regarding the Russian takeover of Crimea as more than "so what" implies "intervention".

Paul, and especially the OP, display an abject ignorance of international political dynamics by shrugging their shoulders and going "so what". That's the point here -- not intervention but ignorance.

That's why the mental midget OP tries to set up these "intervention" strawmen. It distracts from his own ignorance. Or at least he thinks it does. His strategy is to bury his head in the sand and pretend it isn't there, and then demonize everybody who's not staring down the same hole with him.

Wrong.

Interventionists abhor ALL interventions, no matter who causes them. Russia intervening in Ukraine is wrong. However we do not believe it right for American politicians, who are nothing more than liars and racketeers, should cause an international crisis leading to war, to stop Russian aggression.

The government overthrown in Ukraine, like all governments was corrupt, however it was democratically elected. I thought the USA political leadership believed in democracy...apparently not, when the elected government does not do their bidding.

Secondly, it has been reported that the overthrow of the elected government in Ukraine was instigated by Americans. No doubt this is true and further proof of that our government is out of control.

 

[Pogo]

No one is claiming America should not befriend other nations. Your post is foolishness.

What we non-interventionists comprehend is intervening in other nation's affairs is not effective and terribly dangerous.

One would think after decades of failed interventions by the power elite, ALL Americans would KNOW that intervening is NOT effective.

Nothing about regarding the Russian takeover of Crimea as more than "so what" implies "intervention".

Paul, and especially the OP, display an abject ignorance of international political dynamics by shrugging their shoulders and going "so what". That's the point here -- not intervention but ignorance.

That's why the mental midget OP tries to set up these "intervention" strawmen. It distracts from his own ignorance. Or at least he thinks it does. His strategy is to bury his head in the sand and pretend it isn't there, and then demonize everybody who's not staring down the same hole with him.

Wrong.

Interventionists abhor ALL interventions, no matter who causes them. Russia intervening in Ukraine is wrong. However we do not believe it right for American politicians, who are nothing more than liars and racketeers, should cause an international crisis leading to war, to stop Russian aggression.

The government overthrown in Ukraine, like all governments was corrupt, however it was democratically elected. I thought the USA political leadership believed in democracy...apparently not, when the elected government does not do their bidding.

Secondly, it has been reported that the overthrow of the elected government in Ukraine was instigated by Americans. No doubt this is true and further proof of that our government is out of control.

I see the point sailed completely over your head.

Spelling it out: the idea of "interventionists" is a strawman. The OP is so lazily ignorant that he's assuming, without any evidence at all, that some of us aware of the significance of the situation must be advocating "intervention". He's said that about me a dozen times, along with a bizarre obsession with my bank account.

But that's a non sequitur. Seeing significance in international political dynamics where an out-of-work ex-politician sees nothing does not equate to "intervention".

 

[Pogo]

The U.S. media’s take on the Ukraine crisis is that a “democratic revolution” ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, followed by a “legitimate” change of government. So, to mention the key role played neo-Nazi militias in the putsch or to note that Yanukovych was democratically elected – and then illegally deposed – gets you dismissed as a “Russian propagandist.”

But Ukraine’s neo-Nazis are not some urban legend. Their presence is real, as they swagger in their paramilitary garb through the streets of Kiev, displaying Nazi insignias, honoring SS collaborators from World War II, and hoisting racist banners, including the white-power symbol of the Confederate battle flag.

... This renewed disorder has complicated the storytelling of the major U.S. news media by challenging the sweetness-and-light narrative preferred by U.S. policymakers. The New York Times, the Washington Post and other leading news outlets have worked hard to airbrush the well-established fact that neo-Nazi militants spearheaded the coup on Feb. 22.

To dismiss that inconvenient fact, the major U.S. media has stressed that the extreme rightists made up a minority of the demonstrators, which – while true – is largely irrelevant since it was the paramilitary Right Sektor that provided the armed force that removed Yanukovych and then dominated the “transition” period by patrolling key government buildings. As a reward, far-right parties were given control of four ministries.

.... But reality has stopped playing much of a role in the U.S. news media’s Ukraine reporting as the U.S. press continues to adjust the reality to fit with the desired narrative. For instance, the New York Times, in its boilerplate account of the uprising, has removed the fact that more than a dozen police were among the 80 or so people killed. The Times now simply reports that police fired on and killed about 80 demonstrators.

Fitting with its bowdlerized account, the Times also ignores evidence that snipers who apparently fired on both police and protesters before the coup may have been working for the opposition, not Yanukovych’s government. An intercepted phone call by two European leaders discussed those suspicions as well as the curious decision of the post-coup government not to investigate who the snipers really were.

... If the New York Times and other leading U.S. outlets did their journalism in a professional way, the American people would have had a more nuanced understanding of what happened in Ukraine and why. Instead, the Times and the rest of the MSM resumed their roles as U.S. propagandists, much as they did in Iraq in 2002-03 with their usual preference for a simplistic “good-guy/bad-guy” dichotomy.

In the case of Ukraine, that happy dichotomy has been challenged again by the reemergence of those inconvenient neo-Nazis. --- Ukraine's Inconvenient Neo-Nazis

 

[paulitician]

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

That should be our Foreign Policy approach. We too often do things to other Nations that we certainly wouldn't want done to us. We intervene and attempt to impose our will all over the World. And we wouldn't accept other Nations doing that to us. We need to end our Imperialist arrogance. It's time for a truly humble & just Foreign Policy.

 

[Alex1983]

 

[Pogo]

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

That should be our Foreign Policy approach. We too often do things to other Nations that we certainly wouldn't want done to us. We intervene and attempt to impose our will all over the World. And we wouldn't accept other Nations doing that to us. We need to end our Imperialist arrogance. It's time for a truly humble & just Foreign Policy.

Interesting thought. What I do unto others is read what they actually post, rather than stuffing words into their mouth that they never said and then running away like a coward when they call me on it.

Works for me. But YMMV.

 

[paulitician]

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

That should be our Foreign Policy approach. We too often do things to other Nations that we certainly wouldn't want done to us. We intervene and attempt to impose our will all over the World. And we wouldn't accept other Nations doing that to us. We need to end our Imperialist arrogance. It's time for a truly humble & just Foreign Policy.

Interesting thought. What I do unto others is read what they actually post, rather than stuffing words into their mouth that they never said and then running away like a coward when they call me on it.

Works for me. But YMMV.

Oh Gawd, still butthurt? Come on kid, move on already. Your hissy fits are boring us now.

 

[Pogo]

 

[Alex1983]

???? ???????? ? ???????? | Naked Science

What the hell is going on on the surface of the Moon ?
Is that time to buy tuna-fish and hide in the cellars ?!

 

[paulitician]

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

More Americans need to start practicing that teaching. The things we're doing to other Nations these days, we would not tolerate being done to our Nation. Our Foreign Policy needs to reflect that simple, but profound teaching.

 

[Pogo]

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

More Americans need to start practicing that teaching. The things we're doing to other Nations these days, we would not tolerate being done to our Nation. Our Foreign Policy needs to reflect that simple, but profound teaching.

Fuck you and the high horse you rode in on. You're a fucking hypocrite, a liar and a coward.

 

[paulitician]

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

More Americans need to start practicing that teaching. The things we're doing to other Nations these days, we would not tolerate being done to our Nation. Our Foreign Policy needs to reflect that simple, but profound teaching.

Fuck you and the high horse you rode in on. You're a fucking hypocrite, a liar and a coward.

Man, this has to be the longest butthurt hissy fit ever recorded on USMB. So congrats, you're a record-holder now. Seriously though nutter, get over it. Now you're just stalking my thread and repeatedly coming back for more ugly Beat-Downs. You should have had enough by now. But hey, i'm willing to dish out more Beat-Downs if that's what you really want. Whatever. Enjoy.

 

[Pogo]

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

More Americans need to start practicing that teaching. The things we're doing to other Nations these days, we would not tolerate being done to our Nation. Our Foreign Policy needs to reflect that simple, but profound teaching.

Fuck you and the high horse you rode in on. You're a fucking hypocrite, a liar and a coward.

Man, this has to be the longest butthurt hissy fit ever recorded on USMB. So congrats, you're a record-holder now. Seriously though nutter, get over it. Now you're just stalking my thread and repeatedly coming back for more ugly Beat-Downs. You should have had enough by now. But hey, i'm willing to dish out more Beat-Downs if that's what you really want. Whatever. Enjoy.

Come up with those links yet?

No?

Didn't think so. Ergo lying asshole coward. Wear it proudly.

 

[paulitician]

Fuck you and the high horse you rode in on. You're a fucking hypocrite, a liar and a coward.

Man, this has to be the longest butthurt hissy fit ever recorded on USMB. So congrats, you're a record-holder now. Seriously though nutter, get over it. Now you're just stalking my thread and repeatedly coming back for more ugly Beat-Downs. You should have had enough by now. But hey, i'm willing to dish out more Beat-Downs if that's what you really want. Whatever. Enjoy.

Come up with those links yet?

No?

Didn't think so. Ergo lying asshole coward. Wear it proudly.

Ah, you're just a silly butthurt stalker. You're nothing new or original. Happens all the time on Message Boards. But I will come back from time to time to hand you a thorough Beat-Down. That's if i feel like it anyway. Cause in the whole scheme of things, you're the insignificant butthurt stalker-type. I've had much tougher & loonier stalkers here. You just don't rate all that high on the nutter-stalker chart. You're an amateur. But hey, stalk away. Have fun.

 

[Pogo]

Man, this has to be the longest butthurt hissy fit ever recorded on USMB. So congrats, you're a record-holder now. Seriously though nutter, get over it. Now you're just stalking my thread and repeatedly coming back for more ugly Beat-Downs. You should have had enough by now. But hey, i'm willing to dish out more Beat-Downs if that's what you really want. Whatever. Enjoy.

Come up with those links yet?

No?

Didn't think so. Ergo lying asshole coward. Wear it proudly.

Ah, you're just a silly butthurt stalker. You're nothing new or original. Happens all the time on Message Boards. But I will come back from time to time to hand you a thorough Beat-Down. That's if i feel like it anyway. Cause in the whole scheme of things, you're the insignificant butthurt stalker-type. I've had much tougher & loony stalkers here. You just don't rate all that high on the nutter-stalker chart. You're an amateur. But hey, stalk away. Have fun.

A beat-off is what you mean. Make up a bunch of shit and then can't back it up?
That's what I call a coward.

 

[Londoner]

Prior to the high tide of anti-communism, the majority of Conservatives were isolationists. They didn't think the American Taxpayer had the money to save the world, nor did they think Washington had the competence to effectively intervene in other regions without creating a host of unintended consequences.

Problem is, capitalism is so efficient/productive that it burns through local resources too quickly. This makes our economic system inherently expansionist, interventionist and militaristic. Meaning: when the oil runs out in Texas, you need the military infrastructure to take over Mideast oil fields. This is just one example where military intervention is required to secure resources, but the globe is filled with vital resources in dangerous places.

So as our economic system became global, by necessity, Conservatives slowly adopted the rhetoric of interventionism. As with all Superpower interventions, we described American intervention as part of a grand scheme to civilize the world (e.g., "spread freedom"). But make no mistake, men like Dick Chaney can't afford to worry about fluffy notions like saving the world. with freedom. He is playing a much different game; he is playing hardball geopolitics in order to secure necessary resources for our economy. The bullshit about "spreading freedom" is for the woman, children and talk radio republicans back on the homeland - all too weak to stare directly at how Washington turns the pig into the sausage. When is the GOP going to stop lying to their moronic base? When are they going to stop feeding these morons fluffy bromides about saving the world and just be fucking honest about what Superpowers must do to fulfill their economic needs?

 

[paulitician]

Come up with those links yet?

No?

Didn't think so. Ergo lying asshole coward. Wear it proudly.

Ah, you're just a silly butthurt stalker. You're nothing new or original. Happens all the time on Message Boards. But I will come back from time to time to hand you a thorough Beat-Down. That's if i feel like it anyway. Cause in the whole scheme of things, you're the insignificant butthurt stalker-type. I've had much tougher & loony stalkers here. You just don't rate all that high on the nutter-stalker chart. You're an amateur. But hey, stalk away. Have fun.

A beat-off is what you mean. Make up a bunch of shit and then can't back it up?
That's what I call a coward.

Aw, poor little stalker loon. Now you're hangin on my every word, huh? Like i said, i'll come back every now and then to hand you your thorough Beat-Down. But right now you're boring me. So hang tight. Maybe stalk another Poster in the meantime? See ya nutter.

 

[Pogo]

Prior to the high tide of anti-communism, the majority of Conservatives were isolationists. They didn't think the American Taxpayer had the money to save the world, nor did they think Washington had the competence to effectively intervene in other regions without creating a host of unintended consequences.

Problem is, capitalism is so efficient/productive that it burns through local resources too quickly. This makes our economic system inherently expansionist, interventionist and militaristic. Meaning: when the oil runs out in Texas, you need the military infrastructure to take over Mideast oil fields. This is just one example where military intervention is required to secure resources in dangerous places.

So as our economic system became global, by necessity, Conservatives slowly adopted the rhetoric of interventionism. And like all Superpower interventions, they described American intervention as part of a grand scheme to civilize the world (e.g., spread freedom). But make no mistake, men like Dick Chaney can't afford to worry about fluffy notions like saving the world. He is playing hardball geopolitics in order to secure necessary resources for our economy. The bullshit about "spreading freedom" is for the woman, children and talk radio republicans back on the homeland - all too weak to stare directly at how Washington turns the pig into the sausage.

Excellent points. They want it both ways. As if capitalism and its unwieldy growth can happen in a vacuum without affecting anything else.

 

[Redfish]

Prior to the high tide of anti-communism, the majority of Conservatives were isolationists. They didn't think the American Taxpayer had the money to save the world, nor did they think Washington had the competence to effectively intervene in other regions without creating a host of unintended consequences.

Problem is, capitalism is so efficient/productive that it burns through local resources too quickly. This makes our economic system inherently expansionist, interventionist and militaristic. Meaning: when the oil runs out in Texas, you need the military infrastructure to take over Mideast oil fields. This is just one example where military intervention is required to secure resources in dangerous places.

So as our economic system became global, by necessity, Conservatives slowly adopted the rhetoric of interventionism. And like all Superpower interventions, they described American intervention as part of a grand scheme to civilize the world (e.g., spread freedom). But make no mistake, men like Dick Chaney can't afford to worry about fluffy notions like saving the world. He is playing hardball geopolitics in order to secure necessary resources for our economy. The bullshit about "spreading freedom" is for the woman, children and talk radio republicans back on the homeland - all too weak to stare directly at how Washington turns the pig into the sausage.

Excellent points. They want it both ways. As if capitalism and its unwieldy growth can happen in a vacuum without affecting anything else.

capitalism and freedom made this country great for 200 years. Now liberalism and marxism are destroying it. and you silly shits can't see it.