Ron Paul: Crimea Secedes. So What?...

[Desperado]

The Drama Queen stuff is unnecessary. And it's not our business to make 'Putin go away.' What if other Nations spoke that way about our Leaders? How would we feel about that? When or if the Russian People want to dump Putin, so be it. But that's not our call. 'Regime Change' is arrogant Imperialist Bullshit. If other Nations pushed 'Regime Change' on us, we wouldn't stand for it. So why are we so arrogant?

We need to start minding our business. We have enough problems right here at home. We have no right running around the World telling other Nations who should or shouldn't be their Leaders. And besides that, we're broke. Spending several $Billion in Taxpayer Dollars on Ukraine is ludicrous. To me, it's criminal. Let's just get our cash back and move on. The Russians and Ukrainians can sort out their own problems.

The US has no right to select the leaders of foreign countries, If the Russians want Putin it is their call and should be respected.

WTF are you talking about?

I think it is pretty evident. you want the US to intervene in the affairs of Russia, and most sane people disagree with you.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The US has no right to select the leaders of foreign countries, If the Russians want Putin it is their call and should be respected.

WTF are you talking about?

I think it is pretty evident. you want the US to intervene in the affairs of Russia, and most sane people disagree with you.

We're talking about the Ukraine. Most sane people understand that.

 

[Alex1983]

This is Russia
Relax

Prime Minister Medvedev is sleeping during the Olymic Games Open Ceremony =)

 

[Desperado]

WTF are you talking about?

I think it is pretty evident. you want the US to intervene in the affairs of Russia, and most sane people disagree with you.

We're talking about the Ukraine. Most sane people understand that.

I believe I said the "affairs of Russia" ...

 

[nodoginnafight]

I think it is pretty evident. you want the US to intervene in the affairs of Russia, and most sane people disagree with you.

We're talking about the Ukraine. Most sane people understand that.

I believe I said the "affairs of Russia" ...

If the Ukraine is a "legitimate affair of russia" then it is just as much a legitimate affair of the U.S.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

 

[Desperado]

WTF are you talking about?

I think it is pretty evident. you want the US to intervene in the affairs of Russia, and most sane people disagree with you.

We're talking about the Ukraine. Most sane people understand that.

I believe I said the "affairs of Russia" ...

 

[nodoginnafight]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation - no more russia's "affair" than they are a U.S. "affair."

 

[emilynghiem]

The Drama Queen stuff is unnecessary. And it's not our business to make 'Putin go away.' What if other Nations spoke that way about our Leaders? How would we feel about that? When or if the Russian People want to dump Putin, so be it. But that's not our call. 'Regime Change' is arrogant Imperialist Bullshit. If other Nations pushed 'Regime Change' on us, we wouldn't stand for it. So why are we so arrogant?

We need to start minding our business. We have enough problems right here at home. We have no right running around the World telling other Nations who should or shouldn't be their Leaders. And besides that, we're broke. Spending several $Billion in Taxpayer Dollars on Ukraine is ludicrous. To me, it's criminal. Let's just get our cash back and move on. The Russians and Ukrainians can sort out their own problems.

The US has no right to select the leaders of foreign countries, If the Russians want Putin it is their call and should be respected.

WTF are you talking about?

I think it is pretty evident. you want the US to intervene in the affairs of Russia, and most sane people disagree with you.

The point where all people CAN influence policy and leaders regardless of nationality or standing, is being more consistent in enforcing laws respecting people's consent, period.

Obama clearly does not respect the consent of political opponents, so this failure to represent all Americans in unity weakens his ability to invoke "public authority."

Even Obama's presidency is contingent on Hawaii being a state, and that involved the military takeover by minority immigrants to override the sovereignty of the Kingdom of Hawaii to force capitulation and annexation, still contested to this day. President Grover Cleveland recognized that this seizure and annexation of Hawaii was in violation of international laws; and Congress passed a resolution apologizing for the illegal acts and genocide against the Hawaiian natives and descendants.

You can argue that protection of Hawaii as a US state is necessary for national security and interests. That is hardly different from Russia claiming Crimea for similar political reasons.

NOTE: For issues like this, with smaller states caught in between political conflicts of larger countries seeking control for their own interests, I would recommend a policy of "dual" citizenship that recognizes the autonomy of the actual residents affected, and allows them to choose citizenship under one or both countries equally, where all policies are settled by consensus, not by political coercion or military force. Perhaps the region in question could be recognized as a sovereign city state, and "rent" land to the countries who want to share political presence and control; under the agreement that all decisions are made by consensus, so the region is not abused for military aggression or political oppression (including reaping the economic benefits, and using that upper hand to keep the region under submission).

Such a set up would recognize and reward leaders who can actually orchestrate "consensus" in political relations, domestic or foreign; and would quit rewarding bullies for abusing unequal force.

If Obama wants to promote new models for government, he should start with his own domestic relations; or else he has no authority to compel others if he only wins by bullying!

 

[paulitician]

To the losertarians and liberals that are ok with Putin invading his neighbors for political gain for him and financial gain for him and his rich supporters:

So when does the US step in and help prevent Country A from being invaded? 100 killed, thousand killed, a million killed?

Or 100 oppressed, 1000 oppressed or 1 million oppressed?

The non-ethnic Russians living in Crimea now have to move to mainland Ukraine or some other country OR stay in place under the boot of Russians like the Cold War.

How would you like to wake up one morning to see Russian military personnel with weapons blocking your city roads telling you that you can't come this way??? Those troops blocking the media from covering what they are doing "in your country."

Of course then hearing the US say it is "none of our business." Hearing that on news would be the end of your freedom...

You better start worrying about your own Government. It's beginning to do those things and a lot worse. Putin didn't pass the Patriot Act and NDAA. Bush and Obama did. Big Brother is a far bigger threat to our Nation than Putin and Russia could ever be.

 

[paulitician]

Only idiot liberals and moron Paul worshipers think if you ignore Putin he will go away. Also only they thunk the only solution is war.... seems to me the true chickenhawks are you guys. Of course this time when a new world war breaks out we will have both Obama and Paul to blame

tapatalk post

The Drama Queen stuff is unnecessary. And it's not our business to make 'Putin go away.' What if other Nations spoke that way about our Leaders? How would we feel about that? When or if the Russian People want to dump Putin, so be it. But that's not our call. 'Regime Change' is arrogant Imperialist Bullshit. If other Nations pushed 'Regime Change' on us, we wouldn't stand for it. So why are we so arrogant?

We need to start minding our business. We have enough problems right here at home. We have no right running around the World telling other Nations who should or shouldn't be their Leaders. And besides that, we're broke. Spending several $Billion in Taxpayer Dollars on Ukraine is ludicrous. To me, it's criminal. Let's just get our cash back and move on. The Russians and Ukrainians can sort out their own problems.

It is our business you stupid fuck. Do you think all these things happen in a vacuum?

So you'd be ok with other Nations telling us who our Leaders should or shouldn't be? I'm guessing you wouldn't be ok with that. So it isn't our business to make 'Putin go away.' That's the ultimate in Imperialist arrogance. We have no business messing around in Russia's backyard. We wouldn't tolerate them messing around in our backyard. Our Government along with Great Britain, needs to stop sticking its nose in everyone's business. Period, end of story.

 

[thanatos144]

The Drama Queen stuff is unnecessary. And it's not our business to make 'Putin go away.' What if other Nations spoke that way about our Leaders? How would we feel about that? When or if the Russian People want to dump Putin, so be it. But that's not our call. 'Regime Change' is arrogant Imperialist Bullshit. If other Nations pushed 'Regime Change' on us, we wouldn't stand for it. So why are we so arrogant?

We need to start minding our business. We have enough problems right here at home. We have no right running around the World telling other Nations who should or shouldn't be their Leaders. And besides that, we're broke. Spending several $Billion in Taxpayer Dollars on Ukraine is ludicrous. To me, it's criminal. Let's just get our cash back and move on. The Russians and Ukrainians can sort out their own problems.

It is our business you stupid fuck. Do you think all these things happen in a vacuum?

So you'd be ok with other Nations telling us who our Leaders should or shouldn't be? I'm guessing you wouldn't be ok with that. So it isn't our business to make 'Putin go away.' That's the ultimate in Imperialist arrogance. We have no business messing around in Russia's backyard. We wouldn't tolerate them messing around in our backyard. Our Government along with Great Britain, needs to stop sticking its nose in everyone's business. Period, end of story.

If you dont understand the content of the debate why do you make a thread ? Your ignorance is astounding. No one is picking another nations leader you stupid fuck

 

[JWBooth]

It is our business you stupid fuck. Do you think all these things happen in a vacuum?

So you'd be ok with other Nations telling us who our Leaders should or shouldn't be? I'm guessing you wouldn't be ok with that. So it isn't our business to make 'Putin go away.' That's the ultimate in Imperialist arrogance. We have no business messing around in Russia's backyard. We wouldn't tolerate them messing around in our backyard. Our Government along with Great Britain, needs to stop sticking its nose in everyone's business. Period, end of story.

If you dont understand the content of the debate why do you make a thread ? Your ignorance is astounding. No one is picking another nations leader you stupid fuck

The only stupid fuck here is you, troll.

 

[JWBooth]

We're talking about the Ukraine. Most sane people understand that.

I believe I said the "affairs of Russia" ...

If the Ukraine is a "legitimate affair of russia" then it is just as much a legitimate affair of the U.S.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Then you'd be supportive of the Russians and Chinese organizing a coup in Mexico.

 

[gipper]

The Drama Queen stuff is unnecessary. And it's not our business to make 'Putin go away.' What if other Nations spoke that way about our Leaders? How would we feel about that? When or if the Russian People want to dump Putin, so be it. But that's not our call. 'Regime Change' is arrogant Imperialist Bullshit. If other Nations pushed 'Regime Change' on us, we wouldn't stand for it. So why are we so arrogant?

We need to start minding our business. We have enough problems right here at home. We have no right running around the World telling other Nations who should or shouldn't be their Leaders. And besides that, we're broke. Spending several $Billion in Taxpayer Dollars on Ukraine is ludicrous. To me, it's criminal. Let's just get our cash back and move on. The Russians and Ukrainians can sort out their own problems.

It is our business you stupid fuck. Do you think all these things happen in a vacuum?

So you'd be ok with other Nations telling us who our Leaders should or shouldn't be? I'm guessing you wouldn't be ok with that. So it isn't our business to make 'Putin go away.' That's the ultimate in Imperialist arrogance. We have no business messing around in Russia's backyard. We wouldn't tolerate them messing around in our backyard. Our Government along with Great Britain, needs to stop sticking its nose in everyone's business. Period, end of story.

What many Americans who think our leaders should intervene in the political affairs of other nations will never understand, is nonintervention is NOT isolationism. They also will never understand that by allowing our political leaders to intervene, leads to disaster. Our leaders are incompetent and as such incapable of controlling the affairs of other nations. They muck things up and do so to benefit themselves, the state, and the military industrial complex...NOT the American people.

Ukraine is a perfect example. Much has been written that has exposed the revolution was instigated by Americans because they did not want Ukraine tied to Russia. Now we find ourselves embroiled in another nation's affairs that could result in war. What does America have to gain with a war in Ukraine? Well nothing for nearly all Americans, but the power elite sure will gain benefits for themselves.

 

[nodoginnafight]

What the isolationists never seem to comprehend is that our friendships abroad contribute to our own security every bit as much as our military does.

 

[gipper]

What the isolationists never seem to comprehend is that our friendships abroad contribute to our own security every bit as much as our military does.

No one is claiming America should not befriend other nations. Your post is foolishness.

What we non-interventionists comprehend is intervening in other nation's affairs is not effective and terribly dangerous.

One would think after decades of failed interventions by the power elite, ALL Americans would KNOW that intervening is NOT effective.

 

[paulitician]

It is our business you stupid fuck. Do you think all these things happen in a vacuum?

So you'd be ok with other Nations telling us who our Leaders should or shouldn't be? I'm guessing you wouldn't be ok with that. So it isn't our business to make 'Putin go away.' That's the ultimate in Imperialist arrogance. We have no business messing around in Russia's backyard. We wouldn't tolerate them messing around in our backyard. Our Government along with Great Britain, needs to stop sticking its nose in everyone's business. Period, end of story.

If you dont understand the content of the debate why do you make a thread ? Your ignorance is astounding. No one is picking another nations leader you stupid fuck

When you say 'make Putin go away', you are attempting to choose another nation's Leader. It really is the ultimate in Imperialist arrogance. But i know you've been indoctrinated on that Bullshit your whole life. You are an average American after all. So i'll have some pity and excuse your petulant ignorance.

 

[paulitician]

I believe I said the "affairs of Russia" ...

If the Ukraine is a "legitimate affair of russia" then it is just as much a legitimate affair of the U.S.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Then you'd be supportive of the Russians and Chinese organizing a coup in Mexico.

The U.S. and the West have have been carrying our Coups all over the World for many years. We certainly don't have room to preach about that.

 

[Pogo]

What the isolationists never seem to comprehend is that our friendships abroad contribute to our own security every bit as much as our military does.

No one is claiming America should not befriend other nations. Your post is foolishness.

What we non-interventionists comprehend is intervening in other nation's affairs is not effective and terribly dangerous.

One would think after decades of failed interventions by the power elite, ALL Americans would KNOW that intervening is NOT effective.

Nothing about regarding the Russian takeover of Crimea as more than "so what" implies "intervention".

Paul, and especially the OP, display an abject ignorance of international political dynamics by shrugging their shoulders and going "so what". That's the point here -- not intervention but ignorance.

That's why the mental midget OP tries to set up these "intervention" strawmen. It distracts from his own ignorance. Or at least he thinks it does. His strategy is to bury his head in the sand and pretend it isn't there, and then demonize everybody who's not staring down the same hole with him.

 

[Pogo]

If the Ukraine is a "legitimate affair of russia" then it is just as much a legitimate affair of the U.S.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Then you'd be supportive of the Russians and Chinese organizing a coup in Mexico.

The U.S. and the West have have been carrying our Coups all over the World for many years. We certainly don't have room to preach about that.

That doesn't address his point at all.