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Yeah you are right. Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring. Marino = 0Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense. They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points. I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
What's your point?
Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week. Wilson wins titles...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself
"Title"
Not "titles."
At least not yet.
Marino was one of the best all time. Right now, I'd choose Marino over Wilson.
Jeff Hostetler has won as many Super Bowls as Russell Wilson. Is he just as good?
Wilson is one of the best decision makers in the game, he is smart and is very athletic. Manning is also a very smart and athletic QB, he did not have the talent surrounding him that Seattle has. The Colts never had the defensive teams that Seattle, New England, Baltimore and on and on. The year before Manning's injury the Colts were 10-6, the following season 2-14, the team was virtually the same. Take Wilson out of Seattle and put in the backup and Seattle will suffer they would probably fall to 8-8. Wilson has support in Seattle. Wilson is a special QB, he is not the pocket passer that most of the greats are.
If the players were all in their prime, I'd take Montana, Elway, Manning, Brady, Rogers, Favre and several others over Wilson. Not a knock against Wilson he is good QB but I need to see if he has the longevity of the greats.
Yeah you are right. Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring. Marino = 0The OP notes Dan Marino..... He certainly wasn't a 35 percent winner even with no running back and pedestrian receivers. Anyone who wouldn't trade a prime Marino (or Manning) for Wilson is out of their freaking mind. And let's remember that Seattle wins because they are a defensive juggernaut. They have a hell of a lot of room for improvement on offense.
Seattle has the #1 running offense and the #10 passing offense. They are #6 in offensive DVOA as a whole and 10th in offensive points per game. It wasn't the defense that scored 394 offensive points. I will be happy if they improve on offense but it wont give anyone else much of a chance. You should really educate yourself before you pop off
Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
What's your point?
Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week. Wilson wins titles...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself
Terry Bradshaw had 4 superbowl rings, but I don't consider him in the same boat as Manning! But I will admit his less than stellar post-season performance hurts him.I have to admit the title of the thread seems ludicrous. But humor me for a moment. First I have to say that Manning is among the best quarterbacks to ever play the game. I think that had he won another Super Bowl he would be atop the conversation for the best ever. But nine times he has gone "one and done" in the playoffs against single Super Bowl victory. I don't think there is any argument that Peyton Manning is probably the best regular season quarterback to play the game, but can anyone even try to argue anymore that he can't win the big game on a consistent basis? Personally, my feeling is "pressure Manning = win the game". That's what Seattle did in the Super Bowl last year. My conclusion is that if Manning has protection he is almost unbeatable, BUT put shoulder pads into Manning and he will crumble like a cheap paper napkin. Can THAT be considered the best ever?
I think in some ways Manning best quality is the biggest detriment to his legacy. Take any season in the NFL and make a comparison. Track the win/loss records of teams when their quarterback passes for 300 yards against when they have 30 or more carries as a team. I have done this countless times and what you will find is that when a quarterback throws for 300 yards the team wins about 35% of the time. When a team runs 30 times they win about 65% of the time. Despite the love of passing by NFL fans the statistics are clear that passing makes headlines but rushing wins games. But why would anyone try and run when you have Peyton Manning throwing the ball? The numbers say "run" but Manning's abilities demand a passing attack even though it is a strategy that fails more than it succeeds.
Think of some great quarterbacks; Dan Marino (never had a running game and never won a title), John Elway (never won a title until he had Terrell Davis running the ball)...Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris. Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jim Kelly (although they didn't win a title) had Thurmond Thomas....and as a segue....Russell Wilson has Marshawn Lynch.
Now when it is pointed out that Wilson is 5-1 in career playoff games a lot of people will say "yeah but he has Lynch and a great defense". Well...guess what....so did almost every other quarterback that won titles. In fact quarterbacks who won titles without a running game or a defense (or both) are few and far in between. But here's what intrigues me. According to STATS Inc...the quarterback with the best quarterback rating in the playoffs in NFL history is not Manning, nor Marino, nor Elway, Fouts, Montana, or Young.....it's Russell Wilson at 109.6. The second best is Bart Starr at 104.8. Is this to say that Wilson is a better quarterback than Manning? Pfft....no...let's not get silly...at least not yet. But is he more "clutch"? Well the numbers suggest he is and it makes me wonder hat the future has in store for Wilson.
I think if the Seahawks repeat as Super Bowl champions this year that Wilson has made a strong case for the Hall of Fame provided he demonstrates longevity...but the rings would be there, the efficiency stats are certainly there, the leadership is there, the star power is there......quite a bit of "ifs" remain....but let's ask this...which would you rather have? A QB who destroys all records in the regular season and collapses in the playoffs, or a guy that doesn't light up the stats but explodes in the playoffs? The stats are clear....in the big game Manning chokes and Wilson explodes.
Again I am NOT arguing that Wilson is better than Manning. That's absurd. I am looking at legacy and big picture considerations
8220 Impeccable 8221 Russell Wilson in rare company after another strong postseason performance HeraldNet.com - Seattle Sidelines
Top 5 QB:
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
4. John Elway
5. Aaron Rodger (this coming from a Bears fan. When all is said and done, he cracks the top 5)
Yeah you are right. Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring. Marino = 0Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
What's your point?
Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week. Wilson wins titles...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself
"Title"
Not "titles."
At least not yet.
Marino was one of the best all time. Right now, I'd choose Marino over Wilson.
Jeff Hostetler has won as many Super Bowls as Russell Wilson. Is he just as good?
Marino's probably the best QB that ever played, tbh. The dude could threw 30 and 40 yard bullets on the money way better than anyone who ever played. Anyone that doubts that doesn't know or wasn't paying attention. And people that hold it against him for 'not winning the big one'; well that's about like saying Barry Sanders wasn't the best RB ever because his team never won the big one.
Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Yeah you are right. Wilson = 1 Super Bowl ring. Marino = 0Ooo #10 passing offense! Wooopdy freaking do! Russell Wilson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Marino.
Robert Horry = 7 rings Michael Jordan = 6.
What's your point?
Well I will take Russell Wilson and the 2013 -2014 Seahawks over Marino's Dolphins any day of the week. Wilson wins titles...Marino only even gets to the Super Bowl once. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself
"Title"
Not "titles."
At least not yet.
Marino was one of the best all time. Right now, I'd choose Marino over Wilson.
Jeff Hostetler has won as many Super Bowls as Russell Wilson. Is he just as good?
Marino's probably the best QB that ever played, tbh. The dude could threw 30 and 40 yard bullets on the money way better than anyone who ever played. Anyone that doubts that doesn't know or wasn't paying attention. And people that hold it against him for 'not winning the big one'; well that's about like saying Barry Sanders wasn't the best RB ever because his team never won the big one.
Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Excuse me but seriously dude Marino has had two or three of the most talented receivers on his teams that the NFL has ever seen.
He had the one crazy good season..over 5000 yards with a QB rating of 108. even with that his average rating was 86. He had about half a dozen seasons over 4000 yards. He also threw a buttload of interceptions....252 over 17 years. Them's turnovers Sport. When you give the ball away that often you frequently have to throw your ass off to make up for it.
Ya..Marino was pretty good but let's not get crazy. There is a reason/s he never won a Super Bowl ring.
Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs. Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection. Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty. Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
I did a little research regarding the 17 Super Bowl winning teams during Dan Marino's career. I noticed that there were two things that stuck out almost every time. Most of those teams had a 1,000 yard rusher and most teams had a top 10 defense. I hit the books and totaled the frequencies.
13 out of the 17 teams possessed a 1,000 yard rusher.
16 out of the 17 teams had a Top-10 ranked defense.
Meanwhile, Marino played with a 1,000 yard rusher only once during his 17 seasons. He played with a top-10 defense in only four out of his 17 seasons.
To think that Dan Marino was as productive as he was without a running game to balance the passing game and without a defense to balance the offense is beyond logic. That makes his statistics far more impressive then other quarterbacks who had the benefit of a running game and defense to lean on.
Defenses knew Marino was going to throw instead of run—and still couldn't stop him.
Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs. Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection. Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty. Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs. Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection. Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty. Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
Seattle has a very good run blocking line. Their pass protection is terrible. Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection. They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th. Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run. I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest). So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft. Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs. Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection. Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty. Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
Seattle has a very good run blocking line. Their pass protection is terrible. Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection. They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th. Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run. I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest). So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft. Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
zero. You can say a lot of things about Wilson but lacking confidence is not one of them. He throws just fine from the pocket BTW. Watch a game or two and you will see just how quickly defensive linemen blaze through Seattle's o-line, especially on the right side. They may as well put me out there at right tackle. I can get steamrolled just as effectively
No, but Aaron Rogers from Packers will. Morons. Do i have to fix every thread now?
No, but Aaron Rogers from Packers will. Morons. Do i have to fix every thread now?
The best way you can fix anything is not to post.
Lots of great points made in this thread. Peyton Manning has a lot of career passing yards and holds the all time TD record. But the guy is a conehead from outer space. Statswise, he's the Rafael Palmeiro of football. The greatest ever? What are you, a bean counter?
If you don't see the greatness of Russell Wilson right now, and you don't recognize his greatness, you might as well be any other ESPN pundit who makes the safe and uncontroversial choice every week.
Russell Wilson is head and shoulders above Manning in every way but actual height. Is he Montana? Is he Unitas? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He isn't close to that. But is he already better than Manning? No question.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs. Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection. Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty. Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
Seattle has a very good run blocking line. Their pass protection is terrible. Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection. They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th. Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run. I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest). So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft. Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 08. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
With a similar quality line, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs. Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection. Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty. Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
Seattle has a very good run blocking line. Their pass protection is terrible. Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection. They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th. Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run. I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest). So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft. Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
No way do I consider Wilson to be a better QB than Manning. Put Manning on Seattle with that defense and you wouldn't lose a game
But I look at Wilson as a very good QB that does what is asked of him and more. Not being Peyton Manning is not a knock against a QB
Put Manning on the Seahawks and they wouldn't make the playoffs. Seattle's o-line is terrible at pass protection. Manning has all the mobility of the statue of liberty. Manning would get beaten like a drum if he played for Seattle and when Manning gets hit he crumbles like a stale cookie
You kidding? Manning with a decent line which Seattle is above average, they are winners. You are now sounding a bit crazy.
Seattle has a very good run blocking line. Their pass protection is terrible. Footballoutsiders has them at 24th in pass protection. They allowed 42 sacks in the regular season which ties them for 20th. Russell Wilson rushed 118 times this year and it's VERY rare that the Seahawks call a designed quarterback run. I would guess that Wilson had to scramble out of pressure on probably half of those (with read options making up the rest). So that's 42 sacks plus an estimated 59 scrambles....pfft. Manning wouldn't have survived the season.
How many of those sacks are due to Wilson not being able to make quick enough reads because of his lack of confidence in throwing from the pocket? I went to a game at Lambeau in 07. Favre's line was the worst I've ever seen. The rushers were in on him constantly but he had the confidence to take the hits and fling the rock and they eventually won a game they had no business winning.
With a similar quality line in 09 or 10, Rodgers wasn't making quick reads and the Packers then gave up the most sacks.
The fact that you even think to compare them shows how disassociated you are with reality.
