Russia And China 'In Agreement' Over Ukraine

[Book of Jeremiah]

What is the excuse for cutting our military?

The excuse seems to be our imbalanced budget, but it is not one that makes sense.

Cutting your military to a skeleton crew while Russia and China are on the largest most massive military buildup in world history doesn't make sense at all. I agree. I'm sure Obama will call that off now considering the recent developments. Don't you?

 

[Unkotare]

I'm sure Obama will call that off now considering the recent developments. Don't you?

I'm not sure of that at all. obama is incompetent, and the democrats are interested in what they believe will bring short-term political gains more than anything else.

 

[Katzndogz]

Do liberals really think that running up more American debt is that important to the Chinese? That's their ties to us. The same kind of ties between any lender and a deadbeat.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

That's just really ignorant. Study some history, kid.

It actually sums it up pretty well.

The Chinese have been selling us cheap crap and building up huge credits with which they buy more of our heavy industry and now surpasses us in heavy industry.

But their political elite are still ideological communists with temporary suspension of economic policies.

They are using capitalism to de-industrialize us and make the population sympathetic toward Marxist economics and our POTUS is actively promoting without using the key hot-button words.

Seriously, there is a whole forum just for you to spin conspiracy theories. Take advantage of it.

Actually he is trying to explain to you why the Chinese and Russians feigned their interest in capitolism if you'd pay attention. How has trade with China benefited us? We have financed our own demise here. Wake up, Unkotare.

 

[auditor0007]

What is the excuse for cutting our military?

The excuse seems to be our imbalanced budget, but it is not one that makes sense.

Cutting your military to a skeleton crew while Russia and China are on the largest most massive military buildup in world history doesn't make sense at all. I agree. I'm sure Obama will call that off now considering the recent developments. Don't you?

Russia and China combined spend about 35% of what we do on their respective military. You drivel about us cutting our military to a skeleton crew is laughable. What is not laughable is the fact that one day in the future, China will be able to outspend us on military and we will not be able to keep up, no matter what we do. You see, China's economy is going to be three times bigger than ours eventually, and it will be easy for them to outspend us. We need to prepare for that day by not becoming eveyone's enemy. I know the concept is difficult to grasp, but please try rather than using reactionary scare tactics, because it's not working on me.

 

[Borillar]

Of course they are in agreement, Matthew! They are in agreement over Taiwan too! These two nations have each others backs! Our leaders over the decades believed that by befriending China we were using the enemy of my enemy is my friend approach. What the Pentagon failed to factor in is that both of these nations are communist - have always been communist - and only used the appearance of changing in order to gain access to what they otherwise wouldn't.

Sorry, but China doesn't give a shit about Russia, and they know their ties to the US are much more important than any philosophy you think they may have in common.

I believe you are utterly mistaken about that, Auditor. I believe China has made it clear now she is "IN AGREEMENT" with Putin. My presidents name is not Putin. Furthermore, the communism that both nations have held fast to is a bond forged like iron that will one day smash into us with the force of a Tsunami - from the South border - Mexico - Chinese, Cuban & Nicaruaga troops and from the north border - Russians - from the west coast - Chinese - from the east coast - Russians - it's called the scissors effect.

I'm not surprised to learn you don't believe it. Some folks won't believe it until the communist tanks roll in and their boot is on their necks.

I think you have watched "Red Dawn" one too many times.

 

[Montrovant]

I was under the impression that Russia and China have a long-standing dislike for one another. Even when it was the USSR, I recall reading that that animosity remained firmly in place, despite their common communist natures.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Sorry, but China doesn't give a shit about Russia, and they know their ties to the US are much more important than any philosophy you think they may have in common.

I believe you are utterly mistaken about that, Auditor. I believe China has made it clear now she is "IN AGREEMENT" with Putin. My presidents name is not Putin. Furthermore, the communism that both nations have held fast to is a bond forged like iron that will one day smash into us with the force of a Tsunami - from the South border - Mexico - Chinese, Cuban & Nicaruaga troops and from the north border - Russians - from the west coast - Chinese - from the east coast - Russians - it's called the scissors effect.

I'm not surprised to learn you don't believe it. Some folks won't believe it until the communist tanks roll in and their boot is on their necks.

I think you have watched "Red Dawn" one too many times.

....and I believe you are attempting to dismiss what I've said by way of personal attack and ridicule because you have nothing else. Prove me wrong or drop the conspiracy nonsense, Unk. It's beneath you. ( hopefully )

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I was under the impression that Russia and China have a long-standing dislike for one another. Even when it was the USSR, I recall reading that that animosity remained firmly in place, despite their common communist natures.

Absolutely and they would like the West to continue to believe that fairy tale. The Russians and Chinese have formed an alliance and they have been doing military drills with each other for some time now. This article is from last summer. Read up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/w...splay-of-unity-hold-naval-exercises.html?_r=0

After being named China’s president in March, Xi Jinping made his first foreign visit to Russia, where he held talks that culminated in the announcement last month of a $270 billion deal for Rosneft, the Russian state-owned oil company, to double oil supplies to China.

For the exercises in the Japan Sea, China sent seven warships, including a guided-missile destroyer with Aegis-type radars that track and guide weapons to destroy enemy targets, and missile frigates with antisubmarine abilities, the Chinese Navy said. The Russian lineup included the flagship of its Pacific fleet, the guided-missile cruiser Varyag, and a Kilo-class submarine.

“This is our strongest lineup ever in a joint naval drill,” General Yang said. “Our forces come from two fleets — the North Sea Fleet and the South Sea Fleet — and include seven ships, three helicopters and one special warfare unit.”

The diversity of vessels and the more sophisticated exercises illustrated a sudden deepening of the military cooperation between Russia and China, said Nan Li, associate professor in the strategic research department at the United States Naval War College in Newport, R.I.

In a joint naval exercise last year between the two countries, maneuvers were restricted to counterterrorism and piracy, he said. This time the exercises included fleet air defense, antisubmarine warfare and surface warfare.

con't on link.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What was that drill for? The invasion of Taiwan.

 

[Unkotare]

It actually sums it up pretty well.

The Chinese have been selling us cheap crap and building up huge credits with which they buy more of our heavy industry and now surpasses us in heavy industry.

But their political elite are still ideological communists with temporary suspension of economic policies.

They are using capitalism to de-industrialize us and make the population sympathetic toward Marxist economics and our POTUS is actively promoting without using the key hot-button words.

Seriously, there is a whole forum just for you to spin conspiracy theories. Take advantage of it.

Actually he is trying to explain to you why the Chinese and Russians feigned their interest in capitolism [sic] if you'd pay attention.

No, he's playing at conspiracy games, not history and not reality.


"Wake up" = Agree with me because I insist!

 

[Unkotare]

I was under the impression that Russia and China have a long-standing dislike for one another.

They do.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Seriously, there is a whole forum just for you to spin conspiracy theories. Take advantage of it.

Actually he is trying to explain to you why the Chinese and Russians feigned their interest in capitolism [sic] if you'd pay attention.

No, he's playing at conspiracy games, not history and not reality.


"Wake up" = Agree with me because I insist!

Here is the reality of the situation, Unk. In a nutshell. There's no conspiracy to it. Read article below from 2005 on red Chinese plans and how Clinton was instrumental in assisting them. You should at least examine the facts before condemning them as a conspiracy. Don't you think?

To understand what is happening today, one must understand certain military tenets of warfare. These include:

Infiltrate the enemy country with advance forces and spies.

Pre-position supplies close to the anticipated battleground.

Destroy the enemy’s will to resist.

Destroy the enemy population’s morals and morale.

Sew confusion among the enemy population.

Cut lines of communication.

Create diversions.

Control all information and media outlets.

Attack on many fronts.

Destroy the enemy’s capability to wage war.

Reduce or destroy enemy’s military bases.

Strike only when ready and when enemy is at his weakest.
In the intelligence world, what we do is take pieces of information, like pieces of a puzzle, and “put them on the wall and see what picture develops.” Lord Wellington of Waterloo once said “I’ve spent my entire military career wondering what the chap on the other side of the hill was doing.” In intelligence circles, information gathering is chief among tasks, followed by “okay, what are they up to?”

Let us examine some current “intelligence indicators” and see what picture forms.

Over the last few decades, ever since Nixon went to China in 1972 to open trade relations, we have seen the Communist Chinese grow from a third-rate military force whose strength lay only in numbers to a very modern and well-equipped force ready to do battle on a global scale. Unlike Russia, the Chinese have done this very quietly, trying not to draw attention to their efforts, and with one goal in mind: destroy the United States and any allies. And we have helped them toward that goal. In fact, we continue to help them every day when we buy Chinese-made products. But beyond that, let’s examine events that have strengthened China’s military endeavors while weakening ours:

Carter gave away the Panama Canal, and now China operates it—and has total control of who uses it, what ships come and go, and who disembarks from those ships in Panama (such as Chinese males of military age that disappear into the hinterlands and later surface in Mexico close to our southern border).

Bill Clinton gave China “most favored nation” trading status, opening our market to cheap slave-labor-made goods, which also destroyed many US companies and costing us jobs by underselling the market with cheap products. At the same time we turned our back on long-time ally, Nationalist China. All of this to “appease” the Red Chinese.

Under the Clinton administration, Loral and Hughes were allowed to sell China missile technology and guidance systems for “communications satellites.” Within months we were told that China now bragged about being able to deliver a nuclear warhead to Los Angeles.

Also under the Clinton watch, Chinese spies were discovered at Los Alamos and in other places, some of which stole nuclear secrets for the People’s Liberation Army. (“All warfare is based on deception. There is no place where espionage is not used. Offer the enemy bait to lure him” -- Sun Tzu)

While all of this was happening, our southern border was being invaded by illegal aliens to the point that besides Mexicans, we have many reports of Asians, Central Americans, and Middle-easterners coming unhindered into the U.S.

Couple this with COSCO, the China Ocean Shipping Company, which is the Merchant Marine arm of the Chinese Navy, taking over not only the Panama Canal, but establishing a huge transshipment center in Freeport, Bahamas, just off the Florida coast. This huge complex contains some of the biggest cranes in the world, plus hundreds upon hundreds of Sealift containers the size of semi-trucks being stored there. When I see this I can’t help but think of Diego Garcia, our forward deployment base in the Pacific.

It is well known in the military that the easiest thing to move is troops. The hardest to move is material. You can order troops to march onto a ship or airplane, but it takes forklifts, cranes and manpower to move supplies. By forward deploying your logistics you are already half a battle ahead.

And Freeport is not the only suspect position for Chinese pre-deployment stocks. Reports have surfaced about COSCO ships unloading in Mexico and Canada, plus several ports inside the US itself. A few years back we read of a shipment in a Sealift container that came into Long Beach, California, loaded with automatic AK-47s, machine guns, grenades and explosives. We were told it was intercepted, and that it was probably being smuggled in to street gangs. We may never know of how many other shipments went undetected, and are still being smuggled in and pre-positioned. And not for street gangs!

Add to all this the fact that our own troops have been over-extended, our military suffering a continuing “build down” by base closings, reducing the numbers of aircraft in our squadrons and ships in our fleets, and reduction of war stocks by expenditure without restocking, plus using up our reserves and national guard forces in extended overseas missions, and we have the recipe for disaster. In other words, there ain’t no one home watching the chickens, and the wolf is prowling the broken fence line.

There are those who say that China is being influenced by prosperity, and that they are reaping the rewards of capitalism, and because of this have no reason to use military might to forward Mao’s version of Communism. These pie-in-the-sky wishers do not understand the Chinese. What we are really doing is financing their military buildups, technology, and monetary base. Those who have forgotten history need to be reminded that we did the same thing in the 1930s when we sold scrap metal to Japan, only to reap the whirlwind when they used our metal in the ships and planes and bombs that attacked Pearl Harbor. Hitler’s Germany also prospered from “free trade” by using our technology in the petroleum industry to manufacture fuels and lubricants by synthetic means. Still, we continue to feed the Chinese dragon and think nothing of where our money goes when we buy those items “Made in China.”

 

[Decus]

I would suggest the diplomatic phrasing of "largely in agreement" as announced by the Russians obscures the fact that there were some things on which they could NOT agree. This kind of statement provides an out for China.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

China has sold their products cheaper than any other nation on earth. How could they afford to charge us so little for the products they manufactured? Their communists. They use slave labor. Same as North Korea. Russia has the North Koreans manufacturing for them and sewing labels made in Russia inside - they are manufacturing womens under garments - this was reported by a woman who escaped from North Korea and testified before a congressional hearing. Why weren't our congressmen and women listening? Why weren't our political leaders listening? Did they really think they could make a deal with the devil and get away with it?

 

[Unkotare]

China has sold their products cheaper than any other nation on earth. How could they afford to charge us so little for the products they manufactured?

Because the bulk of their manufacturing has been in cheap labor, low-cost goods.

"Slave labor" is hyperbole, and the fact that North Korea is well-known for trade in counterfeit products does not lend credence to your conspiracy nonsense. If you want to indulge your inner child and play imagination-time that's fine, but don't try to pass it off as anything other than what it is. The Conspiracy Forum was made specifically for the crap this thread has turned into.

 

[Unkotare]

Anyone interested in real history relevant to the topic might recall what took place in China in 1978 and why.

 

[Unkotare]

I wonder who said "To get rich is glorious"? Doesn't sound very 'commie,' does it?