"Russian aggression" in Ukraine

[anotherlife]

Imagine if a law was passed in America that allowed individual public schools to reject English as the primary language and allow them to teach Spanish, Arabic, etc. as the primary and main language to be taught in the public school. How would that go over with Americans?
Ukraine is doing the same thing all countries do. They allow citizens to learn any language they want but want everyone to speak and be educated in the native language.

No, because we are talking about the prohibition of the other languages, not the prohibition of the state language in the public schools.

 

[anotherlife]

The Ukraine is not a nation state.

Ukraine has been artificially created on historical lands of many nations: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc. But official Kiev wants to make Ukrainians from all those nations and to use only one language: Ukrainian:

newly enacted Ukrainian law on education places restrictions on the use of minority languages in Ukraine.
Hungary is on the warpath against Ukraine’s education law

I guess, sooner or later they will start blaming Russia for that too.

“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e

Hungary's Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that his country will block any Ukrainian steps within the European Union after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has signed a notorious education law that critics say will infringe on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Hungary on Ukrainian education law: "This will be painful for Ukraine"

This is an interesting dynamics. Before post Soviet Ukraine switched to western orientation, there was no big education problem there. Now that they have switched to Western European orientation, they have alienated the one ally that they used to have in the European Union. And in the same time, they gave good reason for Russian border modifications. I think the best would be at this stage is that a few days before the Ukraine will switch back to Russian orientation, the European Union annexes the lands that were Poland and Hungary in 1939. But the secret groups that control the EU will probably do different things.

If you want to understand the reasons why contemporary Ukraine won’t be part of Russia and why it has chosen the Western orientation, you should look on much earlier times, namely the 10-11th centuries.

And why the EU should annex the lands which were Polish in 1939? Do you know who founded the city of Lvov, for example? Any guess?

To my understanding, Odessa, Lvov, and the other west Ukrainian cities were all founded by early medieval French traders, who worked on expanding the trade routes of the Frankish Empire.

 

[anotherlife]

Nations all over Europe, especially eastern Europe share the same situation as Ukraine. The history of Europe and European wars are of continuous disputes caused by one country conquering another, even if hundreds of years ago. Pockets of ethnic demographics exist almost everywhere. Countries colonize after conquering and when the host country obtains independence from the conquering nation the remnants of that colonization remain.
People who remain in those countries as the remnants of occupation and colonization have options if they do not want to swear allegiance and become loyal citizens of the host country. They have the option of leaving and returning to the country of their ethnicity and preferred allegiance.

No, because then you have to leave your own capital city, de colonialize it if you like. For example, Vienna, Austria, was settled by Slavs after the fall of the Roman Empire. Would you want the Austrians to de colonialize Vienna then?

 

[Camp]

Imagine if a law was passed in America that allowed individual public schools to reject English as the primary language and allow them to teach Spanish, Arabic, etc. as the primary and main language to be taught in the public school. How would that go over with Americans?
Ukraine is doing the same thing all countries do. They allow citizens to learn any language they want but want everyone to speak and be educated in the native language.

No, because we are talking about the prohibition of the other languages, not the prohibition of the state language in the public schools.

There is no prohibition in the new law. In fact, the law allows the schools to use and teach languages of their choice in elementary school. The requirement to change over to Ukrainian does not happen until the student enters secondary school at about the age of 10. The schools still will have the option of teaching whatever language they want as additional language classes. The new law only demands that the primary language used for instruction purposes and the primary language taught is the native language of Ukraine once the child completes elementary school. By the age of 10, a child should be fluent in whatever language the parents and school chose and decided on. Ukraine is simply saying that once a child learns their ethnic language it is time to learn the language of their country as well.

 

[anotherlife]

Imagine if a law was passed in America that allowed individual public schools to reject English as the primary language and allow them to teach Spanish, Arabic, etc. as the primary and main language to be taught in the public school. How would that go over with Americans?
Ukraine is doing the same thing all countries do. They allow citizens to learn any language they want but want everyone to speak and be educated in the native language.

No, because we are talking about the prohibition of the other languages, not the prohibition of the state language in the public schools.

There is no prohibition in the new law. In fact, the law allows the schools to use and teach languages of their choice in elementary school. The requirement to change over to Ukrainian does not happen until the student enters secondary school at about the age of 10. The schools still will have the option of teaching whatever language they want as additional language classes. The new law only demands that the primary language used for instruction purposes and the primary language taught is the native language of Ukraine once the child completes elementary school. By the age of 10, a child should be fluent in whatever language the parents and school chose and decided on. Ukraine is simply saying that once a child learns their ethnic language it is time to learn the language of their country as well.

The incorrect part of the law is that they demand this at age 10. The proper time to do this would be 16 or higher. And even then, not all subjects, but only those that teach how to interact with administration and court systems. With the internet used everywhere in government these days though, even that language skill is only needed at actual real court appearances. For that, you can hire a lawyer also.

So this Ukrainian law is as incorrect as the ancient 1930's laws were about aggressively assimilating citizens. The purpose of this education law is the same as it was then, namely to take away people's lands and businesses, using the excuse of language. B

No wonder it is against European Union standards and is unethical altogether.

 

[Stratford57]

The Ukraine is not a nation state.

Ukraine has been artificially created on historical lands of many nations: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc. But official Kiev wants to make Ukrainians from all those nations and to use only one language: Ukrainian:

newly enacted Ukrainian law on education places restrictions on the use of minority languages in Ukraine.
Hungary is on the warpath against Ukraine’s education law

I guess, sooner or later they will start blaming Russia for that too.

“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e

Hungary's Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that his country will block any Ukrainian steps within the European Union after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has signed a notorious education law that critics say will infringe on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Hungary on Ukrainian education law: "This will be painful for Ukraine"

This is an interesting dynamics. Before post Soviet Ukraine switched to western orientation, there was no big education problem there. Now that they have switched to Western European orientation, they have alienated the one ally that they used to have in the European Union. And in the same time, they gave good reason for Russian border modifications. I think the best would be at this stage is that a few days before the Ukraine will switch back to Russian orientation, the European Union annexes the lands that were Poland and Hungary in 1939. But the secret groups that control the EU will probably do different things.

If you want to understand the reasons why contemporary Ukraine won’t be part of Russia and why it has chosen the Western orientation, you should look on much earlier times, namely the 10-11th centuries.

And why the EU should annex the lands which were Polish in 1939? Do you know who founded the city of Lvov, for example? Any guess?

How can you say that "Ukraine has chosen the Western orientation" without asking the opinion of Ukrainian citizens i.e. without referendum?

So far we know what Soros and his puppets official Kiev have chosen for Ukraine without any referendum. And why do you think the referendum(-s) have not been allowed? Because the people who lead Ukraine towards "Western orientation" (translation: towards misery, chaos and significant decreasing its population) kinda knew in advance what the referendum would reveal and didn't want to reveal it to both the East and the West.

P.S. anotherlife, Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine and wants to be with Russia as well as many other Eastern Ukrainian cities. That's where Nazis burned about hundred protesters alive and in 3 years official Kiev has not punished anybody but some protesters for that.

Just a few days ago:
Ukrainian nationalists battle police outside court after anti-Maidan activists declared ‘not guilty’

Video:
Ukraine: Protesters and police brawl after court acquits 5 defendants in Odessa Massacre case

 

[Camp]

Imagine if a law was passed in America that allowed individual public schools to reject English as the primary language and allow them to teach Spanish, Arabic, etc. as the primary and main language to be taught in the public school. How would that go over with Americans?
Ukraine is doing the same thing all countries do. They allow citizens to learn any language they want but want everyone to speak and be educated in the native language.

No, because we are talking about the prohibition of the other languages, not the prohibition of the state language in the public schools.

There is no prohibition in the new law. In fact, the law allows the schools to use and teach languages of their choice in elementary school. The requirement to change over to Ukrainian does not happen until the student enters secondary school at about the age of 10. The schools still will have the option of teaching whatever language they want as additional language classes. The new law only demands that the primary language used for instruction purposes and the primary language taught is the native language of Ukraine once the child completes elementary school. By the age of 10, a child should be fluent in whatever language the parents and school chose and decided on. Ukraine is simply saying that once a child learns their ethnic language it is time to learn the language of their country as well.

The incorrect part of the law is that they demand this at age 10. The proper time to do this would be 16 or higher. And even then, not all subjects, but only those that teach how to interact with administration and court systems. With the internet used everywhere in government these days though, even that language skill is only needed at actual real court appearances. For that, you can hire a lawyer also.

So this Ukrainian law is as incorrect as the ancient 1930's laws were about aggressively assimilating citizens. The purpose of this education law is the same as it was then, namely to take away people's lands and businesses, using the excuse of language. B

No wonder it is against European Union standards and is unethical altogether.

Or it could be just about getting the whole country to speak at least one common language. Gee, it's Ukraine, maybe everyone should know how to speak Ukrainian. But there will always be those who will find an argument like insisting the kids should not learn the language until they are 16 instead of 10.

 

[Camp]

The Ukraine is not a nation state.

Ukraine has been artificially created on historical lands of many nations: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc. But official Kiev wants to make Ukrainians from all those nations and to use only one language: Ukrainian:

newly enacted Ukrainian law on education places restrictions on the use of minority languages in Ukraine.
Hungary is on the warpath against Ukraine’s education law

I guess, sooner or later they will start blaming Russia for that too.

“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e

Hungary's Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that his country will block any Ukrainian steps within the European Union after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has signed a notorious education law that critics say will infringe on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Hungary on Ukrainian education law: "This will be painful for Ukraine"

This is an interesting dynamics. Before post Soviet Ukraine switched to western orientation, there was no big education problem there. Now that they have switched to Western European orientation, they have alienated the one ally that they used to have in the European Union. And in the same time, they gave good reason for Russian border modifications. I think the best would be at this stage is that a few days before the Ukraine will switch back to Russian orientation, the European Union annexes the lands that were Poland and Hungary in 1939. But the secret groups that control the EU will probably do different things.

If you want to understand the reasons why contemporary Ukraine won’t be part of Russia and why it has chosen the Western orientation, you should look on much earlier times, namely the 10-11th centuries.

And why the EU should annex the lands which were Polish in 1939? Do you know who founded the city of Lvov, for example? Any guess?

How can you say that "Ukraine has chosen the Western orientation" without asking the opinion of Ukrainian citizens i.e. without referendum?

So far we know what Soros and his puppets official Kiev have chosen for Ukraine without any referendum. And why do you think the referendum(-s) have not been allowed? Because the people who lead Ukraine towards "Western orientation" (translation: towards misery, chaos and significant decreasing its population) kinda knew in advance what the referendum would reveal and didn't want to reveal it to both the East and the West.

P.S. anotherlife, Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine and wants to be with Russia as well as many other Eastern Ukrainian cities. That's where Nazis burned about hundred protesters alive and in 3 years official Kiev has not punished anybody but some protesters for that.

Just a few days ago:
Ukrainian nationalists battle police outside court after anti-Maidan activists declared ‘not guilty’

Video:
Ukraine: Protesters and police brawl after court acquits 5 defendants in Odessa Massacre case

Why would you tell someone that Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine? That is an easily provable lie to anyone who can Google a map. It's a half hour drive to the western border with Moldova. Maybe because that lie about it being in eastern Ukraine supports the lie about the people of Odessa wanting to be linked to the Russians and people in southeastern Ukraine.But hey, go ahead and post that map of Ukraine that shows Odessa being in eastern Ukraine.

 

[Stratford57]

The Ukraine is not a nation state.

Ukraine has been artificially created on historical lands of many nations: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc. But official Kiev wants to make Ukrainians from all those nations and to use only one language: Ukrainian:

newly enacted Ukrainian law on education places restrictions on the use of minority languages in Ukraine.
Hungary is on the warpath against Ukraine’s education law

I guess, sooner or later they will start blaming Russia for that too.

“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e

Hungary's Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that his country will block any Ukrainian steps within the European Union after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has signed a notorious education law that critics say will infringe on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Hungary on Ukrainian education law: "This will be painful for Ukraine"

This is an interesting dynamics. Before post Soviet Ukraine switched to western orientation, there was no big education problem there. Now that they have switched to Western European orientation, they have alienated the one ally that they used to have in the European Union. And in the same time, they gave good reason for Russian border modifications. I think the best would be at this stage is that a few days before the Ukraine will switch back to Russian orientation, the European Union annexes the lands that were Poland and Hungary in 1939. But the secret groups that control the EU will probably do different things.

If you want to understand the reasons why contemporary Ukraine won’t be part of Russia and why it has chosen the Western orientation, you should look on much earlier times, namely the 10-11th centuries.

And why the EU should annex the lands which were Polish in 1939? Do you know who founded the city of Lvov, for example? Any guess?

How can you say that "Ukraine has chosen the Western orientation" without asking the opinion of Ukrainian citizens i.e. without referendum?

So far we know what Soros and his puppets official Kiev have chosen for Ukraine without any referendum. And why do you think the referendum(-s) have not been allowed? Because the people who lead Ukraine towards "Western orientation" (translation: towards misery, chaos and significant decreasing its population) kinda knew in advance what the referendum would reveal and didn't want to reveal it to both the East and the West.

P.S. anotherlife, Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine and wants to be with Russia as well as many other Eastern Ukrainian cities. That's where Nazis burned about hundred protesters alive and in 3 years official Kiev has not punished anybody but some protesters for that.

Just a few days ago:
Ukrainian nationalists battle police outside court after anti-Maidan activists declared ‘not guilty’

Video:
Ukraine: Protesters and police brawl after court acquits 5 defendants in Odessa Massacre case

Why would you tell someone that Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine? That is an easily provable lie to anyone who can Google a map. It's a half hour drive to the western border with Moldova. Maybe because that lie about it being in eastern Ukraine supports the lie about the people of Odessa wanting to be linked to the Russians and people in southeastern Ukraine.But hey, go ahead and post that map of Ukraine that shows Odessa being in eastern Ukraine.

This may be the first time you are right, Camp: Odessa belongs to the region called SE Ukraine which would vote for reunification with Russia any time if allowed. Don't believe me? We are ready for a referendum to demonstrate that to the whole world. And since there was NO referendum so far, you are not supposed to tell me if it is a lie or not. We live in Ukraine and you don't.

Odessa has paid a very high price with quite a few lives of peaceful (!) protesters whom Nazis burned alive on May 2, 2014. The author of French documentary "Masks of Revolution" had a talk to a Nazi participating in it (he's still free, nobody even tried to arrest him!). And he said: "There is only one thing I regret about: we didn't burn more Russian separatists!"

Watch the documentary, may be you'll finally figure out a bit of the hidden truth.
FINALLY: 'Masks of Revolution' Maidan Documentary - Full Eng Subs (Video)

 

[anotherlife]

Imagine if a law was passed in America that allowed individual public schools to reject English as the primary language and allow them to teach Spanish, Arabic, etc. as the primary and main language to be taught in the public school. How would that go over with Americans?
Ukraine is doing the same thing all countries do. They allow citizens to learn any language they want but want everyone to speak and be educated in the native language.

No, because we are talking about the prohibition of the other languages, not the prohibition of the state language in the public schools.

There is no prohibition in the new law. In fact, the law allows the schools to use and teach languages of their choice in elementary school. The requirement to change over to Ukrainian does not happen until the student enters secondary school at about the age of 10. The schools still will have the option of teaching whatever language they want as additional language classes. The new law only demands that the primary language used for instruction purposes and the primary language taught is the native language of Ukraine once the child completes elementary school. By the age of 10, a child should be fluent in whatever language the parents and school chose and decided on. Ukraine is simply saying that once a child learns their ethnic language it is time to learn the language of their country as well.

The incorrect part of the law is that they demand this at age 10. The proper time to do this would be 16 or higher. And even then, not all subjects, but only those that teach how to interact with administration and court systems. With the internet used everywhere in government these days though, even that language skill is only needed at actual real court appearances. For that, you can hire a lawyer also.

So this Ukrainian law is as incorrect as the ancient 1930's laws were about aggressively assimilating citizens. The purpose of this education law is the same as it was then, namely to take away people's lands and businesses, using the excuse of language. B

No wonder it is against European Union standards and is unethical altogether.

Or it could be just about getting the whole country to speak at least one common language. Gee, it's Ukraine, maybe everyone should know how to speak Ukrainian. But there will always be those who will find an argument like insisting the kids should not learn the language until they are 16 instead of 10.

No because this logic has already failed in 1920. People shouldn't speak a common language in any country. The last country that required a common language was the Kingdom of Hungary, and it was partitioned to 7 small countries as a result. This, as precedence, makes it a legal necessity to partition the Ukraine too, the same way.

 

[anotherlife]

Ukraine has been artificially created on historical lands of many nations: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc. But official Kiev wants to make Ukrainians from all those nations and to use only one language: Ukrainian:

newly enacted Ukrainian law on education places restrictions on the use of minority languages in Ukraine.
Hungary is on the warpath against Ukraine’s education law

I guess, sooner or later they will start blaming Russia for that too.

“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e

Hungary's Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that his country will block any Ukrainian steps within the European Union after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has signed a notorious education law that critics say will infringe on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Hungary on Ukrainian education law: "This will be painful for Ukraine"

This is an interesting dynamics. Before post Soviet Ukraine switched to western orientation, there was no big education problem there. Now that they have switched to Western European orientation, they have alienated the one ally that they used to have in the European Union. And in the same time, they gave good reason for Russian border modifications. I think the best would be at this stage is that a few days before the Ukraine will switch back to Russian orientation, the European Union annexes the lands that were Poland and Hungary in 1939. But the secret groups that control the EU will probably do different things.

If you want to understand the reasons why contemporary Ukraine won’t be part of Russia and why it has chosen the Western orientation, you should look on much earlier times, namely the 10-11th centuries.

And why the EU should annex the lands which were Polish in 1939? Do you know who founded the city of Lvov, for example? Any guess?

How can you say that "Ukraine has chosen the Western orientation" without asking the opinion of Ukrainian citizens i.e. without referendum?

So far we know what Soros and his puppets official Kiev have chosen for Ukraine without any referendum. And why do you think the referendum(-s) have not been allowed? Because the people who lead Ukraine towards "Western orientation" (translation: towards misery, chaos and significant decreasing its population) kinda knew in advance what the referendum would reveal and didn't want to reveal it to both the East and the West.

P.S. anotherlife, Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine and wants to be with Russia as well as many other Eastern Ukrainian cities. That's where Nazis burned about hundred protesters alive and in 3 years official Kiev has not punished anybody but some protesters for that.

Just a few days ago:
Ukrainian nationalists battle police outside court after anti-Maidan activists declared ‘not guilty’

Video:
Ukraine: Protesters and police brawl after court acquits 5 defendants in Odessa Massacre case

Why would you tell someone that Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine? That is an easily provable lie to anyone who can Google a map. It's a half hour drive to the western border with Moldova. Maybe because that lie about it being in eastern Ukraine supports the lie about the people of Odessa wanting to be linked to the Russians and people in southeastern Ukraine.But hey, go ahead and post that map of Ukraine that shows Odessa being in eastern Ukraine.

This may be the first time you are right, Camp: Odessa belongs to the region called SE Ukraine which would vote for reunification with Russia any time if allowed. Don't believe me? We are ready for a referendum to demonstrate that to the whole world. And since there was NO referendum so far, you are not supposed to tell me if it is a lie or not. We live in Ukraine and you don't.

Odessa has paid a very high price with quite a few lives of peaceful (!) protesters whom Nazis burned alive on May 2, 2014. The author of French documentary "Masks of Revolution" had a talk to a Nazi participating in it (he's still free, nobody even tried to arrest him!). And he said: "There is only one thing I regret about: we didn't burn more Russian separatists!"

Watch the documentary, may be you'll finally figure out a bit of the hidden truth.
FINALLY: 'Masks of Revolution' Maidan Documentary - Full Eng Subs (Video)

The nazi question is interesting, to this day it is one of the most powerful. Propaganda tool. Here is a mysterious question. Why do Western European countries sponsor Nazis in Eastern European countries, whilst opposing the nazis at home in Western Europe? And why do east European countries still struggle against soviet style communists when Western Europe is working to adopt those communist policies?

 

[Eugene]

The Ukraine is not a nation state.

Ukraine has been artificially created on historical lands of many nations: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc. But official Kiev wants to make Ukrainians from all those nations and to use only one language: Ukrainian:

newly enacted Ukrainian law on education places restrictions on the use of minority languages in Ukraine.
Hungary is on the warpath against Ukraine’s education law

I guess, sooner or later they will start blaming Russia for that too.

“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e

Hungary's Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that his country will block any Ukrainian steps within the European Union after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has signed a notorious education law that critics say will infringe on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Hungary on Ukrainian education law: "This will be painful for Ukraine"

This is an interesting dynamics. Before post Soviet Ukraine switched to western orientation, there was no big education problem there. Now that they have switched to Western European orientation, they have alienated the one ally that they used to have in the European Union. And in the same time, they gave good reason for Russian border modifications. I think the best would be at this stage is that a few days before the Ukraine will switch back to Russian orientation, the European Union annexes the lands that were Poland and Hungary in 1939. But the secret groups that control the EU will probably do different things.

The smartest thing would be to split Ukraine among the countries, which historical lands it consists of. All the nations wpuld reunite, the civil war in Donbass would automatically stop and everybody would be happy. Except for Official Kiev's puppeteers: Soros&Co, who need Ukraine as a pawn in their dirty globalist games. And misery/ corruption/ Nazis/ high criminal activities in Ukraine keep decreasing its population, which is another Globalist's goal for this miserable country. And 40 million of residents of Ukraine have to remain hostages of those Globalists' goals.

I disagree.
Those territories are historically Ukrainian (I call them Russian as artificial state&nation Ukraine doesn’t exist for me) and they must not be split.
Lvov was under Polish and Austro-Hungarian rule while some period but it is Russian city.
I hope for changing government in Ukraine for smarter one which will realize that culture, economy do not allow to tear this part of Russia from the one called Russian Federation.

If you want to understand the reasons why contemporary Ukraine won’t be part of Russia and why it has chosen the Western orientation, you should look on much earlier times, namely the 10-11th centuries.

And why the EU should annex the lands which were Polish in 1939? Do you know who founded the city of Lvov, for example? Any guess?

And again you write bs about history.
Check the map of 10-11 century to understand that there was no sny Ukraine that time.
Besides 10-11 century cannot be taken into account when speaking about today’s borders.

To my understanding, Odessa, Lvov, and the other west Ukrainian cities were all founded by early medieval French traders, who worked on expanding the trade routes of the Frankish Empire.

Odessa was founded by Russian Empress Catherine II.
Thogh city on that place existed in ancient times - greek one.

I was born in Odessa. I know its history.

French traders did not found any cities but they had huge influence at some period even ruled some cities like duc de Richelieu in Odessa.

Why would you tell someone that Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine? That is an easily provable lie to anyone who can Google a map. It's a half hour drive to the western border with Moldova. Maybe because that lie about it being in eastern Ukraine supports the lie about the people of Odessa wanting to be linked to the Russians and people in southeastern Ukraine.But hey, go ahead and post that map of Ukraine that shows Odessa being in eastern Ukraine.

Before claiming someone in speaking lies you should get educated first!
Odessa is south-east part of Ukraine. From Donbass to the Ukraine-Moldova border all those territories including Tiraspol region are pro Russian. All those territories were founded by Russians in 18 century and still they have few nationalistic Ukrainian marginalized population.
That is why in Odessa on the 2 of May in 2014 that tragedy happened nazi lead by Porubiy (2nd person in Ukrainian government today) killed more than hundred unarmed people. They used guns, chemicals and burned them.
Odessa remembers that date. Odessa knows that neither Kiev nor EU investigate it.

 

[anotherlife]

The Ukraine is not a nation state.

Ukraine has been artificially created on historical lands of many nations: Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, etc. But official Kiev wants to make Ukrainians from all those nations and to use only one language: Ukrainian:

newly enacted Ukrainian law on education places restrictions on the use of minority languages in Ukraine.
Hungary is on the warpath against Ukraine’s education law

I guess, sooner or later they will start blaming Russia for that too.

“We continue to regard as shameful and outrageous the new Education Act, which drastically restricts the access of minorities, including the Hungarian national minority, to native language teaching in a manner that makes that practically impossible from the age of 10 and is incompatible with European values and regulations”, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of Hungary Péter Szijjártó stressed.
Our duty is to protect the Hungarian people

Hungary says Ukraine’s new school law hurts minority rights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...555caaeb8dc_story.html?utm_term=.e2848ba3b10e

Hungary's Minister of Foreign Affairs has announced that his country will block any Ukrainian steps within the European Union after Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has signed a notorious education law that critics say will infringe on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Hungary on Ukrainian education law: "This will be painful for Ukraine"

This is an interesting dynamics. Before post Soviet Ukraine switched to western orientation, there was no big education problem there. Now that they have switched to Western European orientation, they have alienated the one ally that they used to have in the European Union. And in the same time, they gave good reason for Russian border modifications. I think the best would be at this stage is that a few days before the Ukraine will switch back to Russian orientation, the European Union annexes the lands that were Poland and Hungary in 1939. But the secret groups that control the EU will probably do different things.

The smartest thing would be to split Ukraine among the countries, which historical lands it consists of. All the nations wpuld reunite, the civil war in Donbass would automatically stop and everybody would be happy. Except for Official Kiev's puppeteers: Soros&Co, who need Ukraine as a pawn in their dirty globalist games. And misery/ corruption/ Nazis/ high criminal activities in Ukraine keep decreasing its population, which is another Globalist's goal for this miserable country. And 40 million of residents of Ukraine have to remain hostages of those Globalists' goals.

I disagree.
Those territories are historically Ukrainian (I call them Russian as artificial state&nation Ukraine doesn’t exist for me) and they must not be split.
Lvov was under Polish and Austro-Hungarian rule while some period but it is Russian city.
I hope for changing government in Ukraine for smarter one which will realize that culture, economy do not allow to tear this part of Russia from the one called Russian Federation.

If you want to understand the reasons why contemporary Ukraine won’t be part of Russia and why it has chosen the Western orientation, you should look on much earlier times, namely the 10-11th centuries.

And why the EU should annex the lands which were Polish in 1939? Do you know who founded the city of Lvov, for example? Any guess?

And again you write bs about history.
Check the map of 10-11 century to understand that there was no sny Ukraine that time.
Besides 10-11 century cannot be taken into account when speaking about today’s borders.

To my understanding, Odessa, Lvov, and the other west Ukrainian cities were all founded by early medieval French traders, who worked on expanding the trade routes of the Frankish Empire.

Odessa was founded by Russian Empress Catherine II.
Thogh city on that place existed in ancient times - greek one.

I was born in Odessa. I know its history.

French traders did not found any cities but they had huge influence at some period even ruled some cities like duc de Richelieu in Odessa.

Why would you tell someone that Odessa is in Eastern Ukraine? That is an easily provable lie to anyone who can Google a map. It's a half hour drive to the western border with Moldova. Maybe because that lie about it being in eastern Ukraine supports the lie about the people of Odessa wanting to be linked to the Russians and people in southeastern Ukraine.But hey, go ahead and post that map of Ukraine that shows Odessa being in eastern Ukraine.

Before claiming someone in speaking lies you should get educated first!
Odessa is south-east part of Ukraine. From Donbass to the Ukraine-Moldova border all those territories including Tiraspol region are pro Russian. All those territories were founded by Russians in 18 century and still they have few nationalistic Ukrainian marginalized population.
That is why in Odessa on the 2 of May in 2014 that tragedy happened nazi lead by Porubiy (2nd person in Ukrainian government today) killed more than hundred unarmed people. They used guns, chemicals and burned them.
Odessa remembers that date. Odessa knows that neither Kiev nor EU investigate it.

I am French. In school the teacher said that Odessa was established by French traders. I guess re established now? IN any case, Odessa seems a French mandate before Catherine II.

And what would be the real borders of the Russian federation, in your opinion? (West and South West?)

And the 10th -11th century must be taken into account for today's purposes, because that is what created you. If you don't take it into account then you have no right to exist.

 

[Camp]

No matter what these propagandist try to fool and dupe the readers here, Odessa is not a Russian city in eastern Ukraine as they are claiming. The rebel and Russian goal is to claim all of southern Ukraine. Southeastern Ukraine is in civil war and the rebels want to drag all of southern Ukraine, including the southwest into the sphere of civil war. That is why they insist it is a part of eastern Ukraine. All you have to do is look at a map. The name Odessa refers to an Oblast, or region, as well as a city. It is in the southwestern corner of Ukraine on the western shores of the Black Sea. That is easily verified simply by looking at a map. Further, if a reader looks up the demographics they will learn that depending on the source, Odessa is between 60% to 75% ethnic Ukrainian and 32% to 25% ethnic Russian. The majority of the population is ethnic Ukrainian.

 

[anotherlife]

No matter what these propagandist try to fool and dupe the readers here, Odessa is not a Russian city in eastern Ukraine as they are claiming. The rebel and Russian goal is to claim all of southern Ukraine. Southeastern Ukraine is in civil war and the rebels want to drag all of southern Ukraine, including the southwest into the sphere of civil war. That is why they insist it is a part of eastern Ukraine. All you have to do is look at a map. The name Odessa refers to an Oblast, or region, as well as a city. It is in the southwestern corner of Ukraine on the western shores of the Black Sea. That is easily verified simply by looking at a map. Further, if a reader looks up the demographics they will learn that depending on the source, Odessa is between 60% to 75% ethnic Ukrainian and 32% to 25% ethnic Russian. The majority of the population is ethnic Ukrainian.

I think Odessa is historically more Moldovan, so I would rather transfer it to the Republic of Moldva. It was a military strategy move that Russia in the war against the Ottoman Empire decided to annex the norther part of the historic principality of Moldva, and then separated the Odessa region out of it. But Odessa remains Moldovan as per its heritage nonetheless.

 

[Camp]

No matter what these propagandist try to fool and dupe the readers here, Odessa is not a Russian city in eastern Ukraine as they are claiming. The rebel and Russian goal is to claim all of southern Ukraine. Southeastern Ukraine is in civil war and the rebels want to drag all of southern Ukraine, including the southwest into the sphere of civil war. That is why they insist it is a part of eastern Ukraine. All you have to do is look at a map. The name Odessa refers to an Oblast, or region, as well as a city. It is in the southwestern corner of Ukraine on the western shores of the Black Sea. That is easily verified simply by looking at a map. Further, if a reader looks up the demographics they will learn that depending on the source, Odessa is between 60% to 75% ethnic Ukrainian and 32% to 25% ethnic Russian. The majority of the population is ethnic Ukrainian.

I think Odessa is historically more Moldovan, so I would rather transfer it to the Republic of Moldva. It was a military strategy move that Russia in the war against the Ottoman Empire decided to annex the norther part of the historic principality of Moldva, and then separated the Odessa region out of it. But Odessa remains Moldovan as per its heritage nonetheless.

Which Ottoman-Turkish-Russian wars are you talking about? Are you referring to the ones from 200 years ago or the more recent ones from 150 years ago? How does any of that change the geography of Odessa from being in western Ukraine to being in eastern Ukraine, if that is even a debatable topic?

 

[anotherlife]

No matter what these propagandist try to fool and dupe the readers here, Odessa is not a Russian city in eastern Ukraine as they are claiming. The rebel and Russian goal is to claim all of southern Ukraine. Southeastern Ukraine is in civil war and the rebels want to drag all of southern Ukraine, including the southwest into the sphere of civil war. That is why they insist it is a part of eastern Ukraine. All you have to do is look at a map. The name Odessa refers to an Oblast, or region, as well as a city. It is in the southwestern corner of Ukraine on the western shores of the Black Sea. That is easily verified simply by looking at a map. Further, if a reader looks up the demographics they will learn that depending on the source, Odessa is between 60% to 75% ethnic Ukrainian and 32% to 25% ethnic Russian. The majority of the population is ethnic Ukrainian.

I think Odessa is historically more Moldovan, so I would rather transfer it to the Republic of Moldva. It was a military strategy move that Russia in the war against the Ottoman Empire decided to annex the norther part of the historic principality of Moldva, and then separated the Odessa region out of it. But Odessa remains Moldovan as per its heritage nonetheless.

Which Ottoman-Turkish-Russian wars are you talking about? Are you referring to the ones from 200 years ago or the more recent ones from 150 years ago? How does any of that change the geography of Odessa from being in western Ukraine to being in eastern Ukraine, if that is even a debatable topic?

I was the one who said that Odessa is in western Ukraine. Everyone else except you disagreed. I think Odessa is in western Ukraine, simply by looking at the map.

Also, before the Ottoman Empire, Odessa was a part of the principality of moldva. So I am not sure if it should be called Slavonic or Ukrainian in the first place.

 

[Eugene]

Oh my god! What are you talking about? What western Ukraine? What moldavian city?
Jesus...simply check the info in some sources.

1. Odessa was founded by Catherine II in 1795. It was decided to build there a port as it is situated in strategic important place.

2. Duc de Richelieu was governor of Novorossia from 1805 with Odessa as main city of the region. Novorossia included territories of contemporary Russia Rostov and Stavropol, contemporary east-southern Moldova, including Tiraspol and all regions between them - northern coast of the Black and Azov Seas.
Novorossia became Russian territory as a result of war against Ottoman Empire in 18 century.
While Richelieu’s ruling Odessa became 4th largest city of Russian Empire after Moscow, Sankt Petersburg and Warsaw.
He did a lot of good for Odessa and region but he did not found it.

3. As Odessa and Novorossia in common was almost not inhabited territory people from nearby territories were resettled here. By 1800 60% of population were Ukrainians (though they were called Malorussians that time) - they were village population, agricultural, 25-30% were Russians (Velikorussians), jews, germans, greeks and moldavians (Bessarabians). Russians, Jews and Germans were a kind of ruling class living in cities.
By 1989 about 49% of Odessa’s population called themselves Ukrainians, 40% - Russians, 6% - Jews and 2% - Bulgarians.

4. West Ukraine. Historically it is the name of territory which was returned to Ukraine in 1939. So Odessa cannot be called West Ukrainian city. Odessa is one of the most Russian city in contemporary Ukraine.
While in the USSR and untill 2014 one could hardly meet someone speaking Ukrainian language. Until 2014 Russian was official language for all administrative organizations though everyone could freely speak Ukrainian.

5. Moldova never possessed territory where Odessa is situated. The nearest Moldovian territory was the right riverside of Dnestr. A place where Ovidiopol is situated today.

 

[anotherlife]

Oh my god! What are you talking about? What western Ukraine? What moldavian city?
Jesus...simply check the info in some sources.

1. Odessa was founded by Catherine II in 1795. It was decided to build there a port as it is situated in strategic important place.

2. Duc de Richelieu was governor of Novorossia from 1805 with Odessa as main city of the region. Novorossia included territories of contemporary Russia Rostov and Stavropol, contemporary east-southern Moldova, including Tiraspol and all regions between them - northern coast of the Black and Azov Seas.
Novorossia became Russian territory as a result of war against Ottoman Empire in 18 century.
While Richelieu’s ruling Odessa became 4th largest city of Russian Empire after Moscow, Sankt Petersburg and Warsaw.
He did a lot of good for Odessa and region but he did not found it.

3. As Odessa and Novorossia in common was almost not inhabited territory people from nearby territories were resettled here. By 1800 60% of population were Ukrainians (though they were called Malorussians that time) - they were village population, agricultural, 25-30% were Russians (Velikorussians), jews, germans, greeks and moldavians (Bessarabians). Russians, Jews and Germans were a kind of ruling class living in cities.
By 1989 about 49% of Odessa’s population called themselves Ukrainians, 40% - Russians, 6% - Jews and 2% - Bulgarians.

4. West Ukraine. Historically it is the name of territory which was returned to Ukraine in 1939. So Odessa cannot be called West Ukrainian city. Odessa is one of the most Russian city in contemporary Ukraine.
While in the USSR and untill 2014 one could hardly meet someone speaking Ukrainian language. Until 2014 Russian was official language for all administrative organizations though everyone could freely speak Ukrainian.

5. Moldova never possessed territory where Odessa is situated. The nearest Moldovian territory was the right riverside of Dnestr. A place where Ovidiopol is situated today.

Very interesting! Thanks for the cultural overview.

You seem to start at the 18th century. That's all good, but the principality of Moldova was there since the 1290's till the ottoman times. That must count for something. Even if the ottomans emptied out its region as they did everywhere. Nevertheless, if the republic of moldva doesn't claim to be the creator of Odessa, then it could do well as an independent country.

The problem is, that probably no principality or kingdom would claim the creation of Odessa. But also there is no just way to join it to Russia or the Ukraine. So as an independent country, it would function best. Short of anything chartered, the case of Catherine II could be used so then Odessa is Russian.

 

[Eugene]

anotherlife I don’t understand why do you try to divide Ukraine. Odessa is a city of Ukraine and let it be further.

If talking about more ancient history of the territory,
There were greek cities in northern coast of the Black Sea and in Crimea. The name Odessa comes from Odessos - antique port city. [but later ruins of Odessos were found not far from Bulgarian Varna]
Then those steppes were home for different nomad tribes - Pechenegs until 10-11 century until Slavanians got those lands, 12-13 century those lands were under nomad tribes Polovtsy (Kipchaks) until Mongols came.
Mongols also defeated whole Rus’ and planned to move to Europe but lost too many warriors fighting agains Rus’, so they were only in some Polish and Hungarian lands for a pretty short period.
After 3 centuries under Mongols Rus’ was divided into Velikorus’ (Great Rus’ - Moscovian), Malorus’ (southwestern one, including Kiev) and Belorus’ (White Rus’). Polish and Lituanian Principality took lands of Malorussia and Belorussia under their control until 15 century when Rus’ was finally rejoined. But northern coast of the Black Sea was under Ottoman Empire which appeared after Eastern Roman Empire collapsed.
In 17th century Peter the Great moved borders of Russia to Baltic coast thanks to victory over Sweden and to The Black Sea coast. After numerous war conflicts between Russia and Ottoman/Turkey Russia got those territories and that was until 1991.

So if speaking basing on history Odessa region may belong to either Turkey or Russia or Ukraine. All other nations do not exist anymore.
But Turkey lost it in 17th century as well as Crimea.
Russia - Ukraine conflict is a kind of divorce as they are the same nation with the same history.

While Malorussia and Belorussia were under Polish some difference in culture and way of living appeared in those lands comparing to Velikorussia (Russia). Their language switched closer to Polish, catholics appeared and became major confession. Those changes were used later in political aims by Russia’s external enemies who wished to cut Russia into some pieces. National and confessional frictions are still the main instrument for Brits to create problems inside their enemy’s states (India, China, USSR, Yugoslavia, Middle East...)