"Russian aggression" in Ukraine

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

 

[Eugene]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Term “Kievan Rus’” appeared in the end of 19 century thanks to historian Soloviov, who devided periods of Russian history by the name of main city. Kievan, Novgorodian, Yaroslavian, Moscovian Rus’...it didn’t changed anything but the place of living of the main Knyaz’ ruling the country.

Rus’ as some kind of centralized country began in 9 century after Rurik’s taking power. Since that time till Ivan IV Grozny (you call him Terrible though it is wrong translation) that dynasty ruled Russia.

Ukraine and Ukrainians appeared in the beginning of 20 century.

If you try to say that period of history when huge part of Russia (western one, including contemporary Ukraine and Belorussia) was under Polish is the period of real Rus’, you are greatly and deeply mistaken.
That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Term “Kievan Rus’” appeared in the end of 19 century thanks to historian Soloviov, who devided periods of Russian history by the name of main city. Kievan, Novgorodian, Yaroslavian, Moscovian Rus’...it didn’t changed anything but the place of living of the main Knyaz’ ruling the country.

Rus’ as some kind of centralized country began in 9 century after Rurik’s taking power. Since that time till Ivan IV Grozny (you call him Terrible though it is wrong translation) that dynasty ruled Russia.

Ukraine and Ukrainians appeared in the beginning of 20 century.

If you try to say that period of history when huge part of Russia (western one, including contemporary Ukraine and Belorussia) was under Polish is the period of real Rus’, you are greatly and deeply mistaken.
That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Rus history is Ukrainian most of all, Russians were just a fringe tribe.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

 

[Stratford57]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

I agree with you about only one thing: Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

On July 15, 2013, Poland's Sejm adopted a special resolution dedicated to the 70th anniversary of the Volyn massacre. The resolution stated that crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army were of "the nature of an ethnic cleansing with signs of genocide." The resolution also specifies the number of Polish victims, killed in Volyn and Eastern Galicia in 1942-1945, to be around 100,000 people.

The document States that “the Volyn massacre, in addition to the poles killed Jews, Armenians, Czechs and representatives of other national minorities as well as Ukrainians who tried to help the victims.”
Senate of Poland voted for recognizing Volyn 1940 massacre as a genocide

The Polish Senate adopted a resolution on recognizing Volyn tragedy genocide

Poland says WWII massacre by Ukraine was a genocide
---
Bandera is an official Ukrainian hero.
A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
---
Cohen: Trump should have spoken out against what many see as Ukraine’s troubling glorification of Nazi collaborators. Trump should have broadened the agenda to call out Kiev for its official state policy of honoring controversial figures from World War Two.

The latest example: local authorities in the capital recentlyvoted to rename a major street after a former Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite named Roman Shukhevych.

Shukhevych led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), an organization responsible for the mass slaughter of Poles and Jews during the war. Even inside Ukraine the renaming is a disputed move, with hundreds of people taking to the streets last Friday to protest the decision – only to be attacked by an ultra-nationalist neo-Nazi group called C14.
Commentary: How Trump can show he’s tough on anti-Semitism
---

My question is: why the EU leaders haven't condemned official Kiev for glorification of those who fought on Hitler's side and were so cowardly that their victims were mainly children, women and old people? The only answer I know is: because the EU "leaders" are just a bunch of promoters for double standards and do what Soros&Co tell them to do.

 

[Eugene]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Term “Kievan Rus’” appeared in the end of 19 century thanks to historian Soloviov, who devided periods of Russian history by the name of main city. Kievan, Novgorodian, Yaroslavian, Moscovian Rus’...it didn’t changed anything but the place of living of the main Knyaz’ ruling the country.

Rus’ as some kind of centralized country began in 9 century after Rurik’s taking power. Since that time till Ivan IV Grozny (you call him Terrible though it is wrong translation) that dynasty ruled Russia.

Ukraine and Ukrainians appeared in the beginning of 20 century.

If you try to say that period of history when huge part of Russia (western one, including contemporary Ukraine and Belorussia) was under Polish is the period of real Rus’, you are greatly and deeply mistaken.
That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Rus history is Ukrainian most of all, Russians were just a fringe tribe.

Could you please explain your statement?

Here is what I know:
Russian statehood appeared...grew out of Rurik’s dynasty ruling Rus’. Rurik was northwestern Slavanian Knyaz - Varyag. Varyags lived in territory of contemporary Sanct Petersburg and they had close relations to Vikings. They even took part in their raids to Britain and France.
So how can you say that “Rus’ history is Ukrainian most of all”?
- The word “Rus’” comes from Slavic “army”. In annals one often meets phrases like “Rurik and his rus’ came...” or “Oleg sent his rus’ to...”
- Ukrainian coat of arms is one of Rurik’s. An attacking hawk. Hawk and wolf were his totem animals.
- Supposed to be Ukrainian hairstyle - forelock on a bold head and long mustache are Varyag’s attribute for warrior. In Roman annals detailed description of Svyatoslav (Rurik’s grandson) is met - and he had such appearance.

So, what do you mean Ukrainian in Russian history?
Why all “Ukrainian” symbols are taken from Russians?
And how can Russian history be Ukrainian if Ukraine appeared only in 20 century?

 

[Eugene]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

It is very difficult to argue about kindness of Polish in 15 century. But mass killings took place for sure. And permanent struggling of western Russian population against their Polish masters which lead to a full victory by 17 century when Poland became de facto part of Russian Empire (de jure - in 18 century).

If they were so humanic why such a hate of Ukrainians still remains against you?

Even Russians have no such attitude to Polish though Moscow was burnt by them.

Russia had many war conflicts with Germany and Turkey but we don’t feel them enemy.
Polish are very aggressive to Russia...you bark and you hope that soon you will dare to bite if some strong friend would stand near.
Inferiority complex for whole the nation...I do really feel condolence to you.

 

[anotherlife]

anotherlife I don’t understand why do you try to divide Ukraine. Odessa is a city of Ukraine and let it be further.

If talking about more ancient history of the territory,
There were greek cities in northern coast of the Black Sea and in Crimea. The name Odessa comes from Odessos - antique port city. [but later ruins of Odessos were found not far from Bulgarian Varna]
Then those steppes were home for different nomad tribes - Pechenegs until 10-11 century until Slavanians got those lands, 12-13 century those lands were under nomad tribes Polovtsy (Kipchaks) until Mongols came.
Mongols also defeated whole Rus’ and planned to move to Europe but lost too many warriors fighting agains Rus’, so they were only in some Polish and Hungarian lands for a pretty short period.
After 3 centuries under Mongols Rus’ was divided into Velikorus’ (Great Rus’ - Moscovian), Malorus’ (southwestern one, including Kiev) and Belorus’ (White Rus’). Polish and Lituanian Principality took lands of Malorussia and Belorussia under their control until 15 century when Rus’ was finally rejoined. But northern coast of the Black Sea was under Ottoman Empire which appeared after Eastern Roman Empire collapsed.
In 17th century Peter the Great moved borders of Russia to Baltic coast thanks to victory over Sweden and to The Black Sea coast. After numerous war conflicts between Russia and Ottoman/Turkey Russia got those territories and that was until 1991.

So if speaking basing on history Odessa region may belong to either Turkey or Russia or Ukraine. All other nations do not exist anymore.
But Turkey lost it in 17th century as well as Crimea.
Russia - Ukraine conflict is a kind of divorce as they are the same nation with the same history.

While Malorussia and Belorussia were under Polish some difference in culture and way of living appeared in those lands comparing to Velikorussia (Russia). Their language switched closer to Polish, catholics appeared and became major confession. Those changes were used later in political aims by Russia’s external enemies who wished to cut Russia into some pieces. National and confessional frictions are still the main instrument for Brits to create problems inside their enemy’s states (India, China, USSR, Yugoslavia, Middle East...)

Very interesting. As in Britain as well as throughout Europe, lands and countries are and have been created by the offices that were instituted by God. Even the preamble of the American constitution submits to this basic legal principle. First written formally in the Magna Carta under King John in 1222.

Typically, the offices of royals and heads of principalities fulfill this godly precondition, because royal crowns are received through the Pontifex Maximus (pope) of Rome or the Byzantine Empire. Once such a crown is received, all changes to the land in question become illegal, as per the clause of the Holly Bible where it says that changing or inventing borders is theft and violates the Ten Commandments.

Following this principle, the history that you have presented here seems to place Odessa squarely into Russian interest. But to clarify, and validate this assignment, we need to figure out who was the first souvereign ruler of Odessa, who received a crown from Rome or from Byzance.

So, who was it? And which year?

 

[anotherlife]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Kievan Rus could never be Ruthenian. Kievan Rus was established by Vikings, not Hungarians.

 

[anotherlife]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

Why do you call the Polish colonists in East Europe? The eastern border of Poland today is like 70 miles from Poland's capital, Warsaw. In England, Cambridge is more than 70 miles off London. In the state of New York, New York City is more than 70 miles off the state capital Akbany. Would you call the English colonialists in Cambridge, and New Yorkers colonialists in New York City?

 

[anotherlife]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

It is very difficult to argue about kindness of Polish in 15 century. But mass killings took place for sure. And permanent struggling of western Russian population against their Polish masters which lead to a full victory by 17 century when Poland became de facto part of Russian Empire (de jure - in 18 century).

If they were so humanic why such a hate of Ukrainians still remains against you?

Even Russians have no such attitude to Polish though Moscow was burnt by them.

Russia had many war conflicts with Germany and Turkey but we don’t feel them enemy.
Polish are very aggressive to Russia...you bark and you hope that soon you will dare to bite if some strong friend would stand near.
Inferiority complex for whole the nation...I do really feel condolence to you.

I can explain the hate part. European majority ethnicities are mostly full of hate. That is because the more you want your loot, the more hate you have to conjure up to keep it. And the ww2 entente put endless loot into the hands of some selected ethnicities, the Ukrainian being one of them.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

Why do you call the Polish colonists in East Europe? The eastern border of Poland today is like 70 miles from Poland's capital, Warsaw. In England, Cambridge is more than 70 miles off London. In the state of New York, New York City is more than 70 miles off the state capital Akbany. Would you call the English colonialists in Cambridge, and New Yorkers colonialists in New York City?

Western Galicia is probably more Polish, going back to Lendians a Polish tribe. but there were Polish claims to Kiev, and beyond at one point.

The Polish acquired these lands with Lithuanians against the Golden Horde splinter.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

It is very difficult to argue about kindness of Polish in 15 century. But mass killings took place for sure. And permanent struggling of western Russian population against their Polish masters which lead to a full victory by 17 century when Poland became de facto part of Russian Empire (de jure - in 18 century).

If they were so humanic why such a hate of Ukrainians still remains against you?

Even Russians have no such attitude to Polish though Moscow was burnt by them.

Russia had many war conflicts with Germany and Turkey but we don’t feel them enemy.
Polish are very aggressive to Russia...you bark and you hope that soon you will dare to bite if some strong friend would stand near.
Inferiority complex for whole the nation...I do really feel condolence to you.

So sorry, but Russians invited Poles into Moscow in the Muscovite war.

So, it's not just the Polish fault.

I'm of a Polish heritage, but I'm not particularly anti-Russian, or anti-Ukrainian.

I actually hate Western Europeans much more, the dirties who mock Poles as thieves, plumbers, drunks, and prostitutes, and thrust Islamic refugees upon Poles, even threatening sanctions upon Poland for resisting Islamic refugees.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Term “Kievan Rus’” appeared in the end of 19 century thanks to historian Soloviov, who devided periods of Russian history by the name of main city. Kievan, Novgorodian, Yaroslavian, Moscovian Rus’...it didn’t changed anything but the place of living of the main Knyaz’ ruling the country.

Rus’ as some kind of centralized country began in 9 century after Rurik’s taking power. Since that time till Ivan IV Grozny (you call him Terrible though it is wrong translation) that dynasty ruled Russia.

Ukraine and Ukrainians appeared in the beginning of 20 century.

If you try to say that period of history when huge part of Russia (western one, including contemporary Ukraine and Belorussia) was under Polish is the period of real Rus’, you are greatly and deeply mistaken.
That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Rus history is Ukrainian most of all, Russians were just a fringe tribe.

Could you please explain your statement?

Here is what I know:
Russian statehood appeared...grew out of Rurik’s dynasty ruling Rus’. Rurik was northwestern Slavanian Knyaz - Varyag. Varyags lived in territory of contemporary Sanct Petersburg and they had close relations to Vikings. They even took part in their raids to Britain and France.
So how can you say that “Rus’ history is Ukrainian most of all”?
- The word “Rus’” comes from Slavic “army”. In annals one often meets phrases like “Rurik and his rus’ came...” or “Oleg sent his rus’ to...”
- Ukrainian coat of arms is one of Rurik’s. An attacking hawk. Hawk and wolf were his totem animals.
- Supposed to be Ukrainian hairstyle - forelock on a bold head and long mustache are Varyag’s attribute for warrior. In Roman annals detailed description of Svyatoslav (Rurik’s grandson) is met - and he had such appearance.

So, what do you mean Ukrainian in Russian history?
Why all “Ukrainian” symbols are taken from Russians?
And how can Russian history be Ukrainian if Ukraine appeared only in 20 century?

Most historians agree that Kievan Rus were dominantly Ruthenian which would includes Ukrainians, Belarussians, Rusyns.

It's basically just foul Russian propaganda, much from Putin to pretend Kievan Rus were Russian, Russians were on the outskirts of Kievan Rus in the Vladimir Suzdal.

 

[Stratford57]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Term “Kievan Rus’” appeared in the end of 19 century thanks to historian Soloviov, who devided periods of Russian history by the name of main city. Kievan, Novgorodian, Yaroslavian, Moscovian Rus’...it didn’t changed anything but the place of living of the main Knyaz’ ruling the country.

Rus’ as some kind of centralized country began in 9 century after Rurik’s taking power. Since that time till Ivan IV Grozny (you call him Terrible though it is wrong translation) that dynasty ruled Russia.

Ukraine and Ukrainians appeared in the beginning of 20 century.

If you try to say that period of history when huge part of Russia (western one, including contemporary Ukraine and Belorussia) was under Polish is the period of real Rus’, you are greatly and deeply mistaken.
That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Rus history is Ukrainian most of all, Russians were just a fringe tribe.

Could you please explain your statement?

Here is what I know:
Russian statehood appeared...grew out of Rurik’s dynasty ruling Rus’. Rurik was northwestern Slavanian Knyaz - Varyag. Varyags lived in territory of contemporary Sanct Petersburg and they had close relations to Vikings. They even took part in their raids to Britain and France.
So how can you say that “Rus’ history is Ukrainian most of all”?
- The word “Rus’” comes from Slavic “army”. In annals one often meets phrases like “Rurik and his rus’ came...” or “Oleg sent his rus’ to...”
- Ukrainian coat of arms is one of Rurik’s. An attacking hawk. Hawk and wolf were his totem animals.
- Supposed to be Ukrainian hairstyle - forelock on a bold head and long mustache are Varyag’s attribute for warrior. In Roman annals detailed description of Svyatoslav (Rurik’s grandson) is met - and he had such appearance.

So, what do you mean Ukrainian in Russian history?
Why all “Ukrainian” symbols are taken from Russians?
And how can Russian history be Ukrainian if Ukraine appeared only in 20 century?

Most historians agree that Kievan Rus were dominantly Ruthenian which would includes Ukrainians, Belarussians, Rusyns.

It's basically just foul Russian propaganda, much from Putin to pretend Kievan Rus were Russian, Russians were on the outskirts of Kievan Rus in the Vladimir Suzdal.

They sure don't do a good job teaching Russian history in Polish schools, I can see. Same thing is going on in Ukraine now: the alleged stories poor Ukrainian children have to learn at schools have nothing to do with historical facts (in fact, I'm terrified even to think whom Ukrainian schools are raising now: looks like those children will grow up and become brainwashed Nazis denying their blood and history).

Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia

In the year of 988 knyaz' Vladimir has baptized all Rus' (into orthodox Christianity) in Kiev and since then (I believe) everybody has been calling Kiev "Mother of Russian cities" .

Christianization of Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia

Over 10 centuries the vast majority of the people living on those territories (known now as Russia, Belarus and Ukraine [both Western and Eastern!]) have one more thing in common (besides roots and history): their religion, they profess Russian Orthodox Christian religion having one and only Patriarch (currently it's Patriarch Kirill, the Patriarch of Moscow and whole Russia, and we are talking about all historical Russia with Belarus', Ukraine ans Moldova). Of course, during Soviet times the majority of population was atheist but the most devoted Christians have preserved our religion and now more and more people start attending our churches each year and big number of churches has been restored or built from scratch.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Term “Kievan Rus’” appeared in the end of 19 century thanks to historian Soloviov, who devided periods of Russian history by the name of main city. Kievan, Novgorodian, Yaroslavian, Moscovian Rus’...it didn’t changed anything but the place of living of the main Knyaz’ ruling the country.

Rus’ as some kind of centralized country began in 9 century after Rurik’s taking power. Since that time till Ivan IV Grozny (you call him Terrible though it is wrong translation) that dynasty ruled Russia.

Ukraine and Ukrainians appeared in the beginning of 20 century.

If you try to say that period of history when huge part of Russia (western one, including contemporary Ukraine and Belorussia) was under Polish is the period of real Rus’, you are greatly and deeply mistaken.
That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Rus history is Ukrainian most of all, Russians were just a fringe tribe.

Could you please explain your statement?

Here is what I know:
Russian statehood appeared...grew out of Rurik’s dynasty ruling Rus’. Rurik was northwestern Slavanian Knyaz - Varyag. Varyags lived in territory of contemporary Sanct Petersburg and they had close relations to Vikings. They even took part in their raids to Britain and France.
So how can you say that “Rus’ history is Ukrainian most of all”?
- The word “Rus’” comes from Slavic “army”. In annals one often meets phrases like “Rurik and his rus’ came...” or “Oleg sent his rus’ to...”
- Ukrainian coat of arms is one of Rurik’s. An attacking hawk. Hawk and wolf were his totem animals.
- Supposed to be Ukrainian hairstyle - forelock on a bold head and long mustache are Varyag’s attribute for warrior. In Roman annals detailed description of Svyatoslav (Rurik’s grandson) is met - and he had such appearance.

So, what do you mean Ukrainian in Russian history?
Why all “Ukrainian” symbols are taken from Russians?
And how can Russian history be Ukrainian if Ukraine appeared only in 20 century?

Most historians agree that Kievan Rus were dominantly Ruthenian which would includes Ukrainians, Belarussians, Rusyns.

It's basically just foul Russian propaganda, much from Putin to pretend Kievan Rus were Russian, Russians were on the outskirts of Kievan Rus in the Vladimir Suzdal.

They sure don't do a good job teaching Russian history in Polish schools, I can see. Same thing is going on in Ukraine now: the alleged stories poor Ukrainian children have to learn at schools have nothing to do with historical facts (in fact, I'm terrified even to think whom Ukrainian schools are raising now: looks like those children will grow up and become brainwashed Nazis denying their blood and history).

Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia

In the year of 988 knyaz' Vladimir has baptized all Rus' (into orthodox Christianity) in Kiev and since then (I believe) everybody has been calling Kiev "Mother of Russian cities" .

Over 10 centuries the vast majority of the people living on those territories (known now as Russia, Belarus and Ukraine [both Western and Eastern!]) have one more thing in common (besides roots and history): their religion, they attend Russian Orthodox Christian Church having one and only Patriarch (currently it's Kirill, the Patriarch of Moscow and whole Russia, and it includes all historical Russia with Belarus', Ukraine ans Moldova). Of course, during Soviet times the majority of population was atheist but the most devoted Christians have preserved our religion and now more and more people start attending our churches each year and big number of churches has been restored or built from scratch.

I'm Polish American, as in one of Polish heritage born in the U.S.

But, it's clearly that Ukrainians are the descendants of Kievan Rus.

First off, not only do ancient texts found in Kiev the capital of Rus resemble Ukrainian most.

But, we know Russia started in the Vladimir Suzdal, and only reached West only a few centuries ago.

 

[Stratford57]

But, it's clearly that Ukrainians are the descendants of Kievan Rus.

Clearly for whom?

Only for ignorant or brainwashed people. Official Kiev teaches children that Ukrainians were the first people on the Earth. So, for those who believe that BS, it's also clearly.

However, there are historical documents to believe and Russian literature (which reflected all the historical events), thanks God. We learned basically all Russian literature at school before there appeared certain people in the world who decided to rewrite the history to suit their own profits.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

But, it's clearly that Ukrainians are the descendants of Kievan Rus.

Clearly for whom?

Only for ignorant or brainwashed people. Official Kiev teaches children that Ukrainians were the first people on the Earth. So, for those who believe that BS, it's also clearly.

However, there are historical documents to believe and Russian literature (which reflected all the historical events), thanks God. We learned basically all Russian literature at school before there appeared certain people in the world who decided to rewrite the history to suit their own profits.

Russians, and Poles encountered a people in between them early on called Ruthenians which include Ukrainians, Cossacks, Belarussians, Rusyns etc.

These are the real descendants of Kievan Rus.

anyone who denies this must be ignorant of history.

 

[anotherlife]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Taxes, and encouraging Catholicism are hardly tyranny, you
re pretty much proving Polish were the most humane colonists ever.

Ukrainians killed millions of Poles between the Cossack Uprisings, and Wolyn Massacre.

Why do you call the Polish colonists in East Europe? The eastern border of Poland today is like 70 miles from Poland's capital, Warsaw. In England, Cambridge is more than 70 miles off London. In the state of New York, New York City is more than 70 miles off the state capital Akbany. Would you call the English colonialists in Cambridge, and New Yorkers colonialists in New York City?

Western Galicia is probably more Polish, going back to Lendians a Polish tribe. but there were Polish claims to Kiev, and beyond at one point.

The Polish acquired these lands with Lithuanians against the Golden Horde splinter.

I have always thought that something was up with Lvov/Lemberg. So now we know that it was the capital of the Lendians, a tribe of the Kingdom of Poland. No wonder every local language in that region that is not Slavonic knows the Poles as Lendiels.

 

[anotherlife]

Kievan Rus were clearly Ruthenian dominant like Ukrainian, rather than Russian.

Term “Kievan Rus’” appeared in the end of 19 century thanks to historian Soloviov, who devided periods of Russian history by the name of main city. Kievan, Novgorodian, Yaroslavian, Moscovian Rus’...it didn’t changed anything but the place of living of the main Knyaz’ ruling the country.

Rus’ as some kind of centralized country began in 9 century after Rurik’s taking power. Since that time till Ivan IV Grozny (you call him Terrible though it is wrong translation) that dynasty ruled Russia.

Ukraine and Ukrainians appeared in the beginning of 20 century.

If you try to say that period of history when huge part of Russia (western one, including contemporary Ukraine and Belorussia) was under Polish is the period of real Rus’, you are greatly and deeply mistaken.
That was a time of Polish tyranny - they tried people to change religion, they didn’t allow local people to take part in local authorities, taxes were huge... That is the reason of hate of Ukrainians to Polish until today.

Rus history is Ukrainian most of all, Russians were just a fringe tribe.

Could you please explain your statement?

Here is what I know:
Russian statehood appeared...grew out of Rurik’s dynasty ruling Rus’. Rurik was northwestern Slavanian Knyaz - Varyag. Varyags lived in territory of contemporary Sanct Petersburg and they had close relations to Vikings. They even took part in their raids to Britain and France.
So how can you say that “Rus’ history is Ukrainian most of all”?
- The word “Rus’” comes from Slavic “army”. In annals one often meets phrases like “Rurik and his rus’ came...” or “Oleg sent his rus’ to...”
- Ukrainian coat of arms is one of Rurik’s. An attacking hawk. Hawk and wolf were his totem animals.
- Supposed to be Ukrainian hairstyle - forelock on a bold head and long mustache are Varyag’s attribute for warrior. In Roman annals detailed description of Svyatoslav (Rurik’s grandson) is met - and he had such appearance.

So, what do you mean Ukrainian in Russian history?
Why all “Ukrainian” symbols are taken from Russians?
And how can Russian history be Ukrainian if Ukraine appeared only in 20 century?

Most historians agree that Kievan Rus were dominantly Ruthenian which would includes Ukrainians, Belarussians, Rusyns.

It's basically just foul Russian propaganda, much from Putin to pretend Kievan Rus were Russian, Russians were on the outskirts of Kievan Rus in the Vladimir Suzdal.

This is impossible. Ruthenian and Slav are not the same thing. Ruthenian and Russian are not the same thing either.

And the word Suzdal means acquisition or addition. That says a lot.