San Bernardino School Shooting

[miketx]

I would be OK with banning guns, if every other country does it first. Also, before they take mine, I want the millions of illegal guns off the street. I also want all munitions production facilities to shut down.
After about 5 years of being gun free, the statists can then continue on to ban swords, knives, fertilizer and what ever weapon the majority uses to replace it.
The problem ISNT inanimate objects. Its PEOPLE. Good luck banning that.

I agree serious gun control should not happen until the illegal guns are off the street. That should happen starting yesterday, but apparently we have better things to do. Don't know what.

Easier said than done. Bad guys are going to find ways to get guns, always have and always will.

Not a reason to not try. It's done in other countries. It's all relative, the gun #'s. In Europe, a lot of guys using vehicles to kill folks? Probably because it's harder to get a gun unnoticed.

Lotta people using guns in Europe to kill people too. And anyway, this ain't Europe and there's no way in hell a ban on guns is ever going to happen in this country. And if it ever does it'll mean the Constitution is discarded and we finally went over to total gov't control.

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

 

[OldLady]

Wow. Lots of ire in this thread. I just saw the news, brought it here, said what I said and left it for discussion.

I own two guns. I don't have children here, either. But if I did...if I did not take pains to make SURE they didn't KNOW I had guns and HID them and LOCKED THE GUNS UP, I would be liable for negligence, right? And rightfully so.

What I am saying is, in my initial opinion, is bullying is rampant. Kids getting fed up with it either kill themselves OR get mommy and daddys gun and take care of the problem. And it is mommy and daddy responsible for the access to the paybacks.

Teachers and principles pooh poohing off known bullying is another thread that might eventually be made. THIS thread is about the easy access of children to GUNS because PARENTS don't make the effort to keep said kids from getting them.

Gracie, this ain't nothin, as ire goes.
Kids were injured when an ADULT male entered the classroom, shot to death his wife and then turned the gun on himself. The kids weren't the shooters. So maybe it would have been better not to use that example to open your thread. Just sayin.

 

[OldLady]

I agree serious gun control should not happen until the illegal guns are off the street. That should happen starting yesterday, but apparently we have better things to do. Don't know what.

Easier said than done. Bad guys are going to find ways to get guns, always have and always will.

Not a reason to not try. It's done in other countries. It's all relative, the gun #'s. In Europe, a lot of guys using vehicles to kill folks? Probably because it's harder to get a gun unnoticed.

Lotta people using guns in Europe to kill people too. And anyway, this ain't Europe and there's no way in hell a ban on guns is ever going to happen in this country. And if it ever does it'll mean the Constitution is discarded and we finally went over to total gov't control.

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

What scenario never happens, Mike?

 

[Gracie]

Wow. Lots of ire in this thread. I just saw the news, brought it here, said what I said and left it for discussion.

I own two guns. I don't have children here, either. But if I did...if I did not take pains to make SURE they didn't KNOW I had guns and HID them and LOCKED THE GUNS UP, I would be liable for negligence, right? And rightfully so.

What I am saying is, in my initial opinion, is bullying is rampant. Kids getting fed up with it either kill themselves OR get mommy and daddys gun and take care of the problem. And it is mommy and daddy responsible for the access to the paybacks.

Teachers and principles pooh poohing off known bullying is another thread that might eventually be made. THIS thread is about the easy access of children to GUNS because PARENTS don't make the effort to keep said kids from getting them.

Gracie, this ain't nothin, as ire goes.
Kids were injured when an ADULT male entered the classroom, shot to death his wife and then turned the gun on himself. The kids weren't the shooters. So maybe it would have been better not to use that example to open your thread. Just sayin.

Agreed. But usually when a shooting occurs at a school...its a kid with a gun.

 

[miketx]

Easier said than done. Bad guys are going to find ways to get guns, always have and always will.

Not a reason to not try. It's done in other countries. It's all relative, the gun #'s. In Europe, a lot of guys using vehicles to kill folks? Probably because it's harder to get a gun unnoticed.

Lotta people using guns in Europe to kill people too. And anyway, this ain't Europe and there's no way in hell a ban on guns is ever going to happen in this country. And if it ever does it'll mean the Constitution is discarded and we finally went over to total gov't control.

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

What scenario never happens, Mike?

C'mon, you know. What you posted about us all shooting each other for no reason. I have owned guns since I was a young man, and never used them to shoot anyone. The vast majority of gun owners are like that as well. We only hear about the crimes committed with guns from the media. Also, if you really wanted to find out, you can find info that will show you just how many times guns are used each year to protect people from criminals. It's a very large amount, but you must ask yourself why the media never runs these stories?

 

[Uncensored2008]

For me the issue isn't how you were killed, it's the fact that you were killed.

And it's happening everywhere lately...places with gun laws, no gun laws...

Yes, there is that much more thoughtful and complicated question of why.....
I've tried to bring it up before here, and I just get run over by these guys. They're being unusually polite today--maybe cause you're in the room.
What is causing us to become a culture with no value for human life? I'm sure there are a lot of factors at work. Maybe violence in video games and on movies and television -- it's so bad now people don't even notice it. We are surrounded by it, soaked in it. I'm not sure if that's a reason or a symptom, but it's gotten SOO much worse over the years.

I'm correcting this post. Bugs Bunny & Friends, the Looney Tunes cartoons, were full of violence (but I still love them; funniest ever). The cowboy movies were full of shoot outs. And those John Wayne war movies. The Three Stooges. The Rifleman. Maybe they made us what we are. I dunno. They seemed somehow removed from real life, though. Violence now is so raw and immediate and us. Or is that just me?

No, it's not just you, but this is the world we find ourselves in. The violence we see on TV and in the movies has desensitized us, mostly our young people but I'm not sure that's the entire answer. The American Dream is fading, used to be you graduated from high school and if you worked hard you could get married, buy a car, and raise a family. These days that ain't the case, too many young people don't see a way up and that leads to some bad choices. Particularly our young males, their roles in our society are in flux and many don't have a positive role model to look to. Our faith and trust in most of the institutions like family and church and work are going down the tubes and it leaves too many young men open to gangs, drugs, and violence. And we haven't even talked about the rising problem of mental health that leads to senseless shootings.

I would say video games more than movies are the desensitizing factor. A kid playing "Modern Warfare" is actively killing hundreds of people in a sitting. Very realistic with heavy gore.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wow. Lots of ire in this thread. I just saw the news, brought it here, said what I said and left it for discussion.

I own two guns. I don't have children here, either. But if I did...if I did not take pains to make SURE they didn't KNOW I had guns and HID them and LOCKED THE GUNS UP, I would be liable for negligence, right? And rightfully so.

What I am saying is, in my initial opinion, is bullying is rampant. Kids getting fed up with it either kill themselves OR get mommy and daddys gun and take care of the problem. And it is mommy and daddy responsible for the access to the paybacks.

Teachers and principles pooh poohing off known bullying is another thread that might eventually be made. THIS thread is about the easy access of children to GUNS because PARENTS don't make the effort to keep said kids from getting them.

Gracie, this ain't nothin, as ire goes.
Kids were injured when an ADULT male entered the classroom, shot to death his wife and then turned the gun on himself. The kids weren't the shooters. So maybe it would have been better not to use that example to open your thread. Just sayin.

Agreed. But usually when a shooting occurs at a school...its a kid with a gun.

Given the number of kids in schools, it is a VERY rare occurrence.

Oh, and the child will ALWAYS be on some sort of psychoactive medication - every time without fail.

 

[Gracie]

The world is dehumanitized...or however its spelled...with tv violence, pc game violence...etc etc etc. Nothing is sacred any more. Nothing is hidden due to morality or sense of morals and if you do try to teach those aspects, you are a socialist, etc.

Is there an answer to solve it all? No. It's way too late. Hence..the need to be able to protect yourself and if that means guns...then by golly...have guns. Which is why I do. But again...I don't have kids around either.

 

[Gracie]

Wow. Lots of ire in this thread. I just saw the news, brought it here, said what I said and left it for discussion.

I own two guns. I don't have children here, either. But if I did...if I did not take pains to make SURE they didn't KNOW I had guns and HID them and LOCKED THE GUNS UP, I would be liable for negligence, right? And rightfully so.

What I am saying is, in my initial opinion, is bullying is rampant. Kids getting fed up with it either kill themselves OR get mommy and daddys gun and take care of the problem. And it is mommy and daddy responsible for the access to the paybacks.

Teachers and principles pooh poohing off known bullying is another thread that might eventually be made. THIS thread is about the easy access of children to GUNS because PARENTS don't make the effort to keep said kids from getting them.

Gracie, this ain't nothin, as ire goes.
Kids were injured when an ADULT male entered the classroom, shot to death his wife and then turned the gun on himself. The kids weren't the shooters. So maybe it would have been better not to use that example to open your thread. Just sayin.

Agreed. But usually when a shooting occurs at a school...its a kid with a gun.

Given the number of kids in schools, it is a VERY rare occurrence.

Oh, and the child will ALWAYS be on some sort of psychoactive medication - every time without fail.

Do you have a link showing the kid will "ALWAYS" be on some kind of med?

 

[Gracie]

Shooting at school.

Ok...what runs through your mind first? And be honest.

Sadness?
Disgust it happened again?
After that, who and why?
After the who and why, what pops in your head?

And there you are. My OP.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Easier said than done. Bad guys are going to find ways to get guns, always have and always will.

Not a reason to not try. It's done in other countries. It's all relative, the gun #'s. In Europe, a lot of guys using vehicles to kill folks? Probably because it's harder to get a gun unnoticed.

Lotta people using guns in Europe to kill people too. And anyway, this ain't Europe and there's no way in hell a ban on guns is ever going to happen in this country. And if it ever does it'll mean the Constitution is discarded and we finally went over to total gov't control.

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

What scenario never happens, Mike?

Gun owners shooting each other for no reason.

You of the anti-civil rights crowd promote an absurd fiction.

Gun murders are no different than other murders. Jealousy, commission of a crime, gang violence, terrorism.

Take the gun away from the equation and ALL of these still occur, but women become greater victims - which appears to be the goal of the left.

 

[miketx]

Wow. Lots of ire in this thread. I just saw the news, brought it here, said what I said and left it for discussion.

I own two guns. I don't have children here, either. But if I did...if I did not take pains to make SURE they didn't KNOW I had guns and HID them and LOCKED THE GUNS UP, I would be liable for negligence, right? And rightfully so.

What I am saying is, in my initial opinion, is bullying is rampant. Kids getting fed up with it either kill themselves OR get mommy and daddys gun and take care of the problem. And it is mommy and daddy responsible for the access to the paybacks.

Teachers and principles pooh poohing off known bullying is another thread that might eventually be made. THIS thread is about the easy access of children to GUNS because PARENTS don't make the effort to keep said kids from getting them.

Gracie, this ain't nothin, as ire goes.
Kids were injured when an ADULT male entered the classroom, shot to death his wife and then turned the gun on himself. The kids weren't the shooters. So maybe it would have been better not to use that example to open your thread. Just sayin.

Agreed. But usually when a shooting occurs at a school...its a kid with a gun.

Given the number of kids in schools, it is a VERY rare occurrence.

Oh, and the child will ALWAYS be on some sort of psychoactive medication - every time without fail.

Do you have a link showing the kid will "ALWAYS" be on some kind of med?

Back in the 90's they wanted to put my youngest on Ritalin. We went to the school and talked to the teacher and she said he needed this drug because he was messy and had a messy desk. My wife said she ought to see his room. He didn't get the dope. Screw those asswipes.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wow. Lots of ire in this thread. I just saw the news, brought it here, said what I said and left it for discussion.

I own two guns. I don't have children here, either. But if I did...if I did not take pains to make SURE they didn't KNOW I had guns and HID them and LOCKED THE GUNS UP, I would be liable for negligence, right? And rightfully so.

What I am saying is, in my initial opinion, is bullying is rampant. Kids getting fed up with it either kill themselves OR get mommy and daddys gun and take care of the problem. And it is mommy and daddy responsible for the access to the paybacks.

Teachers and principles pooh poohing off known bullying is another thread that might eventually be made. THIS thread is about the easy access of children to GUNS because PARENTS don't make the effort to keep said kids from getting them.

Gracie, this ain't nothin, as ire goes.
Kids were injured when an ADULT male entered the classroom, shot to death his wife and then turned the gun on himself. The kids weren't the shooters. So maybe it would have been better not to use that example to open your thread. Just sayin.

Agreed. But usually when a shooting occurs at a school...its a kid with a gun.

Given the number of kids in schools, it is a VERY rare occurrence.

Oh, and the child will ALWAYS be on some sort of psychoactive medication - every time without fail.

Do you have a link showing the kid will "ALWAYS" be on some kind of med?

Can you show even one school shooting by a student in the last 20 years where the shooter was NOT on something like Zoloft?

{Fact: At least 35 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 169 wounded and 79 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs). The most important fact about this list, is that these are only cases where the information about their psychiatric drug use was made public.}

School Shooters & Stabbings Committed by those on Psychiatric Drugs | CCHR International

 

[Uncensored2008]

Shooting at school.

Ok...what runs through your mind first? And be honest.

Sadness?
Disgust it happened again?
After that, who and why?
After the who and why, what pops in your head?

And there you are. My OP.

What runs through my mind is "what drug were they on? Will the psychiatric drug pushers finally be held accountable?"

 

[OldLady]

Not a reason to not try. It's done in other countries. It's all relative, the gun #'s. In Europe, a lot of guys using vehicles to kill folks? Probably because it's harder to get a gun unnoticed.

Lotta people using guns in Europe to kill people too. And anyway, this ain't Europe and there's no way in hell a ban on guns is ever going to happen in this country. And if it ever does it'll mean the Constitution is discarded and we finally went over to total gov't control.

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

What scenario never happens, Mike?

C'mon, you know. What you posted about us all shooting each other for no reason. I have owned guns since I was a young man, and never used them to shoot anyone. The vast majority of gun owners are like that as well. We only hear about the crimes committed with guns from the media. Also, if you really wanted to find out, you can find info that will show you just how many times guns are used each year to protect people from criminals. It's a very large amount, but you must ask yourself why the media never runs these stories?

From where I stand, there is never a good reason to shoot anyone (unless someone is trying to shoot you first). That would cut down on 99% of the gun homicides in this country. Do you think that man today who shot his wife in front of her classroom of kids had a good reason? Do you think those kids in Chicago who shoot other kids from their cars have a good reason? Of course you don't. It happens all the time, unfortunately.

 

[OldLady]

Wow. Lots of ire in this thread. I just saw the news, brought it here, said what I said and left it for discussion.

I own two guns. I don't have children here, either. But if I did...if I did not take pains to make SURE they didn't KNOW I had guns and HID them and LOCKED THE GUNS UP, I would be liable for negligence, right? And rightfully so.

What I am saying is, in my initial opinion, is bullying is rampant. Kids getting fed up with it either kill themselves OR get mommy and daddys gun and take care of the problem. And it is mommy and daddy responsible for the access to the paybacks.

Teachers and principles pooh poohing off known bullying is another thread that might eventually be made. THIS thread is about the easy access of children to GUNS because PARENTS don't make the effort to keep said kids from getting them.

Gracie, this ain't nothin, as ire goes.
Kids were injured when an ADULT male entered the classroom, shot to death his wife and then turned the gun on himself. The kids weren't the shooters. So maybe it would have been better not to use that example to open your thread. Just sayin.

Agreed. But usually when a shooting occurs at a school...its a kid with a gun.

Given the number of kids in schools, it is a VERY rare occurrence.

Oh, and the child will ALWAYS be on some sort of psychoactive medication - every time without fail.

Do you have a link showing the kid will "ALWAYS" be on some kind of med?

Can you show even one school shooting by a student in the last 20 years where the shooter was NOT on something like Zoloft?

{Fact: At least 35 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 169 wounded and 79 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs). The most important fact about this list, is that these are only cases where the information about their psychiatric drug use was made public.}

School Shooters & Stabbings Committed by those on Psychiatric Drugs | CCHR International

When I was a caseworker, Medicaid cut back on the antidepressants it wanted to pay for, and doctors started prescribing an "equivalent" but Medicaid approved anti depressant. Two of the teenaged girls on my caseload went biserk within two weeks of beginning the medication. One ended up in the psych ward and the other damned near killed herself in a most dramatic way. The psychiatrists began using the more expensive drug again and that was the last kid who had a reaction like that, I heard about anyway. I can't remember now what it was, but I have since heard that it was never recommended for teenagers--the state was trying to save a buck.

 

[miketx]

Lotta people using guns in Europe to kill people too. And anyway, this ain't Europe and there's no way in hell a ban on guns is ever going to happen in this country. And if it ever does it'll mean the Constitution is discarded and we finally went over to total gov't control.

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

What scenario never happens, Mike?

C'mon, you know. What you posted about us all shooting each other for no reason. I have owned guns since I was a young man, and never used them to shoot anyone. The vast majority of gun owners are like that as well. We only hear about the crimes committed with guns from the media. Also, if you really wanted to find out, you can find info that will show you just how many times guns are used each year to protect people from criminals. It's a very large amount, but you must ask yourself why the media never runs these stories?

From where I stand, there is never a good reason to shoot anyone (unless someone is trying to shoot you first). That would cut down on 99% of the gun homicides in this country. Do you think that man today who shot his wife in front of her classroom of kids had a good reason? Do you think those kids in Chicago who shoot other kids from their cars have a good reason? Of course you don't. It happens all the time, unfortunately.

It seems like you went off on a tangent there. I didn't say anything about having a good reason. I simply said that the media only shows the criminal use of guns and that there are a lot of legal self defense uses of guns that you never hear about. Check that out. And if we could get rid of the gun free zones, a lot of these crimes would not happen. You ever notice how most of them are in so called gun free zones? You would think if the laws worked, there would be no guns in a gun free zone. But since criminals by their very nature don't obey laws, those who DO obey the gun free zones are many times the victim of the law that was somehow supposed to protect them when criminals refuse to obey.

 

[OldLady]

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

What scenario never happens, Mike?

C'mon, you know. What you posted about us all shooting each other for no reason. I have owned guns since I was a young man, and never used them to shoot anyone. The vast majority of gun owners are like that as well. We only hear about the crimes committed with guns from the media. Also, if you really wanted to find out, you can find info that will show you just how many times guns are used each year to protect people from criminals. It's a very large amount, but you must ask yourself why the media never runs these stories?

From where I stand, there is never a good reason to shoot anyone (unless someone is trying to shoot you first). That would cut down on 99% of the gun homicides in this country. Do you think that man today who shot his wife in front of her classroom of kids had a good reason? Do you think those kids in Chicago who shoot other kids from their cars have a good reason? Of course you don't. It happens all the time, unfortunately.

It seems like you went off on a tangent there. I didn't say anything about having a good reason. I simply said that the media only shows the criminal use of guns and that there are a lot of legal self defense uses of guns that you never hear about. Check that out. And if we could get rid of the gun free zones, a lot of these crimes would not happen. You ever notice how most of them are in so called gun free zones? You would think if the laws worked, there would be no guns in a gun free zone. But since criminals by their very nature don't obey laws, those who DO obey the gun free zones are many times the victim of the law that was somehow supposed to protect them when criminals refuse to obey.

I was just trying to explain what my other post meant. I can't agree with you that more guns in more places is a good idea. We already have too many. Imagine living in a country where, like Tommy's country, there were 20 some gun homicides in a year. That's because they don't have guns to shoot each other with, Mike--not good guys OR bad guys. That would be awesome, in my mind. I know you don't agree, but that's how I feel about it.

 

[miketx]

That scenario never happens. That's simple gun banner rhetoric.

What scenario never happens, Mike?

C'mon, you know. What you posted about us all shooting each other for no reason. I have owned guns since I was a young man, and never used them to shoot anyone. The vast majority of gun owners are like that as well. We only hear about the crimes committed with guns from the media. Also, if you really wanted to find out, you can find info that will show you just how many times guns are used each year to protect people from criminals. It's a very large amount, but you must ask yourself why the media never runs these stories?

From where I stand, there is never a good reason to shoot anyone (unless someone is trying to shoot you first). That would cut down on 99% of the gun homicides in this country. Do you think that man today who shot his wife in front of her classroom of kids had a good reason? Do you think those kids in Chicago who shoot other kids from their cars have a good reason? Of course you don't. It happens all the time, unfortunately.

It seems like you went off on a tangent there. I didn't say anything about having a good reason. I simply said that the media only shows the criminal use of guns and that there are a lot of legal self defense uses of guns that you never hear about. Check that out. And if we could get rid of the gun free zones, a lot of these crimes would not happen. You ever notice how most of them are in so called gun free zones? You would think if the laws worked, there would be no guns in a gun free zone. But since criminals by their very nature don't obey laws, those who DO obey the gun free zones are many times the victim of the law that was somehow supposed to protect them when criminals refuse to obey.

I was just trying to explain what my other post meant. I can't agree with you that more guns in more places is a good idea. We already have too many. Imagine living in a country where, like Tommy's country, there were 20 some gun homicides in a year. That's because they don't have guns to shoot each other with, Mike--not good guys OR bad guys. That would be awesome, in my mind. I know you don't agree, but that's how I feel about it.

So no comment on the gun free zones and being able to defend yourself, and criminals not obey laws? Also, countries with low gun homicide rates have much higher homicide rates with other means.

 

[task0778]

Easier said than done. Bad guys are going to find ways to get guns, always have and always will.

Not a reason to not try. It's done in other countries. It's all relative, the gun #'s. In Europe, a lot of guys using vehicles to kill folks? Probably because it's harder to get a gun unnoticed.

Lotta people using guns in Europe to kill people too. And anyway, this ain't Europe and there's no way in hell a ban on guns is ever going to happen in this country. And if it ever does it'll mean the Constitution is discarded and we finally went over to total gov't control.

Oh relax. We'll be stupid assholes hoarding our obscene number of guns and shooting each other for no good reason long after you and I are both dead. Hopefully not from gunshots.

I dunno, depends on where you get shot.

You hoping to get shot in the ass or something? Or are you just hoping I get shot for wanting to go all Australia on you all? Just so's I know.

Not many people die from getting shot in the ass, right? I tried to inject a touch of humor, guess it sorta failed. Naw, I wouldn't wish any violence on you, of any kind. As for Australia, I seem to recall reading that about the same time Australia did it's ban the New zealanders didn't, but their gun violence statistics were about the same. IOW, the ban meant nothing. The Aussies tried a voluntary ban if I remember right; I highly doubt many gun owners in this country will give up their guns voluntarily, even if you paid them.