Sanitizing American History

[Uncensored2008]

can you explain what "presentism"

In this case it is applying present views and values to historical events.

Do you think that is valid when viewing history?

 

[ogibillm]

Today's liberals not only want all of our dirty laundry aired, but they oppose any teachings of the positive things America has created.

I've never been for home schooling, as I believe there is a severe lack of socialization for most kids who are home schooled. More and more though, I think it's the only way kids will ever see anything positive about our history.

what's weird is that this article is about actual conservatives trying to actually inject a political ideology into actual history classes and here you are complaining about liberals supposedly doing that in the land of make-believe.

weird.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Today's liberals not only want all of our dirty laundry aired, but they oppose any teachings of the positive things America has created.

I've never been for home schooling, as I believe there is a severe lack of socialization for most kids who are home schooled. More and more though, I think it's the only way kids will ever see anything positive about our history.

The left seeks to change the nation by perverting the past.

Private schools achieve what home schooling often fails at.

 

[Uncensored2008]

what's weird is that this article is about actual conservatives trying to actually inject a political ideology into actual history classes and here you are complaining about liberals supposedly doing that in the land of make-believe.

weird.

No, it isn't.

Your reading comprehension is as poor as your grasp of American history is.

 

[ogibillm]

can you explain what "presentism"

In this case it is applying present views and values to historical events.

Do you think that is valid when viewing history?

no. i don't - which is why the curriculum is correct to teach kids how to recognize and address it.

but you somehow thought that they were being taught the opposite, didn't you?

 

[ogibillm]

what's weird is that this article is about actual conservatives trying to actually inject a political ideology into actual history classes and here you are complaining about liberals supposedly doing that in the land of make-believe.

weird.

No, it isn't.

Your reading comprehension is as poor as your grasp of American history is.

lol. you really don't understand that the school board is pushing to have ideology mixed into the history classes? that's not apparent to you?

 

[jillian]

The three conservative members of the five-person board want to create a curriculum-review committee to make changes in the College Board’s new framework for Advanced Placement United States History classes. The conservatives claim the course structure contains anti-American bias.

The school board proposal has triggered student walkouts and other protests in several Jefferson County high schools. The students object to the review committee's plan to examine texts and course plans to ensure that they “promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights” and do not “encourage civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law.”

The proposal is the work of Julie Williams, one of the board’s conservative members. On her Facebook page, Williams says the College Board’s new curriculum “rejects the history that has been taught in the country for generations. It has an emphasis on race, gender, class, ethnicity, grievance and American-bashing while simultaneously omitting the most basic structural and philosophical elements considered essential to the understanding of American History for generations. Let me give you some examples of who is omitted: Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin with not even a mention of Martin Luther King, Jr., who was on the forefront of the civil rights movement. It ignores lessons on the Boston Tea Party, Lexington, Jefferson’s First Inaugural Address, Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address…”

Apparently Williams does not consider the Boston Tea Party an instance of “civil disorder.”​

Sanitizing American History

The Irony here, is that my 15-year-old son not only knows that the purpose of studying history is not to "...promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights", while discouraging "...civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law.”, but that, in fact, one of the most important events in American History - The American Revolution - was just that, an act of civil disorder, and disregard for the law.

How is it that a 15-year-old kid has a better understanding of the purpose of History, and comprehension of actual historical events, than do the adults who are supposed to be responsible for setting the curriculum for our kids? And conservatives claim that the intention of progressives to "indoctrinate" our kids...

your son isn't operating from a political ideology.

the first book my son had to read for APUSH was Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States". I'm figuring that Williams wouldn't approve of that one

 

[jillian]

can you explain what "presentism"

In this case it is applying present views and values to historical events.

Do you think that is valid when viewing history?

actually, it's the school board "conservatives" who are trying to apply their OWN present views and values to historical events by changing what they believe it is appropriate for kids to learn... whether borne out by reality or not

 

[Uncensored2008]

[]
no. i don't - which is why the curriculum is correct to teach kids how to recognize and address it.

but you somehow thought that they were being taught the opposite, didn't you?

I think the goal is clearly stated;

{ To help students create their own interpretation of U.S. history,
students and teachers should examine changing historical interpretations
over time, such as the different ways that historians have interpreted the
institution of American slavery or evaluated Reconstruction. Historians
have the added challenge of addressing “presentism,” or how contemporary
ideas and perspectives are anachronistically introduced into depictions
and interpretations of historical events. The skill of interpretation becomes
particularly important as students progress from describing what they are
learning about past events to reflecting on assorted historical evidence in terms
of contextual values and cultural bias. }

 

[ogibillm]

[]
no. i don't - which is why the curriculum is correct to teach kids how to recognize and address it.

but you somehow thought that they were being taught the opposite, didn't you?

I think the goal is clearly stated;

{ To help students create their own interpretation of U.S. history,
students and teachers should examine changing historical interpretations
over time, such as the different ways that historians have interpreted the
institution of American slavery or evaluated Reconstruction. Historians
have the added challenge of addressing “presentism,” or how contemporary
ideas and perspectives are anachronistically introduced into depictions
and interpretations of historical events. The skill of interpretation becomes
particularly important as students progress from describing what they are
learning about past events to reflecting on assorted historical evidence in terms
of contextual values and cultural bias. }

imagine that. an ap history class that prepares kids not just to regurgitate what's been presented to them in class, but are prepared to become good students of history and able to learn about it once out of the class.

do you not think that students should be able to view historical evidence and use knowledge about the values and bias of the time to help discern the importance and accuracy of that evidence?

in other words, are you against critical thinking?

 

[Uncensored2008]

actually, it's the school board "conservatives" who are trying to apply their OWN present views and values to historical events by changing what they believe it is appropriate for kids to learn... whether borne out by reality or not

Izzatrite?

Have you read Zinn's book?

{Daniels went on to quote Arthur M. Schlesinger as calling Zinn “a polemicist, not a historian." And he noted that Michael Kazin said of Zinn’s work that it was "bad history, albeit tilted with virtuous intentions.”

The Purdue board also issued a statement Wednesday, denouncing the AP article and backing Daniels.

"What we see is a complete misrepresentation of President Daniels' views and concerns. The exchange had nothing to do with academic freedom or censorship. Rather, it had to do with concerns over what is being taught in Indiana’s K-12 public schools,” said the statement. “In his leadership role at Purdue University, President Daniels has stated and demonstrated his complete commitment to freedom of inquiry and has been an emphatic voice for that freedom. The board rejects as totally misleading the original article and reaffirms its unanimous and complete support of President Daniels.”}

Mitch Daniels renews criticism of Howard Zinn insidehighered

What is "appropriate" is factual representation of events, using contemporary sources, rather than fabrications, to support views of events.

 

[Uncensored2008]

imagine that. an ap history class that prepares kids not just to regurgitate what's been presented to them in class, but are prepared to become good students of history and able to learn about it once out of the class.

do you not think that students should be able to view historical evidence and use knowledge about the values and bias of the time to help discern the importance and accuracy of that evidence?

in other words, are you against critical thinking?

You think an openly false presentation designed to elicit a sociopolitical outcome is "critical thinking?"

 

[ogibillm]

imagine that. an ap history class that prepares kids not just to regurgitate what's been presented to them in class, but are prepared to become good students of history and able to learn about it once out of the class.

do you not think that students should be able to view historical evidence and use knowledge about the values and bias of the time to help discern the importance and accuracy of that evidence?

in other words, are you against critical thinking?

You think an openly false presentation designed to elicit a sociopolitical outcome is "critical thinking?"

and you have evidence of that where?

 

[Uncensored2008]

imagine that. an ap history class that prepares kids not just to regurgitate what's been presented to them in class, but are prepared to become good students of history and able to learn about it once out of the class.

do you not think that students should be able to view historical evidence and use knowledge about the values and bias of the time to help discern the importance and accuracy of that evidence?

in other words, are you against critical thinking?

You think an openly false presentation designed to elicit a sociopolitical outcome is "critical thinking?"

and you have evidence of that where?

Did you even read the cited material?

Obviously not:

{The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download at the College Boardwebsite. What is noticeably missing are references to the majority of the Founding Fathers. George Washington is given a passing reference or two. However, they are implicated as founders of slavery, a practice which was in place hundreds of years prior to their birth. The U.S. involvement in WWII is reduced to the Japanese internment. Forget D-Day and the war on Hitler’s genocide machine.}

What is proposed is fraud, educational malpractice.

It amazes me, I would never promote David Barton's fabrication of history, yet the left is without hesitation in promoting equal fraud in the classroom - provided it comes from the radical left.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Today's liberals not only want all of our dirty laundry aired, but they oppose any teachings of the positive things America has created.

I've never been for home schooling, as I believe there is a severe lack of socialization for most kids who are home schooled. More and more though, I think it's the only way kids will ever see anything positive about our history.

The left seeks to change the nation by perverting the past.

Private schools achieve what home schooling often fails at.

Ask an American liberal about T. Jefferson for instance, they'll instantly say he was a slave owner. That's true, but that's as far as they want to go, they are not interested in hearing anything else about him.
If they ever hear that F. Roosevelt, or J.Kennedy were homophobic, then they will no longer wish to hear anything more about them.

 

[ogibillm]

imagine that. an ap history class that prepares kids not just to regurgitate what's been presented to them in class, but are prepared to become good students of history and able to learn about it once out of the class.

do you not think that students should be able to view historical evidence and use knowledge about the values and bias of the time to help discern the importance and accuracy of that evidence?

in other words, are you against critical thinking?

You think an openly false presentation designed to elicit a sociopolitical outcome is "critical thinking?"

and you have evidence of that where?

Did you even read the cited material?

Obviously not:

{The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download at the College Boardwebsite. What is noticeably missing are references to the majority of the Founding Fathers. George Washington is given a passing reference or two. However, they are implicated as founders of slavery, a practice which was in place hundreds of years prior to their birth. The U.S. involvement in WWII is reduced to the Japanese internment. Forget D-Day and the war on Hitler’s genocide machine.}

What is proposed is fraud, educational malpractice.

It amazes me, I would never promote David Barton's fabrication of history, yet the left is without hesitation in promoting equal fraud in the classroom - provided it comes from the radical left.

have you read it? i just read period 3: 1754-1800. what you claim, that anyone is implicated as a 'founder' of slavery, isn't in there.
and reading the concepts in period 7: 1890-1945 i can't find you're claim that the entirety of wwii is reduced to japanese internment.

in other words, you're full of shit.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

The three conservative members of the five-person board want to create a curriculum-review committee to make changes in the College Board’s new framework for Advanced Placement United States History classes. The conservatives claim the course structure contains anti-American bias.

The school board proposal has triggered student walkouts and other protests in several Jefferson County high schools. The students object to the review committee's plan to examine texts and course plans to ensure that they “promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights” and do not “encourage civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law.”

The proposal is the work of Julie Williams, one of the board’s conservative members. On her Facebook page, Williams says the College Board’s new curriculum “rejects the history that has been taught in the country for generations. It has an emphasis on race, gender, class, ethnicity, grievance and American-bashing while simultaneously omitting the most basic structural and philosophical elements considered essential to the understanding of American History for generations. Let me give you some examples of who is omitted: Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin with not even a mention of Martin Luther King, Jr., who was on the forefront of the civil rights movement. It ignores lessons on the Boston Tea Party, Lexington, Jefferson’s First Inaugural Address, Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address…”

Apparently Williams does not consider the Boston Tea Party an instance of “civil disorder.”​

Sanitizing American History

The Irony here, is that my 15-year-old son not only knows that the purpose of studying history is not to "...promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights", while discouraging "...civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law.”, but that, in fact, one of the most important events in American History - The American Revolution - was just that, an act of civil disorder, and disregard for the law.

How is it that a 15-year-old kid has a better understanding of the purpose of History, and comprehension of actual historical events, than do the adults who are supposed to be responsible for setting the curriculum for our kids? And conservatives claim that the intention of progressives to "indoctrinate" our kids...

your son isn't operating from a political ideology.

the first book my son had to read for APUSH was Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States". I'm figuring that Williams wouldn't approve of that one

And was he required to read anything as a counter to Zinn's book ?

 

[Uncensored2008]

imagine that. an ap history class that prepares kids not just to regurgitate what's been presented to them in class, but are prepared to become good students of history and able to learn about it once out of the class.

do you not think that students should be able to view historical evidence and use knowledge about the values and bias of the time to help discern the importance and accuracy of that evidence?

in other words, are you against critical thinking?

You think an openly false presentation designed to elicit a sociopolitical outcome is "critical thinking?"

and you have evidence of that where?

Did you even read the cited material?

Obviously not:

{The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download at the College Boardwebsite. What is noticeably missing are references to the majority of the Founding Fathers. George Washington is given a passing reference or two. However, they are implicated as founders of slavery, a practice which was in place hundreds of years prior to their birth. The U.S. involvement in WWII is reduced to the Japanese internment. Forget D-Day and the war on Hitler’s genocide machine.}

What is proposed is fraud, educational malpractice.

It amazes me, I would never promote David Barton's fabrication of history, yet the left is without hesitation in promoting equal fraud in the classroom - provided it comes from the radical left.

have you read it? i just read period 3: 1754-1800. what you claim, that anyone is implicated as a 'founder' of slavery, isn't in there.
and reading the concepts in period 7: 1890-1945 i can't find you're claim that the entirety of wwii is reduced to japanese internment.

in other words, you're full of shit.

You have a great deal of trouble digesting material and disseminating a cogent response. I cited the Examiner from the OP.

New AP U.S. History Standards revamping of history to support leftist agenda - Little Rock school rankings Examiner.com

And you read WHAT, specifically?

 

[ogibillm]

imagine that. an ap history class that prepares kids not just to regurgitate what's been presented to them in class, but are prepared to become good students of history and able to learn about it once out of the class.

do you not think that students should be able to view historical evidence and use knowledge about the values and bias of the time to help discern the importance and accuracy of that evidence?

in other words, are you against critical thinking?

You think an openly false presentation designed to elicit a sociopolitical outcome is "critical thinking?"

and you have evidence of that where?

Did you even read the cited material?

Obviously not:

{The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download at the College Boardwebsite. What is noticeably missing are references to the majority of the Founding Fathers. George Washington is given a passing reference or two. However, they are implicated as founders of slavery, a practice which was in place hundreds of years prior to their birth. The U.S. involvement in WWII is reduced to the Japanese internment. Forget D-Day and the war on Hitler’s genocide machine.}

What is proposed is fraud, educational malpractice.

It amazes me, I would never promote David Barton's fabrication of history, yet the left is without hesitation in promoting equal fraud in the classroom - provided it comes from the radical left.

have you read it? i just read period 3: 1754-1800. what you claim, that anyone is implicated as a 'founder' of slavery, isn't in there.
and reading the concepts in period 7: 1890-1945 i can't find you're claim that the entirety of wwii is reduced to japanese internment.

in other words, you're full of shit.

You have a great deal of trouble digesting material and disseminating a cogent response. I cited the Examiner from the OP.

New AP U.S. History Standards revamping of history to support leftist agenda - Little Rock school rankings Examiner.com

And you read WHAT, specifically?

i read the linked to outline. if it wasn't your bullshit line, it's still on you for repeating it when the evidence was right there in front of you that countered it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

i read the linked to outline. if it wasn't your bullshit line, it's still on you for repeating it when the evidence was right there in front of you that countered it.

You still don't seem to grasp that it was from the cite of the OP.

You continue to knee jerk whilst never actually grasping what the topic is.