Sanitizing American History

[Uncensored2008]

I see by your post that you are nothing but a leftist tool, and nothing more.

While this is undeniably true, we should not dismiss him. The battle for the soul of America is fought in the mind. We, the men of mind and integrity have historical fact on our side, and we need to use it.

The best reply to the left is unvarnished history. Let's face it, Andrew Jackson, founder of the democratic party - was a shit head. What he did with the "Trail of Tears" is a national tragedy. These things should not be white washed.

The thing with the leftists is that they cannot win. There is so much historical data available that the Zinn types are easily humiliated. Humiliating the revisionists with facts is the best strategy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That a Republican would call his or hers the 'Party of Lincoln' either shows a willful disregard for history, or ignorance.

And I'm not sure which is worse.

So, you were taught that Lincoln was a democrat?

 

[Two Thumbs]

You clearly are an idiot and are harping on one tiny point.

Let me give you some examples of who is omitted: Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin with not even a mention of Martin Luther King, Jr., who was on the forefront of the civil rights movement. It ignores lessons on the Boston Tea Party, Lexington, Jefferson’s First Inaugural Address, Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address…”


That is skipped? These very important people and events are skipped. Our kids are getting short shafted and taght to hate America.

but you're cool with that cuz you found a loop hole in what she said.

The point is that what she said was, at best, inaccurate, and at worst a lie. One of us here is an idiot, anyway...

yea, you

you're lower war to civil disobedience. That's idiotic at best

How about everything that led up to the Revolutionary War? Do you think the actions of the rebels in Boston during the so-called "Boston Tea Party" were the legal actions of people respecting authority? Or were they acts of civil disobedience?

How about the clash at Lexington, and Concord? You do get that that happened a full 4 months before the Colonies "declared" their independence, right? And, then of course, there was that very declaration. You do get that that very declaration was an illegal act, right? The fact that we got away with it, by forcing the British out, doesn't change the fact that it was an illegal act of treason against the legitimate ruling force. Was it a justified act of treason? Yeah. Probably. but, it was treason, none the less. Do you think that having been justified would have prevented the hanging of every single person who signed that document had the colonists lost?

You're just a complete idiot when it comes to how the United States actually came to be, aren't you?

I see by your post that you are nothing but a leftist tool, and nothing more.

Well, one of us is a tool, but it isn't the one who recognized the American Revolution for what it was...

It's called; The Revolutionary War

 

[ogibillm]

The three conservative members of the five-person board want to create a curriculum-review committee to make changes in the College Board’s new framework for Advanced Placement United States History classes. The conservatives claim the course structure contains anti-American bias.

The school board proposal has triggered student walkouts and other protests in several Jefferson County high schools. The students object to the review committee's plan to examine texts and course plans to ensure that they “promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights” and do not “encourage civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law.”

The proposal is the work of Julie Williams, one of the board’s conservative members. On her Facebook page, Williams says the College Board’s new curriculum “rejects the history that has been taught in the country for generations. It has an emphasis on race, gender, class, ethnicity, grievance and American-bashing while simultaneously omitting the most basic structural and philosophical elements considered essential to the understanding of American History for generations. Let me give you some examples of who is omitted: Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin with not even a mention of Martin Luther King, Jr., who was on the forefront of the civil rights movement. It ignores lessons on the Boston Tea Party, Lexington, Jefferson’s First Inaugural Address, Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address…”

Apparently Williams does not consider the Boston Tea Party an instance of “civil disorder.”​

Sanitizing American History

The Irony here, is that my 15-year-old son not only knows that the purpose of studying history is not to "...promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights", while discouraging "...civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law.”, but that, in fact, one of the most important events in American History - The American Revolution - was just that, an act of civil disorder, and disregard for the law.

How is it that a 15-year-old kid has a better understanding of the purpose of History, and comprehension of actual historical events, than do the adults who are supposed to be responsible for setting the curriculum for our kids? And conservatives claim that the intention of progressives to "indoctrinate" our kids...

So teaching historical facts offends you and confuses your 15yo?

Shacking off the reigns of oppression is now considered civil disorder? Based on what? It is what became next is what is considered a civil society, not what came before.

No irony, just dysfunction.

FAR too many people are too emotionally hung up on the notion of conservatism to be able to rationally think about the most basic things.

again, too ironic. the only people, the only real people, pushing that an ideology be taught in history class are the "conservatives" on the school board.

Wrong again! It is those that want to distort history by omission of selected parts rather than teaching ALL of history that are pushing their ideology. These people are not limited to conservatives. More likely, the crowd is heavy on the liberal side.

I am a conservative hawk. I do not believe in teaching creationism that includes a 6000 year old earth and a 6 day creation of the universe. In American history, I believe in teaching about ALL of the happenings, including slavery, displacement of native Americans, segregation, racism, the Constitution and the extremely wise wording of it....along with ALL other happenings that shaped this great country.

The same should apply to world history.

When it comes to natural history, I believe in teaching evolution...because there is ample archeological evidence to show that that's the way it happened.

that's great.
but in this case, the school board wants to inject ideology into. the say as much. you can't pretend otherwise.

Show me some proof of that.

The school board proposal that triggered the walkouts in Jefferson County calls for instructional materials that present positive aspects of the nation and its heritage. It would establish a committee to regularly review texts and course plans, starting with Advanced Placement history, to make sure materials "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights" and don't "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

how do you see that as anything other than an injection of ideology into history classes?

 

[Czernobog]

That a Republican would call his or hers the 'Party of Lincoln' either shows a willful disregard for history, or ignorance.

And I'm not sure which is worse.

So, you were taught that Lincoln was a democrat?

Not at all. However, if you truly believe that the Modern Republican family is even remotely the "Party of Lincoln", or even the party of the last century, then you are delusional:

This is why knowing all of history is more important than learning a version of history that fits an agenda like, "promoting citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights while discouraging civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

 

[depotoo]

You are either from a foreign country or have been taught by those wishing to reduce America's uniqueness and greatness.

So teaching historical facts offends you and confuses your 15yo?

Shacking off the reigns of oppression is now considered civil disorder? Based on what? It is what became next is what is considered a civil society, not what came before.

No irony, just dysfunction.

FAR too many people are too emotionally hung up on the notion of conservatism to be able to rationally think about the most basic things.

again, too ironic. the only people, the only real people, pushing that an ideology be taught in history class are the "conservatives" on the school board.

Wrong again! It is those that want to distort history by omission of selected parts rather than teaching ALL of history that are pushing their ideology. These people are not limited to conservatives. More likely, the crowd is heavy on the liberal side.

I am a conservative hawk. I do not believe in teaching creationism that includes a 6000 year old earth and a 6 day creation of the universe. In American history, I believe in teaching about ALL of the happenings, including slavery, displacement of native Americans, segregation, racism, the Constitution and the extremely wise wording of it....along with ALL other happenings that shaped this great country.

The same should apply to world history.

When it comes to natural history, I believe in teaching evolution...because there is ample archeological evidence to show that that's the way it happened.

that's great.
but in this case, the school board wants to inject ideology into. the say as much. you can't pretend otherwise.

Show me some proof of that.

The school board proposal that triggered the walkouts in Jefferson County calls for instructional materials that present positive aspects of the nation and its heritage. It would establish a committee to regularly review texts and course plans, starting with Advanced Placement history, to make sure materials "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights" and don't "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

how do you see that as anything other than an injection of ideology into history classes?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not at all. However, if you truly believe that the Modern Republican family is even remotely the "Party of Lincoln", or even the party of the last century, then you are delusional:

This is why knowing all of history is more important than learning a version of history that fits an agenda like, "promoting citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights while discouraging civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

One of the big lie campaigns of the left is the fiction that the GOP is anti-Union.. It isn't true today, and never was.

The GOP and any sane person is opposed to GOVERNMENT unions. In a free market, unions are the natural counterbalance to corporations. Both are collective efforts to serve the needs and desires of members.

Public employee unions are a different matter. As Franklin Roosevelt stated;

{All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.}

Franklin D. Roosevelt Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service

This is why it is necessary to learn ALL of history, rather than just that which serves the talking points of ThinkProgress.

 

[Czernobog]

The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download...

You see, that statement, right there, is what's knows as a lie. The APUSH program doesn't include a "complete outline". It is not a syllabus: it is a framework. In other words, it is meant as only a basic guide, and the teachers are not only expected, but encouraged to add whatever they feel is needed to round out the class - including lessons about George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson. However, you are again forgetting that this is an advanced placement class. Do you really think that these are students who need to be taught who George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson were? You don't think these kids already have a pretty good grasp on those historical figures, not to mention most of the other standard figures, and dates in history?

The whole point of AP is to dig a little deeper than your typical high school generic class. The reason is that the students in the AP class are supposed to be a bit beyond that boring shit. Why would you want to bore them with repetitions of facts, and dates that they already know - probably better than you do?

 

[Czernobog]

The point is that what she said was, at best, inaccurate, and at worst a lie. One of us here is an idiot, anyway...

yea, you

you're lower war to civil disobedience. That's idiotic at best

How about everything that led up to the Revolutionary War? Do you think the actions of the rebels in Boston during the so-called "Boston Tea Party" were the legal actions of people respecting authority? Or were they acts of civil disobedience?

How about the clash at Lexington, and Concord? You do get that that happened a full 4 months before the Colonies "declared" their independence, right? And, then of course, there was that very declaration. You do get that that very declaration was an illegal act, right? The fact that we got away with it, by forcing the British out, doesn't change the fact that it was an illegal act of treason against the legitimate ruling force. Was it a justified act of treason? Yeah. Probably. but, it was treason, none the less. Do you think that having been justified would have prevented the hanging of every single person who signed that document had the colonists lost?

You're just a complete idiot when it comes to how the United States actually came to be, aren't you?

I see by your post that you are nothing but a leftist tool, and nothing more.

Well, one of us is a tool, but it isn't the one who recognized the American Revolution for what it was...

It's called; The Revolutionary War

Yes. Because we won. I'll guarantee that if we hadn't, all of the signers of the Declaration would have been hanged, and it would have been called "The traitorous rebellion of the colonies of 1754".

 

[ogibillm]

You are either from a foreign country or have been taught by those wishing to reduce America's uniqueness and greatness.

again, too ironic. the only people, the only real people, pushing that an ideology be taught in history class are the "conservatives" on the school board.

Wrong again! It is those that want to distort history by omission of selected parts rather than teaching ALL of history that are pushing their ideology. These people are not limited to conservatives. More likely, the crowd is heavy on the liberal side.

I am a conservative hawk. I do not believe in teaching creationism that includes a 6000 year old earth and a 6 day creation of the universe. In American history, I believe in teaching about ALL of the happenings, including slavery, displacement of native Americans, segregation, racism, the Constitution and the extremely wise wording of it....along with ALL other happenings that shaped this great country.

The same should apply to world history.

When it comes to natural history, I believe in teaching evolution...because there is ample archeological evidence to show that that's the way it happened.

that's great.
but in this case, the school board wants to inject ideology into. the say as much. you can't pretend otherwise.

Show me some proof of that.

The school board proposal that triggered the walkouts in Jefferson County calls for instructional materials that present positive aspects of the nation and its heritage. It would establish a committee to regularly review texts and course plans, starting with Advanced Placement history, to make sure materials "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights" and don't "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

how do you see that as anything other than an injection of ideology into history classes?

you didn't answer the question - how is calling for the instruction of history in such a way that it instills certain values anything other than inserting ideology into history class?

 

[ogibillm]

The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download...

You see, that statement, right there, is what's knows as a lie. The APUSH program doesn't include a "complete outline". It is not a syllabus: it is a framework. In other words, it is meant as only a basic guide, and the teachers are not only expected, but encouraged to add whatever they feel is needed to round out the class - including lessons about George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson. However, you are again forgetting that this is an advanced placement class. Do you really think that these are students who need to be taught who George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson were? You don't think these kids already have a pretty good grasp on those historical figures, not to mention most of the other standard figures, and dates in history?

The whole point of AP is to dig a little deeper than your typical high school generic class. The reason is that the students in the AP class are supposed to be a bit beyond that boring shit. Why would you want to bore them with repetitions of facts, and dates that they already know - probably better than you do?

a fairly well written response to the erroneous claims made about the guidelines
JeffCo School Board Watch 10 14 Post 8211 Julie Williams Are You Listening Yet

 

[Uncensored2008]

The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download...

You see, that statement, right there, is what's knows as a lie. The APUSH program doesn't include a "complete outline". It is not a syllabus: it is a framework. In other words, it is meant as only a basic guide, and the teachers are not only expected, but encouraged to add whatever they feel is needed to round out the class - including lessons about George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson. However, you are again forgetting that this is an advanced placement class. Do you really think that these are students who need to be taught who George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson were? You don't think these kids already have a pretty good grasp on those historical figures, not to mention most of the other standard figures, and dates in history?

The whole point of AP is to dig a little deeper than your typical high school generic class. The reason is that the students in the AP class are supposed to be a bit beyond that boring shit. Why would you want to bore them with repetitions of facts, and dates that they already know - probably better than you do?

Oh, they're not an outline, they are merely a framework..

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously dude, you fail to grasp that a frawework is far more developed than a simple outline?

You're dismissed.

 

[Czernobog]

Not at all. However, if you truly believe that the Modern Republican family is even remotely the "Party of Lincoln", or even the party of the last century, then you are delusional:

This is why knowing all of history is more important than learning a version of history that fits an agenda like, "promoting citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect of authority and respect for individual rights while discouraging civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

One of the big lie campaigns of the left is the fiction that the GOP is anti-Union.. It isn't true today, and never was.

You really believe that lie? Really??? So, the party that during the last presidential election held as their Presidential platform the promise that a Republican President would make a "national Right-to-Work" law isn't anti-union? Really? The party that calls for "card checks" be banned. Since the 1930's, the National Labor Relations Board has allowed, employers to grant union recognition once a majority of workers sign cards saying they want to to join a union. The Republican party wants to end that. But, they aren't anti-union. They consistantly support policies that make it harder for unions to exist, to gain new members, to enter into new fields to protect workers in those fields, or to even keep the memberships that they have, but Republicans are not anti-union.

You don't really expect anyone to be stupid enough to believe that, do you?

 

[Czernobog]

The complete outline for AP U.S. History is available for download...

You see, that statement, right there, is what's knows as a lie. The APUSH program doesn't include a "complete outline". It is not a syllabus: it is a framework. In other words, it is meant as only a basic guide, and the teachers are not only expected, but encouraged to add whatever they feel is needed to round out the class - including lessons about George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson. However, you are again forgetting that this is an advanced placement class. Do you really think that these are students who need to be taught who George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson were? You don't think these kids already have a pretty good grasp on those historical figures, not to mention most of the other standard figures, and dates in history?

The whole point of AP is to dig a little deeper than your typical high school generic class. The reason is that the students in the AP class are supposed to be a bit beyond that boring shit. Why would you want to bore them with repetitions of facts, and dates that they already know - probably better than you do?

Oh, they're not an outline, they are merely a framework..

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously dude, you fail to grasp that a frawework is far more developed than a simple outline?

You're dismissed.

You didn't say simple outline, you said complete outline, implying that it was a syllabus of the expected class, and that is simply not what it is. Sorry, if you got caught in your bullshit.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You really believe that lie? Really???

The big lie of the democrats? No, I'm pretty well immune to partisan bullshit.

So, the party that during the last presidential election held as their Presidential platform the promise that a Republican President would make a "national Right-to-Work" law isn't anti-union? Really?

Liberty is the greatest threat to leftism, you fight it with every fiber of your being.

Right to work is no threat to legitimate unions. IF you must use force and coercion, then you do not have a legitimate union. That democrats oppose freedom is well know.

The party that calls for "card checks" be banned. Since the 1930's, the National Labor Relations Board has allowed, employers to grant union recognition once a majority of workers sign cards saying they want to to join a union. The Republican party wants to end that. But, they aren't anti-union. They consistantly support policies that make it harder for unions to exist, to gain new members, to enter into new fields to protect workers in those fields, or to even keep the memberships that they have, but Republicans are not anti-union.

You don't really expect anyone to be stupid enough to believe that, do you?

So you support organized crime?

No surprise. The idea that assault and intimidation are supported by leftists is no surprise.

 

[Czernobog]

So, the party that during the last presidential election held as their Presidential platform the promise that a Republican President would make a "national Right-to-Work" law isn't anti-union? Really?

Liberty is the greatest threat to leftism, you fight it with every fiber of your being.

Right to work is no threat to legitimate unions. IF you must use force and coercion, then you do not have a legitimate union. That democrats oppose freedom is well know.

Except "Right to work" isn't about liberty. It is a misnamed legislative agenda that should be called "right to hire", designed to make it easier for employers to hire, fire, and take advantage of employees without "union interference". That isn't a pro-union position;it's pro-corporatist, and anti-union.

The party that calls for "card checks" be banned. Since the 1930's, the National Labor Relations Board has allowed, employers to grant union recognition once a majority of workers sign cards saying they want to to join a union. The Republican party wants to end that. But, they aren't anti-union. They consistantly support policies that make it harder for unions to exist, to gain new members, to enter into new fields to protect workers in those fields, or to even keep the memberships that they have, but Republicans are not anti-union.

You don't really expect anyone to be stupid enough to believe that, do you?

So you support organized crime?

No surprise. The idea that assault and intimidation are supported by leftists is no surprise.

So, now supporting unions equals supporting organized crime? LMFAO! And this guy claims that Republicans aren't "anti-union".

You are dismissed.

 

[depotoo]

They are asking only for those values that this country was founded on. To remove those is removing the very foundation of what the US stands for. If it is offensive, then just maybe, one needs to look to other country's that more mimic their own set of values. To try to remove them because you don't care for them, means you want something that was not intended, and means as a citizen, if you are, you are not willing to live by that which has been given to you, and we that take our citizenship and what its founders held dear, should not have to suffer at your hands..

Renounce it, and find a country that more resembles your own.

You are either from a foreign country or have been taught by those wishing to reduce America's uniqueness and greatness.

Wrong again! It is those that want to distort history by omission of selected parts rather than teaching ALL of history that are pushing their ideology. These people are not limited to conservatives. More likely, the crowd is heavy on the liberal side.

I am a conservative hawk. I do not believe in teaching creationism that includes a 6000 year old earth and a 6 day creation of the universe. In American history, I believe in teaching about ALL of the happenings, including slavery, displacement of native Americans, segregation, racism, the Constitution and the extremely wise wording of it....along with ALL other happenings that shaped this great country.

The same should apply to world history.

When it comes to natural history, I believe in teaching evolution...because there is ample archeological evidence to show that that's the way it happened.

that's great.
but in this case, the school board wants to inject ideology into. the say as much. you can't pretend otherwise.

Show me some proof of that.

The school board proposal that triggered the walkouts in Jefferson County calls for instructional materials that present positive aspects of the nation and its heritage. It would establish a committee to regularly review texts and course plans, starting with Advanced Placement history, to make sure materials "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights" and don't "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

how do you see that as anything other than an injection of ideology into history classes?

you didn't answer the question - how is calling for the instruction of history in such a way that it instills certain values anything other than inserting ideology into history class?

 

[asaratis]

So teaching historical facts offends you and confuses your 15yo?

Shacking off the reigns of oppression is now considered civil disorder? Based on what? It is what became next is what is considered a civil society, not what came before.

No irony, just dysfunction.

FAR too many people are too emotionally hung up on the notion of conservatism to be able to rationally think about the most basic things.

again, too ironic. the only people, the only real people, pushing that an ideology be taught in history class are the "conservatives" on the school board.

Wrong again! It is those that want to distort history by omission of selected parts rather than teaching ALL of history that are pushing their ideology. These people are not limited to conservatives. More likely, the crowd is heavy on the liberal side.

I am a conservative hawk. I do not believe in teaching creationism that includes a 6000 year old earth and a 6 day creation of the universe. In American history, I believe in teaching about ALL of the happenings, including slavery, displacement of native Americans, segregation, racism, the Constitution and the extremely wise wording of it....along with ALL other happenings that shaped this great country.

The same should apply to world history.

When it comes to natural history, I believe in teaching evolution...because there is ample archeological evidence to show that that's the way it happened.

that's great.
but in this case, the school board wants to inject ideology into. the say as much. you can't pretend otherwise.

Show me some proof of that.

The school board proposal that triggered the walkouts in Jefferson County calls for instructional materials that present positive aspects of the nation and its heritage. It would establish a committee to regularly review texts and course plans, starting with Advanced Placement history, to make sure materials "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights" and don't "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law."

how do you see that as anything other than an injection of ideology into history classes?

What is described in your quoted paragraph is not a new ideology. It is the basis upon which this country was founded.

 

[Czernobog]

What is described in your quoted paragraph is not a new ideology. It is the basis upon which this country was founded.

It doesn't matter whether it is new, or old. The purpose of a History class is not to promote an ideology, period. It is to teach history. One's ideology should be informed by history, not by someone's agenda using cherry-picked historical events to create a narrative.

 

[asaratis]

What is described in your quoted paragraph is not a new ideology. It is the basis upon which this country was founded.

It doesn't matter whether it is new, or old. The purpose of a History class is not to promote an ideology, period. It is to teach history. One's ideology should be informed by history, not by someone's agenda using cherry-picked historical events to create a narrative.

Then to teach HISTORY, you don't LEAVE OUT ANYTHING! That's what Julie Williams is objecting to. Teach it all. It is the AP that's trying to insert a new ideology in American History.