Science Truth, and Religion

[Czernobog]

Ahhh...there it is...

This is statement 'YOU' make is because of your limitations, your mind cannot contain truth and the truth is way beyond your ability to comprehend when it is given to you. If you can't get to first base you will not be able to get to second or the third. You seem to think for some reason you have the ability to jump past that all and get to where home base is. A child can understand that can you?

That's rich. You believe in magic and fairy tales, and you are going to talk to me like I'm the child?

I'm not calling you a child, but I do think you are bigoted and that is either due to a mental deficiency, or a infantile view of the world based on ignorance.

I'm bigoted because I prefer to live in a world of rationality, and reason, instead of myth, and baseless belief? Okay.

No, you're bigoted because you hate people of faith. I am an agnostic. I don't believe in God, nor do I believe there is no God. There simply is no evidence either way. However, I treat atheists (who are reasonable and respectful) and those of faith (who are likewise reasonable and respectful) with respect. I don't denigrate anyone for their belief, or lack thereof. It is only the bigots (from either side of the argument) who do that. Thus, you are a bigot.

I don't hate anyone. That is Ding's thing.

 

[BreezeWood]

"Sun" meaning congregation of righteousness (hosts of heaven created to assist humans in overcoming). Whilst 'sun' is referring generally to illicit worship. "Moon", 'moon' is what old coinage/money/wealth again an un-righteous aspect and a righteous aspect. Do some homework.

Ahhh...there it is...

While the religion has gotten a bit old and stale; the tap dancing that the contemporary enthusiasts engage in has never been better.

Trust me, anyone with an IQ of greater than 100 will see it the other way around. Clearly you guys are out of your league. You do not have the intellect or knowledge to hold this discussion. You can try all of your juvenile tricks but they will fail and at the end of the day you will run away most likely taking the beating I give you out on someone you love.

Yeah, chief... I'm sure that's it. Go with that...

I don't need to. You can see it for yourself. Ok, so now it is time to educate you on the Tree of Knowledge. Man is the only animal who possess the ability to know right from wrong; good from evil. No other animal has this ability. So original sin is not eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Original sin is the fact that we possess the capability to do both; to have knowledge of both good and evil.

.

Man is the only animal who possess the ability to know right from wrong; good from evil. No other animal has this ability.

all beings know right from wrong the "sin" is to think otherwise.

 

[Vastator]

Good, and evil are mental constructs of men; and there is no such thing as sin. Class dismissed.

No, given the ability of man to think rationally it is definitely evil to murder someone purely for your pleasure. It is clearly evil to rape a child or a woman purely for your pleasure. So, while the word "evil" and it's definition are indeed constructs of man, they actually have described evil, and it's actions.

If it were definitely evil; it would bring no pleasure. It's pleasurable for one; not so much for the other. Each participant places a value on the act based on their own desired outcome.

That's certainly a twisted view of the world. I will resort to the "reasonable man" standard of law, and the English language. Which is diametrically opposed to yours. You sound like good old paint my house.

No no chief. You ain't jumping ship just yet. Flip flop your ass back in here.
If you want to wax "standard of law", that's fine. We can do that. But I feel the need to remind you that we weren't discussing "law". We were discussing the non-existence of good,evil, and sin.

 

[Czernobog]

Good, and evil are mental constructs of men; and there is no such thing as sin. Class dismissed.

No, given the ability of man to think rationally it is definitely evil to murder someone purely for your pleasure. It is clearly evil to rape a child or a woman purely for your pleasure. So, while the word "evil" and it's definition are indeed constructs of man, they actually have described evil, and it's actions.

Sorry, but murder is not rationally prohibitive because it is "evil"; it is prohibitive, because of self-preservation. When I am angry,. I want to lash out. I want to hurt you. If my rage is strong enough, I even want to kill you.

However, If I insist that it is okay for me to kill you, then I must agree that it is also okay for you to kill me. Common sense. Well, I don't want to be killed. So, I agree to a simple set of rules. No one gets to kill anyone; not because of some imaginary ethical code handed down "from on high", but out of simple self-preservation.

How is it self preservation to murder a child? Your argument falls flat on its ass dude. You are not equipped to discuss this subject if that is the best you can come up with.

You might wanna go back and re-read my post for comprehension. You clearly missed it..

No, I got it, you ignored my point. People DO murder children. They do it for their pleasure. Thus, yet again, your argument fails.

yes, people break the law. I would dispute your characterisation that it solely for pleasure, and it does nothing to dispute my point.

 

[westwall]

Good, and evil are mental constructs of men; and there is no such thing as sin. Class dismissed.

No, given the ability of man to think rationally it is definitely evil to murder someone purely for your pleasure. It is clearly evil to rape a child or a woman purely for your pleasure. So, while the word "evil" and it's definition are indeed constructs of man, they actually have described evil, and it's actions.

If it were definitely evil; it would bring no pleasure. It's pleasurable for one; not so much for the other. Each participant places a value on the act based on their own desired outcome.

That's certainly a twisted view of the world. I will resort to the "reasonable man" standard of law, and the English language. Which is diametrically opposed to yours. You sound like good old paint my house.

No no chief. You ain't jumping ship just yet. Flip flop your ass back in here.
If you want to wax "standard of law", that's fine. We can do that. But I feel the need to remind you that we weren't discussing "law". We were discussing the non-existence of good,evil, and sin.

You choose to use a definition that is far, far out of the mainstream. According to your view of the world evil can't exist. If it couldn't it wouldn't, it however does exist. And has existed for as long as man has been man.

 

[westwall]

No, given the ability of man to think rationally it is definitely evil to murder someone purely for your pleasure. It is clearly evil to rape a child or a woman purely for your pleasure. So, while the word "evil" and it's definition are indeed constructs of man, they actually have described evil, and it's actions.

Sorry, but murder is not rationally prohibitive because it is "evil"; it is prohibitive, because of self-preservation. When I am angry,. I want to lash out. I want to hurt you. If my rage is strong enough, I even want to kill you.

However, If I insist that it is okay for me to kill you, then I must agree that it is also okay for you to kill me. Common sense. Well, I don't want to be killed. So, I agree to a simple set of rules. No one gets to kill anyone; not because of some imaginary ethical code handed down "from on high", but out of simple self-preservation.

How is it self preservation to murder a child? Your argument falls flat on its ass dude. You are not equipped to discuss this subject if that is the best you can come up with.

You might wanna go back and re-read my post for comprehension. You clearly missed it..

No, I got it, you ignored my point. People DO murder children. They do it for their pleasure. Thus, yet again, your argument fails.

yes, people break the law. I would dispute your characterisation that it solely for pleasure, and it does nothing to dispute my point.

I suggest you look at sociopaths and their behavior before you make such an ignorant statement.

 

[RodISHI]

They have? Please post up some scientific facts that have proven the bible to be false. I personally think the bible is a very accurate source for the history of the middle eastern areas from over 4,000 years ago. Archaeological work done in the region has shown the bible to be remarkably accurate. So, by all means plese tell us the scientific facts that you claim nullify actual archaeological work done in the area.

How about we start with an easy one: Joshua 10:13 - "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar."

Science has proven that for that to occur, would, literally, require the Earth to abruptly stop spinning on its axis, flinging everything - atmosphere, plants, animals, and us - into space. It is a scientific impossibility. A lie. And the Bible is full of such lies.

"Sun" meaning congregation of righteousness (hosts of heaven created to assist humans in overcoming). Whilst 'sun' is referring generally to illicit worship. "Moon", 'moon' is what old coinage/money/wealth again an un-righteous aspect and a righteous aspect. Do some homework.

Ahhh...there it is...

This is statement 'YOU' make is because of your limitations, your mind cannot contain truth and the truth is way beyond your ability to comprehend when it is given to you. If you can't get to first base you will not be able to get to second or the third. You seem to think for some reason you have the ability to jump past that all and get to where home base is. A child can understand that can you?

Even a child would realize that he starts standing on home base; And effectively has to go nowhere, in order to get to where that place is.

Thank you as you just showed that if one is serious about learning and understanding that the written words of that whom came before was planted into the earth by the Spirit. It proves its self if one has the ability to take it ALL in.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

[RodISHI]

They have? Please post up some scientific facts that have proven the bible to be false. I personally think the bible is a very accurate source for the history of the middle eastern areas from over 4,000 years ago. Archaeological work done in the region has shown the bible to be remarkably accurate. So, by all means plese tell us the scientific facts that you claim nullify actual archaeological work done in the area.

How about we start with an easy one: Joshua 10:13 - "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar."

Science has proven that for that to occur, would, literally, require the Earth to abruptly stop spinning on its axis, flinging everything - atmosphere, plants, animals, and us - into space. It is a scientific impossibility. A lie. And the Bible is full of such lies.

"Sun" meaning congregation of righteousness (hosts of heaven created to assist humans in overcoming). Whilst 'sun' is referring generally to illicit worship. "Moon", 'moon' is what old coinage/money/wealth again an un-righteous aspect and a righteous aspect. Do some homework.

Ahhh...there it is...

This is statement 'YOU' make is because of your limitations, your mind cannot contain truth and the truth is way beyond your ability to comprehend when it is given to you. If you can't get to first base you will not be able to get to second or the third. You seem to think for some reason you have the ability to jump past that all and get to where home base is. A child can understand that can you?

That's rich. You believe in magic and fairy tales, and you are going to talk to me like I'm the child?

I'm not sure you have made that "child" status yet

 

[Vastator]

Good, and evil are mental constructs of men; and there is no such thing as sin. Class dismissed.

No, given the ability of man to think rationally it is definitely evil to murder someone purely for your pleasure. It is clearly evil to rape a child or a woman purely for your pleasure. So, while the word "evil" and it's definition are indeed constructs of man, they actually have described evil, and it's actions.

If it were definitely evil; it would bring no pleasure. It's pleasurable for one; not so much for the other. Each participant places a value on the act based on their own desired outcome.

That's certainly a twisted view of the world. I will resort to the "reasonable man" standard of law, and the English language. Which is diametrically opposed to yours. You sound like good old paint my house.

No no chief. You ain't jumping ship just yet. Flip flop your ass back in here.
If you want to wax "standard of law", that's fine. We can do that. But I feel the need to remind you that we weren't discussing "law". We were discussing the non-existence of good,evil, and sin.

You choose to use a definition that is far, far out of the mainstream. According to your view of the world evil can't exist. If it couldn't it wouldn't, it however does exist. And has existed for as long as man has been man.

But it doesn't exist. It's a measure of value that an individual wishes to ascribe to an act or outcome. And as such is highly flexible, and subjective. In fact. The exact same act/outcome can be simultaneously labeled "evil", by one witness, and/or participant; and "good" by another.

 

[westwall]

No, given the ability of man to think rationally it is definitely evil to murder someone purely for your pleasure. It is clearly evil to rape a child or a woman purely for your pleasure. So, while the word "evil" and it's definition are indeed constructs of man, they actually have described evil, and it's actions.

If it were definitely evil; it would bring no pleasure. It's pleasurable for one; not so much for the other. Each participant places a value on the act based on their own desired outcome.

That's certainly a twisted view of the world. I will resort to the "reasonable man" standard of law, and the English language. Which is diametrically opposed to yours. You sound like good old paint my house.

No no chief. You ain't jumping ship just yet. Flip flop your ass back in here.
If you want to wax "standard of law", that's fine. We can do that. But I feel the need to remind you that we weren't discussing "law". We were discussing the non-existence of good,evil, and sin.

You choose to use a definition that is far, far out of the mainstream. According to your view of the world evil can't exist. If it couldn't it wouldn't, it however does exist. And has existed for as long as man has been man.

But it doesn't exist. It's a measure of value that an individual wishes to ascribe to an act or outcome. And as such is highly flexible, and subjective. In fact. The exact same act/outcome can be simultaneously labeled "evil", by one witness, and/or participant; and "good" by another.

You allow the pleasure of one to void the opinion of the victim. In YOUR opinion, there can be no evil unless both feel bad. That is a perversion of the English language.

 

[Czernobog]

Sorry, but murder is not rationally prohibitive because it is "evil"; it is prohibitive, because of self-preservation. When I am angry,. I want to lash out. I want to hurt you. If my rage is strong enough, I even want to kill you.

However, If I insist that it is okay for me to kill you, then I must agree that it is also okay for you to kill me. Common sense. Well, I don't want to be killed. So, I agree to a simple set of rules. No one gets to kill anyone; not because of some imaginary ethical code handed down "from on high", but out of simple self-preservation.

How is it self preservation to murder a child? Your argument falls flat on its ass dude. You are not equipped to discuss this subject if that is the best you can come up with.

You might wanna go back and re-read my post for comprehension. You clearly missed it..

No, I got it, you ignored my point. People DO murder children. They do it for their pleasure. Thus, yet again, your argument fails.

yes, people break the law. I would dispute your characterisation that it solely for pleasure, and it does nothing to dispute my point.

I suggest you look at sociopaths and their behavior before you make such an ignorant statement.

Soooo...you think that the mentally ill, and unbalanced are evil? Really???? And you call me bigoted?!? Huh...

 

[ding]

Good, and evil are mental constructs of men; and there is no such thing as sin. Class dismissed.

There is no such thing as evil. Evil is the absence of good just as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light. Man does not do evil for evil's sake, he does it for the sake of his own good. Sin is anything which distances us from God who is goodness so we can say that sin is anything which separates us from good. There are moral laws just as there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequences are immediate. Not so for moral laws. Many times the consequences are not immediately felt but given enough time the consequences will be realized one way or another. In effect providing the feedback necessary to correct failed behaviors. It is through these outcomes that we can know that good and evil are not mental constructs of men but universal moral laws based upon virtue which is the greatest organizing principle among men and leads to harmony and peace in a society. A society with no virtue will become chaotic and disjointed. In summary, successful behaviors lead to success and failed behavior lead to failure. Intellectually dead atheists will dismiss these self evident truths and see themselves as superior all the while basing their beliefs on simplistic ideals which are not supported by logic or reason and cannot be articulated in more than one sentence as you have just done. Thus proving your intellectual inferiority to someone who you dismiss as a fairy tale believer. Yet your ego will know the truth and demand a payment for the beat down it just took.

 

[Vastator]

If it were definitely evil; it would bring no pleasure. It's pleasurable for one; not so much for the other. Each participant places a value on the act based on their own desired outcome.

That's certainly a twisted view of the world. I will resort to the "reasonable man" standard of law, and the English language. Which is diametrically opposed to yours. You sound like good old paint my house.

No no chief. You ain't jumping ship just yet. Flip flop your ass back in here.
If you want to wax "standard of law", that's fine. We can do that. But I feel the need to remind you that we weren't discussing "law". We were discussing the non-existence of good,evil, and sin.

You choose to use a definition that is far, far out of the mainstream. According to your view of the world evil can't exist. If it couldn't it wouldn't, it however does exist. And has existed for as long as man has been man.

But it doesn't exist. It's a measure of value that an individual wishes to ascribe to an act or outcome. And as such is highly flexible, and subjective. In fact. The exact same act/outcome can be simultaneously labeled "evil", by one witness, and/or participant; and "good" by another.

You allow the pleasure of one to void the opinion of the victim. In YOUR opinion, there can be no evil unless both feel bad. That is a perversion of the English language.

No, I say there "is" no "evil" ; or both would feel bad. Evil simply doesn't exist, outside of personal assessment. While you and I may agree that it's "bad" to kill person "X"; another person might find that to be great! It's a matter of perspective. Not a matter of fact.

 

[westwall]

How is it self preservation to murder a child? Your argument falls flat on its ass dude. You are not equipped to discuss this subject if that is the best you can come up with.

You might wanna go back and re-read my post for comprehension. You clearly missed it..

No, I got it, you ignored my point. People DO murder children. They do it for their pleasure. Thus, yet again, your argument fails.

yes, people break the law. I would dispute your characterisation that it solely for pleasure, and it does nothing to dispute my point.

I suggest you look at sociopaths and their behavior before you make such an ignorant statement.

Soooo...you think that the mentally ill, and unbalanced are evil? Really???? And you call me bigoted?!? Huh...

A sociopath has the ability to CHOOSE. They simply don't care that their victim is suffering. They only care about their pleasure. There are high functioning sociopaths out there who are able to choose to not harm people, they get their jollies in other ways, but it is always a choice. Like I said, you look up definitions on wiki but you don't understand them. I'm a PhD geologist, and my wife is a PhD psychologist. We speak about science AS scientists.

 

[Czernobog]

How about we start with an easy one: Joshua 10:13 - "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar."

Science has proven that for that to occur, would, literally, require the Earth to abruptly stop spinning on its axis, flinging everything - atmosphere, plants, animals, and us - into space. It is a scientific impossibility. A lie. And the Bible is full of such lies.

"Sun" meaning congregation of righteousness (hosts of heaven created to assist humans in overcoming). Whilst 'sun' is referring generally to illicit worship. "Moon", 'moon' is what old coinage/money/wealth again an un-righteous aspect and a righteous aspect. Do some homework.

Ahhh...there it is...

This is statement 'YOU' make is because of your limitations, your mind cannot contain truth and the truth is way beyond your ability to comprehend when it is given to you. If you can't get to first base you will not be able to get to second or the third. You seem to think for some reason you have the ability to jump past that all and get to where home base is. A child can understand that can you?

That's rich. You believe in magic and fairy tales, and you are going to talk to me like I'm the child?

I'm not sure you have made that "child" status yet

Well, I give the opinion of the guy who believes in magic, and myths, and relies on insults all the attention it deserves.

 

[Czernobog]

You might wanna go back and re-read my post for comprehension. You clearly missed it..

No, I got it, you ignored my point. People DO murder children. They do it for their pleasure. Thus, yet again, your argument fails.

yes, people break the law. I would dispute your characterisation that it solely for pleasure, and it does nothing to dispute my point.

I suggest you look at sociopaths and their behavior before you make such an ignorant statement.

Soooo...you think that the mentally ill, and unbalanced are evil? Really???? And you call me bigoted?!? Huh...

A sociopath has the ability to CHOOSE. They simply don't care that their victim is suffering. They only care about their pleasure. There are high functioning sociopaths out there who are able to choose to not harm people, they get their jollies in other ways, but it is always a choice. Like I said, you look up definitions on wiki but you don't understand them. I'm a PhD geologist, and my wife is a PhD psychologist. We speak about science AS scientists.

And as one PhD to another you also make a lot of presumptions about others. Before you ask, psychiatry.

 

[RodISHI]

"Sun" meaning congregation of righteousness (hosts of heaven created to assist humans in overcoming). Whilst 'sun' is referring generally to illicit worship. "Moon", 'moon' is what old coinage/money/wealth again an un-righteous aspect and a righteous aspect. Do some homework.

Ahhh...there it is...

This is statement 'YOU' make is because of your limitations, your mind cannot contain truth and the truth is way beyond your ability to comprehend when it is given to you. If you can't get to first base you will not be able to get to second or the third. You seem to think for some reason you have the ability to jump past that all and get to where home base is. A child can understand that can you?

That's rich. You believe in magic and fairy tales, and you are going to talk to me like I'm the child?

I'm not sure you have made that "child" status yet

Well, I give the opinion of the guy who believes in magic, and myths, and relies on insults all the attention it deserves.

You are the one that cannot perceive what a Spirit is. That is not an insult just a fact.

"Pot meet kettle".

 

[ding]

They have? Please post up some scientific facts that have proven the bible to be false. I personally think the bible is a very accurate source for the history of the middle eastern areas from over 4,000 years ago. Archaeological work done in the region has shown the bible to be remarkably accurate. So, by all means plese tell us the scientific facts that you claim nullify actual archaeological work done in the area.

How about we start with an easy one: Joshua 10:13 - "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar."

Science has proven that for that to occur, would, literally, require the Earth to abruptly stop spinning on its axis, flinging everything - atmosphere, plants, animals, and us - into space. It is a scientific impossibility. A lie. And the Bible is full of such lies.

"Sun" meaning congregation of righteousness (hosts of heaven created to assist humans in overcoming). Whilst 'sun' is referring generally to illicit worship. "Moon", 'moon' is what old coinage/money/wealth again an un-righteous aspect and a righteous aspect. Do some homework.

Ahhh...there it is...

This is statement 'YOU' make is because of your limitations, your mind cannot contain truth and the truth is way beyond your ability to comprehend when it is given to you. If you can't get to first base you will not be able to get to second or the third. You seem to think for some reason you have the ability to jump past that all and get to where home base is. A child can understand that can you?

That's rich. You believe in magic and fairy tales, and you are going to talk to me like I'm the child?

You do behave like one most of the time. You're non-belief system has made you intellectually dead. You believe you practice critical thinking when in reality you practice critical theory. You never test your beliefs you only confirm your biases. You arrive at what you believe by criticizing what you don't believe. I on the other hand do practice critical thinking which is the practice of testing and challenging what you do believe for validity and gaps. My brain has been sharpened as I have analyzed every angle of my belief system looking for flaws and weaknesses. Yours has become dulled by the irrational use of the Cultural Marxist practice of critical theory. That is why I destroy every argument you have ever made and expose the flaws of your own intellectually dead belief system. You are exactly like a child to me and I treat you like one.

 

[Czernobog]

Ahhh...there it is...

This is statement 'YOU' make is because of your limitations, your mind cannot contain truth and the truth is way beyond your ability to comprehend when it is given to you. If you can't get to first base you will not be able to get to second or the third. You seem to think for some reason you have the ability to jump past that all and get to where home base is. A child can understand that can you?

That's rich. You believe in magic and fairy tales, and you are going to talk to me like I'm the child?

I'm not sure you have made that "child" status yet

Well, I give the opinion of the guy who believes in magic, and myths, and relies on insults all the attention it deserves.

You are the one that cannot perceive what a Spirit is. That is not an insult just a fact.

"Pot meet kettle".

Now your just spewing gibberish.

 

[westwall]

No, I got it, you ignored my point. People DO murder children. They do it for their pleasure. Thus, yet again, your argument fails.

yes, people break the law. I would dispute your characterisation that it solely for pleasure, and it does nothing to dispute my point.

I suggest you look at sociopaths and their behavior before you make such an ignorant statement.

Soooo...you think that the mentally ill, and unbalanced are evil? Really???? And you call me bigoted?!? Huh...

A sociopath has the ability to CHOOSE. They simply don't care that their victim is suffering. They only care about their pleasure. There are high functioning sociopaths out there who are able to choose to not harm people, they get their jollies in other ways, but it is always a choice. Like I said, you look up definitions on wiki but you don't understand them. I'm a PhD geologist, and my wife is a PhD psychologist. We speak about science AS scientists.

And as one PhD to another you also make a lot of presumptions about others. Before you ask, psychiatry.

Then, as an MD how is it that don't understand sociopathic behavior? Your claim is refuted by your lack of knowledge.