Scientists and warnings.

[nodoginnafight]

Read my post and you will see that I responded to your demand for honesty in debate. The science is not settled, and the deniers are not anti-science. They are practical.

Otherwise, I have no disagreement with your argument.

Ok, then show me my post where I said Climate Change is "settled science" as you claimed.
Ya know, just for HONESTY'S sake ...

When you stated earlier, "If the naysayers would stop the ignorant denials...", one could take away that you thought the science was settled. Clarity means everything when we have to define what the word "is", is these days.

LOL - well put. And thanks for the opportunity to clarify. I understand how one could logically draw that conclusion - I should have been more clear but I didn't know it was going to become an issue.

I believe that there is really no such thing as "settled science." We have explanations that work and explanations that don't work - it doesn't account for what the wealth of information that we do not have will tell us.

The denials that I feel are ignorant are "international scientific conspiracy", "the consensus is a myth", "it was unseasonably cold here yesterday - so much for global warming", and "real science doesn't deal in probabilities" type stuff. I do believe there is room for legitimate debate, but that is largely debate on magnitude, remediation, the proportion of human impact, etc ...

I realize that intelligent, honest people can look at the same set of facts and draw a different conclusion. But I also understand that those who are living handsomely off the status quo are doing everything they can to try to muddy the waters and create a disproportionate level doubt just because they don't to get thrown off the gravy train.

 

[westwall]

Here in the Pacific Northwest, we have just seen a tragedy concerning a landslide, predicted by scientists, and ignored by all that could have done something to lessen the toll. Politically not expediant to make people uncomfortable. Until they start dieing from that sick set of mind.

Now we have the vast majority of scientists from all over the world stating that global warming is a clear and present danger, one that is already creating problems. And they will be damned by the very same kind of people that let others die for political expediancy.

I see you finally posted a climate change thread where it belongs....namely POLITICS. The global warming scientists abandoned true scientific enquiry years ago. Now everything they say is based on how much power they can accrue to themselves and how much money they can liberate from the people's pockets.

So nice of you to finally acknowledge that fact.

Now, to your assertion regarding the landslide, yes, it was predicted. Anyone with a brain could see it was going to happen...it is after all a natural process (look up "mass wasting" for those who wish to know more) but the only way to deal with a situation like that is to move the people.

The same thing happened in La Conchita south of Carpinteria in Santa Barbara County back in 2005. Once again there was ample warning that the ground was unstable...hell, just looking at the terrain should have been a clue, but the people loved their community and refused to leave.

To exacerbate the situation a company began a avocado and citrus orchard on top of the bluff in the 1970's if my memory serves. Tragically the landslide killed a bunch of people and they sued the ranch which IIRC settled by giving the plaintiffs basically everything plus some cash.

More importantly though, they sued the county and lost. They then lost their appeal because the county was able to show that the people had been extensively warned and the courts found that any "reasonable person" should have had the sense to stay away from La Conchita.

So, you see it is never a simple thing, no matter how much you like to dream it is....

Edit: I found some pictures of the La Conchita disaster so you can see the similarities...

\

 

[Mustang]

Mustang - I'm not questioning the science. But what are we going to do?
The worst case scenario - if we do nothing - is that a whole lot of people are going to suffer.
The best case scenario - if we outlaw coal & fossil fuels tomorrow - is that a whole lot of people are going to suffer. And even then - considering our limited influence to curb fossil fuels around the world - we STILL wind up with the worst case scenario.

I don't dispute the science. I'm just looking for a practical solution.

It would be bad enough if Americans as a whole were wasting valuable time standing around arguing about what was the most important thing to do even though some things were being done. But we're not even there. We have a relatively large percentage of the population saying there is no problem.

As an example of that, the other day I got into my truck and started driving. That self-appointed moralist and pseudo-intellectual, Dennis Prager, was on the air dismissing the importance of climate change because he said the temperature had only risen by one degree over a century. Admittedly, that's not much in the span of a human life. But over a longer period? That would be around 20 degrees over 2,000 years which is no further back than the time of the Roman Empire. That's assuming we're talking about Fahrenheit. If we're talking Celsius, that translates into 38 degrees F.

Yes, it's true that climate is always 'changing.' But there's a world of difference between 10 degrees over half a million years when plants and animals have time to adapt, and 10 degrees over 500 years when they don't.

The point is that we've got to stop sitting on our collective hands, and conservatives are like the group of people who don't worry about fire when they don't see any flames because they don't believe in spontaneous combustion even though there may fumes and smoke in the area. The other problem is that all the people who are dismissing the warnings now will never have to worry about being held to account for causing any delay in addressing the problem because they'll likely all be dead by the time it's both glaringly obvious even to children that there's a problem and it's also probably far too late to address the problem in a meaningful way that would prevent catastrophe. When any person waits until the fire is burning hot and fast enough, no fire department in the world will be able to put it out. Even a rainstorm wouldn't help.

Considering that CO2 released into the atmosphere stays in the atmosphere for about a hundred years (at least), what we're witnessing today was first put in motion around 1900. All we've done is add to it since then with more and more CO2 emissions, larger populations (the world population has more than doubled since I was a teenager), increased industrialization, and more and more deforestation and increased stress on the environment.

But ultimately, the atmospheric rise in temperature is transferred to the oceans. Once the acidity level and the temperature of the ocean rises to a certain level, the planet WILL die no matter what we do at that point. We won't be able to stop it then. So, we better damn well get off our asses.

 

[paulitician]

The Climate Change issue has been used and hijacked by Communists and New World Order assholes. But their scam is now coming to an end. Less & less people are buying into it. Most people are sick of their endless hysterical fear mongering. The great Global Warming Scam is over. The Communists and New World Order assholes are just gonna have to deal with that reality.

 

[Meister]

The Climate Change issue has been used and hijacked by Communists and New World Order assholes. But their scam is now coming to an end. Less & less people are buying into it. Most people are sick of their endless hysterical fear mongering. The great Global Warming Scam is over. The Communists and New World Order assholes are just gonna have to deal with that reality.

Couldn't have said it better, myself.

 

[KNB]

The world loses an area of rainforest the size of Panama each year.
Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

There is an area of plastic garbage in the Pacific ocean that is the size of the continental United States, accumulating more and feeding into the food chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pacific+plastic+gyre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

We have burnt coal and oil continuously all over the world, 24 hours a day, for over 100 years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+revolution+fossil+fuels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

The pollution over China can be seen from space.
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+pollution+seen+from+space&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

This combination of factors has created the Greenhouse Effect. Only the dumbest talking monkeys can look at the state of the world and think, "Everything is fine. GOD is in control."

Yes, it is true that human activity means less than nothing to the Earth. It is true that the planet can shake off the human race like a case of fleas. Plants and animals will reclaim the ruins of every major city within a couple of months after we're gone.

What we are trying to do is to prevent that from happening. We don't want the human race to overpopulate and consume the world's resources until the planet can no longer support us and everyone dies. That is not the ultimate goal of the human race.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Surely a global warming tax is needed as well as eliminating the use of fossil fuels...PROGRESS for mankind ! Lol

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The world loses an area of rainforest the size of Panama each year.
Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

There is an area of plastic garbage in the Pacific ocean that is the size of the continental United States, accumulating more and feeding into the food chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pacific+plastic+gyre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

We have burnt coal and oil continuously all over the world, 24 hours a day, for over 100 years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+revolution+fossil+fuels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

The pollution over China can be seen from space.
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+pollution+seen+from+space&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

This combination of factors has created the Greenhouse Effect. Only the dumbest talking monkeys can look at the state of the world and think, "Everything is fine. GOD is in control."

Yes, it is true that human activity means less than nothing to the Earth. It is true that the planet can shake off the human race like a case of fleas. Plants and animals will reclaim the ruins of every major city within a couple of months after we're gone.

What we are trying to do is to prevent that from happening. We don't want the human race to overpopulate and consume the world's resources until the planet can no longer support us and everyone dies. That is not the ultimate goal of the human race.

What is the ultimate goal of humans?

 

[Plasmaball]

I would find it very refreshing to hear some honesty in the Climate Change debate.

If the naysayers would stop the ignorant denials and just admit that they just don't have the will to change anything in response, I could respect that.

Denials? The naysayers are waiting for the proof.

Which has been given over and over and over...

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Surely a global warming tax is needed as well as eliminating the use of fossil fuels...PROGRESS for mankind ! Lol

It will. A tax will get the temperatures back to normal by april 15 of next year.

 

[Plasmaball]

The Earth warms, the Earth cools. That's the way it is, was, and always will be. Human Beings will either adapt to changing Climate, or they won't. If they don't, they'll go the way of the Dinosaurs. But my guess is, they will adapt. 'Global Warming' has become Political and Cultish scam. The Alarmists should be ashamed of themselves. They've Fear Mongered their 'Global Warming' scam to the point of absurdity. The People are sick of it. And now that they're being called on their scam, they're becoming desperate. People always get desperate when they get called on their Bullshit.

In the end, it's your call if you want to live in fear of 'Global Warming.' I know i won't live in fear. I would recommend you just live. Us humans aren't around very long. I would advise everyone live life to the fullest. Make each day count. Don't waste your days living in fear of 'Global Warming.'

Yes the scam to keep our way of life as it is now.

What the fuck? Every time a tornado runs through a town I hope it's full of people like you.

 

[westwall]

The world loses an area of rainforest the size of Panama each year.
Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

There is an area of plastic garbage in the Pacific ocean that is the size of the continental United States, accumulating more and feeding into the food chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pacific+plastic+gyre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

We have burnt coal and oil continuously all over the world, 24 hours a day, for over 100 years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+revolution+fossil+fuels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

The pollution over China can be seen from space.
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+pollution+seen+from+space&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

This combination of factors has created the Greenhouse Effect. Only the dumbest talking monkeys can look at the state of the world and think, "Everything is fine. GOD is in control."

Yes, it is true that human activity means less than nothing to the Earth. It is true that the planet can shake off the human race like a case of fleas. Plants and animals will reclaim the ruins of every major city within a couple of months after we're gone.

What we are trying to do is to prevent that from happening. We don't want the human race to overpopulate and consume the world's resources until the planet can no longer support us and everyone dies. That is not the ultimate goal of the human race.

Rain forest preservation is one of my big things. Mankind should do everything possible to prevent that irreparable harm.

Your Great Pacific Garbage patch is not visible to the naked eye for the most part. In fact when researchers skimmed the area a few years back they couldn't find anything but microscopic plastic bits.

Yes coal has been burned for over 100 years. However,a single major volcanic eruption puts more crap into the atmosphere than all of mans pollution for all of mans history. So, big deal.

Pollution from China should be greatly curtailed. Especially their particulate discharge. None of the GHG's they emit matter however.

AGW has been shown to be a false theory. You need no longer worry about it.

 

[Plasmaball]

Geological cycles. Nothing more, nothing less. That we're this arrogant to think that we're anything greater than a pinprick is startling. I suggest reading john mcphee.

I do agree somewhat but when I read or see something on the tube about the Dust Bowl it does remind me that humans can have an effect on the environment and the weather.

But as for GW I really do wonder if 2 degrees is going to make much of a difference and I am for a 2 degree increase after this last winter. If the volcano in Yellowstone lights off then it really won't matter that much what we have done.

Its like an asteroid. 2 degrees way out in space either means it's going to hit us or miss us. Same thing with the climate.

 

[Plasmaball]

The world loses an area of rainforest the size of Panama each year.
Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

There is an area of plastic garbage in the Pacific ocean that is the size of the continental United States, accumulating more and feeding into the food chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pacific+plastic+gyre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

We have burnt coal and oil continuously all over the world, 24 hours a day, for over 100 years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+revolution+fossil+fuels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

The pollution over China can be seen from space.
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+pollution+seen+from+space&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

This combination of factors has created the Greenhouse Effect. Only the dumbest talking monkeys can look at the state of the world and think, "Everything is fine. GOD is in control."

Yes, it is true that human activity means less than nothing to the Earth. It is true that the planet can shake off the human race like a case of fleas. Plants and animals will reclaim the ruins of every major city within a couple of months after we're gone.

What we are trying to do is to prevent that from happening. We don't want the human race to overpopulate and consume the world's resources until the planet can no longer support us and everyone dies. That is not the ultimate goal of the human race.

Rain forest preservation is one of my big things. Mankind should do everything possible to prevent that irreparable harm.

Your Great Pacific Garbage patch is not visible to the naked eye for the most part. In fact when researchers skimmed the area a few years back they couldn't find anything but microscopic plastic bits.

Yes coal has been burned for over 100 years. However,a single major volcanic eruption puts more crap into the atmosphere than all of mans pollution for all of mans history. So, big deal.

Pollution from China should be greatly curtailed. Especially their particulate discharge. None of the GHG's they emit matter however.

AGW has been shown to be a false theory. You need no longer worry about it.

A volcano is a natural reaction. And the affect is typically a more cold snowy winter down the road.

 

[Redfish]

Do any of you liberals know the difference between pollution and climate? anyone?

you are claiming that man made pollution is changing the climate of the earth, right?

what man made pollution caused the last ice age?

Pollution is bad--for the planet and form every form of life on it------------BUT, there is absolutely no proof that man made pollution has caused the climate of the planet to change.

Theories, yes, Proof, no.

 

[Meister]

I would find it very refreshing to hear some honesty in the Climate Change debate.

If the naysayers would stop the ignorant denials and just admit that they just don't have the will to change anything in response, I could respect that.

Denials? The naysayers are waiting for the proof.

Which has been given over and over and over...

Not without manipulated data.

 

[Redfish]

The world loses an area of rainforest the size of Panama each year.
Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

There is an area of plastic garbage in the Pacific ocean that is the size of the continental United States, accumulating more and feeding into the food chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pacific+plastic+gyre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

We have burnt coal and oil continuously all over the world, 24 hours a day, for over 100 years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+revolution+fossil+fuels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

The pollution over China can be seen from space.
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+pollution+seen+from+space&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

This combination of factors has created the Greenhouse Effect. Only the dumbest talking monkeys can look at the state of the world and think, "Everything is fine. GOD is in control."

Yes, it is true that human activity means less than nothing to the Earth. It is true that the planet can shake off the human race like a case of fleas. Plants and animals will reclaim the ruins of every major city within a couple of months after we're gone.

What we are trying to do is to prevent that from happening. We don't want the human race to overpopulate and consume the world's resources until the planet can no longer support us and everyone dies. That is not the ultimate goal of the human race.

Rain forest preservation is one of my big things. Mankind should do everything possible to prevent that irreparable harm.

Your Great Pacific Garbage patch is not visible to the naked eye for the most part. In fact when researchers skimmed the area a few years back they couldn't find anything but microscopic plastic bits.

Yes coal has been burned for over 100 years. However,a single major volcanic eruption puts more crap into the atmosphere than all of mans pollution for all of mans history. So, big deal.

Pollution from China should be greatly curtailed. Especially their particulate discharge. None of the GHG's they emit matter however.

AGW has been shown to be a false theory. You need no longer worry about it.

A volcano is a natural reaction. And the affect is typically a more cold snowy winter down the road.

I love you libs---volcanoes cause snow------wow, who knew?

 

[Redfish]

Geological cycles. Nothing more, nothing less. That we're this arrogant to think that we're anything greater than a pinprick is startling. I suggest reading john mcphee.

I do agree somewhat but when I read or see something on the tube about the Dust Bowl it does remind me that humans can have an effect on the environment and the weather.

But as for GW I really do wonder if 2 degrees is going to make much of a difference and I am for a 2 degree increase after this last winter. If the volcano in Yellowstone lights off then it really won't matter that much what we have done.

Its like an asteroid. 2 degrees way out in space either means it's going to hit us or miss us. Same thing with the climate.

please google solar radiation and sun spots. the sun controls our climate, not a soccer mom driving an SUV.

 

[paulitician]

The great Global Warming Scam is over. We're gonna survive. The World won't be ending anytime soon. Time to turn the page on this one.

 

[Freewill]

The world loses an area of rainforest the size of Panama each year.
Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

There is an area of plastic garbage in the Pacific ocean that is the size of the continental United States, accumulating more and feeding into the food chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pacific+plastic+gyre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

We have burnt coal and oil continuously all over the world, 24 hours a day, for over 100 years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+revolution+fossil+fuels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

The pollution over China can be seen from space.
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+pollution+seen+from+space&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

This combination of factors has created the Greenhouse Effect. Only the dumbest talking monkeys can look at the state of the world and think, "Everything is fine. GOD is in control."

Yes, it is true that human activity means less than nothing to the Earth. It is true that the planet can shake off the human race like a case of fleas. Plants and animals will reclaim the ruins of every major city within a couple of months after we're gone.

What we are trying to do is to prevent that from happening. We don't want the human race to overpopulate and consume the world's resources until the planet can no longer support us and everyone dies. That is not the ultimate goal of the human race.

First of all not all of them lead to the GH effect, if by that you mean releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere.

1. The rainforest yes, but that is not in America. Even if we limited our import, which I believe we4 have other countries use the same wood.

2. The island of plastic, no.

3. We in the US are shutting coal fired electric generation plants. China is building one a week. Not much we in the US can do about that. So we put our men out of work for no net gain.

The "world" doesn't care it is an inanimate object. If we destroy anything it will be us, the world, it no care.

In the 70s I heard about how the Earth could never support the population we have today, yet here we are.