Scientists are floored by what’s happening in the Arctic right now

[mamooth]

What's funny is how WUWT had a dead link, and Billy just mindlessly copied it without trying to look at it.

What's also funny is how NOAA doesn't make ice measurements, but Billy worked them into the conspiracy theory.

And how Billy's graph doesn't show the 2-sigma variation, but Billy still feels it's inside.

And how Billy says it's just like to the 30-year average, though the graph only shows the last 8 years of very low ice.

And how Billy seems to think 2-sigma is a magic barrier.

And how the 2016 level is at a tie for a record low even on that graph.

Damn Billy, that was a lot of fail to cram in one post.

 

[flacaltenn]

Right where they said it was:

Lying? Propaganda? You've really bought into the Exxon pitch, haven't you?

Sure -- Nashville is ALWAYS +/- the average by 12 degrees in the winter for any week.

And since it's JANUARY in the Arctic -- that means it's only 14 degF instead of -2degF. Big whoops..
Go back and look at the Hadley Arctic temperature record I posted above.. You see those MONTHLY SPIKES going back to the 1950s ???????????????????????????

Nevermind -- I forgot you trouble reading graphs..

Only reason they are "floored" is to make the propaganda that much more dramatic. I suspect that next announcement they will be just STUNNED or DUMBFOUNDED. They have great PR people..

 

[Old Rocks]

Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area

Well now, notice on this graph the right sidebar. See how the years go from blue to red from 1979 to present? Note how on the y axis, anywhere you look on the graph, that the upper area is blue, and the lower area is pink to red. Do you have to be a genius to read and recognize the meaning of that?

 

[Billy_Bob]

What's funny is how WUWT had a dead link, and Billy just mindlessly copied it without trying to look at it.

What's also funny is how NOAA doesn't make ice measurements, but Billy worked them into the conspiracy theory.

And how Billy's graph doesn't show the 2-sigma variation, but Billy still feels it's inside.

And how Billy says it's just like to the 30-year average, though the graph only shows the last 8 years of very low ice.

And how Billy seems to think 2-sigma is a magic barrier.

And how the 2016 level is at a tie for a record low even on that graph.

Damn Billy, that was a lot of fail to cram in one post.

What a mindless libtard..

The CSV files are for those of us who do look into the data for ourselves. I doubt that your brain could handle making any of that data into a graph or understanding it.

Here is the updated link to the graph product: http://web.nersc.no/WebData/arctic-roos.org/observation/ssmi_ice_area.png

Poor little libtard cant figure out that the standard deviations are relevant to a 30 year average that is arbitrarily set. (basically pulled out of someones ass)

We do not have a long enough records to make an adequate assessment of how sea ice levels vary naturally. Our current base line for the anomaly graph is wrong when you consider the last 1000 years of not only melt but refreeze. We are currently, solidly, within those boundaries today.

But you not being a scientist, makes me painfully aware of your lack of even basic understanding.

 

[flacaltenn]

Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area

Well now, notice on this graph the right sidebar. See how the years go from blue to red from 1979 to present? Note how on the y axis, anywhere you look on the graph, that the upper area is blue, and the lower area is pink to red. Do you have to be a genius to read and recognize the meaning of that?

I don't DO sea ice. Not a real thermometer. Has too many necessary conditions for growth/decay.. Arctic Temps in summer have been over 32deg during a 60 day summer period for HUNDREDS of years. It MELTS in the summer. Regenerates in the winter. That does not "floor" me. If summer ice went to ZERO. It COULD all regenerate in a decade..

 

[edthecynic]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

 

[edthecynic]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Yet another perfect example of how the Right lies.

Your link dishonestly uses two DIFFERENT standards when comparing 2015 to 1997. For 1997 they use the 30 year average standard of 1961 to 1990 to get their average temperature, but the dishonest lying scum you sourced use the 100 year 20th century average standard for the 2015 average temperature, even though the same 100 year 20th century average standard for 1997 had already been published BEFORE the time your source published their lies.

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

WE know . Only your links are accurate and only your science is acceptable.. Laughable crap...

Yet another sea ice calculation shows normal (as the 30 year base period) range of ice coverage and well within the +/- 2 standard devations.

Nansen data (CSV file with both extent and area) download here

It's rather funny that all the US NOAA calculations are way low and most every other global index has us in normal ranges. Why do you suppose that is? Someone is fudging their data. Who do you suppose it is, those who are in agreement or NOAA? Given the history of who has been caught messing with the data....

Notice how the Right, when they know their source got caught lying, try to desperately change the subject from temperature to ice!
Thank you.

 

[flacaltenn]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

Nuh uh.. I'm not confused.. Tell the folks at home what you ADD to the average temperature to get the anomaly.

For example -- the ACTUAL GMASTemp is 60.45234 degF and the BASELINE AVERAGE (whatever period it is over is 58.19324698.. Show me the addition to get an "anomaly" in the single digit range. Like 2.11946.

Go back and read the part of my post YOU BOLDED.. I was correct in what I said. YOU just have difficulties recognizing how many ways some equation can be stated. It's embarrassing for you to quibble like that. Makes folks not want to deal with the pettiness..

 

[Old Rocks]

Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area

Well now, notice on this graph the right sidebar. See how the years go from blue to red from 1979 to present? Note how on the y axis, anywhere you look on the graph, that the upper area is blue, and the lower area is pink to red. Do you have to be a genius to read and recognize the meaning of that?

I don't DO sea ice. Not a real thermometer. Has too many necessary conditions for growth/decay.. Arctic Temps in summer have been over 32deg during a 60 day summer period for HUNDREDS of years. It MELTS in the summer. Regenerates in the winter. That does not "floor" me. If summer ice went to ZERO. It COULD all regenerate in a decade..

No, not with the present increasing temperatures. It may come back a little bit for a little while, but the trend will continue down. And with it, the erosion of the permafrost, and the outgassing of the clathrates. Question is, how much, how fast?

 

[edthecynic]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

Nuh uh.. I'm not confused.. Tell the folks at home what you ADD to the average temperature to get the anomaly.

For example -- the ACTUAL GMASTemp is 60.45234 degF and the BASELINE AVERAGE (whatever period it is over is 58.19324698.. Show me the addition to get an "anomaly" in the single digit range. Like 2.11946.

Go back and read the part of my post YOU BOLDED.. I was correct in what I said. YOU just have difficulties recognizing how many ways some equation can be stated. It's embarrassing for you to quibble like that. Makes folks not want to deal with the pettiness..

Not only are you confused, you are ass backwards. You don't add anything to get the anomaly, we are not solving for the anomaly we are solving for temperature BTW, you add the anomaly to the baseline temperature just as WUWT showed you. They were right about that part, they were dishonest about comparing a temperature from a 30 year baseline to a temperature from a 100 year baseline. Honest people would have used a 30 year baseline for both or a 100 year baseline for both, and none of your attempts to muddy the waters will make the denier's source any less dishonest.

 

[jc456]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

1. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
2. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

dude, excuse me, but you're still arguing that 58 is greater than 62. It states hottest year ever, not hottest century. I think you need to reread what you posted.

And some day, never, you'll convince someone other than a warmer that 58 > 62. Funny shit my man.

 

[saveliberty]

Ed is cynical about the 62<58 debate.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

'Stuck in our own experiment': Leader of trapped team insists polar ice is melting | Fox News

'Stuck in our own experiment': Leader of trapped team insists polar ice is melting

When I heard this, I almost fell off my chair. Bad news about what was happening , is that it was increasing in December, which if you know, is the "SUMMERTIME" below the equator. Of course when they sent in a rescue ship, it got stuck also, and finally they airlifted them off the ship by helicopter. But alas, as religious fanatical liberal zelots, they continue to believe that the Earf(inner city for Earth) is still warming up. It used to be 10 years before the Earf would burn up, then it was moved to 20 years, and still we are here, so now the forecast is for 100 years when all those rich liberals(Al Gore) is long gone, and no one will remember who the real THIEVES are that stole the money from the US taxpayers.

 

[9aces]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

Nuh uh.. I'm not confused.. Tell the folks at home what you ADD to the average temperature to get the anomaly.

For example -- the ACTUAL GMASTemp is 60.45234 degF and the BASELINE AVERAGE (whatever period it is over is 58.19324698.. Show me the addition to get an "anomaly" in the single digit range. Like 2.11946.

Go back and read the part of my post YOU BOLDED.. I was correct in what I said. YOU just have difficulties recognizing how many ways some equation can be stated. It's embarrassing for you to quibble like that. Makes folks not want to deal with the pettiness..

Not only are you confused, you are ass backwards. You don't add anything to get the anomaly, we are not solving for the anomaly we are solving for temperature BTW, you add the anomaly to the baseline temperature just as WUWT showed you. They were right about that part, they were dishonest about comparing a temperature from a 30 year baseline to a temperature from a 100 year baseline. Honest people would have used a 30 year baseline for both or a 100 year baseline for both, and none of your attempts to muddy the waters will make the denier's source any less dishonest.

So let me get this straight. You agree that they misrepresented the data....and blame people who point it out...for pointing it out?

 

[flacaltenn]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

Nuh uh.. I'm not confused.. Tell the folks at home what you ADD to the average temperature to get the anomaly.

For example -- the ACTUAL GMASTemp is 60.45234 degF and the BASELINE AVERAGE (whatever period it is over is 58.19324698.. Show me the addition to get an "anomaly" in the single digit range. Like 2.11946.

Go back and read the part of my post YOU BOLDED.. I was correct in what I said. YOU just have difficulties recognizing how many ways some equation can be stated. It's embarrassing for you to quibble like that. Makes folks not want to deal with the pettiness..

Not only are you confused, you are ass backwards. You don't add anything to get the anomaly, we are not solving for the anomaly we are solving for temperature BTW, you add the anomaly to the baseline temperature just as WUWT showed you. They were right about that part, they were dishonest about comparing a temperature from a 30 year baseline to a temperature from a 100 year baseline. Honest people would have used a 30 year baseline for both or a 100 year baseline for both, and none of your attempts to muddy the waters will make the denier's source any less dishonest.

Again -- the statement I made was TOTALLY correct.. You didn't pay attention to the assertion I made.

You CREATE anomalies by SUBTRACTING the baseline average. You RECREATE actual average temperatures by ADDING the baseline average.

For you to be WHINING about simple mathematical equivalents -- shows you're not very nimble with the actual processes.. Cut it out..For your sake...

 

[flacaltenn]

Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area

Well now, notice on this graph the right sidebar. See how the years go from blue to red from 1979 to present? Note how on the y axis, anywhere you look on the graph, that the upper area is blue, and the lower area is pink to red. Do you have to be a genius to read and recognize the meaning of that?

I don't DO sea ice. Not a real thermometer. Has too many necessary conditions for growth/decay.. Arctic Temps in summer have been over 32deg during a 60 day summer period for HUNDREDS of years. It MELTS in the summer. Regenerates in the winter. That does not "floor" me. If summer ice went to ZERO. It COULD all regenerate in a decade..

No, not with the present increasing temperatures. It may come back a little bit for a little while, but the trend will continue down. And with it, the erosion of the permafrost, and the outgassing of the clathrates. Question is, how much, how fast?

One good 22 year Solar Minimum ought to do it huh??

 

[flacaltenn]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

1. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
2. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

dude, excuse me, but you're still arguing that 58 is greater than 62. It states hottest year ever, not hottest century. I think you need to reread what you posted.

And some day, never, you'll convince someone other than a warmer that 58 > 62. Funny shit my man.

The argument here is simply that NASA/NOAA wanted a BIGGER SCARIER sounding "anomaly".. So they shifted from 30 year traveling means to using an ENTIRE CENTURY mean as the baseline.

Fact is -- IF they are on separate baselines YOU CANNOT compare them,. PERIOD -- end of discussion.. Even if NASA tries to do so..

Just like the satellite anomalies are NOT directly comparable because their baseline average starts at the beginning of the satellite record in 1979..

Not my fault they tend to obfuscate this simple math. Take NOTE tho.. Every time NASA/NOAA makes an ADJUSTMENT to ancient temp records from the 1920s or 1940s -- THEY ARE CHANGING THE BASELINE...
No shit Sherlock --- the 20th Century Baseline Average is not really static. Even tho we're not in that century any more. It CHANGES with the daily "fiddling" to the older records.. So suit up --- get a clue and play harder.

 

[flacaltenn]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

1. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
2. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

dude, excuse me, but you're still arguing that 58 is greater than 62. It states hottest year ever, not hottest century. I think you need to reread what you posted.

And some day, never, you'll convince someone other than a warmer that 58 > 62. Funny shit my man.

The argument here is simply that NASA/NOAA wanted a BIGGER SCARIER sounding "anomaly".. So they shifted from 30 year traveling means to using an ENTIRE CENTURY mean as the baseline.

Fact is -- IF they are on separate baselines YOU CANNOT compare them,. PERIOD -- end of discussion.. Even if NASA tries to do so..

Just like the satellite anomalies are NOT directly comparable because their baseline average starts at the beginning of the satellite record in 1979..

Not my fault they tend to obfuscate this simple math. Take NOTE tho.. Every time NASA/NOAA makes an ADJUSTMENT to ancient temp records from the 1920s or 1940s -- THEY ARE CHANGING THE BASELINE...
No shit Sherlock --- the 20th Century Baseline Average is not really static. Even tho we're not in that century any more. It CHANGES with the daily "fiddling" to the older records.. So suit up --- get a clue and play harder.

Which means -- AND PAY ATTENTION HERE -- that NASA/NOAA can FUDGE a new high MONTHLY RECORD by going back and cooling the 1940s and thus changing the 20th century baseline. And as far as Ed is concerned --- they APPEAR to be "on the same baseline"...

 

[jc456]

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

From your dishonest link:

In that 1997 report, they say clearly that the Global Average Temperature (GAT) was 62.45°F, based on a 30-year average (1961-1990) of the combined land and sea surface temperatures.

During 2015, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.62°F (0.90°C) above the 20th century average.

It was blogger Wattsupwiththat who first noticed and explained the funky math. He explains that the recent report compares 2015 to the 20th century average - but, doesn't mention what that average temperature was.

However, it does give a 20th Century average in its November 2015 State of the Climate Report: - 13.9 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit):

Global Analysis - Annual 2015 | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The annual temperature anomalies for 1997 and 1998 were 0.51°C (0.92°F) and 0.63°C (1.13°F), respectively, above the 20th century average

Would be GREAT if you knew WHEN the baseline average mattered. In your 1st claim --- GAT= 62.45degF -- there IS no baseline involved because ----------------------- It's NOT an ANOMALY, it's an actual temperature average.

And your LAST statement of anomalies for 1997 and 1998 don't state what baseline was being subtracted to GET an anomaly. I think you're a bit confused as to when it matters..

Actually you add, not subtract the baseline temperature, which WAS given, so it is YOU who are confused. I made it bigger and bold in the earlier post so you can't miss it this time, but you probably will anyway!

This is the problem with deniers, they pretend not only to be know-it-alls, they claim they know more than even the real scientists!

The link from the post I replied to explains everything, but obviously you understood nothing. The link explains exactly how to derive the temperature from the anomaly in detail, including showing you the math. They do the math for 2015, but dishonestly do not do it for 1997 knowing the deniers they are deliberately deceiving are both too stupid and too lazy to do it themselves for 1997 so they are comparing data using the same baseline.

I will post the math they did on their link for 2015 and then do the same thing for 1997 that you were too lazy to do yourself.

NOAA Butchers Math in Report Claiming 2015 Was Hottest Year Ever

Now, it's math time:

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 2015 average was 1.62 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
4. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

And now it is time for the truth using the same 20th Century average for 1997.

1. According to NOAA, the global average temperature for the 20th century was 57 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. And the 1997 average was 0.92 degrees Fahrenheit above that average.
3. In other words, according to this recent WUWT report, 1997 was the hottest year ever at 57.92 degrees Fahrenheit (57+0.92) when using the same baseline.
4. Therefore when comparing the data using the same baseline WUWT wants you suckers to believe 57.92 is greater than 58.62

1. In other words, according to this recent NOAA report, 2015 was the hottest year ever at 58.62 degrees Fahrenheit (57+1.62).
2. And, that 1997 NOAA report states 1997 had an average global temperature of 62.45 degrees.

dude, excuse me, but you're still arguing that 58 is greater than 62. It states hottest year ever, not hottest century. I think you need to reread what you posted.

And some day, never, you'll convince someone other than a warmer that 58 > 62. Funny shit my man.

The argument here is simply that NASA/NOAA wanted a BIGGER SCARIER sounding "anomaly".. So they shifted from 30 year traveling means to using an ENTIRE CENTURY mean as the baseline.

Fact is -- IF they are on separate baselines YOU CANNOT compare them,. PERIOD -- end of discussion.. Even if NASA tries to do so..

Just like the satellite anomalies are NOT directly comparable because their baseline average starts at the beginning of the satellite record in 1979..

Not my fault they tend to obfuscate this simple math. Take NOTE tho.. Every time NASA/NOAA makes an ADJUSTMENT to ancient temp records from the 1920s or 1940s -- THEY ARE CHANGING THE BASELINE...
No shit Sherlock --- the 20th Century Baseline Average is not really static. Even tho we're not in that century any more. It CHANGES with the daily "fiddling" to the older records.. So suit up --- get a clue and play harder.

did you mean that for me? I was talking to Ed. I asked Ed to prove how 58 >62 for a yearly average temperature. I never mentioned baselines.

 

[longknife]

Scientists are floored by what’s happening in the Arctic right now

Source: Washington Post

New data from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration suggest that January of 2016 was, for the globe, a truly extraordinary month. Coming off the hottest year ever recorded (2015), January saw the greatest departure from average of any month on record, according to data provided by NASA.

But as you can see in the NASA figure above, the record breaking heat wasn’t uniformly distributed — it was particularly pronounced at the top of the world, showing temperature anomalies above 4 degrees Celsius (7.2 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than the 1951 to 1980 average in this region.

Indeed, NASA provides a “zonal mean” version of the temperature map above, which shows how the temperature departures from average change based on one’s latitude location on the Earth. As you can see, things get especially warm, relative to what the Earth is used to, as you enter the very high latitudes:

Read more: Scientists are floored by what’s happening in the Arctic right now

But hey, it aint happening as it is all made up and so we should go pray to jesus christ!!! Read our 2,000 year old book and sing how god makes sure this never happens. lol

And these brilliant scientists have absolutely no idea what happened to the colony of 150,000 penguins cut off from the ocean when the massive ice berg moved and cut off their access to the sea.

Sure creates a lot of confidence in their utterances.