SCOTUS: states cannot ban same sex marriage

[ChrisL]

In the old days, religious people used to torture and kill other people, claiming they were "heretics." This seems like more of the same, only on a less violent scale, IMO.

her·e·tic
ˈherəˌtik/
noun

1. a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
   synonyms: dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More
   
   • a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

 

[Bonzi]

We all have (or should have) freedom of speech and expression.
Shut up and fall in line hardly exemplifies that.......

 

[Bonzi]

paddy ... I'm sorry this is so upsetting to you. I could reveal things about my personal life that I'm sure would change your opinion about me, but, I don't think that is necessary here.

Others may disagree with me, and that's fine. My hope is that all would find and have their eyes opened to God and following Him. What I say is what I know to be true in my heart. Others have equally strong convictions to the contrary, but, as an agent of God, I feel I must speak Truth. Regardless of the opposition I come up against. Not to be a contrarian or to cause arguments and hate, but, because I love God.

I assure you. My love is real.

Well, then you wouldn't want to discriminate against other human beings, also creations of God, according to your beliefs.

Everyone should experience and has God's love available to them.
I guess people have different definitions of love. Here is something (ironically) that showed up in my email this morning....
Today's Scripture "Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6
Thoughts for Today. In today's world, unity and tolerance have become goals within themselves. Peace at any cost. All ways lead to God. Live and let live. Such "tolerant" attitudes actually lead to intolerance of anyone who claims to have the answer.
Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to God, the only way to real peace. Indeed, in Isaiah 9:6 he is called the Prince of Peace. Although God calls us to love all people, for us to seek unity and peace by agreeing that other faiths can lead to God is to deny our own faith; and to deny Jesus.
Consider this …
As Christians, we are not expressing Christ-like love when we are willing to accept the beliefs of those who deny Christ or live sinful lifestyles as OK; all for the sake of unity and peace. We need to express Jesus' love by loving people where they are, by building relationships with them and … as the Holy Spirit leads … by sharing the truths of the Gospel with them. Jesus is the only answer.

No one has to believe this. But I hope they would and/or would consider it instead of dismissing it out of hand.

I have been on both sides (I used to be an atheist/agnostic)

You can believe whatever you want to believe, but in our secular society that doesn't give you the go ahead to trample over other people's rights. No matter how you slice it, these are human beings who are living in America and entitled to the same rights as everyone else regardless of whether or not you "approve" of them.

It's a great society in the sense that we can all have a voice. Whether you are secular or not.
I'm sure that is why so many people want to live her (legally or illegally but that is another topic!)
I do not deny that men are running the country and making the laws.

I think the point here is to live and let live. It's not up to you to judge these people on God's behalf. He didn't anoint you to such a position, so I don't know what makes you judge and jury.

I really am not judging. I have opinions, but, ultimately, I answer to God and do what I feel he would have me to do an say.....

You think I'm wrong in what I believe. I don't consider that judging and I hope you don't consider my beliefs judging either, just because we share them....

 

[Bonzi]

paddy ... I'm sorry this is so upsetting to you. I could reveal things about my personal life that I'm sure would change your opinion about me, but, I don't think that is necessary here.

Others may disagree with me, and that's fine. My hope is that all would find and have their eyes opened to God and following Him. What I say is what I know to be true in my heart. Others have equally strong convictions to the contrary, but, as an agent of God, I feel I must speak Truth. Regardless of the opposition I come up against. Not to be a contrarian or to cause arguments and hate, but, because I love God.

I assure you. My love is real.

Well, then you wouldn't want to discriminate against other human beings, also creations of God, according to your beliefs.

Everyone should experience and has God's love available to them.
I guess people have different definitions of love. Here is something (ironically) that showed up in my email this morning....
Today's Scripture "Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6
Thoughts for Today. In today's world, unity and tolerance have become goals within themselves. Peace at any cost. All ways lead to God. Live and let live. Such "tolerant" attitudes actually lead to intolerance of anyone who claims to have the answer.
Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to God, the only way to real peace. Indeed, in Isaiah 9:6 he is called the Prince of Peace. Although God calls us to love all people, for us to seek unity and peace by agreeing that other faiths can lead to God is to deny our own faith; and to deny Jesus.
Consider this …
As Christians, we are not expressing Christ-like love when we are willing to accept the beliefs of those who deny Christ or live sinful lifestyles as OK; all for the sake of unity and peace. We need to express Jesus' love by loving people where they are, by building relationships with them and … as the Holy Spirit leads … by sharing the truths of the Gospel with them. Jesus is the only answer.

No one has to believe this. But I hope they would and/or would consider it instead of dismissing it out of hand.

I have been on both sides (I used to be an atheist/agnostic)

So if you eat bacon you're living a sinful life... but pissing all over gays telling them they are gonna go to hell that's being a good person. Maybe put down the stones? Just sayin.

Eating bacon isn't a sin...and never was for gentiles

talking about moving the goal posts... yes eating bacon is a sin according to the bible... it's right next to gay sex acts being a sin.

see my post above - explaining the Levitical Laws....

 

[ChrisL]

Well, then you wouldn't want to discriminate against other human beings, also creations of God, according to your beliefs.

Everyone should experience and has God's love available to them.
I guess people have different definitions of love. Here is something (ironically) that showed up in my email this morning....
Today's Scripture "Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6
Thoughts for Today. In today's world, unity and tolerance have become goals within themselves. Peace at any cost. All ways lead to God. Live and let live. Such "tolerant" attitudes actually lead to intolerance of anyone who claims to have the answer.
Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to God, the only way to real peace. Indeed, in Isaiah 9:6 he is called the Prince of Peace. Although God calls us to love all people, for us to seek unity and peace by agreeing that other faiths can lead to God is to deny our own faith; and to deny Jesus.
Consider this …
As Christians, we are not expressing Christ-like love when we are willing to accept the beliefs of those who deny Christ or live sinful lifestyles as OK; all for the sake of unity and peace. We need to express Jesus' love by loving people where they are, by building relationships with them and … as the Holy Spirit leads … by sharing the truths of the Gospel with them. Jesus is the only answer.

No one has to believe this. But I hope they would and/or would consider it instead of dismissing it out of hand.

I have been on both sides (I used to be an atheist/agnostic)

You can believe whatever you want to believe, but in our secular society that doesn't give you the go ahead to trample over other people's rights. No matter how you slice it, these are human beings who are living in America and entitled to the same rights as everyone else regardless of whether or not you "approve" of them.

It's a great society in the sense that we can all have a voice. Whether you are secular or not.
I'm sure that is why so many people want to live her (legally or illegally but that is another topic!)
I do not deny that men are running the country and making the laws.

I think the point here is to live and let live. It's not up to you to judge these people on God's behalf. He didn't anoint you to such a position, so I don't know what makes you judge and jury.

I really am not judging. I have opinions, but, ultimately, I answer to God and do what I feel he would have me to do an say.....

You think I'm wrong in what I believe. I don't consider that judging and I hope you don't consider my beliefs judging either, just because we share them....

I think being against gay people having the same rights as you or I is "judging" them. I don't care what you believe. The point is that what you believe is no reason for our country to discriminate against gay people. Like I keep telling you, they are PEOPLE. They should be treated as such. It's a simple concept really.

 

[ChrisL]

We all have (or should have) freedom of speech and expression.
Shut up and fall in line hardly exemplifies that.......

Free speech? Trying to keep marriage between gay people illegal is NOT free speech.

 

[Bonzi]

Everyone should experience and has God's love available to them.
I guess people have different definitions of love. Here is something (ironically) that showed up in my email this morning....
Today's Scripture "Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6
Thoughts for Today. In today's world, unity and tolerance have become goals within themselves. Peace at any cost. All ways lead to God. Live and let live. Such "tolerant" attitudes actually lead to intolerance of anyone who claims to have the answer.
Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to God, the only way to real peace. Indeed, in Isaiah 9:6 he is called the Prince of Peace. Although God calls us to love all people, for us to seek unity and peace by agreeing that other faiths can lead to God is to deny our own faith; and to deny Jesus.
Consider this …
As Christians, we are not expressing Christ-like love when we are willing to accept the beliefs of those who deny Christ or live sinful lifestyles as OK; all for the sake of unity and peace. We need to express Jesus' love by loving people where they are, by building relationships with them and … as the Holy Spirit leads … by sharing the truths of the Gospel with them. Jesus is the only answer.

No one has to believe this. But I hope they would and/or would consider it instead of dismissing it out of hand.

I have been on both sides (I used to be an atheist/agnostic)

You can believe whatever you want to believe, but in our secular society that doesn't give you the go ahead to trample over other people's rights. No matter how you slice it, these are human beings who are living in America and entitled to the same rights as everyone else regardless of whether or not you "approve" of them.

It's a great society in the sense that we can all have a voice. Whether you are secular or not.
I'm sure that is why so many people want to live her (legally or illegally but that is another topic!)
I do not deny that men are running the country and making the laws.

I think the point here is to live and let live. It's not up to you to judge these people on God's behalf. He didn't anoint you to such a position, so I don't know what makes you judge and jury.

I really am not judging. I have opinions, but, ultimately, I answer to God and do what I feel he would have me to do an say.....

You think I'm wrong in what I believe. I don't consider that judging and I hope you don't consider my beliefs judging either, just because we share them....

I think being against gay people having the same rights as you or I is "judging" them. I don't care what you believe. The point is that what you believe is no reason for our country to discriminate against gay people. Like I keep telling you, they are PEOPLE. They should be treated as such. It's a simple concept really.

I've explained my position the best I know how through-out this thread, so, really I have nothing more to say.
Obviously you have a right to your opinion and stance. Hopefully we can part friends. If not, I understand.

 

[ChrisL]

You can believe whatever you want to believe, but in our secular society that doesn't give you the go ahead to trample over other people's rights. No matter how you slice it, these are human beings who are living in America and entitled to the same rights as everyone else regardless of whether or not you "approve" of them.

It's a great society in the sense that we can all have a voice. Whether you are secular or not.
I'm sure that is why so many people want to live her (legally or illegally but that is another topic!)
I do not deny that men are running the country and making the laws.

I think the point here is to live and let live. It's not up to you to judge these people on God's behalf. He didn't anoint you to such a position, so I don't know what makes you judge and jury.

I really am not judging. I have opinions, but, ultimately, I answer to God and do what I feel he would have me to do an say.....

You think I'm wrong in what I believe. I don't consider that judging and I hope you don't consider my beliefs judging either, just because we share them....

I think being against gay people having the same rights as you or I is "judging" them. I don't care what you believe. The point is that what you believe is no reason for our country to discriminate against gay people. Like I keep telling you, they are PEOPLE. They should be treated as such. It's a simple concept really.

I've explained my position the best I know how through-out this thread, so, really I have nothing more to say.
Obviously you have a right to your opinion and stance. Hopefully we can part friends. If not, I understand.

Of course, that's what this board is all about. Lol. No hard feelings.

 

[RKMBrown]

talking about moving the goal posts... yes eating bacon is a sin according to the bible... it's right next to gay sex acts being a sin.

It's no longer a sin, the New Covenant changed the Jewish dietary and ceremonial laws. Sorry, you can't win this one.

I see... so we are focusing on the new covenant. Good so do I.

“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” [John 8:7 KJV]

“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” [Matthew 22:37-40 KJV]

Let No One Disqualify You Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. (Colossians 2:16-19 ESV)

Think that over. He's pointing out three of the old rules and telling them to "let no one pass judgment on you regarding those rules... However, he follows with stating that these are a shadow of things to come.. IOW there may be more rules that should not be judged by man, and the substance of which should or should not be judged by man belongs to Christ, not man. You'll note he's not talking about the commandments but rather these types of jewish rules. You'll note that the rule about gays is right next to the rule about pork.

I said Covenants, not Testaments

Point?

I think the point is you have no idea what you are talking about. Covenants and Testaments are two different things. While I'm at it though homosexuality is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. I see the point you are trying to make, people pick their sins, but in essence you are doing the same thing. Sin is sin.

Wow. You must be really smart to be able to judge do many things about me over the internet through a couple posts! Can I have your autograph?

You are not god. You don't get to "disqualify" others. The substance belongs to Christ, not you, and not some rabbis from TWO THOUSAND YEARS BACK. Folks like you that sit around casting stones at gays telling them god does not love them because they are sinners... yeah... put your stone down and let Jesus decide whether the substance of their love for another man is a sin or not. Let go of your homophobia... let it go.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

We all have (or should have) freedom of speech and expression.
Shut up and fall in line hardly exemplifies that.......

Free speech? Trying to keep marriage between gay people illegal is NOT free speech.

Sorry but it is free speech. One has just as much right to say their beliefs as anyone else.

It's no longer a sin, the New Covenant changed the Jewish dietary and ceremonial laws. Sorry, you can't win this one.

I see... so we are focusing on the new covenant. Good so do I.

“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” [John 8:7 KJV]

“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” [Matthew 22:37-40 KJV]

Let No One Disqualify You Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. (Colossians 2:16-19 ESV)

Think that over. He's pointing out three of the old rules and telling them to "let no one pass judgment on you regarding those rules... However, he follows with stating that these are a shadow of things to come.. IOW there may be more rules that should not be judged by man, and the substance of which should or should not be judged by man belongs to Christ, not man. You'll note he's not talking about the commandments but rather these types of jewish rules. You'll note that the rule about gays is right next to the rule about pork.

I said Covenants, not Testaments

Point?

I think the point is you have no idea what you are talking about. Covenants and Testaments are two different things. While I'm at it though homosexuality is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. I see the point you are trying to make, people pick their sins, but in essence you are doing the same thing. Sin is sin.

Wow. You must be really smart to be able to judge do many things about me over the internet through a couple posts! Can I have your autograph?

You are not god. You don't get to "disqualify" others. The substance belongs to Christ, not you, and not some rabbis from TWO THOUSAND YEARS BACK. Folks like you that sit around casting stones at gays telling them god does not love them because they are sinners... yeah... put your stone down and let Jesus decide whether the substance of their love for another man is a sin or not. Let go of your homophobia... let it go.

I never disqualified anyone, I simply pointed out eating bacon isn't a sin. Now you're all butt hurt

 

[RKMBrown]

So if you eat bacon you're living a sinful life... but pissing all over gays telling them they are gonna go to hell that's being a good person.

The Levitical laws were broken into 3 groups. I won't bore you with the details (unless you want to hear them) but suffice it to say, homosexuality and it's sinfulness is addressed in both the Old and New Testament.

Am I going to say I never sin? No, of course not. To someone that doesn't believe in God, sin should not even be an issue - and for the record, I don't tell people they are going to hell. That is not my call to make. I can only tell them there is a better life for them... through Christ Jesus.

And eating pork was right next to homosexual acts. It's old Jewish rabbinical laws written by men.

Who are we to say a gay man can't be gay and be in a church of god at the same time? I see this as very similar to cloven hoof and Sabbath type rules that pick which day is the Sabbath and what keeping the Sabbath means. IMO men can sometimes get overzealous with their definitions of what is good or bad. I look at the ten commandments and I compare those to eating pork... and I have to say.. hmm..

Okay so I guess I'm going to have to explain after all - Here are the 3 groups of Levitical Laws:

1. Civil - Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
   1. Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
   2. Law of property redemption (Lev. 25)
   3. Be just with the poor, (Lev. 19:15)
   4. Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
   5. Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
   6. Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)
2. Ceremonial - Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
   1. Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1,2,3,4,5,6)
   2. Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
   3. Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
   4. Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57)
   5. Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
   6. Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
   7. Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25)
3. Moral - No Expiration because it is based on God's character. "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," (Lev. 19:2)
   1. Do not steal or lie (Lev. 19:11)
   2. Do not oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
   3. No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
   4. Don't sacrifice children to Molech (Lev. 20:1-5)
   5. Don't commit adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 20:9-21)
   6. You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)

Homosexuality is under the moral law category. In addition, as stated earlier, it is an abomination practiced by all people (Egypt and Canaan), not just the Israelites. Therefore, we see that the moral aspects of the Law are still in effect, but not the civil or ceremonial. Again, there were things addressed to Israel only where God said "speak to the sons of Israel saying..." These things included atonement for unintentional sins, eating habits, uncleanness, feast days, rest days, etc., which do not apply for us today.

Why is homosexuality the same as stealing, killing children, incest, etc. in your eyes? Cause someone told you it was? Where's the harm in homosexuality?

 

[Flopper]

The biggest down side of feminism being that now two incomes are required to pay the bills, thus making it quite difficult to raise a family AND children for the less educated. (aka forced to drop out of school and thus stunting their education.) The support structure we have in place for single young mothers is oft little more than religious based shame and not a lot of actual help. Though I'm at a loss how we can fix this stacking problem because the market has flown on the dual income plane and to change that would require doing things that we simply cannot do under our system.

The problem is the Government incentivizes single motherhood through the welfare state. The more you subsidize a behavior, the more you get of it. As long as single motherhood is a viable economic option, and women who have children outside of wedlock can rely on the State, this situation won't be corrected.

Well it's clearly not a viable economic option, nor is apparently working at min wage. Cutting off all welfare is not... an acceptable solution in my mind. We are a wealthy enough country to help folks in need of help out. There needs to be limits of course, and perhaps stronger limits than we have now. However, that does /nothing/ to address the underlying problem that mothers today cannot handle the supervision of their child(ren) while working, it does not address the fact that fathers are abandoning their children and dodging child support. Again, the process of shaming the single parent is not working, and I'll agree neither is just throwing money at them for eternity; we need to find a different method.

The rise in single motherhood has directly correlated with the rise of the welfare state, and federal assistance for single moms. Women have children out of wedlock because they know they will have a bailout. That isn't to say that all single motherhood will be eliminated. But it will be reduced significantly. At the end of the day, humans are economic actors, and act to maximize their resources. If women know they wont have government resources, and have to pay it all on their own, they are more likely to not get into situations that lead to children out of wedlock.

It may sound mean, but in reality, we shouldn't be expected to pick up the tab for other people's bad decisions, particularly at the federal level. In the long run everyone will be better off when this economic incentive for dysfunctional behavior is removed. It is better off for the moms, children, and the society as a whole.

Do you have data to support your claim that the rise in single motherhood has directly correlated with the rise of the welfare state, and federal assistance for single moms?

In a forthcoming study for the journal Demography, Robert Moffitt, an economist at Johns Hopkins University, details how the poorest single-parent families—80 percent of which are headed by single mothers—receive 35 percent less in government transfers than they did three decades ago. Also, the birth rate to unmarried women has been flat since 2006 and declined in 2014

How Welfare Reform Left Single Moms Behind - The Atlantic

Share of births to unmarried women dips reversing a long trend Pew Research Center

At the same time, the evidence of a link between the availability of welfare and out-of-wedlock births is overwhelming. There have been 13 major studies of the relationship between the availability of welfare benefits and out-of-wedlock birth. Of these, 11 found a statistically significant correlation. Among the best of these studies is the work done by June O’Neill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Holding constant a wide range of variables, including income, education, and urban vs. suburban setting, the study found that a 50 percent increase in the value of AFDC and foodstamp payments led to a 43 percent increase in the number of out-of-wedlock births.(7) Likewise, research by Shelley Lundberg and Robert Plotnick of the University of Washington showed that an increase in welfare benefits of $200 per month per family increased the rate of out-of-wedlock births among teenagers by 150 percent.(8)

Relationship Between the Welfare State and Crime Cato Institute

But in addition to this data, it is just common sense. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. Humans are resource maximizing beings that respond to economic signals. If women knew there wasn't a safety net where their poor decision wasn't subsidized, they would be less likely to make that poor decision. Obviously, such a program will have to phased out overtime, and you can't just cut aid to already born children. At the most, it should be a state issue, but even at my state level, I wouldn't support it because it just creates more of the problem it tries to solve.

Studies show no correlation between benefit levels and women’s choice to have children. Benefits peaked in nineties with welfare reform. Benefits have been falling steadily, yet the number of unmarried child births have been increasing.

I think it's a bit absurd to think that a child support payment of about $300/mo is going to give a single women the incentive to go through pregnancy and years of childcare without a husband to share the burden. Also, TANF payments are limited to 5 years except in special cases. They are dependent on state laws some which require at least part time work. Childcare payments beyond 5 years require that no form of welfare is paid to any adult family members of the family.

Child Recipients of Welfare AFDC TANF Child Trends

 

[Faun]

BONZI SAID:

“Living with and having sex with someone of the same sex is a choice (FACT)”

A choice entitled to Constitutional protections, immune from attack by the state (FACT).

Except sex with a same sex person isn't sex, love or tenderness. It's simple animalistic rutting and an abomination in God's eye.

Well if we're talkin' about an abomination in G-d's eye, so is:

Leviticus 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 19:5 And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will.
6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire.
7 And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted.

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord

God hates a lot of things but he doesn't particularly like fudge packers or carpet munchers.

The point is ... the righteous right like to pick and choose which "abominations" are acceptable.

 

[Faun]

Well, then you wouldn't want to discriminate against other human beings, also creations of God, according to your beliefs.

Everyone should experience and has God's love available to them.
I guess people have different definitions of love. Here is something (ironically) that showed up in my email this morning....
Today's Scripture "Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6
Thoughts for Today. In today's world, unity and tolerance have become goals within themselves. Peace at any cost. All ways lead to God. Live and let live. Such "tolerant" attitudes actually lead to intolerance of anyone who claims to have the answer.
Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to God, the only way to real peace. Indeed, in Isaiah 9:6 he is called the Prince of Peace. Although God calls us to love all people, for us to seek unity and peace by agreeing that other faiths can lead to God is to deny our own faith; and to deny Jesus.
Consider this …
As Christians, we are not expressing Christ-like love when we are willing to accept the beliefs of those who deny Christ or live sinful lifestyles as OK; all for the sake of unity and peace. We need to express Jesus' love by loving people where they are, by building relationships with them and … as the Holy Spirit leads … by sharing the truths of the Gospel with them. Jesus is the only answer.

No one has to believe this. But I hope they would and/or would consider it instead of dismissing it out of hand.

I have been on both sides (I used to be an atheist/agnostic)

So if you eat bacon you're living a sinful life... but pissing all over gays telling them they are gonna go to hell that's being a good person. Maybe put down the stones? Just sayin.

Eating bacon isn't a sin...and never was for gentiles

talking about moving the goal posts... yes eating bacon is a sin according to the bible... it's right next to gay sex acts being a sin.

It's no longer a sin, the New Covenant changed the Jewish dietary and ceremonial laws. Sorry, you can't win this one.

Not according to Jesus...

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

[Steinlight]

The problem is the Government incentivizes single motherhood through the welfare state. The more you subsidize a behavior, the more you get of it. As long as single motherhood is a viable economic option, and women who have children outside of wedlock can rely on the State, this situation won't be corrected.

Well it's clearly not a viable economic option, nor is apparently working at min wage. Cutting off all welfare is not... an acceptable solution in my mind. We are a wealthy enough country to help folks in need of help out. There needs to be limits of course, and perhaps stronger limits than we have now. However, that does /nothing/ to address the underlying problem that mothers today cannot handle the supervision of their child(ren) while working, it does not address the fact that fathers are abandoning their children and dodging child support. Again, the process of shaming the single parent is not working, and I'll agree neither is just throwing money at them for eternity; we need to find a different method.

The rise in single motherhood has directly correlated with the rise of the welfare state, and federal assistance for single moms. Women have children out of wedlock because they know they will have a bailout. That isn't to say that all single motherhood will be eliminated. But it will be reduced significantly. At the end of the day, humans are economic actors, and act to maximize their resources. If women know they wont have government resources, and have to pay it all on their own, they are more likely to not get into situations that lead to children out of wedlock.

It may sound mean, but in reality, we shouldn't be expected to pick up the tab for other people's bad decisions, particularly at the federal level. In the long run everyone will be better off when this economic incentive for dysfunctional behavior is removed. It is better off for the moms, children, and the society as a whole.

Do you have data to support your claim that the rise in single motherhood has directly correlated with the rise of the welfare state, and federal assistance for single moms?

In a forthcoming study for the journal Demography, Robert Moffitt, an economist at Johns Hopkins University, details how the poorest single-parent families—80 percent of which are headed by single mothers—receive 35 percent less in government transfers than they did three decades ago. Also, the birth rate to unmarried women has been flat since 2006 and declined in 2014

How Welfare Reform Left Single Moms Behind - The Atlantic

Share of births to unmarried women dips reversing a long trend Pew Research Center

At the same time, the evidence of a link between the availability of welfare and out-of-wedlock births is overwhelming. There have been 13 major studies of the relationship between the availability of welfare benefits and out-of-wedlock birth. Of these, 11 found a statistically significant correlation. Among the best of these studies is the work done by June O’Neill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Holding constant a wide range of variables, including income, education, and urban vs. suburban setting, the study found that a 50 percent increase in the value of AFDC and foodstamp payments led to a 43 percent increase in the number of out-of-wedlock births.(7) Likewise, research by Shelley Lundberg and Robert Plotnick of the University of Washington showed that an increase in welfare benefits of $200 per month per family increased the rate of out-of-wedlock births among teenagers by 150 percent.(8)

Relationship Between the Welfare State and Crime Cato Institute

But in addition to this data, it is just common sense. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. Humans are resource maximizing beings that respond to economic signals. If women knew there wasn't a safety net where their poor decision wasn't subsidized, they would be less likely to make that poor decision. Obviously, such a program will have to phased out overtime, and you can't just cut aid to already born children. At the most, it should be a state issue, but even at my state level, I wouldn't support it because it just creates more of the problem it tries to solve.

Studies show no correlation between benefit levels and women’s choice to have children. Benefits peaked in nineties with welfare reform. Benefits have been falling steadily, yet the number of unmarried child births have been increasing.

I think it's a bit absurd to think that a child support payment of about $300/mo is going to give a single women the incentive to go through pregnancy and years of childcare without a husband to share the burden. Also, TANF payments are limited to 5 years except in special cases. They are dependent on state laws some which require at least part time work. Childcare payments beyond 5 years require that no form of welfare is paid to any adult family members of the family.

Child Recipients of Welfare AFDC TANF Child Trends

There is a correlation according to these studies. If you have a problem with these studies and their results, including the study from the Department of Health and Human Services, than please, show where they went wrong. What specifically is wrong with their methodology? Also, single mothers don't just receive TANF, they receive WIC, EITC, SSI, section 8, Medicaid etc. They receive far more than 300 a month. For example, if a single mother with two children, making 15000 a year, will get about 5000 in food stamps. If she marries a man making identical income, she will lose those benefits. Why should she marry this man when they can be together out of wedlock and still keep the benefits?

 

[TrinityPower]

So if you eat bacon you're living a sinful life... but pissing all over gays telling them they are gonna go to hell that's being a good person.

The Levitical laws were broken into 3 groups. I won't bore you with the details (unless you want to hear them) but suffice it to say, homosexuality and it's sinfulness is addressed in both the Old and New Testament.

Am I going to say I never sin? No, of course not. To someone that doesn't believe in God, sin should not even be an issue - and for the record, I don't tell people they are going to hell. That is not my call to make. I can only tell them there is a better life for them... through Christ Jesus.

Sad to say Bonzi but they won't change their mind about this stuff. I find it heartbreaking that the US will be judged as a goat nation. I always thought there was no way America would turn their back on God and Israel but it did. I learned recently that it is taught in 8th grade health class that anal sex is totally fine. As I have said before I do not hear people who are supporting this saying yeah I am one of them, that is still too far to step out but gee I think those people OVER THERE can do what they want. No one who has an abortion is shouting it to the world and the people who have are emotionally rocked over it for the rest of their lives. This is a major shift of end times, let the chaff fall away from the wheat.

Isaiah 5:20-30New International Version (NIV)

20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.
22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine
and champions at mixing drinks,
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
but deny justice to the innocent.
24 Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw
and as dry grass sinks down in the flames,
so their roots will decay
and their flowers blow away like dust;
for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.
25 Therefore the Lord’s anger burns against his people;
his hand is raised and he strikes them down.
The mountains shake,
and the dead bodies are like refuse in the streets.
Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.
26 He lifts up a banner for the distant nations,
he whistles for those at the ends of the earth.
Here they come,
swiftly and speedily!
27 Not one of them grows tired or stumbles,
not one slumbers or sleeps;
not a belt is loosened at the waist,
not a sandal strap is broken.
28 Their arrows are sharp,
all their bows are strung;
their horses’ hooves seem like flint,
their chariot wheels like a whirlwind.
29 Their roar is like that of the lion,
they roar like young lions;
they growl as they seize their prey
and carry it off with no one to rescue.
30 In that day they will roar over it
like the roaring of the sea.
And if one looks at the land,
there is only darkness and distress;
even the sun will be darkened by clouds.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Everyone should experience and has God's love available to them.
I guess people have different definitions of love. Here is something (ironically) that showed up in my email this morning....
Today's Scripture "Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6
Thoughts for Today. In today's world, unity and tolerance have become goals within themselves. Peace at any cost. All ways lead to God. Live and let live. Such "tolerant" attitudes actually lead to intolerance of anyone who claims to have the answer.
Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to God, the only way to real peace. Indeed, in Isaiah 9:6 he is called the Prince of Peace. Although God calls us to love all people, for us to seek unity and peace by agreeing that other faiths can lead to God is to deny our own faith; and to deny Jesus.
Consider this …
As Christians, we are not expressing Christ-like love when we are willing to accept the beliefs of those who deny Christ or live sinful lifestyles as OK; all for the sake of unity and peace. We need to express Jesus' love by loving people where they are, by building relationships with them and … as the Holy Spirit leads … by sharing the truths of the Gospel with them. Jesus is the only answer.

No one has to believe this. But I hope they would and/or would consider it instead of dismissing it out of hand.

I have been on both sides (I used to be an atheist/agnostic)

So if you eat bacon you're living a sinful life... but pissing all over gays telling them they are gonna go to hell that's being a good person. Maybe put down the stones? Just sayin.

Eating bacon isn't a sin...and never was for gentiles

talking about moving the goal posts... yes eating bacon is a sin according to the bible... it's right next to gay sex acts being a sin.

It's no longer a sin, the New Covenant changed the Jewish dietary and ceremonial laws. Sorry, you can't win this one.

I see... so we are focusing on the new covenant. Good so do I.

“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” [John 8:7 KJV]

“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” [Matthew 22:37-40 KJV]

Let No One Disqualify You Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. (Colossians 2:16-19 ESV)

Think that over. He's pointing out three of the old rules and telling them to "let no one pass judgment on you regarding those rules... However, he follows with stating that these are a shadow of things to come.. IOW there may be more rules that should not be judged by man, and the substance of which should or should not be judged by man belongs to Christ, not man. You'll note he's not talking about the commandments but rather these types of jewish rules. You'll note that the rule about gays is right next to the rule about pork.

Edit to add... it's not about winning or loosing it's about throwing stones or taking a breath and asking what would Jesus say / do today, two thousand years later.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"having sex with someone of the same sex is a choice (FACT)"

That does not mean that homosexuality is a choice. Your logic fails, again.

I don't know if homosexuality is a choice or not, but, I do know ACTING on it is.
I was addressing the "having sex" part. Not the desire part.

We are made in God's image. There is no issue with homosexual intimate relations. That's only a man's hangup, not God's.

 

[EriktheRed]

Somebody better get to making some phone calls...

“Personally, same-sex marriage is a contradiction to my faith and belief that marriage is between one man and one woman,” Denton County Clerk Juli Luke said in a statement Sunday, according to the the Denton Record-Chronicle. “However, first and foremost, I took an oath on my family Bible to uphold the law, and as an elected public official, my personal belief cannot prevent me from issuing the licenses as required.”

Texas Clerk Issuing Gay Marriage Licenses In Spite of Her Faith

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

So if you eat bacon you're living a sinful life... but pissing all over gays telling them they are gonna go to hell that's being a good person.

The Levitical laws were broken into 3 groups. I won't bore you with the details (unless you want to hear them) but suffice it to say, homosexuality and it's sinfulness is addressed in both the Old and New Testament.

Am I going to say I never sin? No, of course not. To someone that doesn't believe in God, sin should not even be an issue - and for the record, I don't tell people they are going to hell. That is not my call to make. I can only tell them there is a better life for them... through Christ Jesus.

Sad to say Bonzi but they won't change their mind about this stuff. I find it heartbreaking that the US will be judged as a goat nation. I always thought there was no way America would turn their back on God and Israel but it did. I learned recently that it is taught in 8th grade health class that anal sex is totally fine. As I have said before I do not hear people who are supporting this saying yeah I am one of them, that is still too far to step out but gee I think those people OVER THERE can do what they want. No one who has an abortion is shouting it to the world and the people who have are emotionally rocked over it for the rest of their lives. This is a major shift of end times, let the chaff fall away from the wheat.

Isaiah 5:20-30New International Version (NIV)

20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.
22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine
and champions at mixing drinks,
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
but deny justice to the innocent.
24 Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw
and as dry grass sinks down in the flames,
so their roots will decay
and their flowers blow away like dust;
for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.
25 Therefore the Lord’s anger burns against his people;
his hand is raised and he strikes them down.
The mountains shake,
and the dead bodies are like refuse in the streets.
Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.
26 He lifts up a banner for the distant nations,
he whistles for those at the ends of the earth.
Here they come,
swiftly and speedily!
27 Not one of them grows tired or stumbles,
not one slumbers or sleeps;
not a belt is loosened at the waist,
not a sandal strap is broken.
28 Their arrows are sharp,
all their bows are strung;
their horses’ hooves seem like flint,
their chariot wheels like a whirlwind.
29 Their roar is like that of the lion,
they roar like young lions;
they growl as they seize their prey
and carry it off with no one to rescue.
30 In that day they will roar over it
like the roaring of the sea.
And if one looks at the land,
there is only darkness and distress;
even the sun will be darkened by clouds.

America...Love it or leave it as the conservative war monger said to the hippies in the 60s. Your turn now

Far-Right: Flee America Before God Destroys Us For Gay Marriage! Submitted by Brian Tashman on Friday, 6/26/2015 2:15 pm Religious Right activists have compared today’s gay marriage ruling to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and Pearl Harbor, warning of imminent divine judgment and civil war. “No matter what, the Court’s ruling does not upend millenia of truth,” former Rep. Michele Bachmann said. “Many Americans will choose to follow God’s ways rather than this Court and they should suffer no penalty for doing so. The Court has flung open the gate to lawsuits from those pushing the gay agenda against those who disagree with same sex marriage.” Rep. Louie Gohmert said God will withdraw his protection from America: Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, reacted with guns blzaing, calling the ruling a “civilization-changing decision that destroys our nation’s heritage of Biblical marriage. May God forgive our Supreme Court majority for its arrogance and its self-apotheosis.” - See more at: Far-Right Flee America Before God Destroys Us For Gay Marriage Right Wing Watch