Screw "Tax The Poor" Capitalism.

[The Derp]

Other people.
So how much do welfare expenses decrease?

For the same wage as the previous ones? What are you saying here? You make no sense.

Yes, if Walmart raised their wages for their workers.
The wages WalMart currently pays to current workers reduces welfare payments.

No, it doesn't. We pay $6B to provide welfare to walmart workers. If they raised the wages, we would spend less. So I am not sure what argument you're making, but it's stupid.

 

[The Derp]

So then why is it that Conservatives are the ones who give us those bubbles?
Bubbles have always happened and will always happen.

So this is your first problem. Nothing happens by accident in our economy. Everything happens for a reason. The bubbles didn't just appear out of nowhere, they were created by taking specific actions. The dotcom bubble was caused by the 1997 Capital Gains Tax Cut, and the Bush mortgage bubble was created by the deregulation of the mortgage industry and the Bush Tax Cuts.

As far as the recent bubbles, if the Internet bubble had popped a couple years earlier, we wouldn't have to hear about Clinton's awesome "surplus" and if the RE bubble had popped a couple of years later, Obama would have been a one term failure instead of a two term failure.

But we do hear about the surplus, and the Bush Mortgage Bubble popped. Nothing Clinton did led Bush's regulators to cease enforcement of lending standards for subprime loans beginning in 2004. Those regulators, who work for the Executive Branch, ceased enforcement of lending standards. That's why subprime growth exploded.

Mortgage bubbe in 2004-7 thanks to Bush deregulating the mortgage industry

You'll have to tell me more about this claim.
Do you feel that pushing banks, Fannie and Freddie to vastly expand lending to poorer people is an example of deregulation?

First of all, GSE's were prohibited from purchasing risky subprime loans thanks to a Clinton HUD rule in 2000. Bush reversed that rule in 2004, and that's why GSE's resumed purchasing risky subprimes. It should be noted, however, that GSE subprime loans performed markedly better than their private sector counterpart:

"Mortgage analyst Laurie Goodman estimated that private label securitizations issued during 2005-2007 incurred a loss rate of 24%, whereas the GSE loss rate for 2005-2007 vintage loans was closer to 4%."
​

So the GSE's and the CRA were not responsible for the Bush Mortgage Bubble that appeared in 2004 and popped by 2007.

 

[The Derp]

Newt Gingrich really held the line on Clinton's spending wishes.

Conservatives lost the shutdown battle and had to accept the extra $300B of spending Clinton had in his budget.

 

[The Derp]

Conservatives loved a guy who had a centrally planned and managed economy under a totalitarian dictatorship that denied individual rights and instead provided only group privilege?

Yep. They loved his racism and antisemitism. Not much has changed for Conservatives since.

If that's true, why do Conservatives not back the democrats who follow the identical platform today?

Democrats do not have that platform.

 

[The Derp]

Wait, you're claiming the housing bubble started in 2004?

It did start in 2004.

When you look at this chart, what is it you see?

 

[The Derp]

Soros is a fascist. He promotes the agenda of fascism. Your abject ignorance is irrelevant.

Explain how Soros is a fascist, but Trump using the Presidency to enrich his businesses is not?

I'll give you a hint sparky, the one who told you that "fascist" means "conservative" was lying to you. You may be astounded to find that Mussolini was not an advocate of property rights and free market economics....

Fascist = Conservative = Teabag = "Libertarian" = Klansman = Republican

 

[The Derp]

yet, the right wing prefers to claim cutting taxes isAlways the solution,
And cutting spending....a lot.

Hold on, though...tax cuts were originally pitched as "paying for themselves". If you are now saying that spending has to be cut in order for tax cuts to work (?), then that means there is no economic benefit to cutting taxes. Which means there is another reason Conservatives want to do so...that reason is to manufacture budget deficits that are then used as an excuse to cut spending. Those spending cuts are almost always operational, and cause programs to fail. Then Conservatives point to those failing programs as an excuse to sell them off to private interests who profit off them at our expense, while not producing any better outcomes than before. You can look at private prisons and charter schools to see the failure of right-wing ideology in action.

 

[The Derp]

Yep, UNFUNDED TAX CUTS,
I agree, Bush should have cut spending when he cut taxes.

Why? Spending has nothing to do with the effect of tax cuts. You are saying that in order for tax cuts "to work", spending has to be cut? How so? Your argument makes no fucking sense. So you are saying tax cuts don't pay for themselves by way of increased consumption, and that spending has to be cut because...because...why?

OBAMACARES 2013-2020, WHICH WAS 100% FUNDED
Yeah, great plan, imploding as we speak.

If it is imploding (which it isn't), it's because Conservatives are taking deliberate actions to sabotage it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How did Bush and those mean Republicans weaken underwriting standards?

By not enforcing them. Regulators work for the Executive Branch. Who runs the Executive Branch?

By not enforcing them

Which standards did they not enforce wrt Countrywide, for instance?

 

[The Derp]

Which standards did they not enforce wrt Countrywide, for instance?

Take your pick; no income verification, robo-signing, some subprimes issued didn't even have names on whose loan it was. Wall Street was churning out as many subprimes as they could so they could package those subprimes into securities to sell on the secondary and tertiary mortgage markets. That's how those markets got inflated so quickly.

Go watch The Big Short. It does a fantastic job of explaining how the subprime bubble started, how it grew, and how it popped. It's on Netflix now. Should be required viewing for every American.

Plus, it's got Margot Robbie in a bathtub...so there's that:

 

[Uncensored2008]

Conservatives loved a guy who had a centrally planned and managed economy under a totalitarian dictatorship that denied individual rights and instead provided only group privilege?

Yep. They loved his racism and antisemitism. Not much has changed for Conservatives since.

If that's true, why do Conservatives not back the democrats who follow the identical platform today?

Democrats do not have that platform.

So we will find conservatives of the time praising Hitler? Do tell?

Of course leading PROGRESSIVES are a different story. Darling of the Progressive Left Henry Ford FAWNED over Hitler. Radical Left Priest and close confidant of FDR, Father Charles Coughlin thought Hitler was the best man ever born, he shared the vision of how humans should be dealt with. Open Communist Eugene Debs praised Hitler as the leader the world needed. And of course Huey Long, the Marxist Labor leader of "Share the Wealth" was a vocal advocate of Hitler.

In fact, your Big Lie trying to convert Fascism to Conservatism didn't even start until academics in the 1950's were desperate to justify their continued preaching of Marxism in the face of the never ending atrocities committed by their beloved Marxists.

Your Big Lie has failed. Fascism is a form of socialism, always was, always will be.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wait, you're claiming the housing bubble started in 2004?

It did start in 2004.

When you look at this chart, what is it you see?

A dip in 2000 due to the Clinton recession, followed by a rapidly expanding bubble.starting in 2001.

What do you see, a pony? A dragon? Santa Claus?

 

[sealybobo]

We need to work on, finding the "weak point" on the right wing

We need to work on good will to man. End the practice of labor exploitation, not find ways to preserve it.

Ok. How about, equal protection of the law regarding the legal concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation on an at-will basis.

No. You are simply looking for a way to preserve the current system. You are currently losing that battle and what "progress" has been made has proven to be unsustainable.

Not sure why you believe that. It is about, equal protection of the law, for the "poor".

To keep them poor you mean. That is what you are accomplishing, and dependence on the government. While the capital class continues to consolidate wealth and political power.

But you are giving the rich who don't need them tax breaks and shifting the tax burden on the masses, all while cutting social services and programs that benefit the poor.

 

[The Derp]

So we will find conservatives of the time praising Hitler? Do tell?

Here ya go!

In February 1939 Kuhn and the Bund held their largest rally in Madison Square Garden—ironically, one which marked the beginning of the end for the organization. In front of a crowd of 22,000, flanked by a massive portrait of George Washington, swastikas and Americans flags, Kuhn attacked President Roosevelt for being part of a Bolshevik-Jewish conspiracy, calling him “Frank D. Rosenfeld” and calling his New Deal the “Jew Deal”. Three thousands members of the Ordnungsdienst, the militant arm of the Bund, were on hand and fistfights broke out in the crowd among those who had come to heckle Kuhn.​

Here's a terrific book that goes into detail at how the Conservatives loved Hitler so much, they tried to prevent the US from getting involved in WWII.

Of course leading PROGRESSIVES are a different story. Darling of the Progressive Left Henry Ford FAWNED over Hitler. Radical Left Priest and close confidant of FDR, Father Charles Coughlin thought Hitler was the best man ever born, he shared the vision of how humans should be dealt with. Open Communist Eugene Debs praised Hitler as the leader the world needed. And of course Huey Long, the Marxist Labor leader of "Share the Wealth" was a vocal advocate of Hitler.

Father Coughlin was no ally of FDR. In fact, Coghlin would routinely take to the airwaves to rail against Roosevelt's New Deal starting in 1934. You don't know anything. Why are you just making stuff up???? Such a liar.

Your Big Lie has failed. Fascism is a form of socialism, always was, always will be.

No, it's not. Fascism and socialism are two completely different things. You don't know anything, yet you still exercise sophistry. The simplest of Google searches undermines every point you make...like how you made a lying point about the MW being raised in Seattle. You deliberately did not use Seattle's current unemployment rate, choosing instead to use a link that is 15 months old to make the false argument that Seattle's MW increase led to unemployment. It didn't. So you lied. So if you lied about that, why would you be telling the truth about anything else???

 

[The Derp]

A dip in 2000 due to the Clinton recession, followed by a rapidly expanding bubble.starting in 2001.

How do you get that from this chart that shows just subprime mortgage origination? You don't know anything you are talking about. You're just a bullshitter, aren't you?? You pretend to know about economics, but you don't, do you? You're just posturing and pretending on an internet board because you are so insecure you need validation. Pathetic.

What do you see, a pony? A dragon? Santa Clause?

I see a subprime bubble appearing in 2004. Look at the chart again. Actually read it this time:

So that doesn't show anything about the economy or recessions. This chart shows just subprime mortgage originations. And as you see, it remained pretty consistent and steady until 2004, when it shot upward.

You have no response to this chart because it demolishes your attempt to blame Clinton for the mortgage bubble, when the blame lies squarely on Conservatives who were running the show in 2004.

 

[The Derp]

A dip in 2000 due to the Clinton recession, followed by a rapidly expanding bubble.starting in 2001.
What do you see, a pony? A dragon? Santa Claus?

I think you need glasses because this chart does not show that. This chart shows subprime mortgage origination. Clearly you can see that those origination spike beginning in 2004. I think you recognize that but are trying to pretend the chart says something else when it doesn't. You do that because you are not an honest person and because you have nothing to support your failed belief system, which I am taking apart here with every post.

 

[The Derp]

A dip in 2000 due to the Clinton recession, followed by a rapidly expanding bubble.starting in 2001.
What do you see, a pony? A dragon? Santa Claus?

So were you deliberately misreading and misunderstanding that chart because you don't want to admit you are wrong? Because that's how it's coming across.

Also, no atonement from you on the lie about Seattle's MW either. You tried to lie on the board and say that after Seattle's MW hike, they had job loss, but you failed to use current numbers, choosing instead to use a link from 15 months ago that is no longer relevant.

BTW - Seattle's unemployment rate is nearly a full point lower today than it was one year ago.

Will you admit you deliberately attempted to deceive? Of course not. Because you are a shameless fraud.

 

[Tehon]

We need to work on good will to man. End the practice of labor exploitation, not find ways to preserve it.

Ok. How about, equal protection of the law regarding the legal concept of employment at will, for unemployment compensation on an at-will basis.

No. You are simply looking for a way to preserve the current system. You are currently losing that battle and what "progress" has been made has proven to be unsustainable.

Not sure why you believe that. It is about, equal protection of the law, for the "poor".

To keep them poor you mean. That is what you are accomplishing, and dependence on the government. While the capital class continues to consolidate wealth and political power.

But you are giving the rich who don't need them tax breaks and shifting the tax burden on the masses, all while cutting social services and programs that benefit the poor.

No I'm not, lol. I'm advocating an end to the system of labor exploitation known as capitalism.

 

[The Derp]

No I'm not, lol. I'm advocating an end to the system of labor exploitation known as capitalism.

Good luck trying to explain anything to these frauds. Conservatives lie constantly, exercise sophistry, and willfully and deliberately mislead because their arguments cannot stand on their merits. Every single Conservative posting on this thread is a fraud. And they know it.

 

[sealybobo]

No I'm not, lol. I'm advocating an end to the system of labor exploitation known as capitalism.

Good luck trying to explain anything to these frauds. Conservatives lie constantly, exercise sophistry, and willfully and deliberately mislead because their arguments cannot stand on their merits. Every single Conservative posting on this thread is a fraud. And they know it.

I'm a liberal too. Can't be too hard to convince me. I agree we need to break capitalism. Do you know how to do that? You stop having lots of babies. When we do that then the American corporations that run our government will tell the government to give families tax breaks for having kids and corporations will start paying parents a wage that promotes having more kids. If we keep pumping out cheap labor and consumers they'll never stop fucking us.