Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch

[jon_berzerk]

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...tle-grazing-in-Gold-Butte-area-11-29-2010.pdf
read that pdf for more info on what has been going on. It is a pdf.

You've posted that PDF quite a number of times already. It's the letter threatening a lawsuit that triggered the enforcement of the already standing court order.

It doesn't have anything to do with whether the land in question is state owned or federally owned, nor does it really have anything to do with anything I've said.

Actually, it says that Clark County purchased the Bunkerville Allotment for $375,000, and retired it for the sake of a desert land tortoise. So, Bundy would be correct that the 250 square mile allotment does in fact belong to the State of Nevada, not to the Federal government. Believe it or not, like it or not, Bundy has a case.

"In December, 1998 Clark County purchased the grazing rights to the Bunkerville Allotment for $375,000 and retired them for the benefit and protection of the desert tortoise."

-Via depotoo's PDF

it is state land

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Irrelevant? No coincidence at all? Seriously?

Ok, I have lost the link showingvhow much Ofvthisvwas privwte land tgey have taken over to develop a conservati8n area. Will look later today and post it. Here is a little about what is going with it from a bill passed - MESQUITE, NV – Protect Nevada, a broad coalition of community and business leaders and conservation organizations, cheered Congressman Steven Horsford today for introducing legislation to protect Gold Butte and to boost the local economy surrounding this iconic landscape.“Congressman Horsford really listens to local citizens and has demonstrated that in this legislation,” said Nancy Hall, executive director of Friends of Gold Butte.* “We are hopeful that the local stakeholders will join us at the table to ensure its swift passage.”Congressman Horsford’s bill mirrors Senator Reid’s Gold Butte National Conservation Area Act with protections for Gold Butte.* It will designate a nearly 350,000-acre National Conservation Area (NCA) with 129,500 acres of wilderness on public lands just south of Mesquite.* In addition, 92,000 acres of lands currently being managed as wilderness within the Lake Mead National Recreation Area will be formally designated.

Gold Butte Protection and Economic Development Bill Introduced in the House | Friends of Gold Butte

It's entirely irrelevant, because that law hasn't actually passed.

It's just a bill, not a law.

Whether or not that bill passes (and it likely won't), Bundy has still be actively and openly disobeying the law for more than 20 years. That is entirely separate from any possible conservation areas that may be designated in the future.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You've posted that PDF quite a number of times already. It's the letter threatening a lawsuit that triggered the enforcement of the already standing court order.

It doesn't have anything to do with whether the land in question is state owned or federally owned, nor does it really have anything to do with anything I've said.

Actually, it says that Clark County purchased the Bunkerville Allotment for $375,000, and retired it for the sake of a desert land tortoise. So, Bundy would be correct that the 250 square mile allotment does in fact belong to the State of Nevada, not to the Federal government. Believe it or not, like it or not, Bundy has a case.

"In December, 1998 Clark County purchased the grazing rights to the Bunkerville Allotment for $375,000 and retired them for the benefit and protection of the desert tortoise."

-Via depotoo's PDF

it is state land

No, it's not. It's simply fucking not. It's federal land, and always has been. The state of Nevada has NEVER owned it.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

To put it simply, the federal government owns 80% of Nevada because no one else wanted it.

Yet we are in an armed stand off over land nobody supposedly wants. The feds aren't going to do anything with it, Bundy is willing to graze cattle and provide food on it, Nevada could get some grazing fees out of it which he has paid. So once again why are the feds involved here?

1. The entire issue is that he's refusing to pay the grazing fees.

2. Are you suggesting that the federal government should just donate the land to the state? I don't think they want it.

He's paying his fees to Nevada, he is no longer paying fees to the feds for land he used to have access to but is now denied because of some stupid turtle the feds used as an excuse to kick him off of.

I don't think the feds should have ever owned it in the first place.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Easy, simply amend that to "Grazing on these lands is not permitted without proper documentation" it isn't that hard.

There's no sign because there is no possible reason that someone would think it was OK to graze their cattle there without permission.

If you don't own the land, or don't have a lease for it, you simply can't graze your cattle there, even if there isn't a sign specifically telling you that.

You just stated that nobody wants that land so why would anyone care if some cattle graze on it?

There's an abandoned lot down the street from my house. Does that mean I can just go build a house on it?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Clark County bought the grazing rights after the court order vacated Bundy's grazing rights, and retired them.

That's actually the funniest part of this whole story - Bundy keeps talking about how he's willing to pay the county, yet the county decided to retire the grazing rights to the area rather than let another rancher lease them.

So, why is the Federal Government involved?

Because they own the damn land.

Why can't you fucking understand that? Grazing rights are not the same as the land itself.

The Feds owning the land isn't at issue. The fact that Clark County still has the grazing rights to that allotment is, so you can understand why Bundy wanted to pay his fees to the County and not the Country. Hence, Nevada has the ability to settle this issue. They can still exercise those rights anytime they choose to, and allow for Bundy to graze on that land for the fee required.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Yet we are in an armed stand off over land nobody supposedly wants. The feds aren't going to do anything with it, Bundy is willing to graze cattle and provide food on it, Nevada could get some grazing fees out of it which he has paid. So once again why are the feds involved here?

1. The entire issue is that he's refusing to pay the grazing fees.

2. Are you suggesting that the federal government should just donate the land to the state? I don't think they want it.

He's paying his fees to Nevada, he is no longer paying fees to the feds for land he used to have access to but is now denied because of some stupid turtle the feds used as an excuse to kick him off of.

I don't think the feds should have ever owned it in the first place.

He's not paying any fees to Nevada. He's said that he would, but they won't take it, because (wait for it)....


THEY DON'T OWN THE DAMN LAND

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So, why is the Federal Government involved?

Because they own the damn land.

Why can't you fucking understand that? Grazing rights are not the same as the land itself.

The Feds owning the land isn't at issue. The fact that Clark County still has the grazing rights to that allotment is.

Yes. Clark County bought the grazing rights out from under Bundy - and then permanently retired them. As in, they paid to end grazing on that land, for ever.

The county doesn't want Bundy grazing their, either.

The Federal Government is involved because there were almost a thousand pairs of cattle illegally grazing on land they own.

 

[jon_berzerk]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTRvMo8Ksfg#t=185[/ame]

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Actually, it says that Clark County purchased the Bunkerville Allotment for $375,000, and retired it for the sake of a desert land tortoise. So, Bundy would be correct that the 250 square mile allotment does in fact belong to the State of Nevada, not to the Federal government. Believe it or not, like it or not, Bundy has a case.

"In December, 1998 Clark County purchased the grazing rights to the Bunkerville Allotment for $375,000 and retired them for the benefit and protection of the desert tortoise."

-Via depotoo's PDF

it is state land

No, it's not. It's simply fucking not. It's federal land, and always has been. The state of Nevada has NEVER owned it.

Jesus Christ.

Why do the feds own it? It should have always been state land why are the feds hanging onto it if it does nothing for them and is a pain in the ass to manage?

I just don't get the logic in land being so worthless that nobody wants it yet the feds think it's valuable enough to send 200 armed agents to take it away from someone who actually found a use for it. It's not like he's building cities here. His cattle eat the grass that grows out there for free. It costs nobody in the US a dime for this to happen.

Why the fuck am I paying taxes for an army to go out there and round up this guys fucking cows?

 

[Howey]

What land grab???? The land in question has never belonged to the Bundy family. The feds are clearing his cattle off of public land.

Who grabbed any land?

Exactly! And now there are dozens of gun toting vigilantes there trying to bully the Feds. This rancher has not paid the fee to graze his cattle for decades. You law abiding Republicans are advocating for someone to continue to break the law. HYPOCRITES....again.

I see where the rw'ers homepage (Drudge ) has been fanning the flames of this rw fauxrage.

It's hilarious. They read this crap on Infowars so it's just gotta be true!!!!!

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Because they own the damn land.

Why can't you fucking understand that? Grazing rights are not the same as the land itself.

The Feds owning the land isn't at issue. The fact that Clark County still has the grazing rights to that allotment is.

Yes. Clark County bought the grazing rights out from under Bundy - and then permanently retired them. As in, they paid to end grazing on that land, for ever.

The county doesn't want Bundy grazing their, either.

The Federal Government is involved because there were almost a thousand pairs of cattle illegally grazing on land they own.

And basically putting him out of business for a turtle that has survived just fine along the families cattle operation for 140 years. And now they are killing off turtles because there are too many.

So once again, what is the governments problem here?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Feds owning the land isn't at issue. The fact that Clark County still has the grazing rights to that allotment is.

Yes. Clark County bought the grazing rights out from under Bundy - and then permanently retired them. As in, they paid to end grazing on that land, for ever.

The county doesn't want Bundy grazing their, either.

The Federal Government is involved because there were almost a thousand pairs of cattle illegally grazing on land they own.

And basically putting him out of business for a turtle that has survived just fine along the families cattle operation for 140 years. And now they are killing off turtles because there are too many.

So once again, what is the governments problem here?

The turtle has nothing to do with why Bundys cattle have been removed from the land they were grazing on.

 

[depotoo]

Gold Butte NCA/Wilderness bill | IH8MUD Forum

this is nothing but politics and the Sierra Club is also very involved and hold big bucks for those that help them out.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

There's no sign because there is no possible reason that someone would think it was OK to graze their cattle there without permission.

If you don't own the land, or don't have a lease for it, you simply can't graze your cattle there, even if there isn't a sign specifically telling you that.

You just stated that nobody wants that land so why would anyone care if some cattle graze on it?

There's an abandoned lot down the street from my house. Does that mean I can just go build a house on it?

No, but you sure as hell could put a cow on it to eat the free grass it has. Building a house makes the land unusable to anyone but you. A cow mowing the lawn? Not so much.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Gold Butte NCA/Wilderness bill | IH8MUD Forum

this is nothing but politics and the Sierra Club is also very involved and hold big bucks for those that help them out.

Whatever conspiracy you chose to believe in, it doesn't change the fact that he's been actively and admittedly breaking the law for more than 20 years.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You just stated that nobody wants that land so why would anyone care if some cattle graze on it?

There's an abandoned lot down the street from my house. Does that mean I can just go build a house on it?

No, but you sure as hell could put a cow on it to eat the free grass it has. Building a house makes the land unusable to anyone but you. A cow mowing the lawn? Not so much.

Do you really think that It would be legal for me to keep livestock on someone else's property without permission, even if they themselves didn't want to do anything with the land?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Yes. Clark County bought the grazing rights out from under Bundy - and then permanently retired them. As in, they paid to end grazing on that land, for ever.

The county doesn't want Bundy grazing their, either.

The Federal Government is involved because there were almost a thousand pairs of cattle illegally grazing on land they own.

And basically putting him out of business for a turtle that has survived just fine along the families cattle operation for 140 years. And now they are killing off turtles because there are too many.

So once again, what is the governments problem here?

The turtle has nothing to do with why Bundys cattle have been removed from the land they were grazing on.

Clark county bought the grazing rights so they could kick this guy out for the damn turtle. The grazing land was taken from them because the stupid fucking turtle was the governments excuse to do so. The turtle was the hammer the government used so yes turtles have everything to do with this.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

And basically putting him out of business for a turtle that has survived just fine along the families cattle operation for 140 years. And now they are killing off turtles because there are too many.

So once again, what is the governments problem here?

The turtle has nothing to do with why Bundys cattle have been removed from the land they were grazing on.

Clark county bought the grazing rights so they could kick this guy out for the damn turtle. The grazing land was taken from them because the stupid fucking turtle was the governments excuse to do so. The turtle was the hammer the government used so yes turtles have everything to do with this.

No. He lost the grazing rights because he refused to pay for them - and then the county bought them.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

There's an abandoned lot down the street from my house. Does that mean I can just go build a house on it?

No, but you sure as hell could put a cow on it to eat the free grass it has. Building a house makes the land unusable to anyone but you. A cow mowing the lawn? Not so much.

Do you really think that It would be legal for me to keep livestock on someone else's property without permission, even if they themselves didn't want to do anything with the land?

You said abandoned land. So does the property down the street from you automatically become federal land? Obviously nobody wants it so it defaults to the feds?