Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch

[TemplarKormac]

100% of the land that Bundy's cattle were grazing on was BLM land. I don't know what you're referring to in terms of your links, which are almost entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You know, it would answer a lot of questions if we could actually see the boundaries in question. So far we've been working with stats. Before 1993, Bundy originally had grazing rights over 158,600 acres of land.

Actually, he technically had grazing rights over that land until 1998, when the courts finally ruled against him.

The problem with determining the "borders" is that there aren't any fences, and cows tend to be mobile. That's why his cattle are now spread out over an area more than twice that large.

So, isn't it the BLM's responsibility to cordon off areas that are off limits to grazing? Their lack of oversight in the area could be construed as general disinterest. No wonder people are so up in arms about it. The BLM is woefully understaffed in the Gold Butte area and can scarcely maintain it.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You know, it would answer a lot of questions if we could actually see the boundaries in question. So far we've been working with stats. Before 1993, Bundy originally had grazing rights over 158,600 acres of land.

Actually, he technically had grazing rights over that land until 1998, when the courts finally ruled against him.

The problem with determining the "borders" is that there aren't any fences, and cows tend to be mobile. That's why his cattle are now spread out over an area more than twice that large.

So, isn't it the BLM's responsibility to cordon off areas that are off limits to grazing?

What are you referring to? What "areas that are off limits to grazing?"

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You know, it would answer a lot of questions if we could actually see the boundaries in question. So far we've been working with stats. Before 1993, Bundy originally had grazing rights over 158,600 acres of land.

Actually, he technically had grazing rights over that land until 1998, when the courts finally ruled against him.

The problem with determining the "borders" is that there aren't any fences, and cows tend to be mobile. That's why his cattle are now spread out over an area more than twice that large.

So, isn't it the BLM's responsibility to cordon off areas that are off limits to grazing? Their lack of oversight in the area could be construed as general disinterest. No wonder people are so up in arms about it. The BLM is woefully understaffed in the Gold Butte area and can scarcely maintain it.

Maintenance of BLM land isn't a really big job. It's barren wasteland. There's not really much to maintain - and that's why he's been able to get away with it for so long.

But if you think BLM should get more funding, feel free to write your congressman about it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Actually, he technically had grazing rights over that land until 1998, when the courts finally ruled against him.

The problem with determining the "borders" is that there aren't any fences, and cows tend to be mobile. That's why his cattle are now spread out over an area more than twice that large.

So, isn't it the BLM's responsibility to cordon off areas that are off limits to grazing?

What are you referring to? What "areas that are off limits to grazing?"

Um, haven't we been trying to find that out for the past couple of days? If we don't know what areas were off limits to his cows, then how could his cows have been deemed "trespass animals" by the government? Where were they trespassing?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So, isn't it the BLM's responsibility to cordon off areas that are off limits to grazing?

What are you referring to? What "areas that are off limits to grazing?"

Um, haven't we been trying to find that out for the past couple of days? If we don't know what areas were off limits to his cows, then how could his cows have been deemed "trespass animals" by the government? Where were they trespassing?

They were deemed "trespass animals" after he lost the grazing rights entirely.

At that point, all BLM land in Nevada was "off limits" to his cattle.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Actually, he technically had grazing rights over that land until 1998, when the courts finally ruled against him.

The problem with determining the "borders" is that there aren't any fences, and cows tend to be mobile. That's why his cattle are now spread out over an area more than twice that large.

So, isn't it the BLM's responsibility to cordon off areas that are off limits to grazing? Their lack of oversight in the area could be construed as general disinterest. No wonder people are so up in arms about it. The BLM is woefully understaffed in the Gold Butte area and can scarcely maintain it.

Maintenance of BLM land isn't a really big job. It's barren wasteland. There's not really much to maintain - and that's why he's been able to get away with it for so long.

But if you think BLM should get more funding, feel free to write your congressman about it.

You'd be surprised what is there to maintain.

Historical Resources | Friends of Gold Butte

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So, isn't it the BLM's responsibility to cordon off areas that are off limits to grazing? Their lack of oversight in the area could be construed as general disinterest. No wonder people are so up in arms about it. The BLM is woefully understaffed in the Gold Butte area and can scarcely maintain it.

Maintenance of BLM land isn't a really big job. It's barren wasteland. There's not really much to maintain - and that's why he's been able to get away with it for so long.

But if you think BLM should get more funding, feel free to write your congressman about it.

You'd be surprised what is there to maintain.

Historical Resources | Friends of Gold Butte

Sure, there's a lot to maintain if you're a hippy-dippy environmental and historical group dedicated to the area.

Not so much in the eyes of the federal government, though.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What are you referring to? What "areas that are off limits to grazing?"

Um, haven't we been trying to find that out for the past couple of days? If we don't know what areas were off limits to his cows, then how could his cows have been deemed "trespass animals" by the government? Where were they trespassing?

They were deemed "trespass animals" after he lost the grazing rights entirely.

At that point, all BLM land in Nevada was "off limits" to his cattle.

If you don't designate what is and isn't BLM land, say with proper signage, how can anyone know where to and not to graze? And why Gold Butte? It is as you said a "barren wasteland," why would they be so adamant about protecting such a place?

 

[depotoo]

What land grab???? The land in question has never belonged to the Bundy family. The feds are clearing his cattle off of public land.

Who grabbed any land?

This land is state land, not federal government land , so ask yourself what in the hell is the Feds doing there? Also that they have been there for 140 years as ranchers raises a lot of eyebrows.

It's not state land, it's federal land.

BLM doesn't manage state land.

The*Bureau of Land Management*(BLM) is an agency within the*United States Department of the Interior*that administers America's*public lands, totaling approximately 247.3 million acres, or one-eighth of the landmass of the country.[1]*The BLM also manages 700*million acres (2,800,000*km2) of subsurface mineral estate underlying federal, state, and private lands.*
From wiki

 

[TemplarKormac]

Maintenance of BLM land isn't a really big job. It's barren wasteland. There's not really much to maintain - and that's why he's been able to get away with it for so long.

But if you think BLM should get more funding, feel free to write your congressman about it.

You'd be surprised what is there to maintain.

Historical Resources | Friends of Gold Butte

Sure, there's a lot to maintain if you're a hippy-dippy environmental and historical group dedicated to the area.

Not so much in the eyes of the federal government, though.

So I have to think that given the government's previous lack of interest in the area, why would they all of a sudden come down with all deliberate legal force on a rancher over an area that receives little if any upkeep from the BLM?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Um, haven't we been trying to find that out for the past couple of days? If we don't know what areas were off limits to his cows, then how could his cows have been deemed "trespass animals" by the government? Where were they trespassing?

They were deemed "trespass animals" after he lost the grazing rights entirely.

At that point, all BLM land in Nevada was "off limits" to his cattle.

If you don't designate what is and isn't BLM land, say with proper signage, how can anyone know where to and not to graze? And why Gold Butte? It is as you said a "barren wasteland," why would they be so adamant about protecting such a place?

For the most part in Nevada, BLM land is marked by a lack of signs. If you see barren desert with no fences around it, it's BLM land.

Something close to 50% of the state is BLM land.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You'd be surprised what is there to maintain.

Historical Resources | Friends of Gold Butte

Sure, there's a lot to maintain if you're a hippy-dippy environmental and historical group dedicated to the area.

Not so much in the eyes of the federal government, though.

So I have to think that given the government's previous lack of interest in the area, why would they all of a sudden come down with all deliberate legal force on a rancher over an area that receives little if any upkeep from the BLM?

What "previous lack of interest" are you talking about?

Prior to the last 20 years of legal battles, the Bundys had no problem paying their grazing fees. Why would BLM have any "interest" then?

 

[TemplarKormac]

They were deemed "trespass animals" after he lost the grazing rights entirely.

At that point, all BLM land in Nevada was "off limits" to his cattle.

If you don't designate what is and isn't BLM land, say with proper signage, how can anyone know where to and not to graze? And why Gold Butte? It is as you said a "barren wasteland," why would they be so adamant about protecting such a place?

For the most part in Nevada, BLM land is marked by a lack of signs. If you see barren desert with no fences around it, it's BLM land.

Something close to 50% of the state is BLM land.

So that's like saying we're supposed to stop at a four way intersection for the lack of a stop sign or a red light.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

This land is state land, not federal government land , so ask yourself what in the hell is the Feds doing there? Also that they have been there for 140 years as ranchers raises a lot of eyebrows.

It's not state land, it's federal land.

BLM doesn't manage state land.

The*Bureau of Land Management*(BLM) is an agency within the*United States Department of the Interior*that administers America's*public lands, totaling approximately 247.3 million acres, or one-eighth of the landmass of the country.[1]*The BLM also manages 700*million acres (2,800,000*km2) of subsurface mineral estate underlying federal, state, and private lands.*
From wiki

Are you claiming that Bundys cattle were grazing on underground minerals under private land?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

If you don't designate what is and isn't BLM land, say with proper signage, how can anyone know where to and not to graze? And why Gold Butte? It is as you said a "barren wasteland," why would they be so adamant about protecting such a place?

For the most part in Nevada, BLM land is marked by a lack of signs. If you see barren desert with no fences around it, it's BLM land.

Something close to 50% of the state is BLM land.

So that's like saying we're supposed to stop at a four way intersection for the lack of a stop sign.

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Anyone who lives out west understands what BLM land is, and what the rules are for it.

For the most part, there aren't any. You can pretty much do whatever you want on BLM land, in terms of personal actions.

If you want to graze your commercial cattle, you have to have a lease, and pay a grazing fee though.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

You are all focusing on the wrong question here.

Why does the federal government own 85% of any state? How can the tenth amendment ever stand when the feds own 85% of the state? The feds should never be the owners of any land within a state other than DC.

If it wasn't for that problem situations like this wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

 

[depotoo]

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...tle-grazing-in-Gold-Butte-area-11-29-2010.pdf
read that pdf for more info on what has been going on. It is a pdf.

It's not state land, it's federal land.

BLM doesn't manage state land.

The*Bureau of Land Management*(BLM) is an agency within the*United States Department of the Interior*that administers America's*public lands, totaling approximately 247.3 million acres, or one-eighth of the landmass of the country.[1]*The BLM also manages 700*million acres (2,800,000*km2) of subsurface mineral estate underlying federal, state, and private lands.*
From wiki

Are you claiming that Bundys cattle were grazing on underground minerals under private land?

 

[TemplarKormac]

For the most part in Nevada, BLM land is marked by a lack of signs. If you see barren desert with no fences around it, it's BLM land.

Something close to 50% of the state is BLM land.

So that's like saying we're supposed to stop at a four way intersection for the lack of a stop sign.

I don't understand what you mean.

Okay, I thought that was rather straightforward.

What I'm trying to say is, if we need a stop sign to tell us to stop at an intersection, the BLM needs to have signs and fences indicating where it's land is. Something like:

"WARNING: These are federally protected lands, grazing in this area is not permitted under any circumstance. Violators will punished under the fullest extent of the law. *insert applicable Federal statutes here*"

 

[theDoctorisIn]

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...tle-grazing-in-Gold-Butte-area-11-29-2010.pdf
read that pdf for more info on what has been going on. It is a pdf.

The*Bureau of Land Management*(BLM) is an agency within the*United States Department of the Interior*that administers America's*public lands, totaling approximately 247.3 million acres, or one-eighth of the landmass of the country.[1]*The BLM also manages 700*million acres (2,800,000*km2) of subsurface mineral estate underlying federal, state, and private lands.*
From wiki

Are you claiming that Bundys cattle were grazing on underground minerals under private land?

You've posted that PDF quite a number of times already. It's the letter threatening a lawsuit that triggered the enforcement of the already standing court order.

It doesn't have anything to do with whether the land in question is state owned or federally owned, nor does it really have anything to do with anything I've said.