Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch

[TemplarKormac]

Because they own the damn land.

Why can't you fucking understand that? Grazing rights are not the same as the land itself.

The Feds owning the land isn't at issue. The fact that Clark County still has the grazing rights to that allotment is.

Yes. Clark County bought the grazing rights out from under Bundy - and then permanently retired them. As in, they paid to end grazing on that land, for ever.

The county doesn't want Bundy grazing their, either.

The Federal Government is involved because there were almost a thousand pairs of cattle illegally grazing on land they own.

Under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, Clark County can at any time choose to renew those rights. They are still the permittee, and have all the cards in their hand.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

The turtle has nothing to do with why Bundys cattle have been removed from the land they were grazing on.

Clark county bought the grazing rights so they could kick this guy out for the damn turtle. The grazing land was taken from them because the stupid fucking turtle was the governments excuse to do so. The turtle was the hammer the government used so yes turtles have everything to do with this.

No. He lost the grazing rights because he refused to pay for them - and then the county bought them.

You just told me that Clark county bought the rights out from under him. He didn't refuse to pay they took it away for a turtle refuge. Didn't we already establish that?

 

[jon_berzerk]

it is state land

No, it's not. It's simply fucking not. It's federal land, and always has been. The state of Nevada has NEVER owned it.

Jesus Christ.

Why do the feds own it? It should have always been state land why are the feds hanging onto it if it does nothing for them and is a pain in the ass to manage?

I just don't get the logic in land being so worthless that nobody wants it yet the feds think it's valuable enough to send 200 armed agents to take it away from someone who actually found a use for it. It's not like he's building cities here. His cattle eat the grass that grows out there for free. It costs nobody in the US a dime for this to happen.

Why the fuck am I paying taxes for an army to go out there and round up this guys fucking cows?

The turtle has nothing to do with why Bundys cattle have been removed from the land they were grazing on.

Clark county bought the grazing rights so they could kick this guy out for the damn turtle. The grazing land was taken from them because the stupid fucking turtle was the governments excuse to do so. The turtle was the hammer the government used so yes turtles have everything to do with this.

No. He lost the grazing rights because he refused to pay for them - and then the county bought them.

no he paid clark county for the grazing rights

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Feds owning the land isn't at issue. The fact that Clark County still has the grazing rights to that allotment is.

Yes. Clark County bought the grazing rights out from under Bundy - and then permanently retired them. As in, they paid to end grazing on that land, for ever.

The county doesn't want Bundy grazing their, either.

The Federal Government is involved because there were almost a thousand pairs of cattle illegally grazing on land they own.

Under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, Clark County can at any time choose to renew those rights. They are still the permittee, and have all the cards in their hand.

It's possible, but why would they?

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that Clark County is supporting Bundy in this - that's not the case.

The county has already retired those rights to protect the tortoise.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No, it's not. It's simply fucking not. It's federal land, and always has been. The state of Nevada has NEVER owned it.

Jesus Christ.

Why do the feds own it? It should have always been state land why are the feds hanging onto it if it does nothing for them and is a pain in the ass to manage?

I just don't get the logic in land being so worthless that nobody wants it yet the feds think it's valuable enough to send 200 armed agents to take it away from someone who actually found a use for it. It's not like he's building cities here. His cattle eat the grass that grows out there for free. It costs nobody in the US a dime for this to happen.

Why the fuck am I paying taxes for an army to go out there and round up this guys fucking cows?

Clark county bought the grazing rights so they could kick this guy out for the damn turtle. The grazing land was taken from them because the stupid fucking turtle was the governments excuse to do so. The turtle was the hammer the government used so yes turtles have everything to do with this.

No. He lost the grazing rights because he refused to pay for them - and then the county bought them.

no he paid clark county for the grazing rights

No, he didn't. He has claimed he's willing to, but Clark County won't take the money.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Clark county bought the grazing rights so they could kick this guy out for the damn turtle. The grazing land was taken from them because the stupid fucking turtle was the governments excuse to do so. The turtle was the hammer the government used so yes turtles have everything to do with this.

No. He lost the grazing rights because he refused to pay for them - and then the county bought them.

You just told me that Clark county bought the rights out from under him. He didn't refuse to pay they took it away for a turtle refuge. Didn't we already establish that?

I'll try to explain this as simply as possible.

First he owned the rights.

Then he refused to pay for them.

Then the courts vacated his lease.

Then the county purchased them, and retired them.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yes. Clark County bought the grazing rights out from under Bundy - and then permanently retired them. As in, they paid to end grazing on that land, for ever.

The county doesn't want Bundy grazing their, either.

The Federal Government is involved because there were almost a thousand pairs of cattle illegally grazing on land they own.

Under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, Clark County can at any time choose to renew those rights. They are still the permittee, and have all the cards in their hand.

It's possible, but why would they?

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that Clark County is supporting Bundy in this - that's not the case.

The county has already retired those rights to protect the tortoise.

But what you seem to be missing here is that Clark County has issued no formal opinion, either for or against Mr. Bundy.

 

[depotoo]

http://www.publiclandsranching.org/htmlres/PDF/press_UT_land_for_peace.pdf

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No, but you sure as hell could put a cow on it to eat the free grass it has. Building a house makes the land unusable to anyone but you. A cow mowing the lawn? Not so much.

Do you really think that It would be legal for me to keep livestock on someone else's property without permission, even if they themselves didn't want to do anything with the land?

You said abandoned land. So does the property down the street from you automatically become federal land? Obviously nobody wants it so it defaults to the feds?

No. One doesn't lose ownership of the land simply because they don't want to do anything with it.

Just like the federal government doesn't lose ownership of the land simply because they're not doing anything with it.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, Clark County can at any time choose to renew those rights. They are still the permittee, and have all the cards in their hand.

It's possible, but why would they?

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that Clark County is supporting Bundy in this - that's not the case.

The county has already retired those rights to protect the tortoise.

But what you seem to be missing here is that Clark County has issued no formal opinion, either for or against Mr. Bundy.

Their actions - buying the grazing rights and then retiring them to protect the tortoise - makes their position fairly clear.

 

[depotoo]

Q. When did tensions boil over?A. Things came to a head when environmentalists threatened to sue the agency to protect the endangered desert tortoise that lives on the land where Bundy’s cattle grazed.

from the Las Vegas Sun. Environmentalists have been threatening to sue over public grazings in many areas and states. Just bing environmentalists threaten to sue blm.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

No. He lost the grazing rights because he refused to pay for them - and then the county bought them.

You just told me that Clark county bought the rights out from under him. He didn't refuse to pay they took it away for a turtle refuge. Didn't we already establish that?

I'll try to explain this as simply as possible.

First he owned the rights.

Then he refused to pay for them.

Then the courts vacated his lease.

Then the county purchased them, and retired them.

No that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

The feds and state decided they wanted a turtle sanctuary. Nobody really knows why.

Worked out a deal to make that happen by transferring ownership and retiring the grazing rights simultaniously thus voiding the lease this family had in place and had paid for for years.

 

[depotoo]

They are out to destroy cattle ranching and peoples businesses under false pretenses. They are so far out of control and could care less of those they destroy in the process.

 

[depotoo]

You just told me that Clark county bought the rights out from under him. He didn't refuse to pay they took it away for a turtle refuge. Didn't we already establish that?

I'll try to explain this as simply as possible.

First he owned the rights.

Then he refused to pay for them.

Then the courts vacated his lease.

Then the county purchased them, and retired them.

No that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

The feds and state decided they wanted a turtle sanctuary. Nobody really knows why.

Worked out a deal to make that happen by transferring ownership and retiring the grazing rights simultaniously thus voiding the lease this family had in place and had paid for for years.

And they are shutting down the sanctuary and are going to now euthanize those turtles, which they used to destroy ranching family businesses. They are a sick breed.

 

[jon_berzerk]

state land managed by BLM for a fee

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You just told me that Clark county bought the rights out from under him. He didn't refuse to pay they took it away for a turtle refuge. Didn't we already establish that?

I'll try to explain this as simply as possible.

First he owned the rights.

Then he refused to pay for them.

Then the courts vacated his lease.

Then the county purchased them, and retired them.

No that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

The feds and state decided they wanted a turtle sanctuary. Nobody really knows why.

Worked out a deal to make that happen by transferring ownership and retiring the grazing rights simultaniously thus voiding the lease this family had in place and had paid for for years.

It's EXACTLY what happened here. In fact, it's very well documented. Not even the rancher himself is challenging the timeline I put forward.

1946 - 1993: The Bundy family own and pay for grazing rights.
1993: BLM changes grazing rules, and in "protest", Bundy decides to stop paying, and ignore the new rules.
1998: The courts decide against Bundy, vacating his grazing rights and putting them on the market, and issue a court order for him to remove his cattle. He ignores it.
1998: Clark County, NV buys the rights, and retires them.
2013: The courts once again order him to remove his cattle. He again ignores it.
2014: His cattle finally get evicted.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Q. When did tensions boil over?A. Things came to a head when environmentalists threatened to sue the agency to protect the endangered desert tortoise that lives on the land where Bundy’s cattle grazed.

from the Las Vegas Sun. Environmentalists have been threatening to sue over public grazings in many areas and states. Just bing environmentalists threaten to sue blm.

By the time "things came to a head", Bundy has already been flagrantly violating the law for 20 years.

 

[jon_berzerk]

it is state land

No, it's not. It's simply fucking not. It's federal land, and always has been. The state of Nevada has NEVER owned it.

Jesus Christ.

Why do the feds own it? It should have always been state land why are the feds hanging onto it if it does nothing for them and is a pain in the ass to manage?

I just don't get the logic in land being so worthless that nobody wants it yet the feds think it's valuable enough to send 200 armed agents to take it away from someone who actually found a use for it. It's not like he's building cities here. His cattle eat the grass that grows out there for free. It costs nobody in the US a dime for this to happen.

Why the fuck am I paying taxes for an army to go out there and round up this guys fucking cows?

You just told me that Clark county bought the rights out from under him. He didn't refuse to pay they took it away for a turtle refuge. Didn't we already establish that?

I'll try to explain this as simply as possible.

First he owned the rights.

Then he refused to pay for them.

Then the courts vacated his lease.

Then the county purchased them, and retired them.

No that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

The feds and state decided they wanted a turtle sanctuary. Nobody really knows why.

Worked out a deal to make that happen by transferring ownership and retiring the grazing rights simultaniously thus voiding the lease this family had in place and had paid for for years.

The feds and state decided they wanted a turtle sanctuary

turtles that they are so concerned about

that they euthanized about a thousand of them

 

[jon_berzerk]

I'll try to explain this as simply as possible.

First he owned the rights.

Then he refused to pay for them.

Then the courts vacated his lease.

Then the county purchased them, and retired them.

No that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

The feds and state decided they wanted a turtle sanctuary. Nobody really knows why.

Worked out a deal to make that happen by transferring ownership and retiring the grazing rights simultaniously thus voiding the lease this family had in place and had paid for for years.

It's EXACTLY what happened here. In fact, it's very well documented. Not even the rancher himself is challenging the timeline I put forward.

1946 - 1993: The Bundy family own and pay for grazing rights.
1993: BLM changes grazing rules, and in "protest", Bundy decides to stop paying, and ignore the new rules.
1998: The courts decide against Bundy, vacating his grazing rights and putting them on the market, and issue a court order for him to remove his cattle. He ignores it.
1998: Clark County, NV buys the rights, and retires them.
2013: The courts once again order him to remove his cattle. He again ignores it.
2014: His cattle finally get evicted.

it is an over reach by the federal government

 

[TemplarKormac]

It's possible, but why would they?

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that Clark County is supporting Bundy in this - that's not the case.

The county has already retired those rights to protect the tortoise.

But what you seem to be missing here is that Clark County has issued no formal opinion, either for or against Mr. Bundy.

Their actions - buying the grazing rights and then retiring them to protect the tortoise - makes their position fairly clear.

Oh, so now they aren't allowed to change their opinion?