Sen Joe McCarthy: American Patriot and Hero

[Gadawg73]

As usual, chic, you side step and run fromthe issues likea monkey on fire.
Many thousands were accused but you go by your Wikipedia lists because of laziness and a complete lack of investigative skills. I have had my detective agency license since 1982.
Who was prosecuted out of all the accused? Maybe 120?
How come? Because there was NO evidence to prosecute
You know that the entire thing was a circus resulting in nothing at all with most prosecutions.
I do not go by your so called litmus test.
I go by the US Constitution and the law.
If you do not know that thousands were looked into and notes taken by his committe and staff during the Red Scare days then you are uninformed.
I go by the rules of law and criminal procedure, something you know nothing about and have no respect for. I have worked investigating criminal cases for trial for 30 years.
You would do well to do read about Edward R. Murrow, a friend of my just deceased father and of our family since the 1930s. Murrow was from North Carolina and grew up near where Dad went to college at Guilford College 1938-1942.
Was Murrow a liberal? Read about him and his investigation of McCArthy AT THE TIME.
The likes of you advocated the practice of "it is okay to go soft on the Constituion in an effort to fight communism"
You are too young,naiveand gulluible to know any better chic but I will again attempt to educate you up from your ignorance. Ever heard of the cases prosecuted under the Smith Act? 10 defendants were convicted in 1949 under the act. And ALL of the defense attorneys were also sent to jail for defending communists! That is how crazy things were back then but you would not know that as you are an ideologue and have not experienced the real world. And in 1950 Beth Gurley, the head of the ACLU fighting these police state laws, was indicted and 20 or so others were convicted. All of the cases were overturned because of fabricated testimony that was coerced. The prosecution witnesses all admitted they lied in court so they all were set free. All of the Acts that these Congresses passed during the Red Scare were all later deemed unConstitutional in the 1960s with 9-0 decisions.
But you would not know any of those facts because youare blind to reality and did not grow up in it.
You live as an ideologue. Read Murrow for the facts of the day and he was NO liberal.
But you won't do it because your ideology will not allow an unbiased, objective research AND INVESTIGATION of
ANYTHING.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Here is an interesting review of Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator By Arthur Herman (New York: Free Press, 2000. Pp. vi, 404. $26 cloth.)

McCarthy and His Enemies, Revisited by Larry I. Bland

A POLITICAL TRACT DISGUISED AS A SCHOLARLY history, this book is intended to be a contribution to the right-wing side of the current “culture war” in the United States. Nevertheless, it could have been written in 1956 as a companion piece to William Buckley and Brent Bozell’s McCarthy and His Enemies. Contrary to appearances, the author is not McCarthy’s defense lawyer but a cultural historian who received his Ph.D. in history from Johns Hopkins University (1985), is adjunct professor at George Mason University, and coordinator of the Western Civilization Program at the Smithsonian Institution. In 1997 he published The Idea of Decline in Western History.

According to Herman, McCarthy was justified and correct in all important political ideas and actions. The senator’s liberal enemies in academia, government, and the media were elitist gullible fools (at best). Sometimes they were irresponsibly blind (“in complicity with evil”) to the enormous danger communist subversion and propaganda posed to American society, but just as often they were actual traitors or Marxist-inclined dupes. Revisionist and antiwar writers of the 1960s and after are the ideological descendants of this evil crew.

The author uses several techniques to defend the senator.

The first is to admit that his hero had certain human flaws, which he then explains away. Was McCarthy an alcoholic? Yes, but not “an abusive or violent drunk.”

Second, tu quoque arguments. Did McCarthy do deed X of dubious fairness or morality? Yes, but the liberals did it first and worse.

Third, everybody-does-it (i.e., lies, distorts, leaks documents, etc.).

Fourth, it was worse elsewhere or at another time (i.e., not that many people were sent to jail or had their careers damaged between 1947 and 1954, and besides the Red Scare of 1919-20 was worse, and McCarthy’s actions were trivial compared to Stalin’s purges and gulags).

Fifth, be certain to select only the most outré, context-less quotes by McCarthy’s critics.

Sixth, be entirely innocent of the content of the past half century of diplomatic history writings when you assert such silly chestnuts such as: Harry Hopkins believed every lie that the Marxists told him, that Alger Hiss played an important role in the “disastrous decisions at Yalta,” or that China was lost when George C. Marshall — encouraged by Commie-symp types like John Stewart Service — embargoed military supplies to Chiang Kai-shek in 1946, thereby causing Mao’s victory and high U.S. casualties in the Korean War.

Finally, assert that every charge you (or Whittaker Chambers, Elizabeth Bentley, et al.) have made against liberals has been proven true by the Venona transcripts or recent documentary revelations.

Most of the author’s sources are secondary, but he also uses contemporary publications, published congressional hearings, a few interviews, and some manuscript collections. The book is nicely published, illustrated, and indexed. Nobody left of Jesse Helms or Strom Thurmond will be convinced by the author’s exegesis, but the book is a must for all conservatives and conspiracy buffs. One presumes that right-wing foundations and corporations will wish to buy it in bulk for distribution to true believers.

Bland | McCarthy and His Enemies

Interesting that your post refers to the Red Scare, "...and besides the Red Scare of 1919-20 was worse,..."

I'm going to guess that you requre a remedial of same...

1. Liberals tend to complain about the McCarthy period as if it were the darkest moment in American history, after slavery. But nothing happened …that remotely compares with what Wilson and his fellow progressives foisted on America. Under the Espionage Act of June 1917 and the Sedition Act of May 1918, any criticism of the government, even in your own home could earn you a prison sentence (a law Oliver Wendell Holmes upheld years after the war, arguing that such speech could be banned if it posed a ‘clear and present danger’). Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919)

2. At its core, fascism is the view that every element of society must work together in spiritual union toward the same goals at the behest of the state. One can see it defined in Mussolini's own summary of the Fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State) MODERN LEFTISM AS RECYCLED FASCISM

3. The first true enterprise of this kind was established in the in the United States under the 20th century’s first fascist dictator: Woodrow Wilson. During WW I, under the Progressive Woodrow Wilson, American was a fascist nation.
a. Had the world’s first modern propaganda ministry
b. Political prisoners by the thousands were harassed, beaten, spied upon and thrown in jail for simply expressing private opinions.
c. The national leader accused foreigners and immigrants of injecting treasonous ‘poison’ into the American bloodstream
d. Newspapers and magazines were closed for criticizing the government
e. Almost 100,000 government propaganda agents were sent out to whip up support for the regime and the war
f. College professors imposed loyalty oaths on their colleagues
g. Nearly a quarter million ‘goons’ were given legal authority to beat and intimidate ‘slackers’ and dissenters
h. Leading artists and writers dedicated their work to proselytizing for the government.
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Classical_Liberalism_vs_Modern_Liberal_Conservatism.pdf p. 9

4. The Wilson Propaganda Ministry

a. George Creel was named to head the Committee on Public Information, the CPI. How liberal was he: “served as police commissioner in Denver, depriving policemen of guns and nightsticks”(JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie) Fear was a vital tool, “an important element to be bred into the civilian population.” (Goldberg, “Liberal Fascism,” p.109) He recruited about 75,000 "Four Minute Men," who spoke about the War at social events for an ideal length of four minutes, considering that the average human attention span was judged at the time to be four minutes.( George Creel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

b. The official position of the US government's Committee on Public Information was: "The force of an idea lies in its inspirational value. It matters very little if it is true or false." Journal of Translational Medicine | Full text | Comments on the nonpharmaceutical interventions in New York City and Chicago during the 1918 influenza pandemic

c. Wilson’s Sedition Act, May 1918 banned “uttering, printing, writing, or publishing any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the United States government of the military.

d. The postmaster general had authority to deny mailing privileges to any publication: at least 75 were banned. The supply of newsprint was halted by the War Industries Board of any journal that disparaged the draft.

e. The censorship of “The Masses” was prosecuted under the Espionage Act of June 1917, because it carried a cartoon proclaiming that it was a war to “make the world safe for capitalism,” and editorials praising draft resistors. Six editors’ trial resulted in hung juries.

f. He proclaimed that the greatest threat came from ‘hyphenated’ Americans: “I cannot say too often- any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.” http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=980DE6D6133FE233A2575BC0A9649D946496D6CF

g. “The Nation, on April 17, 1920, recounted how a clothing salesman received six months in jail for saying that Vladimir Lenin was smart.” "The Most Brainiest Man?" The Red Scare and Free Speech in Connecticut Because the Oklahoma Council of Defense was an extralegal organization, numerous incidents of extreme measures occurred to eliminate dissent. Men were beaten with leather straps and tarred and feathered. OKLAHOMA COUNCIL OF DEFENSE

5. The Justice Department had its own quasi-official fascisti, the American Protective League, the APL. They has ‘Secret Service’ badges, and were charged with keeping an eye on neighbors, co-workers and friends, including reading neighbor’s mail and listening in on their phones with government approval. Membership exceeded a quarter million. Zinn, Howard, “The Twentieth Century: A People’s History,” p.89-92
a. In Rockford, Illinois, the army asked the APL to extract confessions from 21 black soldiers charged with assaulting white women. Barry, “The Great Influenza,” p. 124.
b. The APL Vigilante Patrol cracked down on “seditious street oratory,” and as ‘head crackers’ against ‘slackers’ who avoided conscription.


5. The Justice Department had its own quasi-official fascisti, the American Protective League, the APL. They has ‘Secret Service’ badges, and were charged with keeping an eye on neighbors, co-workers and friends, including reading neighbor’s mail and listening in on their phones with government approval. Membership exceeded a quarter million. Zinn, Howard, “The Twentieth Century: A People’s History,” p.89-92

a. In Rockford, Illinois, the army asked the APL to extract confessions from 21 black soldiers charged with assaulting white women. Barry, “The Great Influenza,” p. 124.
b. The APL Vigilante Patrol cracked down on “seditious street oratory,” and as ‘head crackers’ against ‘slackers’ who avoided conscription.

6. The Red Scare intensified in June 1919, when Attorney General Palmer, who claimed to have a list of 60,000 subversives, engaged in a series of warrantless raids aimed at capturing the mostly immigrant red radicals, some of whom were jailed or shipped back to Russia. With no reproach from Wilson, Palmer trampled on civil liberties and harassed the innocent as well as the likely guilty.
1919: Betrayal and the Birth of Modern Liberalism by Fred Siegel, City Journal 22 November 2009

 

[JakeStarkey]

Finally, we are seeing the right post some stuff we can work with.

Her own posted material fails her litmus test is what I find quite interesting.

But this is, finally, a start for the far right here. Congratulations sincerely.

 

[Cecilie1200]

At some point don't people begin to ask themselves, Political Chic has thrown down this gauntlet at least a dozen times:

Again, the easily-led brigade fails to ascertain truth, and bathes in a warm bath of liberal mythology…

The litmus test is fairly simple…and you being equally so, it should appeal to you:
If Senator Joseph McCarthy had such a deleterious effect, and ‘ruined’ so many lives, it should be effortless for you to name a half dozen or so whose lives were so ‘ruined.’

1. If you cannot do so, it clearly casts the lie to your premise.
2. Ruin does not refer to being insulted. You must show actual damages, i.e. imprisoned and later found innocent of the charges or never working again…

You can run, but you can't hide.

AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS VENTURED TO SITE A SINGLE NAME!

Except for some uncle that no one knows or has ever heard of, and for whom there's no way of double-checking. Convenient.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Finally, we are seeing the right post some stuff we can work with.

Her own posted material fails her litmus test is what I find quite interesting.

But this is, finally, a start for the far right here. Congratulations sincerely.

What, you found "So name some people he ruined" too fucking complicated to work with? You want to sit there and crow about PC "failing her litmus test", how about first you grow a pair and step up to the fucking plate, Junior?

My God, what an ignorant poltroon.

 

[Gadawg73]

What Coulter failed to reveal in her "tell all" book is that there were already undercover investigations into most of the named communists in the state department long before McCarthy said there were there. In fact, the McCarthy blabber mouth hearings derailed most of those undercover investigations that took years to develop.
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a blue moon.
What you folks fail to realize is that you seek to turn spies for INFORMATION. Ideology has no power and the knowledge of someone's ideology has no useful purpose in espionage. INFORMATION is power and no one cares what ideology you are as long as the information is credible and valuable.
The fact that McCarthy pointed out a handfull of already known communist spies out of the thousands he incorrectly labeled is proof that his methods are wrong.
In America you SHOULD NEVER have toprove yourself innocent. McCarthy labeled thousands as communists without any proof and each and every one of themhad to go prove their innocense.
That is UnAmerican. The accused never has to prove anything under our system of justice. It is always the burden of the accuser to prove their case BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Out of the thousands McCarthy accused how many were convicted of anything. Case closed.
In America, YOU ARE ALWAYS PRESUMED INNOCENT.
And McCarthy violated that sacred foundation of American society. It was not tolerated then, he was exposed as a fraud for doing so and that foundation continues today. If you do not like that then find another country to live in.

You're flailing wildly beating yourself and whatever points you thought you had nearly to death.

So now you admit that McCarthy did name genuine Communist spies, that shows some improvement, but then you add that he name "Thousands" and the only person who agrees with you might be Jake Starkey.

Then, you seem to think that McCarthy was judge and jury and he had some "Burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt" which is just lunacy. He was a US Senator. Got it? A US Senator.

McCarthy never "violated that sacred foundation of American society", instead he violated that sacred foundation of Marxist infiltration of American society: he named Communist spies and he was correct.

Leaked information from government covert investigations to McCarthy.
Usually, when you leak that information they shoot you Frank.
Marxist infiltration of American society? LOL

 

[PoliticalChic]

As usual, chic, you side step and run fromthe issues likea monkey on fire.
Many thousands were accused but you go by your Wikipedia lists because of laziness and a complete lack of investigative skills. I have had my detective agency license since 1982.
Who was prosecuted out of all the accused? Maybe 120?
How come? Because there was NO evidence to prosecute
You know that the entire thing was a circus resulting in nothing at all with most prosecutions.
I do not go by your so called litmus test.
I go by the US Constitution and the law.
If you do not know that thousands were looked into and notes taken by his committe and staff during the Red Scare days then you are uninformed.
I go by the rules of law and criminal procedure, something you know nothing about and have no respect for. I have worked investigating criminal cases for trial for 30 years.
You would do well to do read about Edward R. Murrow, a friend of my just deceased father and of our family since the 1930s. Murrow was from North Carolina and grew up near where Dad went to college at Guilford College 1938-1942.
Was Murrow a liberal? Read about him and his investigation of McCArthy AT THE TIME.
The likes of you advocated the practice of "it is okay to go soft on the Constituion in an effort to fight communism"
You are too young,naiveand gulluible to know any better chic but I will again attempt to educate you up from your ignorance. Ever heard of the cases prosecuted under the Smith Act? 10 defendants were convicted in 1949 under the act. And ALL of the defense attorneys were also sent to jail for defending communists! That is how crazy things were back then but you would not know that as you are an ideologue and have not experienced the real world. And in 1950 Beth Gurley, the head of the ACLU fighting these police state laws, was indicted and 20 or so others were convicted. All of the cases were overturned because of fabricated testimony that was coerced. The prosecution witnesses all admitted they lied in court so they all were set free. All of the Acts that these Congresses passed during the Red Scare were all later deemed unConstitutional in the 1960s with 9-0 decisions.
But you would not know any of those facts because youare blind to reality and did not grow up in it.
You live as an ideologue. Read Murrow for the facts of the day and he was NO liberal.
But you won't do it because your ideology will not allow an unbiased, objective research AND INVESTIGATION of
ANYTHING.

My, oh, my...you ARE giving dullards and dim-wits a bad name!

"Many thousands were accused but you go by your Wikipedia lists because of laziness and a complete lack of investigative skills. I have had my detective agency license since 1982.
Who was prosecuted out of all the accused? Maybe 120?
How come? Because there was NO evidence to prosecute
You know that the entire thing was a circus resulting in nothing at all with prosecutions.
I do not go by your so called litmus test. "

So, I glean from this post:
1. You cannot name any innocent folks who were injured by the great American hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy.

2.Your new fall-back position is that there were 'thousands' named, but you can't racall any, and none had any damages.

3. You use the term 'prosecuted,' clearly with no understanding of the term, as 'blacklisted' seems not to have worked out for you. If onl the Senator had been a prosecutor, not merely an investigator!

a. Even after the scandal of the Rosenberg cell emerging from the Army, the Army was still employing security risks. Beginning in early 1953, of a whole year, Army intelligence issued urgent warnings about Captain Irving Peress, reports stating that Peress was an active member of the Communist Party, that he was “very disloyal and untrustworthy.” Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarty: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 248
He was thought to be organizing a Communist cell on the Army base. His company commander wanted him dismissed on grounds of national security. David Oshinsky, 'A Conspiracy So Immense', p. 366-367 Instead the Army promoted him to Major! McCarty exposed the Army’s stupidity in dealing with Peress. The result? Honorable discharge. And McCarty was attacked by Vermont Republican Senator Flanders, stating the Peress was merely “a pink dentist in New Jersey.”


Whittaker Chambers wrote in his book WITNESS that liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs. In short, Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals. I wonder if you are aware of the horrors of Communism; the tortures, the Gulags, the over 100 million persons done to death.

Or even aware that the American Communists were taking their orders from Moscow and were attempting to impose the Red Utopia upon the United States. If successful, this would have led to millions tortured, enslaved, starved and murdered. It would have led to the death of human freedom for untold years. As the US was the bulwarked of freedom and Democracy, it's communization would have turned the entire world into an abatoir.

On the bright side, you have now appreared as the 'Dark Horse' candidate for "Dumbest Poster on USMB,' narrowly edging rdean in the award he has won since the inception of said award...beware: deanie holds a grudge!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Finally, we are seeing the right post some stuff we can work with.

Her own posted material fails her litmus test is what I find quite interesting.

But this is, finally, a start for the far right here. Congratulations sincerely.

Elucidate?

 

[HUGGY]

The vile misuse of the public platform did not find anything the FBI was not already aware of. What it did was ruin lives. What he did was a full frontal assauly on the Constitution. Sorry Frankie..my experience having lived through the period is rellevant. I don't give a rats ass if this thread lasts for ten thousand posts. I will not back down on this. I will never allow a McCarthy revision to go unchallenged.

Some people like Solomon Adler and Cedric Belfrage needed to have their lives ruined.

I've mentioned Solomon Adler at least 6 times, have you looked him up even once?

McCarthy wasn't trying to turn up anything new, despite popular belief (and no one but the FBI at the time knew that the FBI knew this stuff. They didn't tell anyone because they didn't want the Soviets to know they could decrypt their messages). McCarthy's purpose in doing what he did was to find out why our government was giving security clearances to people who should never have gotten them. All the drivel about "it wasn't illegal to be a Communist" aside, it was the equivalent of our current government hiring known al Qaeda sympathizers to work at the State Department.

You are a american communist therefore you are a spy or a terrorist? CC how many times have I told you to go out and buy yourself a brain? I already told you that the worst thing about the commies in this country was that they were stupid. Soviet commies dangerous..USA commies stupid... you should be able to relate to feeling sorry for stupid people. Do you really think that everyone that wanted to live in a commune in our country was working secretly for Soviet Russia? With that logic we should investigate evry Catholic because they are all obviously working for the POPE! The Pope supports Roman Catholics in Russia therefor he supports Russia and is also a spy! on...and on.. until with your circular logic...EVERYONE is a spy!!!!!!

 

[uscitizen]

This thread proves that Frank is I'd rather be dead than red Frank Burns.

 

[Synthaholic]

Watch for CrusaderFrank's upcoming thread "Benedict Arnold Was Really A Misunderstood Patriot!"

 

[Gadawg73]

The bimbos that we used to fight through outside the locker room years ago had more sense than chic and c.

 

[Gadawg73]

Watch for CrusaderFrank's upcoming thread "Benedict Arnold Was Really A Misunderstood Patriot!"

"George Wallace, States Rights Champion"

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Orville Faubus, A Governor for all Arkansans."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Watch for CrusaderFrank's upcoming thread "Benedict Arnold Was Really A Misunderstood Patriot!"

And . . . ? I'm looking for the actual content of your post, where you say something useful and meaningful, and all I see is a lame attempt to draw a parallel between Benedict Arnold and Joe McCarthy, which failed miserably.

Perhaps, rather than just expecting people to laugh knowingly and assume they know WHY there's a parallel between the two, you could be so kind as to explain EXACTLY how they're the same, thereby demonstrating clearly for us your utter ignorance of American history so that we can mock you properly.

Otherwise, I'm just going to have to settle for sneering contemptuously and dismissing you as a wannabe. Never satisfying.

 

[uscitizen]

Benedict Arnold was a conservative wasn't he? I though all those loyal to the crown were by definition conservatives and the rest were progressive liberals.

 

[Political Junky]

Benedict Arnold was a conservative wasn't he? I though all those loyal to the crown were by definition conservatives and the rest were progressive liberals.

You're right.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ceclie, all you have to know is that Joe was pulled down by his own party and politically destroyed.

 

[jillian]

Watch for CrusaderFrank's upcoming thread "Benedict Arnold Was Really A Misunderstood Patriot!"

And . . . ? I'm looking for the actual content of your post, where you say something useful and meaningful, and all I see is a lame attempt to draw a parallel between Benedict Arnold and Joe McCarthy, which failed miserably.

Perhaps, rather than just expecting people to laugh knowingly and assume they know WHY there's a parallel between the two, you could be so kind as to explain EXACTLY how they're the same, thereby demonstrating clearly for us your utter ignorance of American history so that we can mock you properly.

Otherwise, I'm just going to have to settle for sneering contemptuously and dismissing you as a wannabe. Never satisfying.

perhaps you should stop being an apologist for one of the darkest characters in our history.

either way, we will continue to mock *you* properly.

 

[LuckyDan]

I wonder of gays feel left out at these "McCarthy was E-ville" parties, since they can't call him a homophobe.

Gay commies? What say vous?