Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[Donald H]

How far back do Christians need to go to find stories of people flying around with wings on their backs?

Were those stories regarded as the literal truth as late as 200 years ago? Are they still?

Meriweather won't hesitate to provide the answer to that question.

Of course it's not a literally true story! People like our Ding usually prefer to not say.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not sure how you can make that argument in light of the 24,000 written manuscripts in existence and the actions of early Christians and the apostles.

There was far too much disagreement over theology/doctrine/dogma among the earliest Church leaders, those in the centuries up to the Fourth Century legalization of Christianity by Constantine, throughout the middle ages, Renaissance, Reformation, modern times for any kind of conspiracy to be credible.

There were conspiratorial, sometimes questionable relationships between some monarchs and Popes during the middle ages up to the Reformation, but these were isolated situations. The same kind of co-power existed between the British monarchy and the Archbishop of Canterbury for a time. The Reformation not only created Protestantism as a force in the Christian world but also included important reforms in the Roman Catholic Church as well as diminished much of the Church's dictatorial powers over the people.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Communism

i. Further destruction against the separation of church and state. 240812 {post•6}. NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocad inserts Pew Study: About three-quarters of U.S. atheists (77%) do not believe in God or a higher power or in a spiritual force of any kind, according to our summer 2023 survey.

At the same time, 23% say they do believe in a higher power of some kind, though fewer than 1% of U.S. atheists say they believe in “God as described in the Bible.”

This shows that not all self-described atheists fit the literal definition of “atheist,” which is “a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods,” according to Merriam-Webste. •¥• nfbw 240812 Vsocas00006

ii. Separation of Church and State? 240812 {post•301}. NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: Thomas Jefferson was farther away from the Catholic Church than any American atheist of today. nfbw 240812 Vsocas00301

iii. Further destruction against the separation of church and state. 240812{post•311}. ding Aug’24”fdats: Incorrect. Thomas Jefferson and Catholics: Believe in the existence of a creator. Atheists believe none of that. dvng 240812 Sfdats00311

iv. Separation of Church and State? 240813 {post•363}.

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: I wrote in paragraph i. above that Thomas Jefferson was farther away from the Catholic Church than any American atheist of today” and then you replied Saint_Ding in paragraph iii. that my argument was incorrect. You Saint_Ding are arguing that Thomas Jefferson and Catholics believe in the existence of a creator and that atheists believe none of that.

You did not respond to my point. What I wrote is correct sufficient for the point I made.

Yes, Jefferson believed in a creator
but most certainly and absolutely not in the slightest to Catholic Church sense. Jefferson believed the Creator has never revealed himself to the human condition and especially did not author the hocus-pocus in what he referred to as the Holy Bible as a “dunghill” from which he could extract a few diamonds

A near total of all atheists in the United States of America agree with Jefferson according to the Pew Report that I provided in paragraph i. above. They believe in a higher power of some sort but they do not believe in “God as described in the Bible.” They do not believe in the Dunghill as Jefferson described the Holy Human Instruction Manual that was published by the corrupt Catholic Church.

nfbw 240813 Vsocas00363

 

[alang1216]

Yes, lots of copies. I never said otherwise. Although I'm not certain the other 19,000 manuscripts are all copies.

They are not in Greek so they're not the original scripture. If not copies what else would they be.

I can only assume your perception that there's a disagreement is proof of a conspiracy, right?

You know what happens when you assume.

But why stop there, why not talk about the perceived disagreements in the gospels too?

I've already listed several, what is you explanation?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

As long as government isn’t naming a national official religion, then the cotus is being upheld.

Obviously false. They may make no law respecting religion, as the document says.

 

[alang1216]

The question you should be asking is how does their accuracy compare to other events in antiquity that you don't believe were conspiracies to control the minds of men by anonymous individuals.

Both Hercules and Jesus were born of a god and a human. Both are well documented. Which is accurate and why?

 

[alang1216]

That's the question I'm asking you. Who was responsible for the fraud of epic proportions that you believe exists.

So we've left conspiracy and now we're onto fraud. Please stop telling me what I believe. If you don't like my answers, feel free not to comment.

But how many of these accounts say Jesus didn't perform miracles?

How many contemporary accounts even mention this great worker of miracles?

 

[BreezeWood]

There was far too much disagreement in the centuries up to the Fourth Century ... for any kind of conspiracy to be credible.

not disagreement - till the truth would not be told.

the 1st century events are the repudiation of judaism's false commandments, hereditary idolatry illustrated by its climatic conclusion, the crucifixion of jesus and those others that gave their lives for the original religion of antiquity - liberation theology, self determination as taught by jesus.

there are no documents used to write the 4th century christian bible preserved for the purpose of verification for the document that was written over a 100 year period of time - and by those that delayed 4 centuries to write their version than those before them and allowed by the prevailing gov't to become - the state church of the roman empire, the crucifiers of those events not recorded in their document.

 

[Meriweather]

It was a question. You seem to be a perpetually angry person. Is that only when your religion is questioned?

You are confusing anger with indifference. I've explained both my position and the position of the Catholic faith. You continue to have at it, and that's why I am indifferent. You know where I stand. There is no further need to continue on. Indifference.

 

[Foxfyre]

not disagreement - till the truth would not be told.

the 1st century events are the repudiation of judaism's false commandments, hereditary idolatry illustrated by its climatic conclusion, the crucifixion of jesus and those others that gave their lives for the original religion of antiquity - liberation theology, self determination as taught by jesus.

there are no documents used to write the 4th century christian bible preserved for the purpose of verification for the document that was written over a 100 year period of time - and by those that delayed 4 centuries to write their version than those before them and allowed by the prevailing gov't to become - the state church of the roman empire, the crucifiers of those events not recorded in their document.

Your understanding of the history and my understanding, backed up by people who have spent a lifetime researching that history, are very different. But then I am one open to all possibilities and not in the business of trying to destroy the faith of others.

 

[ding]

There was far too much disagreement over theology/doctrine/dogma among the earliest Church leaders, those in the centuries up to the Fourth Century legalization of Christianity by Constantine, throughout the middle ages, Renaissance, Reformation, modern times for any kind of conspiracy to be credible.

There were conspiratorial, sometimes questionable relationships between some monarchs and Popes during the middle ages up to the Reformation, but these were isolated situations. The same kind of co-power existed between the British monarchy and the Archbishop of Canterbury for a time. The Reformation not only created Protestantism as a force in the Christian world but also included important reforms in the Roman Catholic Church as well as diminished much of the Church's dictatorial powers over the people.

Was there disagreement on the miracles performed by Christ? Did some say, hey that never happened?

 

[ding]

i. Further destruction against the separation of church and state. 240812 {post•6}. NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocad inserts Pew Study: About three-quarters of U.S. atheists (77%) do not believe in God or a higher power or in a spiritual force of any kind, according to our summer 2023 survey.

At the same time, 23% say they do believe in a higher power of some kind, though fewer than 1% of U.S. atheists say they believe in “God as described in the Bible.”

This shows that not all self-described atheists fit the literal definition of “atheist,” which is “a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods,” according to Merriam-Webste. •¥• nfbw 240812 Vsocas00006

ii. Separation of Church and State? 240812 {post•301}. NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: Thomas Jefferson was farther away from the Catholic Church than any American atheist of today. nfbw 240812 Vsocas00301

iii. Further destruction against the separation of church and state. 240812{post•311}. ding Aug’24”fdats: Incorrect. Thomas Jefferson and Catholics: Believe in the existence of a creator. Atheists believe none of that. dvng 240812 Sfdats00311

iv. Separation of Church and State? 240813 {post•363}.

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: I wrote in paragraph i. above that Thomas Jefferson was farther away from the Catholic Church than any American atheist of today” and then you replied Saint_Ding in paragraph iii. that my argument was incorrect. You Saint_Ding are arguing that Thomas Jefferson and Catholics believe in the existence of a creator and that atheists believe none of that.

You did not respond to my point. What I wrote is correct sufficient for the point I made.

Yes, Jefferson believed in a creator
but most certainly and absolutely not in the slightest to Catholic Church sense. Jefferson believed the Creator has never revealed himself to the human condition and especially did not author the hocus-pocus in what he referred to as the Holy Bible as a “dunghill” from which he could extract a few diamonds

A near total of all atheists in the United States of America agree with Jefferson according to the Pew Report that I provided in paragraph i. above. They believe in a higher power of some sort but they do not believe in “God as described in the Bible.” They do not believe in the Dunghill as Jefferson described the Holy Human Instruction Manual that was published by the corrupt Catholic Church.

nfbw 240813 Vsocas00363

"The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs." Vladimir Lenin

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs." Vladimir Lenin

Right. He didn't want any competition. He created his own religion.

Like the Kims.

It's fascinating how easy that is to do. One generation later, and kids are brainwashed with Kimism instead of the religion of their grandparents.

It's a fine demonstration of the interchangeability of religions, itself demonstrating that all of it relies on human hardwiring to believe magical ideas. In short... no one religion is very special. Take one away, and it is easily replaced by another.

 

[Foxfyre]

Was there disagreement on the miracles performed by Christ? Did some say, hey that never happened?

Even Jesus acknowledged that some would see and not believe.

 

[ding]

They are not in Greek so they're not the original scripture. If not copies what else would they be.


You know what happens when you assume.


I've already listed several, what is you explanation?

Apparently they must all be fruits of a massive conspiracy, right? Because you know for certain Jesus never performed any miracles, right?

My explanation is that the miracles performed by Christ either happened or it's the granddaddy of all conspiracies. And since I see no evidence of a conspiracy, it must have happened no matter how implausible it seems.

 

[ding]

Obviously false. They may make no law respecting religion, as the document says.

Which at the time of ratification only applied to the federal government, not state governments.

 

[ding]

Both Hercules and Jesus were born of a god and a human. Both are well documented. Which is accurate and why?

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm only pointing out that if you are correct that the account of Christ must be the granddaddy of all conspiracies. A point you are unwilling to accept.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Which at the time of ratification only applied to the federal government, not state governments.

True, it specifically says "congress".

But as the SCOTUS has shown over the years, they also interpret the constitution in spirit.

 

[Leo123]

Separation of church and State is NOT in the Constitution. The Constitution prohibits the ESTABLISHMENT of a STATE RELIGION. Therefore any State building displaying the Ten Commandments (for instance) should not be prohibited from doing so. DC has many churches as well but none are part of the government.

 

[ding]

So we've left conspiracy and now we're onto fraud. Please stop telling me what I believe. If you don't like my answers, feel free not to comment.


How many contemporary accounts even mention this great worker of miracles?

Conspiracy usually does involve fraud if a lie is told, right?

How many of your perceived discrepancies were about the miracles performed by Christ?