Settlers Start Over 50 Fires In West Bank

[Coyote]

Nah, we know better.

The settlers throwing stones and burning fields. right?

So looking at the facts, I wonder why are the Palestinians truly angry?

Is it the 'game' that they don't like? or the facts that the settlers play on their level?

Or, maybe they're just angry at seeing their land and livelyhood being cut up and stolen acre by acre. I can't blame them.

You seem to be justifying settler violence against innocent civilians. Are you really?

The settler extremists are no better than the palestinian extremists. The only difference is one gets legitimized by the Israeli government and rewarded for their illegal activities.

It's not Israels fault the Palestinians and Arab leaders have reject EVERY offer made to them for peace by Israel. Offers that would have given them virtually ALL of the West Bank and giving them East Jerusalem !
Sooner or later, the Palestinians need to realize it is their leaders who are keeping them from having their own legitimate state, not Israel

That doesn't change the fact that the settler extremists are no better than the Palestinian extremists.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Shall we have a new Palestinian settlement then, for every Palestinian who is killed?

They have many illegal settlements in the Negev.

Are they legal residents of Negev? Or, illegal migrants stealing land in Occupied Territory?

There are nomadic Beduoin Arabs in the Negev desert who move around alot, which is illegal.

 

[Coyote]

They have many illegal settlements in the Negev.

Are they legal residents of Negev? Or, illegal migrants stealing land in Occupied Territory?

There are nomadic Beduoin Arabs in the Negev desert who move around alot, which is illegal.

So they are legal residents engaging in an illegal activity?

 

[Lipush]

You expect the Palestinians to sit quietly.

Nah, we know better.

The settlers throwing stones and burning fields. right?

So looking at the facts, I wonder why are the Palestinians truly angry?

Is it the 'game' that they don't like? or the facts that the settlers play on their level?

Or, maybe they're just angry at seeing their land and livelyhood being cut up and stolen acre by acre. I can't blame them.

You seem to be justifying settler violence against innocent civilians. Are you really?

The settler extremists are no better than the palestinian extremists. The only difference is one gets legitimized by the Israeli government and rewarded for their illegal activities.

Or, maybe they're just angry at seeing their land and livelyhood being cut up and stolen acre by acre. I can't blame them.

I can!

My grandmother's family had a ranch in central Israel in the first years of the 20st century. They lived in Israel ever since the 1800's. First Aliya.

When the 1929 riots began, their ranch was burned, robbed, and they were forced to leave to stay alive. And not only them.

That was before the "Nakba". No one, no one, of our family, had the chance to retrieve what has been lost. do you think they were not angry? of course they were.

How many of them went stabbing, burning, blowing up Palestinians because of it? NONE. my family hurt no one and killed no one, EVER.

And boy, were they pissed.

So stop bringing up excuses for them. We're tired of it.!

You seem to be justifying settler violence against innocent civilians. Are you really?

I already said I didn't. And I don't.

But I believe the outrage involves hypocrisy to its core. Jews are stoned by Palestinians and attacked by Palestinians all the time. the stone throwing wasn't a Jewish thing,was not 10 or 15 years ago. Truth is, that is something they have learned. and not from Israelis.

As the saying goes, when throwing stones, don't built your house with glass walls!

The settler extremists are no better than the palestinian extremists.

I could agree with you on that one.

The only difference is one gets legitimized by the Israeli government and rewarded for their illegal activities.

What you see from here, you aint seeing from there!

At least 3 settlers have been arrested in the last 2 days for the violent riots. No one "give them prizes" for their behaviour.

I will recomend you, out of respect, because I believe many things you say are true, to check certain facts before saying them.

 

[Lipush]

Shall we have a new Palestinian settlement then, for every Palestinian who is killed?

They have many illegal settlements in the Negev.

Are they legal residents of Negev? Or, illegal migrants stealing land in Occupied Territory?

When building a new village, just like when it comes to a Jewish settlement, it should be written and scatched in the Tabu. because if its not, then the state won't provide water and electricity services, because it's illegal.

Many 'towns' in the Negev are just like that. I lived in the Negev my entire life, I'm surrounded by those.

When they are out of services, they go to Jewish towns to steal. many times the steal from the Kibbutzim or well-based Jewish towns.

This problem should be dealt with, and soon.

 

[Lipush]

Are they legal residents of Negev? Or, illegal migrants stealing land in Occupied Territory?

There are nomadic Beduoin Arabs in the Negev desert who move around alot, which is illegal.

So they are legal residents engaging in an illegal activity?

They take over lands without authorization. So yeah, that's the case.

Many of the anger of our people is because of it. Some believe that before dealing with the "illegal settlements", that according to Israeli law are not illegal at all, they should deal with the Arab settlements in the Negev, first.

 

[Coyote]

There are nomadic Beduoin Arabs in the Negev desert who move around alot, which is illegal.

So they are legal residents engaging in an illegal activity?

They take over lands without authorization. So yeah, that's the case.

But they are legally allowed to be there - it is within Israel's borders and they are legal residents of Israel. In essence - it's like the homeless people putting up tents and shcaks in a park for temporary residencey. That is not the case with settlers.

Many of the anger of our people is because of it. Some believe that before dealing with the "illegal settlements", that according to Israeli law are not illegal at all, they should deal with the Arab settlements in the Negev, first.

There are two points here:
The settlers are stealing land that is not Israel's to begin with. Is that the case with the Beduoins in Negev?

Does that justify the settlers violence towards the Palestinians?

If so, then isn't the Palestinian violence towards the settlers justified.

 

[Coyote]

They have many illegal settlements in the Negev.

Are they legal residents of Negev? Or, illegal migrants stealing land in Occupied Territory?

When building a new village, just like when it comes to a Jewish settlement, it should be written and scatched in the Tabu. because if its not, then the state won't provide water and electricity services, because it's illegal.

Many 'towns' in the Negev are just like that. I lived in the Negev my entire life, I'm surrounded by those.

When they are out of services, they go to Jewish towns to steal. many times the steal from the Kibbutzim or well-based Jewish towns.

This problem should be dealt with, and soon.

Part of the problem is those illegal settlements are denied permits for infrastructure or existance whereas Jewish settlements almost always get the permits and, even if started illegally - once they are large enough, they get the infrastructure.

This double standard is very unjust.

 

[Lipush]

But they are legally allowed to be there - it is within Israel's borders and they are legal residents of Israel. In essence - it's like the homeless people putting up tents and shcaks in a park for temporary residencey. That is not the case with settlers.

But you see, the settlers are following the Israeli law.

I'm not talking abuot outposts, which are illegal even by Israeli law. That's kind of obvious.

I'm talking about recognized familiar towns like Ariel, Modi'in Illit...

The example you gave is inaccurate. There are towns for the Arab communities to settle in. They all are calling them to sit there and give them any service they need and want. social security and medical security are no issue (Free medical security for Israeli citizens).

They CHOOSE to have their outposts illegal. Just like some of the settlers. Nothing different.

And that's not temporal either. Some of those outposts accompany my childhood memories untill today.

The settlers are stealing land that is not Israel's to begin with. Is that the case with the Beduoins in Negev?

With some, that's the case exactly!

Does that justify the settlers violence towards the Palestinians?

No, and that was not the argument. The issue was when you said that there should be settlements named upon dead Palestinians. Which was discussed because I've said that the settlements are blessed because those incourage memory and life, and not stoning, burning, and killing.

So that goes against the violence theory IMO.

If so, then isn't the Palestinian violence towards the settlers justified.

Should I even try and take that question seriously.

 

[Lipush]

Are they legal residents of Negev? Or, illegal migrants stealing land in Occupied Territory?

When building a new village, just like when it comes to a Jewish settlement, it should be written and scatched in the Tabu. because if its not, then the state won't provide water and electricity services, because it's illegal.

Many 'towns' in the Negev are just like that. I lived in the Negev my entire life, I'm surrounded by those.

When they are out of services, they go to Jewish towns to steal. many times the steal from the Kibbutzim or well-based Jewish towns.

This problem should be dealt with, and soon.

Part of the problem is those illegal settlements are denied permits for infrastructure or existance whereas Jewish settlements almost always get the permits and, even if started illegally - once they are large enough, they get the infrastructure.

This double standard is very unjust.

Many outposts have been uprooted.

Ramat Migron, Atzmona, Beit Eviatar.... Just because you don't always hear of it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

We all remember the Amona pogrom. that was an unforgivable act by our state.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

But they are legally allowed to be there - it is within Israel's borders and they are legal residents of Israel. In essence - it's like the homeless people putting up tents and shcaks in a park for temporary residencey. That is not the case with settlers.

But you see, the settlers are following the Israeli law.

I'm not talking abuot outposts, which are illegal even by Israeli law. That's kind of obvious.

I'm talking about recognized familiar towns like Ariel, Modi'in Illit...

The example you gave is inaccurate. There are towns for the Arab communities to settle in. They all are calling them to sit there and give them any service they need and want. social security and medical security are no issue (Free medical security for Israeli citizens).

They CHOOSE to have their outposts illegal. Just like some of the settlers. Nothing different.

And that's not temporal either. Some of those outposts accompany my childhood memories untill today.

The settlers are stealing land that is not Israel's to begin with. Is that the case with the Beduoins in Negev?

With some, that's the case exactly!

Does that justify the settlers violence towards the Palestinians?

No, and that was not the argument. The issue was when you said that there should be settlements named upon dead Palestinians. Which was discussed because I've said that the settlements are blessed because those incourage memory and life, and not stoning, burning, and killing.

So that goes against the violence theory IMO.

If so, then isn't the Palestinian violence towards the settlers justified.

Should I even try and take that question seriously.

WHO cares if they, the illegal war criminal settlers, follow Israeli law? They violate intl law, exactly the same as the Nazi war criminals did! NO difference between them and the Nazi war criminals.They are just like them.

 

[irosie91]

Part of the problem is those illegal settlements are denied permits for infrastructure or existance whereas Jewish settlements almost always get the permits and, even if started illegally - once they are large enough, they get the infrastructure.

This double standard is very unjust.

How do you know Coyote? The situation is not all that
simple. You might be calling all jewish settlements in
the west bank ILLEGAL as does sherri. In fact some of
them are on lands which were historically purchased by
jews ----during mandate and ottoman timies---hebron is
certainly such a place. yet depending on SIDE----such
settlements are called illegal and the theft of Hebron
in 1929 called LEGAL. As to the negev----and arab
settlements -----that is a GYPSY ISSUE -----Even in
"arab countries" ----beduoin nomads are simply
MOVED AWAY----at the whim of the king. ----even in
England----gypsies were not granted OWNERSHIP and
electrical lines wherever they happened to set up camp
. same is true in the USA -----

HOWEVER I do agree with you that in Israel jews are
given preference over arabs ------and in several dozen
countries in the middle east----virtually all of them ---
muslims are given preference over jews----a fact which
in my mind does MITIGATE ---the preference jews have
in Israel

In INDONESIA---muslims are given preference over hindus

In CEYLON----TAMILS have it really tough

In NIGERIA ----christians are in peril---also in Egypt,
syria and increasingly so now----in Lebanon

In Kenya-----hindus and christians face a problem from
muslims

christians and hindus have problems in PAKISTAN
and jews should not set foot in that hell hole and
certainly not try to reclaim the pillaged synagogues
in Lahore

 

[MHunterB]

Oh, well - Goodwin's Law, sherri loses. Again.

 

[Coyote]

Nah, we know better.

The settlers throwing stones and burning fields. right?

So looking at the facts, I wonder why are the Palestinians truly angry?

Is it the 'game' that they don't like? or the facts that the settlers play on their level?

Or, maybe they're just angry at seeing their land and livelyhood being cut up and stolen acre by acre. I can't blame them.

You seem to be justifying settler violence against innocent civilians. Are you really?

The settler extremists are no better than the palestinian extremists. The only difference is one gets legitimized by the Israeli government and rewarded for their illegal activities.

Or, maybe they're just angry at seeing their land and livelyhood being cut up and stolen acre by acre. I can't blame them.

I can!

My grandmother's family had a ranch in central Israel in the first years of the 20st century. They lived in Israel ever since the 1800's. First Aliya.

When the 1929 riots began, their ranch was burned, robbed, and they were forced to leave to stay alive. And not only them.

That was before the "Nakba". No one, no one, of our family, had the chance to retrieve what has been lost. do you think they were not angry? of course they were.

How many of them went stabbing, burning, blowing up Palestinians because of it? NONE. my family hurt no one and killed no one, EVER.

And boy, were they pissed.

So, even though many of those Palestinians hurt and killed no one, the violence is justified? Two wrongs make a right?

So stop bringing up excuses for them. We're tired of it.!

I'm not making excuses. I'm' trying to apply the SAME standard to both sides.

You seem to be justifying settler violence against innocent civilians. Are you really?

I already said I didn't. And I don't.

But I believe the outrage involves hypocrisy to its core. Jews are stoned by Palestinians and attacked by Palestinians all the time. the stone throwing wasn't a Jewish thing,was not 10 or 15 years ago. Truth is, that is something they have learned. and not from Israelis.

I agree. Hypocrisy is at the core. And it is on both sides.

As the saying goes, when throwing stones, don't built your house with glass walls!

Yup. Do you apply that wisdom to your own?

The settler extremists are no better than the palestinian extremists. [/B]

I could agree with you on that one.

The only difference is one gets legitimized by the Israeli government and rewarded for their illegal activities.

What you see from here, you aint seeing from there!

At least 3 settlers have been arrested in the last 2 days for the violent riots. No one "give them prizes" for their behaviour.

I will recomend you, out of respect, because I believe many things you say are true, to check certain facts before saying them.

The settlers are getting a new illegal settlement. It may not be a "reward" for violent behavior but it's a reward of sorts. Three arrests for all that violence? That's it?

How many Palestinians get arrested for throwing stones?

Seriously - it's very unequal.

 

[Lipush]

But they are legally allowed to be there - it is within Israel's borders and they are legal residents of Israel. In essence - it's like the homeless people putting up tents and shcaks in a park for temporary residencey. That is not the case with settlers.

But you see, the settlers are following the Israeli law.

I'm not talking abuot outposts, which are illegal even by Israeli law. That's kind of obvious.

I'm talking about recognized familiar towns like Ariel, Modi'in Illit...

The example you gave is inaccurate. There are towns for the Arab communities to settle in. They all are calling them to sit there and give them any service they need and want. social security and medical security are no issue (Free medical security for Israeli citizens).

They CHOOSE to have their outposts illegal. Just like some of the settlers. Nothing different.

And that's not temporal either. Some of those outposts accompany my childhood memories untill today.

The settlers are stealing land that is not Israel's to begin with. Is that the case with the Beduoins in Negev?

With some, that's the case exactly!

Does that justify the settlers violence towards the Palestinians?

No, and that was not the argument. The issue was when you said that there should be settlements named upon dead Palestinians. Which was discussed because I've said that the settlements are blessed because those incourage memory and life, and not stoning, burning, and killing.

So that goes against the violence theory IMO.

If so, then isn't the Palestinian violence towards the settlers justified.

Should I even try and take that question seriously.

WHO cares if they, the illegal war criminal settlers, follow Israeli law? They violate intl law, exactly the same as the Nazi war criminals did! NO difference between them and the Nazi war criminals.They are just like them.

"They violate intl law"

Who fucking cares!!!!

It's not their job to keep the international law! It's the job of the government!

What is not understood in this statement!

Get a clue! you're the lawyer, aren't you!

 

[Lipush]

So, even though many of those Palestinians hurt and killed no one, the violence is justified? Two wrongs make a right?

Not what I said, not what I meant. You completely missed the point.

Point is, they cannot use the "occupation" excuse to do whatever they like!

I agree. Hypocrisy is at the core. And it is on both sides.

For the sake of honesty, I'll agree.

Yup. Do you apply that wisdom to your own?

Try to. Not an easy task.

The settlers are getting a new illegal settlement. It may not be a "reward" for violent behavior but it's a reward of sorts. Three arrests for all that violence? That's it?

For now. We don't know what the future holds.

 

[member]

". . .settler animals. . ."

"settlers-animals" ! .

 

[Coyote]

So, even though many of those Palestinians hurt and killed no one, the violence is justified? Two wrongs make a right?

Not what I said, not what I meant. You completely missed the point.

Point is, they cannot use the "occupation" excuse to do whatever they like!

I agree. Hypocrisy is at the core. And it is on both sides.

For the sake of honesty, I'll agree.

Yup. Do you apply that wisdom to your own?

Try to. Not an easy task.

The settlers are getting a new illegal settlement. It may not be a "reward" for violent behavior but it's a reward of sorts. Three arrests for all that violence? That's it?

For now. We don't know what the future holds.

Your posts are refreshing - and thanks for the honesty

I may disagree, but I respect your point of view and I think sometimes we agree more than not!

 

[irosie91]

[


WHO cares if they, the illegal war criminal settlers, follow Israeli law? They violate intl law, exactly the same as the Nazi war criminals did! NO difference between them and the Nazi
war criminals.They are just like them.

Sherri----your statements are flamboyant and absurd are you suggesting
that countries are not permitted to have LAWS ?

your fellow isa-respecters in Germany did adhere to the same laws to which
your fellow isa-respecters adhere in Saudi arabia and gaza and your heroine
UM-2boys boston adheres to day in her insistence that the
2boys bostoni are being framed by the ZIONIST CONTROLLED FBI

 

[Coyote]

How do you know Coyote? The situation is not all that
simple. You might be calling all jewish settlements in
the west bank ILLEGAL as does sherri. In fact some of
them are on lands which were historically purchased by
jews ----during mandate and ottoman timies---hebron is
certainly such a place. yet depending on SIDE----such
settlements are called illegal and the theft of Hebron
in 1929 called LEGAL. As to the negev----and arab
settlements -----that is a GYPSY ISSUE -----Even in
"arab countries" ----beduoin nomads are simply
MOVED AWAY----at the whim of the king. ----even in
England----gypsies were not granted OWNERSHIP and
electrical lines wherever they happened to set up camp
. same is true in the USA -----

HOWEVER I do agree with you that in Israel jews are
given preference over arabs ------and in several dozen
countries in the middle east----virtually all of them ---
muslims are given preference over jews----a fact which
in my mind does MITIGATE ---the preference jews have
in Israel

In INDONESIA---muslims are given preference over hindus

In CEYLON----TAMILS have it really tough

In NIGERIA ----christians are in peril---also in Egypt,
syria and increasingly so now----in Lebanon

In Kenya-----hindus and christians face a problem from
muslims

christians and hindus have problems in PAKISTAN
and jews should not set foot in that hell hole and
certainly not try to reclaim the pillaged synagogues
in Lahore

In Myanmar, Muslims are persecuted by the Buddhist majority

In Sri Lanka, Muslims are persecuted by the Buddhist majority and the Hindu Tamils.

In Ethiopia, Muslims face problems with the Christian majority.

In a lot of those countries too, the conflicts are more ethnic/tribal divisions than religious ones. Typically - it sucks to be a minority there.