Sheehan Arrested During Anti-War Protest

[archangel]

You are putting all kinds of words in my mouth.

First, you did not mention where I said race, so please let me know how my previous post lead you to believe that I was talking about race at all.

Second, I'm saying the military can provide you all sorts of assistance that will help you better yourself, assuming you make it out of the military. I never said I thought this was a bad policy. I presented both sides to the argument and you picked a side for me.

Third, most of your post has nothing but your own words to back it up. What's your reasoning for asserting that anyone who graduates highschool is automatically "just about middle class." You say "give or take a few points," what are these points?

Lastly, in regards to Vietnam and most certainly Korea, that was 30+ years ago. To somehow think those enlistment demographics have much relevancy in today's military demographics is a bit... unique. And throwing in the "white" part after middle class brings you back to the whole race thing, which I never brought up, and you still haven't addressed.

EDIT: And lets not forget that Vietnam had a draft... so demographics are even more worthless.

If you'd like to debate something, please refrain from misrepresenting me into that which you want to debate against.

I did not put words in your mouth...you my friend used the word disadvantaged not I..I just referred you to my post giving actual facts debating the myth of soldiers who are killed in combat are the poor and disadvantaged..as I pointed out this is a myth...whether they were drafted or enlisted on their own is a moot point...they fact remains that the middle class does in fact support the war effort dating back generations...as for your use of the word..."demographics" that is a given and known entity...as I also pointed out in my other thread...and as for having a HS diploma or above and a clean record...well I would say... this for the most part... represents the "Middle Class"

Now you are a strapping young man in your pics as posted and state educated also...so why are you not in the military?...you appear to be well above "Middle Class' so join the group!

 

[TheEnemyWithin]

I turned on the TV yesterday and saw the video of the two cops dragging Sheehan away by her arms and legs...laughed my ass off. Quite honestly that was the best b-day present I think I've ever got!! :rotflmao: :teeth:
Is she going to spend some time in the joint?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I did not put words in your mouth...you my friend used the word disadvantaged not I..I just referred you to my post giving actual facts debating the myth of soldiers who are killed in combat are the poor and disadvantaged..as I pointed out this is a myth...whether they were drafted or enlisted on their own is a moot point...they fact remains that the middle class does in fact support the war effort dating back generations...as for your use of the word..."demographics" that is a given and known entity...as I also pointed out in my other thread...and as for having a HS diploma or above and a clean record...well I would say... this for the most part... represents the "Middle Class"

Now you are a strapping young man in your pics as posted and state educated also...so why are you not in the military?...you appear to be well above "Middle Class' so join the group!

This is now 2 posts in a row where you dodged the race issue you originally brought up. Those are the words you put in my mouth.

To somehow claim draft vs. enlistment doesn't play a roll in who signs up is rediculous. When you're drafted, you don't "support" the war effort, you're "forced" to join up. Or you flee to Canada, if you have the ability.

...as for your use of the word..."demographics" that is a given and known entity...

what does this even mean?

...and as for having a HS diploma or above and a clean record...well I would say... this for the most part... represents the "Middle Class"...

and I would say that your inability to provide any kind of support for your claims besides "because I said so" renders your viewpoints rather limited.

...Now you are a strapping young man in your pics as posted and state educated also...so why are you not in the military?...you appear to be well above "Middle Class' so join the group!

You know nothing about me, who I am, or where I work, so stop pretending like you do.

 

[TheEnemyWithin]

My dad said Cindy is just pissed off because the hurricanes have taken all the wind out of her sails, and she just wants attention now. My mom said, "Oh, she probably got arrested because she was somewhere she wasn't supposed to be." (Yeah, planet Earth.)

:teeth:

 

[archangel]

This is now 2 posts in a row where you dodged the race issue you originally brought up. Those are the words you put in my mouth.

To somehow claim draft vs. enlistment doesn't play a roll in who signs up is rediculous. When you're drafted, you don't "support" the war effort, you're "forced" to join up. Or you flee to Canada, if you have the ability.

what does this even mean?

and I would say that your inability to provide any kind of support for your claims besides "because I said so" renders your viewpoints rather limited.

You know nothing about me, who I am, or where I work, so stop pretending like you do.

First...Race...was only referred to in the title of the thread I referred you to...the Gest was % of troops killed in combat...debating the myth of the so called disadvantaged...
Second...demographics as you used it...def:Merriam-Webster.the statistical study of human populations and especially their size and distribution...
Third....No I do not know you...I made my assessment on your posting of your pic and the impression that you gave that you may be a MD or university student...your own banter in here!
Fourth...so all soldiers who were drafted in the day...did not support the Korean and Vietnam war...well I was a soldier during the Vietnam era..I originally was drafted when I took a break from college...I joined(enlisted )rather than have the stigma of being drafted as well as a choice in what MOS I received... and I supported our involvment in this war... it's called being a patriot...as many others also did..and many who accepted the draft never said they did not support the war...this was the media of the day and celebrities of the day who attempted to put words in our mouths..(ie: Jane "Hanoi"Fonda)
Fifth...so now answer my question...Why are you not in the Military? are you a wannabee draft dodger who will flee to Canada...just curious as you are awfully defensive on the subject! :crutch:

 

[Abbey Normal]

...Meanwhile, I heard on the radio last night, Casey Sheehan still doesn't have a headstone.

Casey, a true hero, deserves so much better than this. It would be fitting if a Veterans group chipped in and bought him a stone.

 

[Bonnie]

yeah if everyone couldnt get over a death, we would all be in serious trouble.

I think it's more than that now for her. The liberals have given her so much importance as an anti-war poster mom that she can't see up or down anymore. They have stroked her ego and she's running with it. She wanted to be arrested because her new friends advised her to do it for publicity becasue they feel they were over shadowed by Hurricane Rita this past weekend. She's dumb like a fox now!!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

First...Race...was only referred to in the title of the thread I referred you to...the Gest was % of troops killed in combat...debating the myth of the so called disadvantaged...

I think I covered this disadvantaged minority myth!

Which is it?

...The report appears to support the contention that service in the military reserves is most attractive to young men living in low- or medium-income families in rural communities.

Of the 482 reservists who had died in Iraq and Afghanistan as of May 28, most were from low- or middle-income communities.

More than 80 percent were from rural and urban communities, whereas 18 percent were from the suburbs...

This is exactly my point! I wonder if you read the entire article? The disadvantaged myth? The race myth fine, but the article hardly dispels any "disadvantaged myth."

Second...demographics as you used it...def:Merriam-Webster.the statistical study of human populations and especially their size and distribution...

I still don't get whatever point you're trying to make. My point is, you can't compare the demographics or the armed forces during a time of voluntary service to a time of forced service.

Third....No I do not know you...I made my assessment on your posting of your pic and the impression that you gave that you may be a MD or university student...your own banter in here!

Make less assumptions. If you want to ask me about who I am, PM me. I don't need to advertise who I am and who I'm not to somehow strengthen or weaken my arguements, and you don't need to be making all sorts of assumptions about me either.

Fourth...so all soldiers who were drafted in the day...did not support the Korean and Vietnam war...well I was a soldier during the Vietnam era..I originally was drafted when I took a break from college...I joined(enlisted )rather than have the stigma of being drafted as well as a choice in what MOS I received... and I supported our involvment in this war... it's called being a patriot...as many others also did..and many who accepted the draft never said they did not support the war...this was the media of the day and celebrities of the day who attempted to put words in our mouths..(ie: Jane "Hanoi"Fonda)

Again with the putting words in my mouth. Did I say everyone who was drafted didn't support the war? My point was, when you're drafted, it doesn't matter if you support it or not; you have no choice. There were PLENTY of drafted Americans who supported the war, and PLENTY who did not, yet were honorable and served their duty. I know what a patriot is, and you most certainly fall under that category. Anyone who mistreated you because of your service is shameful. I have nor never will disparage a Vietnam, Korean, or any other military veteran. I never questioned your support, your patriotism, or your service to the country.

Fifth...so now answer my question...Why are you not in the Military? are you a wannabee draft dodger who will flee to Canada...just curious as you are awfully defensive on the subject! :crutch:

You can accuse me all you want, but my involvement with the military is immaterial to my involvement with this forum publicly. If you really want to know, you and anyone else are free to PM me to discuss my personal details, between the two of us.

 

[Johnney]

I think it's more than that now for her. The liberals have given her so much importance as an anti-war poster mom that she can't see up or down anymore. They have stroked her ego and she's running with it. She wanted to be arrested because her new friends advised her to do it for publicity becasue they feel they were over shadowed by Hurricane Rita this past weekend. She's dumb like a fox now!!

but where is she running? hello she dont even know. some told her to go in whatever direction and she did, doing nothing in particular other than making an ass of herself.

 

[Bonnie]

but where is she running? hello she dont even know. some told her to go in whatever direction and she did, doing nothing in particular other than making an ass of herself.

That's the point she's running like a chicken with no head, she was told to sit down near the Whitehouse knowing they had only a permit to march not sit. She knew she would be arrested and this would make more news and better photo ops as the martyred mom. She was smiling as she was getting cuffed, that tells you everything.
Evrything she does is staged for the anti-Bush cause.

 

[archangel]

Which is it?

This is exactly my point! I wonder if you read the entire article? The disadvantaged myth? The race myth fine, but the article hardly dispels any "disadvantaged myth."

I still don't get whatever point you're trying to make. My point is, you can't compare the demographics or the armed forces during a time of voluntary service to a time of forced service.

Make less assumptions. If you want to ask me about who I am, PM me. I don't need to advertise who I am and who I'm not to somehow strengthen or weaken my arguements, and you don't need to be making all sorts of assumptions about me either.

Again with the putting words in my mouth. Did I say everyone who was drafted didn't support the war? My point was, when you're drafted, it doesn't matter if you support it or not; you have no choice. There were PLENTY of drafted Americans who supported the war, and PLENTY who did not, yet were honorable and served their duty. I know what a patriot is, and you most certainly fall under that category. Anyone who mistreated you because of your service is shameful. I have nor never will disparage a Vietnam, Korean, or any other military veteran. I never questioned your support, your patriotism, or your service to the country.

You can accuse me all you want, but my involvement with the military is immaterial to my involvement with this forum publicly. If you really want to know, you and anyone else are free to PM me to discuss my personal details, between the two of us.

I did post it...and your quoting the last paragraph about the 400+ reservists only strengthened my assertion...it did not address the 1300+ regulars...lower and middle class urban/rural/suburban et al demography in your opinion does not constitute "Middle Class"...what school do you attend again?

And I am not accusing you of anything...I gave my opinion and attached a factual study about the issue and you gave only your opinion and assertion that I was being unfair to you...go figure...and no I do not need to have your personal history...you could place a little more in general about yourself in the profile section for public view if you wish...others do! Background on a person gives one a little more to go on as to the credibility of the person being debated...a combination of common sense,education,age,work experience and life experience makes the whole person and forms ones opinions based on this criteria!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I did post it...and your quoting the last paragraph about the 400+ reservists only strengthened my assertion...it did not address the 1300+ regulars...lower and middle class urban demography in your opinion does not constitute "Middle Class"...what school do you attend again?

And I am not accusing you of anything...I gave my opinion and attached a factual study about the issue and you gave only your opinion and assertion that I was being unfair to you...go figure...and no I do not need to have your personal history...you could place a little more in general about yourself in the profile section for public view if you wish...others do! Background on a person gives one a little more to go on as to the credibility of the person being debated...a combination of common sense,education,age,work experience and life experience makes the whole person and forms ones opinions based on this criteria!

That article does absolutely nothing to dispute this "disadvantaged myth" that you claim to exist. It is an article that disproves any race myth that was there, and it does the job.

No, "lower" class doesn't constitute "middle" class. "Middle" class constitutes "middle" class. The article only says that the reserves is most appealing to middle to lower class males in rural areas. It says nothing about active forces. You're correct on that. How that somehow proves your point or anything about the active forces is beyond me. You haven't, in my opinion, disproven any disadvantaged myth.

You were not accusing me of being a draft dodger? It certainly appeared that way. If you weren't, then fine, my mistake.

I said you didn't back up your opinion about busting the disadvantaged myth, because I didn't think you had, and I still don't think you have. That's something that you could prove through statistics on demographics of the enlisted service.

My opinion that you were being unfair to me can't be backed up by statistics. I don't really see how the two compare. Ok, well, I guess I can say 100% of me felt you weren't being fair, but it's a worthless stat.

You're right, I could post more about myself in my profile. I intentionally do not. I am more than willing to discuss my personal specifics in private. If it would help you for me to initiate such a discussion, then that could be arranged. But it's really quite simple for you, I'll answer whatever you want to know. All you have to do is type the specific question into a PM and send it. If you don't really wish to go into that, then stop making assumptions about who I am. If you're not willing to find out who I am before making your assertions, that's hardly fair. All you're doing is trying to bait it out of me. Does this seem unreasonable to anyone else?

 

[Annie]

That article does absolutely nothing to dispute this "disadvantaged myth" that you claim to exist. It is an article that disproves any race myth that was there, and it does the job.

No, "lower" class doesn't constitute "middle" class. "Middle" class constitutes "middle" class. The article only says that the reserves is most appealing to middle to lower class males in rural areas. It says nothing about active forces. You're correct on that. How that somehow proves your point or anything about the active forces is beyond me. You haven't, in my opinion, disproven any disadvantaged myth.

You were not accusing me of being a draft dodger? It certainly appeared that way. If you weren't, then fine, my mistake.

I said you didn't back up your opinion about busting the disadvantaged myth, because I didn't think you had, and I still don't think you have. That's something that you could prove through statistics on demographics of the enlisted service.

My opinion that you were being unfair to me can't be backed up by statistics. I don't really see how the two compare. Ok, well, I guess I can say 100% of me felt you weren't being fair, but it's a worthless stat.

You're right, I could post more about myself in my profile. I intentionally do not. I am more than willing to discuss my personal specifics in private. If it would help you for me to initiate such a discussion, then that could be arranged. But it's really quite simple for you, I'll answer whatever you want to know. All you have to do is type the specific question into a PM and send it. If you don't really wish to go into that, then stop making assumptions about who I am. If you're not willing to find out who I am before making your assertions, that's hardly fair. All you're doing is trying to bait it out of me. Does this seem unreasonable to anyone else?

You were not accusing me of being a draft dodger? It certainly appeared that way. If you weren't, then fine, my mistake.

How could he, there is no draft?

On the rest, without info, we are left to inferences from your posts, you'll have to live with that.

 

[archangel]

That article does absolutely nothing to dispute this "disadvantaged myth" that you claim to exist. It is an article that disproves any race myth that was there, and it does the job.

No, "lower" class doesn't constitute "middle" class. "Middle" class constitutes "middle" class. The article only says that the reserves is most appealing to middle to lower class males in rural areas. It says nothing about active forces. You're correct on that. How that somehow proves your point or anything about the active forces is beyond me. You haven't, in my opinion, disproven any disadvantaged myth.

You were not accusing me of being a draft dodger? It certainly appeared that way. If you weren't, then fine, my mistake.

I said you didn't back up your opinion about busting the disadvantaged myth, because I didn't think you had, and I still don't think you have. That's something that you could prove through statistics on demographics of the enlisted service.

My opinion that you were being unfair to me can't be backed up by statistics. I don't really see how the two compare. Ok, well, I guess I can say 100% of me felt you weren't being fair, but it's a worthless stat.

You're right, I could post more about myself in my profile. I intentionally do not. I am more than willing to discuss my personal specifics in private. If it would help you for me to initiate such a discussion, then that could be arranged. But it's really quite simple for you, I'll answer whatever you want to know. All you have to do is type the specific question into a PM and send it. If you don't really wish to go into that, then stop making assumptions about who I am. If you're not willing to find out who I am before making your assertions, that's hardly fair. All you're doing is trying to bait it out of me. Does this seem unreasonable to anyone else?

for liberal mantra...you dodge and rephrase the questions posted to you then say you are being unfairly treated...you my friend(used loosley) are the one who brought up the draft dodging/going to Canada issue...I just played on it.

You also tried your best to debuke the "Middle Class" assertion by saying that "lower to Middle class" were not "Middle Class" since the word "Middle Class" was connected to "Lower"... it means lower Middle Class...Middle Class encompases "Lower" "Middle" and "Upper" Then we have the "Well Off" and " Extremely Wealthy" then we can then go down to the poor and disadvantaged class which you seem to want to attach to the "Middle Class"

Now which part of this diatribe do you not understand...please do not rephrase my statements to suit your need!

 

[Johnney]

spilly jr?

 

[Annie]

spilly jr?

Looks like.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

for liberal mantra...you dodge and rephrase the questions posted to you then say you are being unfairly treated...you my friend(used loosley) are the one who brought up the draft dodging going to Canada issue...I just played on it.

You also tried your best to debuke the "Middle Class" assertion by saying that "lower to Middle class were not "Middle Class" since the word "Middle Class" was connected to "Lower" it means lower Middle Class...Middle Class encompases "Lower" "Middle" and "Upper" Then we have the "Well Off" and " Extremely Wealthy" then we can then go down to the poor and disadvantaged class which you seem to want to attach to the "Middle Class"

Now which part of this diatribe do you not understand...please do not rephrase my statements to suit your need!

I said people dodged the draft by going to Canada during the 70's. You asked if I was one of them. If that's playing off of me, I guess I don't see it that way.

If it meant lower middle class, wouldn't they have said lower middle class? I disagree with you thinking that lower to middle class means lower middle class. I think it means Lower class and Middle class. Difference of opinion.

I always referred to things as lower class, middle class, and upper class. It makes sense to me. Do you see things as more than just lower class, middle class, and upper class?

I don't understand where I rephrased your statements. Could you show me? Clearly I don't see it.

And to claim that I'm somehow dodging questions, when you still haven't asserted how that article proves anything about the class of the active enlisted, well, I guess we at least think the other is doing the same thing.

 

[Johnney]

I said people dodged the draft by going to Canada during the 70's. You asked if I was one of them. If that's playing off of me, I guess I don't see it that way.

If it meant lower middle class, wouldn't they have said lower middle class? I disagree with you thinking that lower to middle class means lower middle class. I think it means Lower class and Middle class. Difference of opinion.

I always referred to things as lower class, middle class, and upper class. It makes sense to me. Do you see things as more than just lower class, middle class, and upper class?

I don't understand where I rephrased your statements. Could you show me? Clearly I don't see it.

And to claim that I'm somehow dodging questions, when you still haven't asserted how that article proves anything about the class of the active enlisted, well, I guess we at least think the other is doing the same thing.

he did ask you a question about military and you answered with the typical teenaged response... you dont know me.
maybe you two should pm each other your histories then you can both know each other.

 

[archangel]

I said people dodged the draft by going to Canada during the 70's. You asked if I was one of them. If that's playing off of me, I guess I don't see it that way.

If it meant lower middle class, wouldn't they have said lower middle class? I disagree with you thinking that lower to middle class means lower middle class. I think it means Lower class and Middle class. Difference of opinion.

I always referred to things as lower class, middle class, and upper class. It makes sense to me. Do you see things as more than just lower class, middle class, and upper class?

I don't understand where I rephrased your statements. Could you show me? Clearly I don't see it.

And to claim that I'm somehow dodging questions, when you still haven't asserted how that article proves anything about the class of the active enlisted, well, I guess we at least think the other is doing the same thing.

I'm just going to toss in the towell on this one...you just want to go round and round...just like a "Merry go round" ask Johnny about your rephrasing of questions..he is much more blunt than I...or ask Kathianne...she is more eloquent and has experience grading papers..."Lower-Middle-and Upper...so be it if it works for you...Me I prefer the actual classes as defined...Middle divided into lower/middle/upper and then the poor/disadvantaged and the well off and extremely wealthy...kinda sorta by the amount of income one has...geez!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Looks like.

Can I get in on the joke?